- Marriage has existed as humanity’s oldest institution. Do you think it is coincidental that God as a family of Persons (Father, Son, Spirit) has created humanity as a family of persons? What are your thoughts on this?
- John Paul says that we are to take seriously that we are both body and soul. How does our modern world often neglect this reality? How might you ever neglect this reality?
- John Paul mentions the “responsible fertility” that parents are supposed to have. What do you think this means?
- Even though family is a profound nucleus of society, John Paul mentions that celibacy and virginity also fulfills the human persons nature. How can both marriage and vowed celibacy be compatible?
015, 7:24 PM
Dawn L: to the first question, my answer is Love. both are created in Love
15, 7:24 PM
Ann: I answered love and strength
Ann: for the first question
Oct 25 2015, 7:25 PM
VisitationSiste: Mutuality in love
Oct 25 2015, 7:25 PM
Lisa C: God is love and love requires more than one person, everything about God, Himself to Himself, and to us is about a relationship, us to each other and to God
2015, 7:26 PM
Lisa C: God is our father and our spouse and our brother and His Mother is our Mother……one big family
Oct 25 2015, 7:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Beautiful and true
PM
Lisa C: The Church is also a of family of God and a spouse of God :27 PM
Dawn L: adding “mutuality” adds deeper more clear meaning
7:28 PM
Lisa C: Ideally mutual, but we need grace to make it mutual
Oct 25 2015, 7:28 PM
Dawn L: as Lisa is saying, are you…one does not exist without the other
Oct 25 2015, 7:28 PM
VisitationSiste: and the Trinity is a “family” of persons- or rather our families are in some way like the Trinity?
Oct 25 2015, 7:29 PM
Lisa C: Oh no Dawn, God can exist without us
Lisa C: He does not need us
Oct 25 2015, 7:29 PM
Lisa C: He just loves us into being
Oct 25 2015, 7:29 PM
Dawn L: yes
0 PM
Lisa C: That is why marriage is indissolvable, love is eternal
Oct 25 2015, 7:30 PM
Lisa C: Love cannot stop
1 PM
Lisa C: God is love so love cannot end
, 7:32 PM
Lisa C: Love = God is required for a marriage and a family, God is built into it
Oct 25 2015, 7:32 PM
Judy K: I gather that you are working on the first question. Yes?
Oct 25 2015, 7:33 PM
VisitationSiste: One time I thought of this in a very non-equivacal way- yet helpful to me- 2 siblings will always be siblings even if they never talk to or see one another again- marriage makes one so much a part of the other that even if you separate you are still part of the other
Oct 25 2015, 7:33 PM
Dawn L: that is helpful Mother
Oct 25 2015, 7:33 PM
Ann: Thank you, Mother
Oct 25 2015, 7:33 PM
Lisa C: Mother, I think with children that becomes even more true. Both of you are now a new person
7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes the great mystery of a child- 2 persons become united in a third new person
Oct 25 2015, 7:35 PM
Judy K: my response: God, as creator, and part of a triune family, made man and woman in His image, even to participating in creation (“increase and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it”) implicitly willing family life.
6 PM
Lisa C: The child unites the family of the father and the mother into one bigger family 7 PM
Lisa C: If you keep going back to all the families united that way, I think the whole world is really one big family PM
VisitationSiste: I think we take the most profound truths for granted
Oct 25 2015, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: and love has a deep mystical quality about it
Oct 25 2015, 7:38 PM
Dawn L: for granted, like do not notice. but reading these, they are very noticed!
Oct 25 2015, 7:38 PM
Lisa C: Imagine making dinner for all of them? Only God could do it at the Wedding Supper of the Lamb
Oct 25 2015, 7:39 PM
Judy K: Since we are all children of the same Father, the world is indeed one big family.
:39 PM
Judy K: If only the terrorist factions would come to realize that fact.
Oct 25 2015, 7:39 PM
VisitationSiste: And in that dinner He gives Himself!
Oct 25 2015, 7:39 PM
Ann: Yes, I was just thinking that very same thing, Judy.
:40 PM
VisitationSiste: and diversity in families is very real- ask any mom of several or even 2 children- how different they can be
1 PM
Judy K: Imagine if we were all exactly alike. What an either boring or chaotic world this would be.
Oct 25 2015, 7:42 PM
Lisa C: Bishop Baron said that St. Thomas Aquinas said that about angels. Each one is its own species.
Oct 25 2015, 7:42 PM
Dawn L: yes, Mother. very different, not conformed to be alike, but united
1 PM
7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: unique in body and soul
Oct 25 2015, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: even twins
M
VisitationSiste: Years ago speaking of one’s soul was very common at least among spiritual minded persons- one does not hear soul much today tho PM
Lisa C: I wonder when identical twins get two souls. Since they come from one, do they get it when the embryo splits, or do they have two souls when they are still together?
Oct 25 2015, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: Great question- I have wondered myself about that
PM
Lisa C: My guess is that the two souls are in there before they split
Oct 25 2015, 7:46 PM
Lisa C: God knows they are two people
Oct 25 2015, 7:46 PM
Judy K: Come to think of it, it is a rather chaotic world at present.There is a neglect of the reality of body and soul, pushing the reality of the soul aside. This is evidenced by the cultural changes lacking in a moral base. Abortion, same sex marriage, contraception and cohabitation, show a total disregard for the well-being of the soul, disregarding the law of God and thus facing the possibility of eternal damnation.
Oct 25 2015, 7:47 PM
Lisa C: God loves us, I think He will find a way to prevent eternal damnation
Oct 25 2015, 7:47 PM
Lisa C: He will get through to them eventually
Oct 25 2015, 7:47 PM
Lisa C: Prodigal sons
Oct 25 2015, 7:48 PM
Ann: It is very chaotic. So many are trying to “get ahead”, and they are focused on the material world, rather than the health of the spiritual aspect of ourselves.
Oct 25 2015, 7:48 PM
Amy Cochran: Yes, God loves us, but He also is just. Besides, I read that God does not condemn the soul; the soul choses to go there
Oct 25 2015, 7:48 PM
Judy K: I agree Lisa!
9 PM
Lisa C: God is just but He is merciful and loving and we are His children
Oct 25 2015, 7:49 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Amy!
Oct 25 2015, 7:49 PM
Lisa C: Purgatory is for justice
Oct 25 2015, 7:4
7:49 PM
Judy K: Yes Amy by rejecting the laws of God, the soul does choose to send itself to Hell.
Oct 25 2015, 7:50 PM
Dawn L: is Purgatory only for justice, or is it for purification, out of Love
Oct 25 2015, 7:50 PM
Lisa C: both Dawn, I think
Oct 25 2015, 7:50 PM
Amy Cochran: It is the soul that does not accept God’s Mercy endures His Justice
Oct 25 2015, 7:50 PM
Ann: Yes Judy, I strongly agree when you mention cultural changes lacking in a moral base. So many are so focused on this world, they forget that this is just a step forward for us. A realm in which for us to learn, but by focusing on materialism, they are blind to the real rewards which await us in God’s home.
Oct 25 2015, 7:50 PM
Judy K: I think both also.
Oct 25 2015, 7:50 PM
Amy Cochran: Did you ever read st. Gertrude Fire of Love? I think it was St. Gertrude?
PM
Amy Cochran: Yes, she portrays purgatory as a choice, as only a perfect soul can enter Heaven. and it is a place not to be feared
Oct 25 2015, 7:52 PM
Lisa C: Not one of us deserves Jesus, we only have Him due to grace. How can God give us grace and not others? Because we are chosen to work for Him now to help with the salvation of others. Would it be JUST for Him to give grace to some and not others?
Oct 25 2015, 7:52 PM
Dawn L: I imagine the fire of love is what suffering here is, and maybe purgatory
2 PM
Lisa C: To those who have been given more, more is expected
Oct 25 2015, 7:53 PM
Judy K: St. Gertrude wrote “Herald of Divine Love.” I think that St. John of the Cross wrote “The Living Flame of Love.”
:53 PM
Lisa C: St. Gertrude in the Herald of Divine Love was told by Jesus that at the point of death everyone will see Jesus as loving and merciful and will accept Him right then 7:54 PM
Dawn L: I think God desires us, all of us.
Oct 25 2015, 7:54 PM
Lisa C: God is not unfair
55 PM
VisitationSiste: Some Visitandines did experience souls coming to them from purgatory
Oct 25 2015, 7:55 PM
Amy Cochran: sorry, my mistake. st. Catherine of sienna wrote about purgatory
Oct 25 2015, 7:56 PM
VisitationSiste: http://visitationspirit.org/2013/10/a-visitandine-speaks-souls-in-purgatory/
A Visitandine speaks: Souls in Purgatory | Visitation Spirit
Oct 25 2015, 7:56 PM
Judy K: Gertrude’s book is a tremendous revelation of the Lover and the Beloved, Jesus as the Lover and Gertrude as the Beloved. And in the book, He calls her His beloved. Their relationship is the most intimate relationship between Jesus and one of His creatures that I have ever read. It is so very beautiful! Would that we all had such a relationship with the Lord!
Oct 25 2015, 7:56 PM
Amy Cochran: one last time, st. Catherine of GENOA, too many holy women lol
Oct 25 2015, 7:57 PM
VisitationSiste: http://visitationspirit.org/2014/10/nov-mystic-of-holy-souls-sr-marie-denise-de-martignat/
Oct 25 2015, 7:57 PM
Lisa C: St. Gertrude knew the Sacred Heart before St. Margaret Mary and it is interesting that they both were allowed to rest their heads on His chest
5, 7:57 PM
Lisa C: Like St. John
Oct 25 2015, 7:58 PM
Judy K: Last night, Mother Angelica was speaking of St. Catherine of Genoa and her relationship with the souls in purgatory.
Oct 25 2015, 7:59 PM
Dawn L: interesting also that our chat has moved towards souls in purgatory as we near Holy Souls in Nov
Oct 25 2015, 7:59 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Dawn- that is interesting
Oct 25 2015, 7:59 PM
Dawn L: thank you for your links Mother!
Oct 25 2015, 7:59 PM
Ann: Yes, thank you Mother.
Lisa C: Souls in purgatory are very uncomfortable and most of them have no one to pray for them. I offer all my rosaries for them
Oct 25 2015, 8:01 PM
VisitationSiste: Beautiful, Lisa and most needed
Oct 25 2015, 8:01 PM
Ann: I also offer my rosaries for them.
PM
Ann: Yes. I have never heard it mentioned.
Oct 25 2015, 8:02 PM
Lisa C: I think Mother, priests do not want to make families feel worse
that we need to realize that most of us, unless especially blessed by the Lord, will be souls in purgatory ourselves. Each day I pray for the most abandoned soul in purgatory, that the Lord will let one drop of His Precious Blood fall upon that one and release it to Himself; for all the souls in purgatory that He will have mercy on them and shorten their time; and for the soul most in danger of being lost, that the Lord will touch that one and draw it irrestibly to Himself.
Oct 25 2015, 8:03 PM
Lisa C: I used to think that if we went to confession that we would skip purgatory for those sins, but apparently not. We still have to make amends for each sin unless we make sacrifices now.
Oct 25 2015, 8:03 PM
Lisa C: Confession just forgives the sin. It does not satisfy justice.
PM
VisitationSiste: A good way to unite generations of families would be to pray for their souls
Oct 25 2015, 8:05 PM
Lisa C: The souls in purgatory are praying for us for sure
Oct 25 2015, 8:05 PM
Lisa C: They know what danger we are all in
PM
Judy K: It is like going to jail for robbery. But restitution still has to be made. Jail fills the need for justice. Restitution still in needed so that the property is returned to its rightful owner. 06 PM
Lisa C: I wish we were told that in school
Oct 25 2015, 8:06 PM
Ann: I do too
Oct 25 2015, 8:06 PM
Dawn L
Oct 25 2015, 8:06 PM
Dawn L: to pray for the whole family together, those passed?
Oct 25 2015, 8:06 PM
Lisa C: No, about justice being different from forgiveness
:08 PM
Lisa C: We can do lots of good things before we die, but I think we would have to do tons of them
Oct 25 2015, 8:08 PM
Judy K: On to question 3–what do you all think about responsible fertility?
9 PM
Dawn L: natural family planning, Judy?
Oct 25 2015, 8:09 PM
Ann: That is what I wish I had learned too. No one taught that when I was in school either. Perhaps the teachers thought they would have scared us, but I would have rather they would have been honest then, and taught us what we needed to know. I learned much about history, but not so much about what I could do, not only for my own soul, but to pray for the souls of others, especially those who are most forgotten about.
10 PM
Lisa C: We did learn to pray for souls in purgatory, but not about justice
Oct 25 2015, 8:10 PM
Lisa C: I agree Ann, I think that they did not want to scare us
PM
Ann: For question 3, I wrote down natural family planning, and honest and clear communication about the couple’s wishes, mutual or otherwise about children, so they could come to common ground with each other.
Oct 25 2015, 8:11 PM
Dawn L: to question 3, I thought natural family planning is one way to be responsible for fertility
Oct 25 2015, 8:11 PM
Ann: Thank you, Lisa.
Oct 25 2015, 8:11 PM
VisitationSiste: We were very scared ! They talked to us about hell
2 PM
Ann: When I was in school, I was told there was no hell, only purgatory. They didn’t explain purgatory though.
Oct 25 2015, 8:12 PM
Judy K: It just occurred to me that the term should be responsible reproduction. Fertility is what it is, and differs from person to person. It is something that we cannot control. However, reproduction can be controlled, and to do so responsibly probably refers to natural family planning which helps not to destroy the family financial base.
Oct 25 2015, 8:12 PM
Lisa C: Part of it was probably Vatican II, in grammar school we were probably too young to learn about it. In High School everything was folk masses, banners and a little bit of the bible
Oct 25 2015, 8:12 PM
Ann: Hello Sister Mary Roberta
Oct 25 2015, 8:12 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Hello!
PM
Dawn L: I was moved away from the church at 8 yrs old, so I missed all of this. its good to hear discussion about it. my sister went all through high school but never spoke about it
Oct 25 2015, 8:12 PM
Lisa C: Mother, we heard about hell, but we did not think we were going there because we went to church, loved our parents, and tried to be good
Oct 25 2015, 8:13 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: We’re getting ready for our last open house tomorrow for our students for the Year of Consecrated Life.
Oct 25 2015, 8:13 PM
Dawn L: Hi Sr Mary Roberta!
3 PM
Judy K: We certainly learned about Hell, but somewhere in the back of my mind, I think that we did learn about God’s justice as well as His forgiveness.
Oct 25 2015, 8:14 PM
Lisa C: Natural Family Planning only works with regular cycles
Oct 25 2015, 8:14 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: So the discussion is about hell: I’m hoping to read about it in Dante’s Inferno soon.
Oct 25 2015, 8:14 PM
Lisa C: Sorry to be so medical
Oct 25 2015, 8:14 PM
Dawn L: ….are the students going to read, study Dante?
Oct 25 2015, 8:15 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: and there’s a current short video on Busted Halo: You Don’t Know Jack – on Hell. Very informative.
Dawn L: are the students at your school reading, watching these?
Oct 25 2015, 8:16 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: No, I don’t think our students read Dante. Some adults meet in school with an Italian teacher to read it.
Oct 25 2015, 8:16 PM
VisitationSiste: The discussion is on family actually but we move around!
PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Did the Synod document defend the Church’s teachings on the family then?
Oct 25 2015, 8:17 PM
Ann: Quite alright Lisa. When I said natural family planning, a big part of what I meant, was communication, which is the basis of a solid relationship. As to fertility, that is something they would discover as a married couple.
Oct 25 2015, 8:17 PM
VisitationSiste: I think the last question on celibacy and virginity has merit and also celibacy and committed chastity for those who have been married
Oct 25 2015, 8:17 PM
Lisa C: Sister, the full document is not translated yet
Oct 25 2015, 8:17 PM
Dawn L: answer to 4…I wrote marriage is union to become one with God. Vowed celibacy is union to become one with God and this is how they are same
:18 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: In marriage the spouse promise to help bring one another closer to Our Lord.
8 PM
Judy K: I sometimes wonder if it is its unreliability that makes natural family planning acceptable to the Church. My big question about contraception is why so called artificial contraception is sinful, but the “natural” method is all right. The desired end of each is the prevention of conception. In ethics, I was taught that the end never justifies the means, so your cannot use good means toward a bad end, or vice versa. PM
Lisa C: Judy, St. Paul said things consistent with natural family planning
Oct 25 2015, 8:19 PM
Lisa C: You are not blocking conception if you are not together
Oct 25 2015, 8:19 PM
Ann: I had pretty much the same answer for that as Dawn.
Oct 25 2015, 8:19 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Abstention is not the same as chemically preventing conception.
PM
Lisa C: You are supposed to be open to conception when you are together :20 PM
Judy K: Celibacy and marriage are both ordered to fruitfulness. In marriage, that fruitfulness is seen in the children born to the couple. Vowed celibacy is also productive of fruit. The vowed celibate is, in effect, a spiritual parent, nurturing the life of faith in all members of the family, that is the Church. 2 PM
Judy K: But the purpose of using infertile periods is to avoid conception, the same as chemical contraception.
Oct 25 2015, 8:22 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: True, Judy! That’s partly why I think Our Lord led me to the religious life. Since my sons are grown and won’t marry, I consider our girls my spiritual daughters.
23 PM
VisitationSiste: I am no expert here Judy buy I think the chemicals are the issue
Oct 25 2015, 8:24 PM
Lisa C: Do not deprive one another except with consent for a time, that you may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again so that Satan does not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.
Oct 25 2015, 8:24 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Yes, it’s not using your spouse simply for pleasure when you’re together, but always being open to the possibility of conception.
Oct 25 2015, 8:24 PM
VisitationSiste: I think the way the heart loves is different in marriage vs celibacy but since I was never married I am not sure
Oct 25 2015, 8:24 PM
Lisa C: that is st paul
5 PM
Judy K: Yes, the chemicals are the issue, but since the desired end is the same, I believe that both are equally wrong. Therefore both should be forbidden.
Oct 25 2015, 8:25 PM
Lisa C: No, Judy they are not equally wrong
, 8:27 PM
Lisa C: If they were equally wrong then people should have a baby every year
Oct 25 2015, 8:27 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Time to consult the CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church)!
, 8:27 PM
Lisa C: If they were equally wrong then people should have a baby every year
Oct 25 2015, 8:27 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Time to consult the CCC (Catechism of the Catholic Church)!
:28 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: and spouse did produce a child almost every year in the past: SJFdC had 6 children in her 8 years of marriage (only 4 survived).
Oct 25 2015, 8:28 PM
Lisa C: But any time there are relations the possibility of a child cannot be prevented
Oct 25 2015, 8:29 PM
Judy K: Right, but the procreative element cannot be excluded from the act. Ah, Lisa, there is the problem, using infertile periods does prevent the possibility of a child.
Oct 25 2015, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Read St Francis de Sales:http://visitationspirit.org/2015/10/st-francis-de-sales-instructions-to-married-persons/
St. Francis de Sales: Instructions to Married persons | Visitation Spirit
Oct 25 2015, 8:29 PM
Lisa C: No Judy
Oct 25 2015, 8:29 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: SFdS in the INTRO says: “It is a great honor to you who are married that God in His design uses you to multiply souls who my bless and praise Him for all eternity.”
Oct 25 2015, 8:29 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: may bless and praise Him
PM
Mary Roberta Viano: “bodies into which He infuses immortal souls, like heavenly drops, as He creates them.
Oct 25 2015, 8:31 PM
Judy K: I guess the situation is beyond my powers of comprehension and thank God that He allowed me to remain single so that I do not have to be concerned with it.
Oct 25 2015, 8:31 PM
Lisa C: 2362 “The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude” (Gaudium et Spes 49 § 2). Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:
Oct 25 2015, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: What did the catechism say
Oct 25 2015, 8:32 PM
Lisa C: he Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation (Pius XII, Discourse, October 29, 1951).
Oct 25 2015, 8:32 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Marriage, he says, is “the nursery of Christianity, which supplies the earth with faithful souls to complete the number of the elect in heaven.
Oct 25 2015, 8:32 PM
Lisa C: 2363 The spouses’ union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple’s spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family. The conjugal love of man and woman thus stands under the twofold obligation of fidelity and fecundity.
3 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: and now we’re barely managing to replace population – or not even that in places like China, and here in the States because of contraception. 3 PM
Ann: This is a very interesting conversation, but I need to get going. God bless all of you! See you next week.
Oct 25 2015, 8:34 PM
Dawn L: Good night Ann
Oct 25 2015, 8:34 PM
Ann: Thank you Mother. Good night. Good night all.
Oct 25 2015, 8:34 PM
VisitationSiste: Yet in my lifetime the world’s population has doubled
Oct 25 2015, 8:34 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: OK. Good night. Prayers for each of you as we move through the coming week!
Oct 25 2015, 8:35 PM
VisitationSiste: Good night and God bless!