Sister Susan Marie: St Francis is a good model for our increasingly violent world
Aug 24 2014, 7:19 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Several years ago the Visitation Srs has a motto- a gentle presence in a violent world
Sister Susan Marie: But St Francis gentleness was not weakness, no, we speak of it as a gentle strength
Ca I find myself wanting to oppose the injustice, and I am not always so gentle either. I get lost on the border between surrender and submission
Daw: I agree Sr…for another seems more justified but maybe not the best way
M
Daw: I agree Sr…for another seems more justified but maybe not the best way
de Sales would go on calmly for all of that
Sister Susan Marie: I myself however do not always respond gently to animosity when it is a case of justice, for another person
Aug 24 2014, 7:25 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Someone being mistreated for ex, that is hard to take calmly
Sister Susan Marie: St FRancis had to hold in his anger- he was a naturally angry person it is said
Daw: but esp if that other is not able to defend themselves
Sister Susan Marie: He worked so hard to be controlled
Sister Susan Marie: I agree defenselessness needs to be defended!
Ca: because there are times when anger is the correct emotion, but it’s how we use the anger that is the issue?
Sister Susan Marie: Ah yes like Jesus’ just anger?
Ca: Yes, like Jesus being angry at the money changers and the Pharisees, etc
Sister Susan Marie: He was not gentle in his expression there was He?
CaI get advise to meditate on those scenes AL
T
Aug 24 2014, 7:30 PM
Da: not at all. not gentle but still controlled in some way
Ca: No, He was not gentle there at all, but rather blunt. I wonder how many times He spoke to them quietly and they didn’t listen before the explosion came
Sister Susan Marie: That’s an insight!
Da: had not considered that Carol. I thought always it was the situation itself not a build up…but yes maybe both!
Ca: I have a writer’s imagination. I wonder a lot of strange things
Sister Susan Marie: I think we need to call on the Holy Spirit immediately when we feel anger rising
Ca I pray that He speaks through me, but I know I don’t always hear clearly and still sin
Daw: oh if I could just remember this…that is how quick anger can come upon. makes me wonder if it has been simmering for awhile
Sister Susan Marie: But the case is one of clear “dislike” on the part of someone and it seems unjust I do not have skill to make replies quickly, I get frustrtaed and then anger builds
Sister Susan Marie: Community life is a real challenge esp for those still in process of healing from life’s hurts
Sister Susan Marie: And it affects the whole group- so we need to pray for healing alot
Aug 24 2014, 7:35 PM
Car I think I understand what you are saying–I’m not a master verbal communicator,I write. You can edit written communication, but not oral, unfortunately
Ca: And everyone is still in process, though I was told that people who have already been through formation have already changed as much as they ever will. Do you think that’s true?
it was in terms of community life–this person has already been formed, so they can’t adjust or expand to someone new. The newcomer must change and adapt to everyone already there.
Sister Susan Marie: It is a dance between us all
I think we need to call on the Holy Spirit immediately when we feel anger rising within
Carn: I pray that He speaks through me, but I know I don’t always hear clearly and still sin
Car Yes, you must be rooted in Christ or it would be impossible
Jud: Yes and no. Sometimes there is animosity among members of a community. Or sometimes one does not feel as if one fits in.
Sister Susan Marie: True- why is that do you think?
Jud: It could be that the person is being mis-conceived by others. It could be that the person is wearing a mask. Or perhaps one does not really fit in.
Sister Susan Marie: You need to find the community where you feel you fit
Aug 24 2014, 7:49 PM
Sister Susan Marie: It is like an instinct
Ca: I wonder if it is not a lot of misperception. In some places I visited I heard many people say that they were not listened to, and when conversations were repeated that they were misrepresented.
Aug 24 2014, 7:50 PM
Jud: I have indeed found that among the Cooperator Salesians of Don Bosco.
Daw: I am wondering about the “building a stockpile of gentleness and mildness” St Francis speaks of. how do we do this?
Jud: I have a friend who left a congregation because she felt that there were different standards of behavior for different member.
Carn: What happened to her, Judy? and I’m wondering about Dawn’s question too
Jud: I think that the only way to build such a stockpile is to constantly practice gentleness and mildness in our daily lives. We need to respond to situations not with rancor, but with understanding, deference and compassion.
Jud: My friend has left the Church.
Aug 24 2014, 7:55 PM
Sister Susan Marie: I think a stockpile is from practicing many acts of patience and gentleness
Car: Oh, that’s terrible news, Jud
Jud: We also need to try to enter into the feelings of the other person or persons.
Aug 24 2014, 7:56 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Very definitely!
Car: So, stockpiling gentleness is like surrender? it means that you don’t shrug off a miscommunication but clarify your position without being angry about it?
Sister Susan Marie: That’s a good way of describing that action- except surrender may not always be the response but a yielding
Jud: That sounds like a positive approach.
Daw: St Francis says ( in the guide) when we are in a tranquil state of mind to stockpile…does he mean prayer?
Jud: What’s that old saying–you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar!
Aug 24 2014, 7:58 PM
Sister Susan Marie: That’s St Francis de Sales! Hi Sr M Roberta!
Mary Roberta Viano: So yielding means surrender with more dignity?
Aug 24 2014, 8:00 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: or surrender to God and yielding to my neighbors?
Aug 24 2014, 8:00 PM
Sister Susan Marie: I think of surrender either as something we do with God, or else with a person it is more a negative
Aug 24 2014, 8:00 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Yes that’s it Sister!
Aug 24 2014, 8:00 PM
Jud: I think surrender has a connotation of giving up.
Aug 24 2014, 8:00 PM
Daw yes!
: but continually surrender to God’s will
: while yielding in love to another?
Aug 24 2014, 8:02 PM
Ca: So. this might sound silly, but what happens if most practice surrender, with mistakes now and again, but one person just never surrenders/yields to anyone else?
Sister Susan Marie: Good clarification
Sister Susan Marie: Yes that’s where it becomes difficult- what did the saints do?
Sister Susan Marie: Love thy enemies answers that situation, perhaps
Aug 24 2014, 8:04 PM
Jud: We so often speak of surrendering to God’s will. St. Alphonsus speaks of being in conformity or uniformity with God’s will. Conformity means that we accept what is happening as God’s will. Uniformity is that we make God’s will our will. I believe that we must strive for uniformity.
Aug 24 2014, 8:04 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Some saints (Mother Teresa, St. Jerome) were not very yielding at all – from their biographies.
Sister Susan Marie: So we can’t learn from them! Strong personalities
Aug 24 2014, 8:06 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: You never yield to evil, nor do you yield when it’s a question of helping someone who is in need.
Aug 24 2014, 8:06 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Yes total union with God in uniformity?
Aug 24 2014, 8:06 PM
Car: Perhaps the strong willed saints couldn’t surrender because then they would not have fulfilled their missions?
Mary Roberta Viano: True
Car Perhaps the strong willed saints couldn’t surrender because then they would not have fulfilled their missions?
Mary Roberta Viano: True
Aug 24 2014, 8:06 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: and that’s how they became saints
Aug 24 2014, 8:07 PM
Ca because sometimes we are told to surrender to everything bad that happens as being God’s will too, though God never asks people to hurt one another
Aug 24 2014, 8:08 PM
Sister Susan Marie: In St Francis de Sales case, he surrendered his opinion to an Archbishop and the Visitation became cloistered- its all in the will of God
Jud: Would the Carmelites ever have been reformed if not for Teresa’s persistence! She was surely in uniformity with God’s will rather than with those who wanted to thwart her efforts.
Aug 24 2014, 8:08 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: As long as we’re always striving to do the next loving thing, I think we’ll be OK with God.
Aug 24 2014, 8:09 PM
Car: Those are both examples of how uniformity to God’s will took different forms. St Francis yielded,but St Teresa could not
Jud: It occurs to me that one can be strong and persistent in a gentle manner rather than in a threatening or critical one.
Sister Susan Marie: That was St Francis way I believe
Mary Roberta Viano: Right. As SFdS says,”How delightful is the law of their (the saints’) gentleness, for they are without gall or bitterness.” (letter of direction)
Mary Roberta Viano: “guided by the sweetest laws of disinterested love” SFdS
Aug 24 2014, 8:14 PM
Daw: Sr Mary….these are beautiful guiding words from St Francis!
Jud St. John Bosco used reason, religion and kindness in dealing with the boys who flocked to his oratories. And they were mainly street kids and they responded to his methods. He once took a group of imprisoned young fellows on an outing and not one of them “escaped” because of his manner of treating them.We all need to use reason, our faith and loving kindness in our dealings with others.
Ca: yield with compassion, guide with compassion
Mary Roberta Viano: It seems to go back to the Saint’s ideas on simplicity: “Our soul is simple when in all we do or desire we have one aim: to acquire the love of God.” (Conference XII)
Jud: Sometimes we need to take more time to think before we respond or react to something,
Sister Susan Marie: and true humility plays an important role too
CaAnother person told me that humility = truth. How can you tell if you are speaking your own version of the truth or God’s when you are trying to help someone?
Aug 24 2014, 8:18 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Yes. He says: “Humility and charity are the dominant chords; all the other virtues are overtones of these.” (letter to St.Jane)
Aug 24 2014, 8:18 PM
Sister Susan Marie: The anger builds up our pride somehow and we have to direct our wills to that
Aug 24 2014, 8:18 PM
Sister Susan Marie: humility
Sister Susan Marie: Yes charity despite our feelings of the moment
Aug 24 2014, 8:19 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: humble before God, gentle with everyone we meet
Jud: Car, one way is to see that your advice can be supported by Scripture.
Aug 24 2014, 8:20 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: and by the Church’s Magisteriu
:21 PM
Car: okay, that makes sense. I just had a couple of situations where I tried to use speaking to your brother in private if he has done something to hurt you. It did not go well.
I do need to study more and more, pray more, work more, surrender more
Jud Humility seems to be the cloak which must cover all of our thoughts, words and actions. Not an easy thing but something that we need to strive for.
Mary Roberta Viano: What I too often mistakenly do is speak and stick around to see the effect what I’ve said has.
Da and to pray for the grace to discern false humility and true humility….’
Car: Sister Mary, that’s what I’m saying!
Daw: Sr Mary…that is being truthful with ones self!
Mary Roberta Viano: SFdS says real humility is “ingenuous and joyous.”
Aug 24 2014, 8:26 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: So my love for the person I’m talking to has to ALWAYS be the most evident thin
Ca: I’m listening! though that’s hard to discern in retrospect
Jud: But it always all too easy to deceive ourselves. No wonder St. Paul speaks about his chagrin about doing what he does not want to do, and not doing what he wants to do. I believe that he says something akin to “O, woe is me!” And me too!
Mary Roberta Viano: and that I’m happy to be with whomever – however angry and frustrated they make me!
Sister Susan Marie: You have given me a lot to think about Sister, thank you!!!!
Mary Roberta Viano: It’s a help to appeal to the other’s Guardian Angel!
Jud: This has been a very heavy discussion. Indeed we all have a lot to think about.
Mary Roberta Viano: So we can all think about things as we sleep. A friend told me she does her best thinking when she’s asleep!
Aug 24 2014, 8:30 PM
Jud Let us call upon the Holy Spirit to enlighten us in our efforts.
Aug 24 2014, 8:30 PM
Ca: Sister Mary, I have tried that too! Sometimes it works, sometimes the person doesn’t want to listen to their angel or doesn’t even believe in him
Sister Susan Marie: Yes and continue to pray for each other
Jud Good night everyone!
Aug 24 2014, 8:31 PM
Car Because when we are asleep, Jesus works in our subconcious
Aug 24 2014, 8:31 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: True, Carol Ann, but at least we know we’ve enlisted God’s help!