- St. Francis de Sales mentions in the end that “such souls as I have described lose all the grace of their good deeds.” What does this teach us about the weight of sin and how it can ruin a lifetime of living virtuously?
- Why do you think that St. Francis emphasizes so heavily that we should be on guard against sin beyond meresly forsaking it, but by rooting out even the small things that can lead to sin?
- What does St. Francis mean when he talks about the person who is not committing sin but “is altogether bound with the affections thereof”? What does this teach us about the nature of virtue and purity? –
VisitationSiste: St. Francis de Sales mentions in the end that “such souls as I have described lose all the grace of their good deeds.” What does this teach us about the weight of sin and how it can ruin a lifetime of living virtuously?
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Mar 13 2016, 7:33 PM
Lisa C: Mortal sin separates us from God. If we are separated it does not matter what good we did before. There is no point if we no longer have God.
Carol Ann: I have a hard time discerning if this means that one unrepented sin pattern can lead to judgement:35 PM
Judy K: Souls who continue to look back fondly on the sins of the past are putting themselves in danger of being drawn back into sin. This can bring about a weakening of the resolve that was made opening the door to relapse. It is kind of like opening the door of the soul just a crack, but that crack is just enough for Satan to stick his foot in and maybe gain entry. the weight of the sin can cause one to lose the living of a virtuous life.
Mar 13 2016, 7:35 PM
Lisa C: I think judgement is regarding the penalty for sins. Even if we repent we still have to pay for them
2016, 7:36 PM
Carol Ann: I think I am more concerned with the eternal loss of God, not punishment necessarily. If a person has been living a virtuous life, commits one sin and then comes to personal judgement, would that not be more a case for purgatory? 2016, 7:37
Lisa C: Purgatory of penance before purgatory3
Carol Ann: I mean, the person clearly loves God and is trying to do the right thing but fel2016, 7:38 PM
Lisa C: I guess there is a difference between falling once in a while and keeping an affection for a pattern of sin
Mar 13 2016, 7:39 PM
Alice Lewis-Eckardt: yes its a scary thought to think all your good works are wiped away!
Mar 13 2016, 7:40 PM
Carol Ann: Clearly we are called to root out sin in all its forms, but we are also human and prone to weakness. This is what is giving me pause when we speak in absolutes
Lisa C: Alice, I think they come back again if we confess
Judy K: Looking back at past affections for sin, is like the Israelites longing for the flesh pots of Egypt as they were moving to the Promised Land. Keeping up looking can lead to loss of virtue and possibly to loss of relationship with God if mortal sin is involved.
Lisa C: well, confess and are sorry016, 7:41 PM
Carol Ann: Mother, what do you think?
VisitationSiste: With patterns of sin, ususaly it takes grace to break that not just will power
Ruth (guest): I’m trying to catch up.
Mar 13 2016, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: But our dispositions of sorrow help alot
2016, 7:44 PM
Carol Ann: So assuming we are doing what we can do, and not deliberately running after the sin, Jesus will do the rest?
Mar 13 2016, 7:45 PM
Lisa C: I think God would never with hold grace if we ask for it
Mar 13 2016, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes I think so
Mar 13 2016, 7:45 PM
Ruth (guest): I’ve asked for help from God to be punctual because lately it is extremely hard for me; but I keep on being a little bit late for almost everything.
Lisa C: I think Jesus wants us to try and to want to do the right thing, but understands when me make mistakes16,
VisitationSiste: We have to learn to let Jesus live in us
Carol Ann: So how does this thought fit in with the thought that one sin can ruin a virtuous life and send someone to hell?
Lisa C: Recognizing Jesus in us and in other people is amazing
Mar 13 2016, 7:48 PM
Judy K: I don’t think that one sin can ruin a virtuous. St. Francis is talking about holding affection for sinful things without sinning. this is dangerous because it weakens our intention.
Mar 13 2016, 7:48 PM
VisitationSiste: Mortal sin=total rejection of God and His mercy
Mar 13 2016, 7:48 PM
VisitationSiste: Is that what you mean
Carol Ann: I’m not sure what exactly I mean, though Judy just made a very interesting distinction for me that I had not seen before
Judy K: One mortal sin can ruin a virtuous life. But venial sins can be redeemed.
Mar 13 2016, 7:49 PM
Lisa C: Mother, they used to list sins that were mortal and sins that were venial and the mortal list had ones that did not mean you were intending to totally reject God. This new mercy is so confusing.
7:49 PM
Ruth (guest): Today our Pastor gave several “excuses” people frequently use for not going to confession often. One was that it is the same old sin that is confessed over and over again, even when there is a clear intention of overcoming it. It does not have to be a serious sin.
VisitationSiste: Yes I was taught that way too
3 2016, 7:50 PM
Lisa C: So are those sins not mortal anymore?
VisitationSiste: They are still mortal but there is more sensitivity to culpability
Lisa C: ?
VisitationSiste: accountability for the sin
7:51 PM
Lisa C: I know, but people do know they are wrong and do them anyway so how is it ok now and not before
Mar 13 2016, 7:51 PM
Judy K: Ruth, people who use that excuse, might, perhaps be more embarrassed to be confessing the same sin.
Mar 13 2016, 7:51 PM
Carol Ann: and avoid salt or sugar!
Guest8086 (guest): Ha Ha Judy no doubt about that ! Thanks everyone for prayers for Kairos mini retreat our topic was Grace ! Wonderful time of sharing for Men very very difficult time within prison ! Men were very inspired by Holy Spirit filled talks by team ! Thank You from bottom of my heart !!
Judy K: REmember the conditions for mortal sin–serious matter, sufficient reflection and full consent of the will.
Lisa C: People know they cannot have a church wedding or go to Communion but do it anyway. They have to know because they know the church says not to do it. They decide the church is not God or something.
Mar 13 2016, 7:53 PM
Ruth (guest): Mercy doesn’t mean that something that was seriously sinful before no longer is, it only means that no matter how serious the sin, if we turn to God — especially through the Sacrament of Penance — God will forgive. God IS MERCY. God IS LOVE.
16, 7:55 PM
Judy K: Lisa, such people without admitting it are doing their own will rather than accomplishing the will of God. 6, 7:55 PM
Lisa C: Yes, Judy
Mar 13 2016, 7:55 PM
Carol Ann: And we listen very carefully to SFDS and to Pope Francis when they tell us to repent and keep repenting. God will forgive us and show mercy when we ask, but we have to watch out we are not presumptious’
VisitationSiste: Yes presumption could be a temptation
Mar 13 2016, 7:57 PM
Amy Cochran: I think that with those sins that we continually do, we have to seriously look at the cross of Christ and try to remember that he suffered torment for those little sins also
VisitationSiste: But there is a big difference I think in the consciences of those who truly want to follow God and those who do so casually at best
57 PM
VisitationSiste: I think the emphasis on mercy now is to reach the “casuals”
Mar 13 2016, 7:58 PM
Lisa C: Maybe the only difference is grace
Mar 13 2016, 7:58 PM
Judy K: St. Francis speaks about rooting out small things. Even small things can lead to sin if they are hung on to, can create a chink in the armour of the resolution to avoid sin. It is not enough to eliminate the sin, but it is necessary to remove the “little” things that can lead to sin, because they are risk factors.
2016, 7:58 PM
Lisa C: Maybe the Pope is saying that it is by the grace of God that we want to try to be less casual
Mar 13 2016, 7:58 PM
Carol Ann: I too try to see my habitual failures nailed to the Cross with Jesus. He did carry those for me too
7:59 PM
Guest8086 (guest): God has given us His amazing Grace and given us the opportunity to live together with Him in this life and eternally . Why would we turn back to a life without God ! We are either with God through our Lord Jesus Christ or against God ! When we become lukewarm we must rush back to God !
Mar 13 2016, 7:59 PM
Lisa C: Maybe we do not deserve any real credit for anything good we do, because it is all grace, all God working in us
Mar 13 2016, 8:00 PM
Amy Cochran: I have one sin that I continually repeat, and I have been forcing myself to immediately go to confession for this venial sin. Confession does seem to awaken the lazy soul
Mar 13 2016, 8:00 PM
Judy K: The grace of God is always active in any attempt, decision or resolution to overcome sin. We cannot accomplish this without His grace.
, 8:00 PM
Carol Ann: well, we do have to cooperate with grace!
VisitationSiste: All good is from God, all sin is mine, some saint used to say that
Mar 13 2016, 8:01 PM
Judy K: Lisa, it is possible for us to refuse to cooperate with the grace of God.
Mar 13 2016, 8:01 PM
Amy Cochran: I know that is was His grace alone that brought me back to the church. sometimes it’s overwhelming when you think about it
16, 8:01 PM
Amy Cochran: I like that, Sister
Mar 13 2016, 8:01 PM
Guest8086 (guest): Amen Lisa ! We are unprofitable servants we must do what God wants us to do !
Lisa C: Judy, yes, maybe that lack of cooperation is affection for sin16, 8:02 PM
Judy K: And you know, I think that the attraction for sin will probably die 5 minutes after we d2016, 8:04 PM
VisitationSiste: St Therese always threw herself into the arms of God- it is CONFIDENCE in HIM that He so appreciates in us
Ruth (guest): through my consecration to Jesus though Mary, ALL the merits of my prayers and good works are offered to HIM by her, to be distributed wherever they are most needed. We CAN pray for ourselves and for certain others, but it is not our merit or our prayers that “count” — it is like uniting our YES to HERS and HERS made her co-redeptorist.
Mar 13 2016, 8:05 PM
Lisa C: I like the MOOC this week where we hear about Jesus putting His seal on us.
Mar 13 2016, 8:06 PM
Guest8086 (guest): Paul’s thorn in the flesh kept him attached to Christian Communities wherever he traveled ! Our Thorns also keep us attached to a Christian Community prevents us from isolating ! An isolated Christian is a paralyzed Christian !
Mary Roberta Viano: That’s the OSFS motto: Tenui nec…He has put his seal on us and will not let us go.
Mar 13 2016, 8:06 PM
Lisa C: Yes, that gives me great confidence, His seal on me
Judy K: On to question 3. A person who is not committing sin but continues to hold affection for such sinful acts, is putting himself in jeopardy. Such affections can lead to inner weakness and the possibility of falling into sin again. Out desire for, and our efforts to grow in virtue and purity are necessary if we are to eliminate sin completely from our lives.
6, 8:07 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: It’s our desire to be pure/perfect that makes us want to uproot every bit of sin from our lives.
Mar 13 2016, 8:07 PM
Carol Ann: I think he is speaking of habitual sin hear. like being on the “hamster wheel” of needless worry and just going round and round
Judy K: If one wishes to be an accomplished musician, he must spend many hours practicing to really enter into the character of the music, to improve his techniques and to eliminate bad playing habits such as letting wrists drop, not paying to tempo, or playing too softly or loudly. Just so virtue grows with attention and practice.
Mar 13 2016, 8:09 PM
Guest8086 (guest): Childlike Love for God and others !
Mar 13 2016, 8:09 PM
Judy K: Paying attention to tempp
Mar 13 2016, 8:09 PM
Judy K: tempo
Carol Ann: So we must be very careful what music we are actually practicing16,
Judy K: Yes indeed!
Mar 13 2016, 8:10 PM
Guest8086 (guest): Childlike Love removes temptation !
Mar 13 2016, 8:10 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: SFdS writes in a letter: “We should cast ourselves into God’s arms like a little child who in order to grow, is simply dependent on what its father provides day by day.”
Judy K: Gee Brian, I don’t know about that. Childlike love moves us to resist temptation, but I fear that temptation will always appearPM
Mary Roberta Viano: and he adds: We must take all the care which God wishes us to take about perfecting ourselves and yest leave the care of arriving at perfection entirely to Him.”
Mar 13 2016, 8:12 PM
Guest8086 (guest): The widow who gave everything to God demonstrated childlike Love for God ! She knew God would take care of her ! Awesome Faith !!!
Mar 13 2016, 8:12 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: yet
Mar 13 2016, 8:12 PM
Judy K: In fact temptation may well be directed at removing that childlike love from us,
Mar 13 2016, 8:13 PM
Guest8086 (guest): Amen Judy !
6, 8:14 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, childlike love tells us our parent will always love us when we turn back
Mar 13 2016, 8:14 PM
Ruth (guest): And I have a problem with it because my own experience of my father and the experiences of many of my patients have been, to put it mildly, less than perfect. God’s love is perfect. So it is far more important to cast my cares upon him than it is for me to count on ANY human.
Mar 13 2016, 8:14 PM
VisitationSiste: That’s why the Gospels show us how Jesus resisted temptation
Guest8086 (guest): Every form of pride attacks our childlike Love for God and others !
Mar 13 2016, 8:15 PM
Judy K: Satan really hates childlike love, and indeed any true love and wants us to give up loving. And what does God want? Love one another as I have loved you.
Mary Roberta Viano: right, Ruth, as the Psalm says – depend on neither men, nor princes!
016, 8:16 PM
Lisa C: but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea
Mar 13 2016, 8:16 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: I like these words of SFdS’s: “To advance well we must apply ourselves to make good way on the road nearest to us and to do the first day’s journey. Let us not busy ourselves about the last but work out the first.”
Lisa C: Matt 18:6
Lisa C: I think this is why the fallen angels will not be forgiven.
Judy K: And indeed to take one day at a time. We cannot make the entire journey at once. We only get one minute at a time and so we must travel with that in mind.
Mar 13 2016, 8:18 PM
Carol Ann: and as we grow closer to God those sins we have been closeting just get uglier and heavier until we ourselves want them out
Mar 13 2016, 8:18 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: SFdS wants his daughters and his directees to have hearts which are “simple, frank, and sincere.”
Ruth (guest): One foot in front of the other. If mountain climbing, one place to put your foot down securely. I was amazed when, planning to just sit it out til the rest of the group came back, IF it became too demanding (I’d had lung surgery), I found myself on top of a mountain in the Alps! There was an important lesson in that experience.
Mar 13 2016, 8:19 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Yes, the priest today talked about how much he loves being able to show God’s mercy to penitents in Confession, esp. those who have been carrying heavy loads of sin for a long time.
6, 8:19 PM
Carol Ann: That’s amazing Ruth
Mary Roberta Viano: That’s what one of our sisters (now deceased) used to always say when someone asked how she was: “I’m just putting one foot in front of the other.”
Mar 13 2016, 8:20 PM
Guest8086 (guest): Remember when we were little how quickly we would forgive others and love others ! God wants us to return to that Childlike Love =Grace !
016, 8:20 PM
Judy K: He is reflecting Jesus Who welcomed sinners and ate with them and Who said that there is more joy in Heaven over one sinner who repents than over 99 righteous people who have no need of repentence. 16, 8:21 PM
Ruth (guest): Actually, having a safe place to put your hands was important, climbing up “chimneys” too, but it was always possible. , 8:21 PM
Carol Ann: Yes Brian, we are like that until the first person says we should demand something back from the person who hurt us, instead of just being happy we have the person again2016, 8:22 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: It is so freeing, don’t you think, to let go of sin and start over fresh. I didn’t have that sense of freedom without Confession when I was a protestant. 016, 8:22 PM
Amy Cochran: Forgiveness of the person who has hurt you but is not repentant is very difficult16, 8:23 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: True, Amy, but when that happens to me, I know it’s my pride holding me back. 3 2016, 8:24 PM
Amy Cochran: you are right, but when the hurt is a very deep hurt not just a casual offense, it becomes a great act of will to say I forgive16, 8:24 PM
Judy K: How awesome is the mercy of God Who welcomes into His arms when we place our sins at His feet with a desire to reform our lives. And when we look at the crucifix, we know for sure that His mercy is waiting for us.
Mar 13 2016, 8:24 PM
Guest8086 (guest): Things pile up confession removes the baggage that ties us down from Loving God and others !
Mary Roberta Viano: As SFdS points out: “It is certain that while we are encompassed by this heavy and corruptible body, there is always something, I know not what, lacking in us.”
Mar 13 2016, 8:25 PM
VisitationSiste: The Will of God is in every situation, someplace. Doing all for His Will helps in all difficulties, even in forgiveness if our first motive is always to do His Will
Mar 13 2016, 8:25 PM
Ruth (guest): Yes, Amy, and I do not think it was easier for me as a child. Sometimes I think I “forgave” because of NEED more than a clear “childlike love.”
Mar 13 2016, 8:25 PM
Amy Cochran: yes, frequent confession really helps. and true forgiveness can start out by a true act of the will, and with frequent confession, it will go from the brain to the heart
016, 8:26 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: That’s why I love Rembrandt’s painting of the Prodigal Son – such gentle love expressed by the Father! 16, 8:26 PM
Ruth (guest): Often the penances are so short and simple.
Guest8086 (guest): Beautiful
Judy K: And that is why we have this wonderful season of Lent, to strengthen our resolve and to root out sin.
Ruth (guest): One priest replied to a serious sinner who just came back, “But I will be doing penance for you for months.
Mary Roberta Viano: Right, Ruth, but your need was a need to continue the flow of love, not have it blocked.
Ruth (guest): Maybe that is it, Sr. Mary Roberta. But I remember feeling deeply the injustice of some punishments.
Mar 13 2016, 8:28 PM
Lisa C: Brian I think He already saved all of them and He wants us to just love them like He does.
Ruth (guest): Or just confusion.
Mar 13 2016, 8:28 PM
Judy K: And there is the need for redemptive suffering, offering our sufferings for the redemption of others.
Mar 13 2016, 8:29 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: I think what is often the attraction in religious communities (it was for me) is that childlikeness of the sisters and their purity.
Ruth (guest): But you are right, Brian, that is why we are called to do penances even when it is not, specifically for our own sins.
Mar 13 2016, 8:30 PM
Lisa C: Jesus did everything, the only thing He left for us is to show people who do not know that He loves them.
Mary Roberta Viano: their childlike innocence in their deep desire to come closer to God
Judy K: I think that joy and enthusiasm exhibited by Sisters is also very attractive
Mary Roberta Viano: yes, definitely joy, but too often that can be silliness, rather than deep joy
Mar 13 2016, 8:31 PM
Ruth (guest): Sometimes loving a person well means doing a kind of penance, because some people are not very likable, or the service they need and you are able to provide is difficult and irksome.
Guest8086 (guest): Soo many are living without Jesus Christ in their lives we pass them everyday ! Jesus wants us to keep shining even in the greatest darkness ! One candle can light up a whole room !
Lisa C: Yes, Ruth, I am not saying it is always easy to love.
Mar 13 2016, 8:32 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: I guess I’m most drawn to quiet, rather than raucous, joy – but that’s just me.
Mar 13 2016, 8:32 PM
Carol Ann: I think many of us here prefer the quiet joy too, Sister
Mary Roberta Viano: That’s the Christophers: Better to light one candle than to curse the dark.
Guest8086 (guest): Amen Sister !
Mar 13 2016, 8:33 PM
Judy K: It is just that quiet joy that shines in the eyes of the Sisters of Life whom I know that is so attractive. They glow with love, joy and devotion.
Mar 13 2016, 8:34 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Well, I’m off to get breakfast ready for the sisters, which I hope will bring them some joy – in its simpicity!
Mar 13 2016, 8:34 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Prayers for you as we move toward Holy Week!
Mar 13 2016, 8:34 PM
Ruth (guest): And there is a kind of deep joy in knowing the Lord that can exist side-by-side with or simultaneously at a deeper level suffering, pain, even confusion, because you are clear about what matters most, staying in God’s grace.
Guest8086 (guest): Have a Blessed week everyone ! Keep Shining ! God Love You ! Brian
Mar 13 2016, 8:35 PM
Lisa C: and also with you Mother
Mar 13 2016, 8:36 PM
Carol Ann: And with you! I can’t believe the hour is gone already
Mar 13 2016, 8:36 PM
Lisa C: God be praised!
Ruth (guest): And with you, Sister Susan Marie.
Judy K: Let us continue to strive to win this Lenten race and cross the finish line true winners in the life of the Spirit.
Carol Ann: Have a blessed week!