• How do you think marriage and religious life are similar? How different?• St. Francis de Sales speaks about the mutual love of turtle doves. How is married love different than the the “love” that animals share?• St. Francis quotes Ephesians 5:25, “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church.” What does this love look like?• The Catechism #1617 says, “Christian marriage in its turn becomes an efficacious sign, the sacrament of the covenant of Christ and the
and the Church.” How do you think marriage is a reflection of Christ’s love for the Church?
• From the same CCC #1617, it also reads, “The entire Christian life bears the mark of the spousal love of Christ and the Church.” How does one who is not married (religious or lay) do this
Sister Susan Marie: Have you been following reports on this Synod
Car: I’ve read some of them, but not in great detail. The general media seems to be very confused about who is saying what
Sister Susan Marie: I’m not sure we are getting alot of detail. Secular reports always seem slanted
Oct 12 2014, 7:19 PM
Sister Susan Marie: But I am hoping for insights from folks who are married and others who live family now. My experience id from decades ago- family life that is when things were simpler esp for working class folks like my family
Car: Yes, in this case it’s slanted toward “What is Pope Francis going to change in Church teaching?” little realizing he’s not going to change anything fundamental.
I remember simpler times too. Maybe our parents just hid their stresses
The teaching on divorced & separated seems to be generating a lot of confusion.
Sister Susan Marie: CCC #1617, it also reads, “The entire Christian life bears the mark of the spousal love of Christ and the Church.” How does one who is not married (religious or lay) do this 32 PM
Ca: It all seems to come down to someone trying to judge what is another person’s heart regarding the marriage, to determine its sacramentality, but how can we truly see another’s heart?
Daw: this is the question…how does one
Sister Susan Marie: That is deep yet it reflects what St paul said. But realistically is anyone thinking of that as they fall in love or prepare for marriage?
Car: no! I’m guessing they’re thinking of the bliss of their lives together and not so much about the comingno! I’m guessing they’re thinking of the bliss of their lives together and not so much about the coming trials
Ali: I think love in marriage grows with age
t: ahhh Car i guess we could equate this with our faith too
Car: yes, we can! This idea of marriage works for our personal relationship with Christ too.
Do we enter into it out of love, or do we treat Him like Santa?
Daw: thank you for comment Carol…marriage and with Christ
I know sisters take this vow, but as lay person
Oct 12 2014, 7:41 PM
Alit: and do we give up when times get hard
Sister Susan Marie: Christ really is the spouse of every soul!
Daw: how could we do this?
Ca: It is a different type of a relationship though for a lay person–it feels different than the relationship in the monastery
Guest512 (guest): Were you in a monastery, Car?
Sister Susan Marie: You have alot to offer on this Carol, please continue if possible!
Daw: Sr Susan, I found and have been reading blog The Cloistered Heart you mentioned to someone. Its beautiful
Sister Susan Marie: Yes I think so too Dawand she is a married woman
Daw: yes Car…want to hear
Guest161 (guest): I love that Sister Christ should be the spouse of every soul Marriages would be alot better if both spouses felt that way
Ca: Yes, I was well into a postulancy before I realized I was in the wrong community. There I was able to focus on Christ more-it was quieter-while out here there is far more that you MUST do that can pull you away
I have loved reading the Cloistered Heart blog too
Sister Susan Marie: When one is advised to make Christ the center of one’s marriage it may seem a bit distant but if you each make Him the primary spiritual Spouse then perhaps that intimacy will spill over into the natural so to speak
Oct 12 2014, 7:45 PM
Guest512 (guest): I can appreciate that, Ca. One thing that seems to me to draw me to monastery is that there is a time for prayer, a time for work, a time to be together.
Sister Susan Marie: St Francis was direct: Would to God that His Dear Son were bidden to all weddings as to that of Cana! Truly then the wine of consolation and blessing would never be lacking; for if these are often so wanting, it is because too frequently now men summon Adonis instead of our Lord, and Venus rather than Our Lady. He who desires that the young of his flock should be like Jacob’s, fair and ring-straked, must set fair objects before their eyes; and he who would find a blessing in his marriage, must ponder the ho
Car: yes, the community aspect is so important. I was living a very similar life as a single, but unconsecrated, but it’s not the same. I’m lonely for community even with roommates
Oct 12 2014, 7:47 PM
Sister Susan Marie: must ponder the holiness and dignity of this Sacrament, instead of which too often weddings become a season of mere feasting and disorder.
Car: Maybe that’s why so many marriages are failing-despite so much premarriage work, the focus is on what people do, not what Christ does
Sister Susan Marie: The religious community has special grace that a roommate situation does not, and probably vice versa
Interesting insight!
Da: very beautiful counsel from St Francis
and true! ” a mere feasting and disorder”
Oct 12 2014, 7:50 PM
Sister Susan Marie: We used to call it “holy Matrimony” Who uses that now? Language does make a difference, even as the Synod is saying
Car: though, as we were reminded in today’s Gospel, weddings were/are the event of the year
Sister Susan Marie: holy alone would make people stop and think
A state so pervasive and surrounded by custom as marriage is needs a distinction to help keep it in the spiritual
Daw: so the term Holy Matrimony is the distinction?
Sister Susan Marie: It could be
Sister Susan Marie: I think it was, anyway it distinguishes the sacramental from the civil
Guest512 (guest): Yes, and what is becoming of marriage? Applying the word to long term homosexual relationships is confusing the matter even moreM
Guest161 (guest): unfortunately it seems some people dont appreciate the holiness of the sacraments anymore not only marriage but the others as well PM
Ali: we are living in A Godless world
Oct 12 2014, 7:57 PM
Car: adults are confused too, and so the children are growing up to think marriage is only a civil unon of any type–and one that need only be temporary
Oct 12 2014, 7:57 PM
Guest512 (guest): When I was a kid my father, to discourage me from becoming a nun gave me a booklet entitled “married saints.
Sister Susan Marie: Saint Gregory Nazianzen says that in his time married people were wont to celebrate the anniversary of their wedding, and it is a custom I should greatly approve, provided it were not a merely secular celebration; but if husbands and wives would go on that day to Confession and Communion, and commend their married life specially to God, renewing their resolution to promote mutual good by increased love and faithfulness, and thus take breath, so to say, and gather new vigor from the Lord to go on steadfastly
Sister Susan Marie: That’s from St Francis, above
Guest512 (guest): He had not looked carefully at it; all the women were widows who founded religious communities.
Mary Roberta Viano: Hello!
Guest512 (guest): They had grown in holiness even through difficult marriages59 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: I almost think it might be good to return to arranged marriages – as a remedial thing00 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: because we need to learn the discipline of living peacefully with whomever, with each other!
Oct 12 2014, 8:00 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Even chaperoned dating!
Ali: like the Duggar family!
Oct 12 2014, 8:01 PM
Car: I can see some advantages to chaperoned dating!
Guest512 (guest): Whew! That might be good IF the parents were wise in their choices. I knew an Indian doctor, female, who had an arranged marriage, and it seemed to be pretty good02 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: In the Intro SFdS says: “Mutual forbearance with each other must be so great the both spouses will never be angry with each other at the same time…” Wow, great ideal!
Oct 12 2014, 8:02 PM
Ali: my great grandmother was in an arranged marriage as she arrived from Poland. good marriage- 14 kids
Mary Roberta Viano: We’ve now want the perfect spouse and the perfect marriage and won’t settle for anything less.
Oct 12 2014, 8:03 PM
Guest512 (guest): Both individuals need to be of good charachter.
Alict: well at least we know in our relationship with Jesus, He wont be the angry one!
Guest512 (guest): Jesus can be angry, too. Remember what he did in the temple — the money changers.
Mary Roberta Viano: No relationship, either marriage or friendship, will succeed if Our Lord isn’t in the center.
Ca: You’re right there Sister, and no one seems to realize that we are not already perfect when we enter marriage, and even after many years, we’re still not. But we are “entitled” to toe fairy tale
Daw:so Sisters, is it similar in a community, all spouses of Christ….who would not be angry of course, but among each other
Mary Roberta Viano: definitely the same applies to communities of sisters or brothers
Guest512 (guest): toe fairy tale
Daw: Sr Mary…this is precisely the truth. …”for without Me, you can do nothing…” John 15
2014, 8:06 PM
Car: by fairy tale I mean all the happily ever after, no more trials stories we all grew up with
Guest512 (guest): I think Christ MUST be at the center of a Christian marriage. But what about Jews? And Muslims, e.g.?
Sister Susan Marie: Yes we were fed lots of unreal stories about life!
Mary Roberta Viano: SFdS says an interesting thing about the rings exchanged: that seals were engraved on rings exchanged, which meant the other’s heart was being sealed as belonging to the spouse.Guest512
Alic: i like the seal idea
Oct 12 2014, 8:08 PM
Guest512 (guest): Car, I see, you mean those stories in which they marry and live “happily ever after.
Mary Roberta Viano: Fidelity seems like a dirty word these days.
Alic: Do sisters have a seal on their rings?
Sister Susan Marie: However one worships God, He should be at the center, no?
Sister Susan Marie: Our order does not have rings
Ali: ahh i see
Am: Marriage as a sacrament is different from secular marriages; it’s a covenant with God
Mary Roberta Viano: Right – a promise exchanged between the spouses before God
Am: I had one nephew married in a barn this year; another in a park. Somehow it’s definitely not the same
Mary Roberta Viano: so Christ is the seal on their hearts
Am: I had one nephew married in a barn this year; another in a park. Somehow it’s definitely not the same
Mary Roberta Viano: so Christ is the seal on their hearts
Mary Roberta Viano: I love in the Intro where SFdS calls marriage the “nursery of Christianity”
Oct 12 2014, 8:12 PM
Guest512 (guest): Song of Solomon 8:6 Set me like a seal on your heart.
Car: Outdoor weddings are beautiful, but can they have at least Communion services? I remember long ago a college friend married in her backyard and the priest set up a portable altar for Mass
Mary Roberta Viano: because “it’s supposed to supply the earth with faithful souls to complete the number of the elect in heaven”
Am: I like that, Guest 512
Guest512 (guest): Mary Roberta, I like that too. It is a nursery not only for the children, but for the couple who learn holiness, ideally, through their love for one another
Mary Roberta Viano: Holy Father says: “It’s a great honor to you who are married that God…causes you to cooperate with Him” in multiplying souls to bless and praise Him.
Am: When you see a couple married for many years in a Catholic marriage, it’s so very beautiful
Mary Roberta Viano: yes, you can’t even imagine all their relationship has gone thru
Am: But when you watch them closely, they really are one, they know each other so well, like a ballet in their actions
Mary Roberta Viano: Marriages before the Tabernacle fulfill SFdS’s wish: “Would to God that His beloved Son were invited to all marriage as He was to that of Cana
Sister Susan Marie: That’s great Sister- marriage before the tabernacle!
Sister Susan Marie: The Real presence- why not be married before HIM?
Oct 12 2014, 8:19 PM
Daw: that is beautiful..SFds
Guest512 (guest): Unfortunately, there are some — usually men — who manipulate there spouses into bad behavior not in their
Mary Roberta Viano: I also like that he points out: “If you loved each other in and for God, it would not bother you – absent or present, sickness or health, your affeciton would be the same. 8:21 PM
Car: and so flaws that might otherwise irritate us can become endearing
Am: Does anyone know the success rate of marriages in a Catholic Church versus a secular wedding?
Mary Roberta Viano: right and he says, too, that “the perfection of friendship or marriage presupposes and assurance of the virtue (or desire for virtue) of those whome we love
Ali: I would think it would be high Amy for a catholic marriage
Am I would think so, too, and the value of the pre-Cana meetings with a priest are pretty high
Oct 12 2014, 8:23 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: definitely high-er
Guest512 (guest): My pastor posted a funny photo captioned “just one more reason I will not be performing any marriages outside of church” — bride winds up accidentally in the swimming pool
Mary Roberta Viano: oops!
Daw: my mother father married in St Patricks Catheral texas and it did not last. I hope they were the minority
SFdS writes lots on marriage in the Intro.: “It is God who with His invisible hands has knotted the holy bond of your marriage and has given you to one another
Mary Roberta Viano: “Why then do you not cherish each other with a most holy, a most sacred and a most divine love?” Good , 8:26 PM
Car because we forget to see each other as gifts from God?
Mary Roberta Viano: That’s one reason I like the deep reverence of the Latin Mass – deep reverence before God and so be
Daw: very much so. and Christian communities, our parishes
Mary Roberta Viano: Otherwise, it’s all about me and what I want from others for myself.
Guest512 (guest): http://www.focusonthefamily.com/~/media/images/about-us/focus-findings/christian-divorce-table.ashx?w=561&h=355&as=1 I just found a table of divorce statistics incl. Catholic Active — 31 % less . . .
Am: that’s great statistics
Sister Susan Marie: See Jesus in everyone
Mary Roberta Viano: good
Mary Roberta Viano: In one of his Conferences SFdS points out we can “expect no fruit of our labors without the grace of God.
In one of his Conferences SFdS points out we can “expect no fruit of our labors without the grace of God.”
Guest512 (guest): Mary Roberta, that makes sense to me.M
Mary Roberta Viano: so why can’t I in my little every day labors for Him?!
Car: because we don’t see the ordinary as sacred?
Oct 12 2014, 8:36 PM
Daw..to see Jesus in everyone. or can we try to see the other as Jesus sees them?
Alic: and its scary relying on someone you dont see
SrSusan (guest): Ordinary as sacred- beautiful way to live!
Mary Roberta Viano: so true – and relying to the point of giving up one’s life!
Alic: unbeleveable faith!
Mary Roberta Viano: so true – and relying to the point of giving up one’s life!
Mary Roberta Viano: Yes, let’s treasure the sacredness of one another during this upcoming week!
Car: because if the ordinary is sacred, we can all be holy. it’s not just for a few extraordinary people