Saint Francis and Saint Anselm use the word “condescension.” In our modern usage of the word, it usually carries a negative connotation. However, the ultimate meaning of the word is found in God’s actions: By means of the Incarnation God condescended (“came down”). God left His high status as God and came down lo
God left His high status as God and came down low to experience our low status as creatures (see Philippians 2:5-11). What does it mean for us to condescend when it involves humbly receiving the constructive crticism of others?Religious are bound by vows and one is to the evangelical counsel of obedience. They are (within reason of God’s law) set themselves aside for the sake of what they are told by their superiors. Catechism 995 says, “Christ proposes the evangelical counsels, in their great variety, to
“Christ proposes the evangelical counsels, in their great variety, to every disciple.” In the spirit of this reflection, how might we all practice obedience in our lives, even if we are not consecrated religious?
Where in Scripture or in the life of a Saint do you recall someone obeying God as His will is made manifest through someone else?
SrSusan (guest): Does this reflection mean that we should simply always do what others tell us to do? Why or why not?
How can we become more docile to the promptings of the Holy Spirit and the Will of God?
Hi Sister ! Thank You for invitation to chat on Sundays it is wonderful
And has been great encouragement to me ! I will not be able to attend tonight on the 4th Sunday of every month I participate in Kairos Prison Ministry at a Maximum Security Prison nearby ! Please ask group to pray for Men at meeting tonight from 6:30 – 900pm ! Thanks ! I will be praying for your discussion tonight ! God Bless You ! Brian
Karen P: I think we will find ourselves living out our beliefs as an example to others much like the orthodox Jews and the Amish do – apart from the world while still in the space of the world.
Judy K: Happy Good Shepherd Sunday everyone! How wonderful that we have such a Shepherd to love and to care for us. How I would love to see this Sunday be a true Vocations Sunday, in all parishes and religious institutions. One with many male and female orders invited to present their congregations and to offer literature to the people, young and older, who attend. I think that I will speak with the Shrine Director and see if we can put something together for next year.
Apr 26 2015, 7:09 PM
Lisa C:
Apr 26 2015, 7:12 PM
Judy K: It is sad that our children have few if any religious teaching in parish schools. The dioceses of the country should encourage vocations rallies to present the notion of religious life, and information about the types of orders and information about them. How can orders expect to find new members unless they truly put forth their way of life to young people.
Apr 26 2015, 7:12 PM
Lisa C: I do not know, it is worrisome.
Apr 26 2015, 7:13 PM
Lisa C: I do not think that we realized how lucky we were growing up in Catholic schools with Sisters teaching us.
Apr 26 2015, 7:14 PM
Lisa C: I know now how blessed I was.
Apr 26 2015, 7:14 PM
Judy K: I think that average age of most sisters today is 50 or even 60. There are few Sisters below the age of 50, except in the Dominican Sisters of Mary Mother of the Eucharist, the Sisters of Life, the Dominican Sisters of St. Cecilia, the Missionaries of Charity.
Apr 26 2015, 7:15 PM
Lisa C: and the Franciscan Sisters of the Renewal
Apr 26 2015, 7:15 PM
Judy K: I could not think of others off the top of my head.
Apr 26 2015, 7:15 PM
Lisa C: God will work it out, He must, but we need to pray.
Judy K: And we need to encourage vocations by mentioning them to the young people we know. 16 PM
Judy K: And older people too, for I believe that the Lord is calling some older folks too, men and women.
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Judy K: Was it at a parish, Mother?
Apr 26 2015, 7:19 PM
Lisa C: Re mentioning things to young people….I wonder whether they would listen
Apr 26 2015, 7:20 PM
Judy K: I think it might depend upon it is presented to them.
Apr 26 2015, 7:20 PM
Judy K: How it is presented to them.
Apr 26 2015, 7:21 PM
Judy K: Hi Dawn!
Apr 26 2015, 7:21 PM
Lisa C: I know that I did everything I could to teach my daughter everything I could about God and the church, but I think the world in which she grew up made it difficult for her
Apr 26 2015, 7:21 PM
Dawn L: Hi Judy
Apr 26 2015, 7:21 PM
SrSusan (guest): Yes a parish
Apr 26 2015, 7:21 PM
Judy K: That’s good!
7:22 PM
Lisa C: It is not that she does not believe, but I think that she is disillusioned by some things
Dawn L: chat is already lively
Apr 26 2015, 7:22 PM
Lisa C: This chat is always lively
Apr 26 2015, 7:23 PM
Judy K: Maybe we should get to tonight’s topic.
24 PM
Judy K: First of all, I have to say that I am not sure that I agree with the premise. I question its wisdom. , 7:24 PM
Lisa C: What premise24 PM
Lisa C: What premise
Apr 26 2015, 7:25 PM
Judy K: The premise that we should do anything that anyone asks of us.
Apr 26 2015, 7:25 PM
Lisa C: I agree
Apr 26 2015, 7:25 PM
SrSusan (guest): Do you mean discovering the Will of God thru others?
Apr 26 2015, 7:26 PM
Dawn L: I did not read it to mean that?
Apr 26 2015, 7:26 PM
Lisa C: Not doing everything anyone asks
Apr 26 2015, 7:26 PM
SrSusan (guest): I don’t think the premise was meant as far as that -doing whatever
5, 7:26 PM
Lisa C: Yes, I agree with trying to discover God’s will wherever it is manifest to us:27 PM
Lisa C: Well, by accident I kind of gave an example….we try to raise our children by guiding them to do what we think God would want them to do
Apr 26 2015, 7:27 PM
Carol Ann: Should we listen to what our neighbor asks us to do, and then pray to discern how God wants us to help?
7 PM
Lisa C: The 4th Commandment tells us to honor our father and mother
Apr 26 2015, 7:28 PM
Lisa C: We would expect that they want us to follow God’s will
Apr 26 2015, 7:28 PM
SrSusan (guest): Discernment is a good process if one has the time to do that and the request is not an immediate thing.
Dawn L: I consider this question in the form of mercy towards one in need8 PM
Lisa C: 1 John 4 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
Apr 26 2015, 7:29 PM
Lisa C: Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths (Prov 3:5-6 7).
Apr 26 2015, 7:29 PM
Carol Ann: I have gotten myself into trouble saying yes to everything, even good things, by saying yes to too much and not leaving myself enough time to be contemplative
Apr 26 2015, 7:29 PM
SrSusan (guest): Here’s an example:if you are in a parish and you are elected to aposition of service by the others there, without campaigning for it, then you could say the Will of God was manifested thru others
7:30 PM
Lisa C: John 14 15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Apr 26 2015, 7:30 PM
Judy K: I think that we can discover the will of God through others, but I don’t know if doing everything that others ask is wise. The example given in the article about St. Anselm who took some broth at the request of another, and immediately rejected it at the request of another. That seems just plain odd to me. It also means that you, in a sense, lose your own mind.
31 PM
Lisa C: I think for Religious it is more clear when they have to obey a superior who represents the will of God for them
Apr 26 2015, 7:31 PM
SrSusan (guest): Yes that is a sort of exageration and of the type used in “blind obedience” examples I think but saints used to think that way
, 7:31 PM
Lisa C: I think we have the Pope and Priests at mass…to tell us2 PM
Lisa C: St. Margaret Mary being very humble wanted to fade into the background and have nothing of herself revealed to anyone, but St. Claude de la Columbiere ordered her to write her down everything concerning the Sacred Heart. Jesus told her to do what her superior directed her to do, “…not only do I desire that you should do what your Superior commands, but also that you should do nothing of all that I request of you without their consent. I love obedience, and without it no one can please Me”……”Listen, My daug2015, 7:32 PM
Lisa C: “……”Listen, My daughter, and do not lightly believe and trust every spirit, for Satan is angry and will try to deceive you. So do nothing without the approval of those who guide you. Being thus under the authority of obedience, his efforts against you will be in vain, for he has no power over the obedient”2 PM
Judy K: Regarding the word condescension, the dictionary says that it means to come down willingly to the level of an inferior. In our context, I would say that it means to be submissive to others, to accept the constructive criticism of others (as indicated in the question). And then acting upon it if it is truly for our benefit and self improvement. 2 PM
SrSusan (guest): That’s an interesting example!
Lisa C: She was very humble
Apr 26 2015, 7:33 PM
Carol Ann: It has such a negative meaning now that I would hesitate to use the term most of the time
Apr 26 2015, 7:33 PM
Lisa C: St Lucia wanted the church to publish the third secret of Fatima known, but did not, because the Church did not want it published.
St. Joseph was told by an angel to take Baby Jesus and Blessed Mother into Egypt.
Blessed Mother was told by the Angel Gabriel that God wanted her to be the Mother of God. She said, “Let it be done unto me according to your will.”
St. Paul wrote Epistles to the Gentiles to manifest God’s will to them.
The Israelites discerned God’s will through Moses.
Apr 26 2015, 7:34 PM
Dawn L: Hi Carol and Anne!
Apr 26 2015, 7:34 PM
SrSusan (guest): In the Visitation we encourage “yielding to the other” but not abnormally where for ex one would keep defering , one to the other, and no one would make a step beyond the yielding process!~
Apr 26 2015, 7:34 PM
Judy K: Hi Anne!
7:35 PM
Lisa C: I guess if we trust God He will lead us to do His will
SrSusan (guest): Since this centers around God’s Will, how might He be showing us His Will? That’s another way of phrasing it and certainly others do manifest it at times, for us
Lisa C: Mother, by our conscience
SrSusan (guest): Circumstances, how things play out, also give hints of God’s Will
Apr 26 2015, 7:37 PM
Judy K: Some others who responded to the will of God made know through others–Namaan 2Kings 5:10-14 when Elijah told him to bathe 7 times in the Jordan. It took him a while to do so. And the Widow of Zarapheth who was asked to make a little cake for him when she had only a little bit of oil and flour. She complied and was rewarded with oil and flour that lasted until the end of the drought.
8 PM
Lisa C: yes, like last week putting me in the same pew as a person I was hoping to avoid
Apr 26 2015, 7:38 PM
Judy K: Little cake for Elijah.
Apr 26 2015, 7:38 PM
SrSusan (guest): Hi Ruth, Karen, Anne
SrSusan (guest): Yes hearing the same thing several times can be the emphasis God is using thru others.
Apr 26 2015, 7:39 PM
Carol Ann: Like that, Lisa. It looks accidental, but perhaps you both were listening to the Spirit
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Karen P: Hello everyone! I was just reading through the discussion so far. I have to admit that I did not yet read the newsletter for this week. It has been a very busy week for me.
Apr 26 2015, 7:39 PM
Ruth (guest): Hello everyone.
7:40 PM
Judy K: Regarding how obedience might be practiced by us secular folk, I would think of obedience to all lawful authority (civil, etc,), the directives of our bosses, obedience to the Holy Father, to the Magisterium of the Church, the Commandments of God and of the church. 1 PM
Ruth (guest): I’ve been thinking about the questions in the newsletter but am playing catcheup with the chat.
Apr 26 2015, 7:41 PM
Lisa C: Oh civil authority is not so good lately….abortion, gay marriage, euthenasia
42 PM
Ruth (guest): “After you my dear Gadstone” and no one passes through the door.
Apr 26 2015, 7:42 PM
Lisa C: Lately civil authority is trespassing on religious freedom
3 PM
Karen P: Just skimmed through the newsletter. Interesting questions for the week.
Apr 26 2015, 7:43 PM
Judy K: Of course, we do not owe obedience to anyone who wants us to violate the truths of our faith, to do something evil or sinful, something that is dangerous, life or health threatening.
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Carol Ann: Sometimes,more than one person will tell me the same thing. If two people say the same thing in a week, it may be coincidence, but if three do, it’s deeper than that
Dawn L: I think obedience to great commands to love God and neighbor as self. this is one way how I can discern God
Apr 26 2015, 7:43 PM
Dawn L: will
Apr 26 2015, 7:44 PM
Judy K: Also, the people may not have our best interests at heart and might be feeding their selfishness, thereby being enablers.
Apr 26 2015, 7:44 PM
Lisa C: I think people these days think that whatever anyone wants should be allowed
015, 7:44 PM
Karen P: Civil obedience may be similar to giving to Caesar what is Caesar’s in the way of following the laws of the land where you live – but I think it only goes as far as the point at which you are violating God’s commands.
Ruth (guest): I can see that working in a convent or monastery where the goodwill of others may be assumed or in a marriage. I’m not at all sure about in general society
7:45 PM
Judy K: Correction: and we might be feeding their selfishness thereby being enablers. PM
Carol Ann: So where is the will of God in our anything you want society? Is it we who are here who must say what it is? :45 PM
Lisa C: When Cesar wants to kill the defenseless like pre born babies and old people that cannot be allowedPM
Karen P: Exactly so at the point where it is in violation of God’s commandments and our interior moral law – then I think we have to choose civil disobedience.
Apr 26 2015, 7:46 PM
Lisa C: Carol Ann I think that the church does not have to give in…we have ethical reasons for our views, it is not that we want to exclude anyone
Apr 26 2015, 7:46 PM
Judy K: Obedience is never expected in cases where evil or sin in involved.
7 PM
Lisa C: Everyone who thinks we are discriminating misses the point…good and evil are not relative
Apr 26 2015, 7:48 PM
Judy K: We must uphold the expectations of our faith and live exemplary lives.
Apr 26 2015, 7:48 PM
Carol Ann: Yes,Lisa, we agree on that. But is it us who must speak up and say what we believe God’s will is individually, or do we let The Church speak for us?
Apr 26 2015, 7:48 PM
SrSusan (guest): Even in our religious Constitutions it states we do not obey the Superior if she should counsel something morally wrong
Apr 26 2015, 7:48 PM
Lisa C: Oh we should speak as individuals too
Apr 26 2015, 7:48 PM
SrSusan (guest): We are members of the Church and Christ’s Body
Apr 26 2015, 7:48 PM
Judy K: We must speak up, and the Church as a whole must speak up also.
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Karen P: Unfortunately, there are those who do not accept that there is a God and that He does have commandments that we should follow. So while good and evil are not relative, we are not all starting from the same starting point. PM
Lisa C: Karen, I agree, but we should be allowed to hold our beliefs and not be forced to do what others want us to
Apr 26 2015, 7:49 PM
Carol Ann: That’s what makes things so interesting. Those who do not believe God’s will is made known through His Church must still have a voice
Apr 26 2015, 7:49 PM
SrSusan (guest): We need to learn holy skills of persuasion. How did the early Christians persuade in their pagan environments?
SrSusan (guest): No wonder rhetoric was such a big piece of education in earlier days, even in St Francis de Sales days
Apr 26 2015, 7:50 PM
Lisa C: Mother, they took on some of the customs like Christmas trees etc. but I think the real way they did it was by showing love to the pagens
Carol Ann: So while we speak for the Truth of our Faith, and try to persuade others, we can’t attack them the way they sometimes attack us
Apr 26 2015, 7:50 PM
Karen P: I agree that we should be able to hold our views. But finding a way to be able to do so may allow us to do so and still allow others to do things that we find morally offensive while being legally allowed.
:51 PM
Lisa C: Oh Karen that would be ok if they were not hurting others…but they kill pre born babies7:51 PM
Judy K: I think that the early Christians focused on the life, teachings and miracles of Jesus, making Him as attractive as He truly is. pr 26 2015, 7:52 PM
Lisa C: I think we should try to help the defenseles
Karen P: I don’t disagree with you Lisa, and I know there are things that should not happen. The law says they are okay, and we know they are not. We cannot stop these things simply. We have to find ways to show that they are wrong and we have to continue to pray that the way we do so opens the door for others to join in our thinking – not create a bigger battlefield.
Apr 26 2015, 7:53 PM
Lisa C: Someone has the freedom to hurt themselves and their own life if they wish, but what if they are hurting someone who is not able to defend themselves?
Judy K: Our world today makes it especially difficult for us. If we stand up for our faith, we are accused of being discriminating against others. I wonder if we can avoid that if we defend what is moral. But we do not discriminate against the people, but against their life style.
Apr 26 2015, 7:55 PM
Dawn L: Praying the Rosary, yes remarkable this Bishop spoke out. I feel that way….if we could all just pray the Rosary in large numbers, somehow our Lady would
Judy K: I sometimes think that only the Lord Himself can bring an end to the atrocities going on in the Middle East. The Lord Himself needs to make know to them what is right.
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Amy Cochran: although, remember, “Be not afraid” and trust in Jesus
Amy Cochran: I believe the Eucharist and rosary will be our strength
8 PM
Karen P: I have continued to find more and more in the past few years, that prayer IS the answer to almost everything. We just don’t have the nation of pray warriors that we need to change the country. But for those of us who do pray – we need to continue even as we look for God to reveal what further we should do.
Apr 26 2015, 7:58 PM
Dawn L: yes, Amy I agree
Judy K: Oh my, we surely do live in a world full of obstacles, road blocks to living a truly Christian life, life as defined by Jesus. We need to be women of prayer to fortify our lives of faith and action. And speaking of prayer, let us pray for Brian, who at the very beginning of the chat, asked for our prayers for him and the prisoners to whom he would be ministering this evening.
Apr 26 2015, 8:12 PM
Lisa C: shake the due off our feet
Apr 26 2015, 8:12 PM
Carol Ann: I’m shocked by it all. So much emphasis has been placed on individual conscience (and we should have one) that the CHurch’s authority is overlooked
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Karen P: I can understand wanting to be clear to people that God loves all – even those who are gay, but we all must follow God’s commandments. So gays remain celibate, and those of us who are single remain celibate, and we live as who we are in a way that is pleasing to God.
Apr 26 2015, 8:13 PM
Lisa C: dust
Apr 26 2015, 8:13 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: the Church, which is Who forms our individual consciences!
Karen P: I think we can go out into the world by our example and still live apart from its culture by not taking part in the things that go against our faith. If we can cluster together – we can be apart but able to reach out in the world by example.
Apr 26 2015, 8:15 PM
Amy Cochran: we can love the sinner and hate the sin
5 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: The problem is that we are now coerced everywhere into acting against our Christian consciences.
Apr 26 2015, 8:16 PM
Lisa C: We cannot condone sin
Apr 26 2015, 8:16 PM
Carol Ann: And show them by loving them and living our faith for them to see
Judy K: I have to confess that I wonder if I have the courage to face the persecution that I fear may be heading our way. I beg the help of the Lord and ask for your prayers for this. Indeed let us pray for each other that we will all have what we need to withstand anything that may be coming our way.
Apr 26 2015, 8:16 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: We’re accused of not being “tolerant” if we’re faithful to Christ.
Apr 26 2015, 8:16 PM
Amy Cochran: peaceful resistance to sin. I think it can be done but not without a price like persecution
Apr 26 2015, 8:16 PM
Anne M: Yes Sister, sometimes also we are left feeling like aliens in our environment, but so be it.
Apr 26 2015, 8:16 PM
Ruth (guest): Karen, Amy that is the point.
Apr 26 2015, 8:17 PM
Lisa C: Sister, let them call us intolerant, we are not, we are faithful to our God
Apr 26 2015, 8:17 PM
Ruth (guest): Sr. Susan, I think the public press twists what the Pope says a great deal.
Apr 26 2015, 8:17 PM
Amy Cochran: I think we can just remember that following Christ means we will suffer
Apr 26 2015, 8:17 PM
Carol Ann: We are aliens in our environment in many senses
Apr 26 2015, 8:17 PM
Dawn L: Vatican catholic news only
Apr 26 2015, 8:18 PM
Ruth (guest): But sometimes he makes statements, though, that really are easily misunderstood.
Apr 26 2015, 8:18 PM
Amy Cochran: Good idea, Dawn, I think the media twists the truth
8 PM
Dawn L: yes,Amy, Christ forwarned us
Apr 26 2015, 8:18 PM
Lisa C: Pope Francis needs spin doctors to follow him around
Mary Roberta Viano: So true, following Christ is about carrying the cross.
Apr 26 2015, 8:19 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: I just read an article about the end of “comfortable Christianity”!
Mary Roberta Viano: The article was in the most recent “Touchstone” magazine.
Judy K: The last question asks how we can become more docile to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. We need to begin with submission to lawful authority in line with the Word of God. Then praying for the sensitivity to be able to hear the Holy Spirit as He speaks to us, to be able to comprehend what He is asking, and the grace to be submissive to what He wills for us.
Apr 26 2015, 8:21 PM
Anne M: When someone is blind to the ways of the Lord, they don’t care the truth is. It’s about what they want. Words are always manipulated.
Carol Ann: I think the problems are still the same, but they are manifested differenty
Apr 26 2015, 8:23 PM
Karen P: Yes, people often felt they were in the worst of times. It seems that we continue to be in the worst of times. But Christ and His church are still here!
Apr 26 2015, 8:23 PM
Anne M: Yes Karen, and He has overcome the world!!!
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Judy K: “Day by day, O dear Lord three things I pray–to see Thee more clearly, love Thee more dearly, follow Thee more nearly, day by day.”
Apr 26 2015, 8:24 PM
Carol Ann: and the Church will never be defeated
Apr 26 2015, 8:24 PM
Karen P: So we will continue to pray! And pray! and pray!
PM
Amy Cochran: and the gates of hell will not prevail against His Church
Apr 26 2015, 8:24 PM
Anne M: and pray and pray and pray!
24 PM
Ruth (guest): Nice prayer,Judy K. PM
Judy K: I was thinking the same thing, Amy.
Apr 26 2015, 8:24 PM
Karen P: And pray our rosary for the world to have peace!
Apr 26 2015, 8:24 PM
Anne M: that’s a song, right?
Apr 26 2015, 8:25 PM
Judy K: Yep, from “Godspell.”
25 PM
Judy K: And remember our 9 PM prayer time for our country and our world.
Apr 26 2015, 8:25 PM
Ruth (guest): And we have to see Him clearly, even in those in sin.
Apr 26 2015, 8:25 PM
Dawn L: Rosary and prayer
Apr 26 2015, 8:26 PM
SrSusan (guest): The power of 11 of us praying plus all the others you may pray with!
:26 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, we can always form groups of prayer warriors, and as we do, more will join us
Apr 26 2015, 8:26 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Yes, the power of prayer is amazing! So it’s important to persevere despite everything.
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Karen P: Well, it is about that time, and I need to sign off early tonight! I will pray even more this week and I will pray for our country and peace in the world at 9 each night.
Apr 26 2015, 8:28 PM
Amy Cochran: ok, I will pray at 9 too~
Apr 26 2015, 8:28 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: and for the poor people in Nepal1
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Carol Ann: Let’s continue to pray for each other and for the world
Apr 26 2015, 8:28 PM
Dawn L: so, 6 pm PST….thats almost here
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Anne M: Yes, those were some bad quakes. Yikes
Apr 26 2015, 8:28 PM
Lisa C: and for souls in purgatory
Apr 26 2015, 8:28 PM
Karen P: May God bless everyone in the coming week. See you next week in chat! Good night!