If vows are once-and-for-all, then why do you think it is important to have them renewed?
How might we see things similar to vows in secular society?
How are religious vows and marriage vows related? How can married couples benefit from this idea of renewing vows?
What commitments have YOU made?
Nov 13 2015, 9:53 AM
Guest8673 (guest): I think vows would need to be renewed because a person can become too comfortable in their station of life, and sometimes have to stop and just remember how they got there and why they chose that vocation.
Nov 15 2015, 7:11 PM
Ann: Hello Lisa
Nov 15 2015, 7:11 PM
Lisa C: Hi Ann
Nov 15 2015, 7:12 PM
Ann: Hi Alice
Nov 15 2015, 7:12 PM
Lisa C: Hi Alice
Nov 15 2015, 7:13 PM
Alice Lewis-Eckardt: Hi Ann and Lisa
Nov 15 2015, 7:13 PM
Judy K: Mother and all of your Sisters, may you find special blessings as you renew your vows on November 21st. May you be strengthened in your consecration and find an ever deepening relationship with your Divine Spouse.
Nov 15 2015, 7:13 PM
Ann: Hello Judy
Nov 15 2015, 7:13 PM
Lisa C: Hi Judy
Nov 15 2015, 7:13 PM
Alice Lewis-Eckardt: Hi Judy
Nov 15 2015, 7:14 PM
Judy K: Hi Ann, Lisa and Alice.
Nov 15 2015, 7:15 PM
Judy K: Dear Mother and all of your Sisters, may you receive many blessings as you renew your vows on November 21st. May you be strengthened in your commitment and enter into an ever deepening relationship with your Spouse.
Nov 15 2015, 7:16 PM
Judy K: Uh oh, rerun!
Nov 15 2015, 7:17 PM
Judy K: Welcome, viewer!
Nov 15 2015, 7:18 PM
Judy K: Everybody have a good week?
Nov 15 2015, 7:18 PM
Ann: Yes thank you, and you?
Nov 15 2015, 7:19 PM
Ann: Hello Anne
Welcome to our Living Jesus Chat Room. Just sign in, using any of the methods below.
Nov 15 2015, 7:19 PM
Anne M: Hi everyone. Hello Ann
Nov 15 2015, 7:19 PM
Lisa C: Hi Anne
Nov 15 2015, 7:19 PM
Anne M: another ann!
Nov 15 2015, 7:19 PM
Lisa C: Hi Mother, I hope your cold is better
Nov 15 2015, 7:19 PM
Ann: Hi Mother
Nov 15 2015, 7:19 PM
SrSusan (guest): not much better
:26 PM
Anne M: What’s been going on here in the chat. I see today’s topic is vows
Nov 15 2015, 7:26 PM
Judy K: Mother,is the retreat in preparation for your renewal of vows on Saturday?
Nov 15 2015, 7:26 PM
SrSusan (guest): Yes
Nov 15 2015, 7:26 PM
SrSusan (guest): A Jesuit is here
Nov 15 2015, 7:27 PM
Lisa C: Where is he from
Nov 15 2015, 7:27 PM
SrSusan (guest): He uses Scripture to relate to the vows
Nov 15 2015, 7:27 PM
SrSusan (guest): From Morristown Nj
Nov 15 2015, 7:27 PM
Carol Ann: Jesuit generally give such wonderful retreats
Nov 15 2015, 7:27 PM
Anne M: I watch sisters on youtube professing vows and !
Nov 15 2015, 7:27 PM
Lisa C: I just found out a doc I went to med school with and did residency with became a Jesuit
Nov 15 2015, 7:27 PM
SrSusan (guest): Used the Annunciation for obedience; rich young man for poverty
Nov 15 2015, 7:28 PM
Anne M: I cry. Such a beautiful thing to submit totally to the Lord.
Nov 15 2015, 7:28 PM
SrSusan (guest): I missed the talk on chastity because of the situation with the young woman
Nov 15 2015, 7:28 PM
Lisa C: He is at Xavier in NYC like 2 blocks from Margaret
7:30 PM
Judy K: Speaking of which– why renew vows? I think that we sometimes get so caught up in the minutiae of daily life that we can lose sight of our purpose and even of our commitment. We do well, them to renew the vows, giving them careful consideration as to what they mean and how we are living them. Appropriate times for renewal would be the Anniversary of Profession, a retreat or a day of recollection.
Nov 15 2015, 7:30 PM
SrSusan (guest): We need to re submit every day and in each situation
:30 PM
Lisa C: Mother, do you find it hard to do, or does it become natural
Nov 15 2015, 7:31 PM
Anne M: yes.
Nov 15 2015, 7:31 PM
Guest6028 (guest): HI Carol Ann , Judy , Ann , Lisa , Dawn , Anne , and Sr Susan !God bless You! Brian
Nov 15 2015, 7:31 PM
Judy K: Welcome aboard 6028 (Brian?)
Nov 15 2015, 7:31 PM
Carol Ann: A renewal can be a reminder, but it is also a celebration–we are so happy we did it that we want to do it again
Nov 15 2015, 7:31 PM
Lisa C: Hi Brian
Nov 15 2015, 7:31 PM
SrSusan (guest): Depends on the situation- if the Lord is challenging me to grow in an area I can struggle
Nov 15 2015, 7:31 PM
Anne M: Hi Brian
Nov 15 2015, 7:31 PM
Dawn L: hi Brian
:31 PM
Anne M: Hi Brian
Nov 15 2015, 7:31 PM
Dawn L: hi Brian
Nov 15 2015, 7:32 PM
SrSusan (guest): or become scrupulous
:33 PM
SrSusan (guest): I know a Sr who renews her vows every day after Holy CommunionPM
Lisa C: St T of L had scruples in her biography, but I am not sure exactly where the line is between trying to do the right thing and having scruples
Nov 15 2015, 7:33 PM
Dawn L: that is beautiful Mother
Nov 15 2015, 7:33 PM
Judy K: I actually renew mine each time I receive the Eucharist.
Nov 15 2015, 7:33 PM
Carol Ann: It is being touched by the Beloved. Touch me again please!
2015, 7:34 PM
Judy K: Oh yes! h yes!
Nov 15 2015, 7:35 PM
SrSusan (guest): Imagine if married couples renewed their vows every day
Nov 15 2015, 7:35 PM
Judy K: I think that scruples is more serious. A scrupulous person is constantly worrying as to whether the right thing has been done, about whether a sin has been forgiven,.
Nov 15 2015, 7:35 PM
SrSusan (guest): Maybe some do
6 PM
Anne M: The divorce rate would be much much lower sister6 PM
Dawn L: this a good idea for married people, to renew vows before God each morning.
Nov 15 2015, 7:37 PM
Carol Ann: Scrupulosity keeps us in chains. We’ve reoented, been forgiven, but we are still afraid
7:37 PM
Anne M: Sister, Is it ok for lay people who are not yet connected with an order to profess personal vows, or just make promises?
Nov 15 2015, 7:38 PM
SrSusan (guest): I think one can make private vows maybe before a priest
:39 PM
Dawn L: what a wonderful idea Mother, I didnt know this
Nov 15 2015, 7:39 PM
SrSusan (guest): Promises are ok too-I think we promise God lots of things at times
9 PM
Anne M: I wonder if my confessor/pastor would allow me to? :40 PM
Guest4955 (guest): Both.
Nov 15 2015, 7:40 PM
Judy K: I’m going to jump to question 3. Marriage is a commitment to one person only, as is the consecration of the religious. Each is committed to fidelity, the married person “for better or for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health” and the religious fidelity to chastity, poverty and obedience. Both commitments are made for life. Marriage entails a brief preparation (which I feel needs to be extended and expanded). The preparation for religious profession is an extended one.
Nov 15 2015, 7:41 PM
Ann: I’m going to ask my priest this week
Nov 15 2015, 7:41 PM
Carol Ann: Private vows are witnessed by the confessor or priest so that we are accountable to someone and can get help if we need it
Nov 15 2015, 7:41 PM
SrSusan (guest): The Church would make some kind of distinction- canonically- but God- He is God !
PM
Judy K: Marriage is a Sacrament. Religious Consecration is not a Sacrament, but I see it as an extension and expansion of the universal call to holiness which comes through Baptism and Confirmation. 2 PM
Ann: I agree, Judy. I too, believe that marriage preparation needs to be much more in-depth and expanded. PM
Judy K: I was told that a person in private vows does not have official status in the Church, and is not living the Consecrated Life. However, I kind of think that while not living the “Consecrated Life” per se, we are living a life of c
Nov 15 2015, 7:43 PM
Judy K: Consecration.
Nov 15 2015, 7:43 PM
Ann: It needs to be a deeper exploration of each person as an individual, then an examination of how the two might fit with each other, as a married couple.
PM
Guest6028 (guest): I was researching Sr Francis Xavier Cabrini and she personally wanted to be a missionary to China but the Pope asked her to go to New York City to help the Italian immigrants . She made a total commitment to do her best for our Lord Jesus Christ the rest of her life and it is incredible how God used her !!!
Nov 15 2015, 7:44 PM
Judy K: Married couples could certainly profit from an annual renewal of their marriage vows.
Nov 15 2015, 7:45 PM
Ann: yes
Nov 15 2015, 7:45 PM
Ann: I agree, Judy
Nov 15 2015, 7:45 PM
Guest6028 (guest): Amen Judy !
, 7:46 PM
SrSusan (guest): Maybe that is one way the parishes could help strengthen marriages- a Mass of renewal every year, 7:47 PM
SrSusan (guest): That would be public just like my annual renewal is publicPM
SrSusan (guest): I believe some secular institutes or perhaps 3rd orders make promises – like the Daughters of St Francis de sales7:49 PM
Guest6028 (guest): we have a culture that is all about the individual ! People have a fear of taking vows !God wants us to be totally committed too Him and too our spouses ! 49 PM
SrSusan (guest): Commitment is actually freeing
Nov 15 2015, 7:50 PM
SrSusan (guest): Have you experienced that?
Nov 15 2015, 7:50 PM
Guest6028 (guest): That is soo true Sr !!!
Nov 15 2015, 7:50 PM
Anne M: yes, sister, the Carmelites too
0 PM
Judy K: I could envision a marriage preparation program taking at least 6 months, so as to cover aspects of personal and human development, Catholic doctrine, spiritual development of each individual of the the couple, aspects of human sexuality including contraception and abortion and Church teaching about both, marriage as a Sacrament and the necessity of a Catholic marriage, impediments to a lawful marriage, annulments, and the preparation for the ceremony. 7:51 PM
SrSusan (guest): Should’nt this start when young folks start dating? , 7:51 PM
Judy K: Couples should be encouraged to make a good and sincere preparation for marriage, not just for the wedding.
Nov 15 2015, 7:51 PM
Lisa C: It should probably start before dating
52 PM
Judy K: It probably should start before dating begins, but not with the same intensity as proximate preparation for marriage. 3 PM
Guest4955 (guest): Not many people really develop spiritually before dating or marriage. I like the idea of an extended period or preparation.
Nov 15 2015, 7:53 PM
Carol Ann: I did make a promise as a postulantern with Carmel. I will be taking vows with BSCD after foration & after novitiate 5, 8:05 PM
Anne M: and for social work
Nov 15 2015, 7:53 PM
Dawn L: what is done in present time for marriage preparation?
5, 7:53 PM
Judy K: It depends on the parish and the diocese. The Pre-
Nov 15 2015, 7:54 PM
Lisa C: I think once someone has decided whom they will marry it is too late. They are in love and if the person is wrong for them they will not listen or learn. I really think it has to occur way before so they can discern what kind of person to marry.
Nov 15 2015, 7:54 PM
SrSusan (guest): We twach the Sacrament in 5th grade age appropriate- and later Pre Cana
M
Guest6028 (guest): I think that it would be helpful if older couples that were married for along time would mentor younger couples !
Nov 15 2015, 7:54 PM
Judy K: Cana is still in use. Engaged Encounter was popular some years ago, but I don’t know if it is still in use.
:56 PM
Lisa C: http://moralrevolution.com/date-a-man-long-enough/
Date A Man Long Enough : Moral Revolution
Nov 15 2015, 7:56 PM
SrSusan (guest): The will of God for one’s life too has to be sought
Nov 15 2015, 7:56 PM
Judy K: Perhaps as high school seniors, a marriage prep course could be given to help offset some of the pitfalls of choosing the right partner.
7 PM
Ann: Marriage Encounter was popular some years ago too. I’m not sure if that still exists though.
Nov 15 2015, 7:57 PM
SrSusan (guest): Lisa my computer is from school and the site is blocked!
58 PM
Anne M: Yes Lisa, same goes for divorcees planning a second marriage before seeking annulments. Seems like an after thought
Nov 15 2015, 7:58 PM
Lisa C: Mother, I will email it
Nov 15 2015, 7:58 PM
Judy K: And whether in high school or at a later, greater emphasis needs to be placed on marriage as a Sacrament. World Wide Marriage Encounter is still around, But I don’t know about Engaged Encounter.
:59 PM
Ann: Yes, I agree. Marriage needs to be emphasized as a Sacrament. Thank you, Judy. M
SrSusan (guest): Before I made religious vows I had never committed formally to anything- ecxept paying off my car I think:01 PM
SrSusan (guest): I am impressed with religious who go beyond the counsels to make other vows
Nov 15 2015, 8:01 PM
Guest4955 (guest): What other vows?
Nov 15 2015, 8:02 PM
Judy K: AS a pre-teen, I made a commitment as a Girl Scout. We did have Girl Scout Promise.
Nov 15 2015, 8:02 PM
SrSusan (guest): like- to do the most perfect thing in each situation
:02 PM
Guest4955 (guest): I like that idea! 8:03 PM
Lisa C: I think all the sacraments were commitments
Nov 15 2015, 8:03 PM
SrSusan (guest): Good thought
Nov 15 2015, 8:03 PM
Ann: Yes Lisa, I do too
Nov 15 2015, 8:03 PM
Judy K: The Sisters of Life take a fourth vow to protect and preserve the sanctity of human life. Nuns in monasteries frequently take a vow of stability (to remain in the same foundation for life).
Nov 15 2015, 8:03 PM
Dawn L: thats right Lisa, and Confirmation.
8:04 PM
Lisa C: Mother, you were probably committed to your education too
Nov 15 2015, 8:04 PM
Dawn L: as a nurse, we made a vow
Nov 15 2015, 8:04 PM
Anne M: “swearing in as a police officer”
Nov 15 2015, 8:04 PM
SrSusan (guest): Very interesting!
Nov 15 2015, 8:04 PM
Lisa C: Hipocratic oath and oath to be in the army
8:05 PM
Anne M: and for social work
Nov 15 2015, 8:05 PM
Judy K: The Sisters of Mercy of the Americas take a fourth vow of service (I am not sure of the current wording) but in the ’60s it was service to the poor,sick and ignorant.
Nov 15 2015, 8:06 PM
Lisa C: The pledge of allegence
8:06 PM
Lisa C: driving responsibly8:07 PM
Judy K: I thought of the Hippocratic Oath too, and the Oath of Office (President, Senators, etc.) the oath taken when testifying in a trial.
Nov 15 2015, 8:07 PM
Anne M: renewal of baptismal vows annually, and when I pray to Christ the King
Nov 15 2015, 8:07 PM
SrSusan (guest): You have all expanded my thinking!
, 8:07 PM
Guest4955 (guest): During Confirmation, the bishop asked us to take a vow to abstain from alcoh:08 PM
Lisa C: I had such a cute patient when I asked if she drank alcohol she said yes, I had Communion8:08 PM
Carol Ann: We take vows for everything it seems15, 8:09 PM
SrSusan (guest): Yes framed this way why do we say people are afraid of commitments? 09 PM
SrSusan (guest): Yes framed this way why do we say people are afraid of commitments?
Nov 15 2015, 8:09 PM
Lisa C: I think only some people are afraid of them, and they are only afraid of some of them
Nov 15 2015, 8:10 PM
Guest4955 (guest): Commitment to others seems so hard in modern life.
Nov 15 2015, 8:10 PM
SrSusan (guest): Maybe people dont realize how committed they really are
10 PM
Judy K: In my life, I have made three formal commitments: the Promise of the Association of Salesian Cooperators (to make the spirit of Don Bosco visible in our lives); the Solemn Resolution of Love of the Oblates of the Precious Blood (prayer and sacrifice for the sanctification and salvation of priests): and my private vows.
Nov 15 2015, 8:10 PM
Anne M: Yes, and with the child safety programs in the church, volunteers… sign agreements
1 PM
Carol Ann: A lot of these vows we are listing are only for a short period. You can also choose to stop being a doctor or policemsn. But n:12 PM
Lisa C: You can stop working, but you cannot stop being a doctor
Nov 15 2015, 8:12 PM
Carol Ann: Marriage and religious vows are supposed to be permanent
Nov 15 2015, 8:12 PM
SrSusan (guest): Ah life long commitments- maybe like Judy just wrote
Nov 15 2015, 8:12 PM
Judy K: I agree with Mother that the vows are freeing. I do not feel at all imprisoned by the vows, but encouraged to engage in a deeper spiritual life and to trust more in the Providence of God.
, 8:13 PM
Ann: Judy, that resonates with me too. 2015, 8:14 PM
Anne M: Baptismal vows are my most permanent, besides the personal promises I made (and hopefully will not cave on)
Nov 15 2015, 8:14 PM
Lisa C: Getting married forever and then getting an annulment is confusing
Nov 15 2015, 8:14 PM
Judy K: Definitely a life-long commitment that fills me with great joy.
Nov 15 2015, 8:15 PM
SrSusan (guest): For me I was just “floating ” thru life without a commitment- until I made one- that is how it felt
:14 PM
Anne M: Baptismal vows are my most permanent, besides the personal promises I made (and hopefully will not cave on)
Nov 15 2015, 8:14 PM
Lisa C: Getting married forever and then getting an annulment is confusing
Nov 15 2015, 8:14 PM
Judy K: Definitely a life-long commitment that fills me with great joy.
Nov 15 2015, 8:15 PM
SrSusan (guest): For me I was just “floating ” thru life without a commitment- until I made one- that is how it felt
Nov 15 2015, 8:15 PM
Judy K: An annulment does not end a marriage, it says that a valid marriage did not exist.
Nov 15 2015, 8:15 PM
Lisa C: Judy, you only know that in retrospect
Nov 15 2015, 8:16 PM
Lisa C: It does not nullify the marriage only the sacrement
, 8:16 PM
Judy K: What do I know in retrospect?
Nov 15 2015, 8:17 PM
Lisa C: You only know they marriage was not a sacrament in retrospect. You show up thinking it is forever
:17 PM
Lisa C: You live thinking it is forever too
Nov 15 2015, 8:17 PM
Judy K: Oh, you mean “you” and a general “you”, not me in particular.
9 PM
Anne M: Sister, everyone talks about “goals” in the world, not really vows. if we don’t meet the secular goals maybe we would seem to float, but really you made and renewed baptismal promises every year at Easter time.
Nov 15 2015, 8:19 PM
SrSusan (guest): I suppose one could annul religious vows too but mostly I hear about dispensations, not annulments
Nov 15 2015, 8:20 PM
SrSusan (guest): Yes Anne but probably at that time I was not as conscious of that for some reason
:19 PM
Anne M: Sister, everyone talks about “goals” in the world, not really vows. if we don’t meet the secular goals maybe we would seem to float, but really you made and renewed baptismal promises every year at Easter time.
Nov 15 2015, 8:19 PM
SrSusan (guest): I suppose one could annul religious vows too but mostly I hear about dispensations, not annulments
Nov 15 2015, 8:20 PM
SrSusan (guest): Yes Anne but probably at that time I was not as conscious of that for some reason
Nov 15 2015, 8:20 PM
Guest4955 (guest): The vows were valid and the person no longer wants to be under the vows. They then ask for a dispensation?
Nov 15 2015, 8:20 PM
Judy K: I have never heart of annulment of a vow, only dispensations from them.
Nov 15 2015, 8:21 PM
Anne M: Yes, I wasn’t either really until later
Nov 15 2015, 8:21 PM
Judy K: Heard of an annulment
8:22 PM
SrSusan (guest): This Sat our novice makes first vows
Nov 15 2015, 8:22 PM
SrSusan (guest): for 3 years
Nov 15 2015, 8:22 PM
Lisa C: Does she know her name yet
Nov 15 2015, 8:22 PM
Judy K: She must be so excited!
Nov 15 2015, 8:23 PM
Dawn L: beautiful!
Nov 15 2015, 8:23 PM
Ann: How wonderful! I will keep her and all of your community in my thoughts and prayers, for the joyful event!
Nov 15 2015, 8:23 PM
SrSusan (guest): No she doesn’t know it yet- her name she is in an 8 day retreat’
Nov 15 2015, 8:23 PM
Carol Ann: I can’t wait to make mine
Nov 15 2015, 8:23 PM
Anne M: I know a woman who left a monastery. She felt it was right for her. She’s married and a lay carmelite
Nov 15 2015, 8:23 PM
Guest6028 (guest): Vows can help God to focus us on the work and actions that He would like us to accomplish in this life ! They can help us to see clealy what God wants us to do next !
8:23 PM
Dawn L: she will be making first vows while you renew vows? at same time or mass?
Nov 15 2015, 8:23 PM
Lisa C: Is she excited
Nov 15 2015, 8:24 PM
Anne M: I keep trying to cross out my will and totally submit like Faustina did, but with much struggle. LOL
Nov 15 2015, 8:24 PM
SrSusan (guest): That’s right Dawn first time it ever happened that way
Nov 15 2015, 8:24 PM
SrSusan (guest): I think so- she’s in retraet right now
Nov 15 2015, 8:25 PM
Lisa C: Will her family be coming
Nov 15 2015, 8:25 PM
SrSusan (guest): Some will- from North Dakota
25 PM
Judy K: Wow, that’s quite a distance! PM
Dawn L: we will be nearing Advent, just a thought
Nov 15 2015, 8:29 PM
Guest4955 (guest): Your new sister?
Nov 15 2015, 8:29 PM
Ann: Yes, I too was thinking Advent
Nov 15 2015, 8:29 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, gratitude and patience
Nov 15 2015, 8:29 PM
SrSusan (guest): Ah yes- Christ the King too next week