Sun chat July 3:
How can you find encouragement and purpose when going through a “desert” time of prayer?
Do you find consolation in the Biblical prayer using Jacob’s words: “He will not let Thee go, except Thou bless me”? Why or why not?
What are your methods for getting through those time when your relationship with God seems less than ideal?
Carol Ann: Question 1: Isaiah 55:11-12
Carol Ann: Yes. There is a wonderful little song with it I found on youtube, the tune is simple and happy and I hum it all the time
Jul 3 2016, 7:33 PM
Lisa C: How can you find encouragement and purpose when going through a “desert” time of prayer? I just keep going and know that it will change. I realize that God is faithful and maybe it is me that needs to pay more attention to Him
, 7:33 PM
Dawn L: thats beautiful
Jul 3 2016, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: In a way being in a monastery is like being in a desert, and the oasis is the times of prayer when one has consolation
6 PM
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy) When in a desert time of prayer, I find encouragement in remembering those times when I felt a special touch of the Lord upon, a time when I was truly awakened to His presence, or when I had a deep awareness of His love.
Jul 3 2016, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: If dryness in prayer goes on a long time faith is the rock
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy) Perseverance in prayer is important whether in dryness or consolation 8 PM
Carol Ann: If you search for Is 55:11-12 on youtube, it’s the video made by Prepare For Departure PM
Dawn L: Im going to look for it! , 7:39 PM
VisitationSiste: Encouragement can be “caught” from others too who are having powerful spiritual experiences
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy) I recall a time when a priest sort of chastized me for “seeking the consolations of God, rather than the God of consolations.” I guess that is something that we have to be careful of in prayer.
Jul 3 2016, 7:41 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, that warning is a constant in all the mystics I have read (not that i’ve read them all!)
Jul 3 2016, 7:41 PM
Michelle P Olivier: Yes, I believe St. Theresa of Avila said a similar thing. That we should not be seeking consolation in prayer
2 PM
Ruth (guest): Judy, that’s a good idea. And sometimes journaling — and looking at old journals helps some.
Jul 3 2016, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes we seek God Himself and mostly at least for me in pure faith
7:43 PM
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy) Aren’t there times when we truly need consolation from God because of where we are in life?
Jul 3 2016, 7:44 PM
Michelle P Olivier: Not to confuse things too much, but consolation or “good feelings” may not always be from God
Jul 3 2016, 7:44 PM
Ruth (guest): Carol Ann said it was a song.
Jul 3 2016, 7:44 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, but we are supposed to let Him say when those are
Jul 3 2016, 7:44 PM
Michelle P Olivier: Yes, we need consolation. That is why journaling is good. When we come upon those times of desolation we should look back on our experiences of consolation.
46 PM
Dawn L: During these times, or not, I read spiritual books, saints, or scripture, listen to and pray a rosary. even when it feels very dry, I know He is there
Jul 3 2016, 7:46 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, I found a little tune on youtube for Isaiah 55:11-12, a verse that sustains me if prayer is in a desert stage
Lisa C: Jacob said he would not let go unless God blessed him. That is like asking for consolation. I think we know that when we give up, and just let God lead we will receive consolation no matter how hard the battle. , 7:47 PM
Lisa C: Jacob was wrestling with God, but he did not know it. He though he was wrestling with a man, maybe himself, anyway he was fighting God by not trusting Him.
Jul 3 2016, 7:48 PM
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy) Question 2 left me totally high and dry. I am not familiar with this prayer and am unable to locate it in the Bible, even with the help of a Concordance. And taken out of context, as it is, its meaning remains hidden. So I find neither consolation or desolation.
Jul 3 2016, 7:48 PM
Ruth (guest): I’ve had long periods of time when I was without consolation in prayer. I’m not sure it was “Faith” that kept me going. Can you call it “Faith” when it is simply a belief in the right relationship between creature and creator — when I am the creature – thinking, sentiant and in need of a relationship with my Maker and Redeemer.
Jul 3 2016, 7:48 PM
Dawn L: I write letters to God sometimes
Dawn L: or will say, Lord I am lost and I do not know where I am going…
Jul 3 2016, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: The Oblates of St Francis de Sales motto is something like that in latin- tenuinec dimiti or close to it- meaning He hAS ME AND WILL NOT LET ME GO
50 PM
Carol Ann: Amen!
Jul 3 2016, 7:51 PM
Lisa C: God still blessed Jacob after the fight with him. God was pleased, because Jacob kept his faith in spite of struggling with God.
Jul 3 2016, 7:51 PM
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy) FAith and hope can be very close. For example, when we are consistently in some kind of trouble or spiritual, we believe, or hope that the Lord will help us. We also believe, and hope that He is is there whether we can feel, or hear Him or not.
2 PM
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy) that should be spiritual dryness
Jul 3 2016, 7:52 PM
Ruth (guest): I like that Sr. Susan.
Jul 3 2016, 7:52 PM
Ruth (guest): There is a saying in German — I think meant for a married couple; I’ll translate:
, 7:53 PM
Ruth (guest): We BELONG to ONE ANOTHER 16, 7:53 PM
Ruth (guest): I apply it to my relationship with the Triune God.
Jul 3 2016, 7:53 PM
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy) Does anyone know the exact Scripture reference for that quotation?
:53 PM
Lisa C: Genesis Chapter 32
Jul 3 2016, 7:54 PM
Guest8970 (guest): Thanks, Lisa!
Jul 3 2016, 7:54 PM
Ruth (guest): Is that the one about Jacob wrestling with God?
Jul 3 2016, 7:54 PM
Lisa C: Yes
Jul 3 2016, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: Genesis 32:26–29, English Standard Ver
Jul 3 2016, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: check that and see
, 7:55 PM
Ruth (guest): Isn’t that story the origin of the Jewish custom, at the Seder meal of having a shank bone on the platter?
Jul 3 2016, 7:56 PM
Carol Ann: Oh, I think you’Re right
3 2016, 7:56 PM
Ruth (guest): You people are amazing! I find it hard to just keep up. I have to do my research before or after. Multitasking is no longer an option, if it ever was.
Jul 3 2016, 7:56 PM
Dawn L: viewers, we are talking about Perseverence In Prayer
Jul 3 2016, 7:57 PM
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy)I don’t know about that, but I am sure that it symbolizes the Paschal Lamb
:58 PM
VisitationSiste: Sr Maria Margit Bogner
Jul 3 2016, 7:59 PM
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy) May we, all of us, never let go of Him.
Jul 3 2016, 7:59 PM
Lisa C: If we stay in His Sacred Heart we will not fall out
Jul 3 2016, 7:59 PM
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy) Indeed, let us cling to Him for dear life.
Jul 3 2016, 7:59 PM
Carol Ann: Is Sr Maria Margit the one who also had revelations like Sr Faustina’s?
Jul 3 2016, 7:59 PM
Ruth (guest): I’m not sure about that, Sister. I’ve seen too many people in desperation. But I have a now funny story about one time when I was close . . .
, 8:00 PM
Dawn L: I believe it is always God who desires us and seeks us out
Jul 3 2016, 8:00 PM
VisitationSiste: http://visitationspirit.org/2013/11/a-life-of-venerable-sister-maria-margit-bogner-vhm/
A Life of Venerable Sister Maria Margit Bogner VHM | Visitation Spirit
Jul 3 2016, 8:00 PM
VisitationSiste: Not exactly revelations
Jul 3 2016, 8:01 PM
Ruth (guest): It was the time I (accidentally!) broke into a locked Carmel court yard that led to the open chapel.
1 PM
Dawn L: thank you for link Sr!
Jul 3 2016, 8:01 PM
Ruth (guest): Dawn, that reminds me of Hound of Heaven.
Jul 3 2016, 8:01 PM
Lisa C: Ruth, how?
Jul 3 2016, 8:01 PM
VisitationSiste: She had extraordianary grace
:04 PM
Dawn L: Hound of Heaven …sounds familiar, but I don’t know it
Jul 3 2016, 8:05 PM
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy) Dawn, if you pray the Liturgy of the Hours, it is in the back of Christian Prayer.
5 PM
Carol Ann: I seem to remember that came from a literary classic, but I can’t think which one
Jul 3 2016, 8:05 PM
Michelle P Olivier: I think the Hound of Heaven was someone avoiding God, not in desolation
Jul 3 2016, 8:05 PM
VisitationSiste: Francis Thompson wrote it
Michelle P Olivier: The person was fleeing from God
Jul 3 2016, 8:06 PM
Ruth (guest): I had had the worst time of my life at a so-called Ignatian Retreat — ten days. I could not explain what happened to me. It was clearly NOT from the Lord. I drew a picture when I got home: a stump with branches grafted to it. The stump was Jesus. The branches me and other believers. There was a HUGE AX — the retreat director — written on the handle was “GO TO JESUS” and it was threatening to cut off the living branches attached to the Crusified one.
Jul 3 2016, 8:06 PM
Dawn L: I pray Hrs on my mobile, which is not the same as the books.will look it up
Jul 3 2016, 8:07 PM
Carol Ann: Oh my Ruth!
Jul 3 2016, 8:07 PM
Ruth (guest): I literally FELT suicidal. But I CHOSE LIFE. I remembered that St. Theresa of Avila when she needed a certain grace boldly told God, “I will not leave this place until you give me that Grace.
Jul 3 2016, 8:08 PM
Carol Ann: Googled it. FRANCIS Thompson did write the poem
Ruth (guest): I was in medical school at the time, but I think it was between semesters. I lived in Munich. I must have known about the Carmel at Dachau (no longer there; another story. I made up my mind to go on a “pilgrimage” to the Dachau Carmel. Chapel at the end of the Concentration Camp row where the barracks were, just beyond the remains of the ovens. I knew it was a Holy Place, where the sisters prayed the Office throughout the day.
0 PM
VisitationSiste: Emergency got to go see Not here for 2 weeks going to France
Jul 3 2016, 8:11 PM
Carol Ann: Safe travels!
Jul 3 2016, 8:11 PM
Guest8970 (guest): (Judy) Peace be with you, Sister!
Jul 3 2016, 8:11 PM
Ruth (guest): Yes Judy,her relationship with God was REAL.
Jul 3 2016, 8:11 PM
Dawn L: Thank you Sr, prayers on your journey!
Jul 3 2016, 8:12 PM
Ruth (guest): Have a wonderful visit Sister!
Jul 3 2016, 8:13 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Sr. Mary Roberta
Jul 3 2016, 8:13 PM
Dawn L: whom are you speaking of Judy?
Jul 3 2016, 8:13 PM
Ruth (guest): Well, I went fasting on just water, by suburban train. It was a cold, rainy day and about a 3/4 hour walk from the Dachau train station to the KZ and the Monastery. I got there too early. The gate was locked.
Jul 3 2016, 8:14 PM
Dawn L: oh, St Teresa!
Jul 3 2016, 8:14 PM
Ruth (guest): Judy is talking about St. Theresa of Avila/
Jul 3 2016, 8:14 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Hello! Looks like I just missed Mother…our evening recreations get longer and longer…
Jul 3 2016, 8:14 PM
Guest5960 (guest): It’s Judy. Somehow cut myself out of the chat. I had to get a new number.
Mary Roberta Viano: So you’ve been talking about dryness in prayer…the Intro piece…?
Jul 3 2016, 8:16 PM
Guest5960 (guest): (Judy) When my relationship with God seems less than ideal, I implore Him to remove from me any obstacles to this relationship and beg Him to restore the relationship to its former state.
Jul 3 2016, 8:16 PM
Guest5960 (guest): (Judy) Hi Sister Mary Roberta, and yes.
Jul 3 2016, 8:18 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: As a Catholic convert, I loved simply being able to sit before Our Eucharistic Lord in the Tabernacle. What a privilege and consolation!
Jul 3 2016, 8:18 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: I didn’t necessarily need to say anything – what a change from my Protestant upbringing!
Jul 3 2016, 8:18 PM
Ruth (guest): A big iron gate! I’d walked all the way through the KZ (Concentration Camp). I was wearing block healed shoes and a winter parker. Had my water bottle and my Bible in a little rucksack. I felt like I couldn’t pray, although I wanted to. All I could do was BE where I knew He was especially PRESENT — where others prayed.
Jul 3 2016, 8:19 PM
Guest5960 (guest): (Judy) Consecrated men and women are so blessed to have the Blessed Sacrament under the same roof with them.
Jul 3 2016, 8:19 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: So true! It’s just across the hall from my bedroom!
Jul 3 2016, 8:20 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: HE is just across the hall!
:20 PM
Carol Ann: Ruth, that’s amazing. Places like that have no words
Jul 3 2016, 8:20 PM
Guest5960 (guest): (Judy) Wow, that must be wonderful if you are have difficulty sleeping.
Jul 3 2016, 8:20 PM
Ruth (guest): And I was locked out. An image flashed through my mind Horrible! of taking off my belt and hanging myself on the gate. I didn’t want to do it, but felt the urge. It scared me. I fell against the gate crying. It sprung open!
PM
Mary Roberta Viano: As a Prebyterian, I never understood that I should/could actually LISTEN to Our Lord: I thought I needed to keep continually talking! PM
Mary Roberta Viano: and now, as SFdS says, I’m simply “satisfied with the privilege of being in His Presence and seen of Him.”
Jul 3 2016, 8:23 PM
Ruth (guest): It had been locked to itself, but the piece that goes into the ground must not have been working properly. I asked myself, What now? I could get arrested for breaking in! But the nuns would want to welcome me, I thought. So I popped the broken gate back closed, and went and sat in the back of the chapel. I sat there all day.
Jul 3 2016, 8:23 PM
Guest5960 (guest): (Judy) Some time ago, I became tired of using works in prayer and all I wanted was to sit quietly in His presence and love Him.
Jul 3 2016, 8:23 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: and I also like Jacob’s presumption: “I will not let thee go, except thou bless me!”
Jul 3 2016, 8:23 PM
Guest5960 (guest): Using words
Jul 3 2016, 8:23 PM
Ruth (guest): Around ten AM I heard a locksmith working on the gate. No one said a word to me.
Jul 3 2016, 8:23 PM
Carol Ann: Did no one find you Ruth?
16, 8:24 PM
Guest5960 (guest): (Judy) You said this was a dream, right, Ruth?
Jul 3 2016, 8:24 PM
Ruth (guest): They could see me, I think, through the choir where they prayed. But I was in the part of the chapel normally open to the public.
Jul 3 2016, 8:25 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: now that would be a sign to us of a real vocation to our contemplative life!
Jul 3 2016, 8:25 PM
Ruth (guest): No Judy, it really happened. And after dark I took a train back home to sleep and returned the next day, still fasting on water alone, but arriving late enough to find the gate open this time.
Jul 3 2016, 8:25 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: if we found someone in our chapel before the Tabernacle all day!
5 PM
Guest5960 (guest): (Judy) that is quite a story!!!
Jul 3 2016, 8:27 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: God be praised for allowing you to do that, Ruth!
Jul 3 2016, 8:27 PM
Dawn L: Ruth , this happened after the Ignatian retreat experience? Yes, Sr I would think so!
Jul 3 2016, 8:27 PM
Ruth (guest): I sat all day the second day. Some of the prayers seemed to me to be specially for me although I knew they were the regular Office prayers. Something in me was changing. I was healing.
Jul 3 2016, 8:27 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: before the Great Healer!
Jul 3 2016, 8:27 PM
Ruth (guest): After dark, I moved closer to the Tabernacle and to the one candle that was burning.
Jul 3 2016, 8:27 PM
Carol Ann: When He calls, and we run after Him…some calls are extraordinary
Jul 3 2016, 8:28 PM
Ruth (guest): A Nun came in and lit every single candle in a huge candelabra in front of me!
Jul 3 2016, 8:28 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: how sweet!
Jul 3 2016, 8:28 PM
Guest5960 (guest): (Judy) I hope that that symbolized that the Light of the World had made Himself present to you.
30 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: I esp. like SFdS comment that “if Our Lord does not vouchsafe any favors (as we sit before Him), but makes as though He saw us not, as though we were not in His Presence, nevertheless we must not quit it, but on the contrary we must remain calmly and devoutly before Him…”
Jul 3 2016, 8:30 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: just like the Canaanite woman, who was happy with the crumbs from Our Lord’s table
Jul 3 2016, 8:30 PM
Carol Ann: Thy will be done, not mine, O Lord
Jul 3 2016, 8:31 PM
Guest5960 (guest): (Judy) He is supporting my thought that we must persevere in prayer at all times.
Jul 3 2016, 8:31 PM
Ruth (guest): I think I cried. I had not even been able to cry, I was soo, soo, distressed by whatever it was that happened on that retreat. I have a few ideas, now; and I would not NOW let that happen to me. I was sort of “tearing myself open” on the retreat to try to cooperate with the graces I imagined it would provide.
Jul 3 2016, 8:31 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: perfect, Ruth!
PM
Guest5960 (guest): (Judy) I hope that your retreat experiences since that time have been a great improvement.
Jul 3 2016, 8:32 PM
Ruth (guest): Nowadays I would trust my “instincts” more and just leave early when I realized there was something EVIL happening in the name of Jesus.
Jul 3 2016, 8:32 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Like you, I need to be ever more open and vulnerable before Our Lord, so He can fill me with His graces, and use me as an instrument of His grace.
4 PM
Carol Ann: May we all be more and more open
Jul 3 2016, 8:34 PM
Dawn L: thank you for sharing your experiences Ruth
Jul 3 2016, 8:34 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Well, time to make use of His grace to prepare breakfast and music for my sisters tomorrow! Blessed and safe 4th! If Mother is away the next two Sundays, I guess we can still chat…
5 PM
Guest5960 (guest): (Judy) I must go everyone. Someone is waiting for a call-back from me. Have a joyous Fourth. And please remember that freedom is not free. Also let us all persevere in prayer, no matter how it is going.
Jul 3 2016, 8:35 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Good night and prayers for you!
Jul 3 2016, 8:35 PM
Lisa C: + God Bless
Jul 3 2016, 8:35 PM
Dawn L: Thank you Sr, and everyone. we are already free…
Jul 3 2016, 8:36 PM
Carol Ann: God bless us all! Have a happy holiday!