Questions to Ponder: Today we hear about the importance of self esteem – not a quality that St. Francis talks about here. Many people in the world today would say that abjection, as St. Francis describes it, tears down self esteem. Is this true? What role does humility have in all of this? Connected with our discussion from last week regarding Mary’s humility in the Magnificat, we see that St. Francis addresses this. Essentially he states that what makes Mary “great” is the recognition of God at work

 

Sister Susan Marie: What can this teach us about pride and power in human nature/ achievements versus humility and docility to the Holy Spirit? How might this teach us that being prideful is actually delusional, because when one is prideful, one is taking pride in such a lowly nature, but when one is humble, one rejoices in the power of God in us? In short, pride equals trust in man’s power, humility equals trust in God’s power. In other words, there is an irony in pride, because God’s power is the true power.How can we choose

 

Sister Susan Marie: How can we choose abjections based on our individual vocation?

 

Carol Ann: Hello Everyone! I cannot be here tonight and want to wish you a blessed week.

Oct 30 2016, 2:33 PM

Carol Ann: In answer to question 1, I feel that our self esteem should be based on what God thinks of us. The worldly self esteem we read about all the time is based on what others think of us and how to overcome their negative opinions, this will never bring peace because it is based on our own thoughts and feekings, which are transitory. Our focus is on ourself and not on God where it belongs. St, Francis would not recognize this as correct thinking!

 

SRSusan (guest): WE always learned that abjections are our limitations and we are to embrace them 7 PM

Lisa C: I do not think abjection tears down self esteem. Not abjection the way StFdS describes it. Low self esteem is different. I think it is a result of abuse and it is a false sense of self. :28 PM

Lisa C: Abjection and humility are just a true sense of how we really are and how we need God. 9 PM

SRSusan (guest): Low self esteem would mean we do not embrace our limitations 16, 7:29 PM

Lisa C: I think low self esteem is thinking we have more limitations than we really do , 7:30 PM

Lisa C: It is more like hopelessness associated with depression

Oct 30 2016, 7:30 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) Does abjection tear down self-esteem? Abjection might tear down self-esteem in a person of a melancholic or sensitive disposition, but not necessarily. In one who recognizes abjection as an aspect of human nature, self-esteem is not torn down because the individual sees it as an opportunity to give glory to God and to esteem the neighbor more highly than self. It is in this that humility rests.

7:31 PM

SRSusan (guest): We let God touch us and as St Therese said let Him carry us in His arms 32 PM

Lisa C: I think of God the Father as very big, I would only fit in His hand 7:33 PM

Lisa C: Jesus is more our size

Oct 30 2016, 7:33 PM

SRSusan (guest): Humility is seeing things as they are and that we need God for everything Our abjections may occur when we are not relying on Him

 

35 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) Indeed, Mother. I have always trouble relating to God as Father.

Oct 30 2016, 7:35 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) Hi ?Ruth.

Oct 30 2016, 7:36 PM

Dawn L: Hi Ruth

Oct 30 2016, 7:36 PM

Ruth (guest): Hi Everyone. Looks like you’ve done a lot already. I want to read it, and may have to jump up for a few minutes to put on something warmer. Ground floor where computer is is still not heated. pride equals trust in man’s power, humility equals trust in God’s power 7:44 PM

Ruth (guest): I think I have a hard time accepting that I am not as efficient as I was before the last triple concussion. It is as if I have had to get to know the “new” (even more “broken”)

Oct 30 2016, 7:45 PM

Ruth (guest): Ruth all over again.

Oct 30 2016, 7:45 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) One who is proud tends to rely on self and discounts the necessity of depending on God in all things. In humility, the person recognizes dependence on God knowing that without God he can do nothing and that he can do all things in Christ Who strengthens him.

:46 PM

Ruth (guest): I’ve “fought” to regain some capacities that are probably gone forever — but I would not have known that UNLESS I had TRIED very hard.

Oct 30 2016, 7:46 PM

Lisa C: Isn’t original sin really about pride and not being humble, thinking that we can be like God and not need God

:46 PM

Ruth (guest): I’ve “fought” to regain some capacities that are probably gone forever — but I would not have known that UNLESS I had TRIED very hard.

Oct 30 2016, 7:46 PM

 

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) The one who is proud also tends to regard himself as better than others. The humble one regards others as better than he.

Oct 30 2016, 7:49 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) There is an element of pride in original sin, but I think it is more that Adam and Eve wanted to determine for themselves what is right and wrong. They ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Oct 30 2016, 7:49 PM

Lisa C: That seems to boil down to not needing to obey God and submit to His law of right and wrong

Oct 30 2016, 7:49 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) the other aspect of original sin is disobedience.

Oct 30 2016, 7:51 PM

Guest2590 (guest): Jesus reminded us of that today when he asked the tax collector to come down from the tree and have him over for dinner that was unheard of to do such a thing ! True Love !

Oct 30 2016, 7:52 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) The element of deciding for self what is right and wrong more so than not submitting to God. One can disobey but not want to decide for self right from wrong.

Oct 30 2016, 7:52 PM

Lisa C: When Adam and Eve were in the Garden of Eden and walked around with God, the whole Trinity existed, but what did God look like to them?

Oct 30 2016, 7:52 PM

Ruth (guest): Good observation, Judy. I’ve been thinking of ABJECTION as being sort’a like a vessel — a vase or a pot — that is open toward the top — heavenward. I’ve been that a long time, even when I had to do for myself so much that others have concrete, practical help with, but now, since multiple and various tramae, I’ve felt like “damaged goods.” But God is so abundant in his LOVE and MERCY that he can fill — continuously — even a CRACKED POT!

16, 7:53 PM

Lisa C: Could they see each person of the Trinity?

Oct 30 2016, 7:53 PM

SRSusan (guest): I think we learn to be independent and then we get confused about dependence on God

4 PM

Dawn L: helpful description, Ruth :-

Oct 30 2016, 7:54 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) Ruth, we are all cracked pots. We all need to look to God to give us all that we need to live in relationship with Him.

 

Lisa C: Weakness is when we get much closer to God.

PM

Lisa C: He fills in our gaps

Oct 30 2016, 7:55 PM

Lisa C: We know we need Him more

Oct 30 2016, 7:55 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) Lisa, I don’t think that they saw the Trinity, but rather they heard the voice of God. Even when He walked with them in the garden, they probably sensed His presence and heard His voice.

16, 7:56 PM

Dawn L: So true Mother! A long time of false independence takes awhile to sort out, with Gods grace it does 56 PM

Lisa C: How did they get so confused with God right in front of them? The devil is very tricky.

Oct 30 2016, 7:57 PM

Ruth (guest): The TRINITY does not divide itself; God is ONE. And yet, we have Jesus, in time, becoming like us in everything but sin. So images . . . I’d have trouble even “imagining” God.

Oct 30 2016, 7:58 PM

Guest2590 (guest): Remember when Jesus was observing all the people giving in church ! Everyone gave the extra ! No Love ! The widow gave everything she had ! Absolute Love and Devotion to God ! She knew God would take care of her every need !

Oct 30 2016, 7:58 PM

Lisa C: One God, three Persons

Oct 30 2016, 7:58 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) I think that we need to distinguish between that independence needed to function in life, while recognizing the interdependence among all people, and recognizing that we are all dependent on God for all that we need to become all that He wants us to be.

6, 8:00 PM

 

SRSusan (guest): One way we learn here is to ask God for grace before every action

Oct 30 2016, 8:00 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) The poor widow knew abject poverty and was thoroughly aware of her dependence on God.

Oct 30 2016, 8:01 PM

Ruth (guest): When we are “cracked” we need to make sure the “opening” toward heaven is wide enough. We have to let the graces in just to move through the day.

Oct 30 2016, 8:02 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) We might also need for someone to close up the crack so that the grace given will not leak our.

Oct 30 2016, 8:02 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) Leak out, not our.

Oct 30 2016, 8:02 PM

Ruth (guest): Sr. Susan, I’ve been thinking that I would like to TRY to follow, here at home, as far as possible, the schedule you are on in the monastery. I’m sure that some things would be easier if I took more time for quiet prayer.

Oct 30 2016, 8:04 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) Perhaps, the grace itself will seal up the crack.

:06 PM

Lisa C: God gives us Grace if we accept it it has its effect. I do not think it can leak once it is accepted.

Oct 30 2016, 8:06 PM

Guest2590 (guest): Just as we depended on others to care for us when we were young God reminds us that as we age we will depend on others through Him to carry on . Humility , Love , Trusting God completely as we approach eternal life with Him in Heaven

016, 8:08 PM

Dawn L: So, can we lose a grace or grace once it has been given? In our human nature I believe we could…?

Oct 30 2016, 8:09 PM

Ruth (guest): Yes, Judy. God can patch the cracks; often he uses other people — new experiences — their loving prayers to help patch the cracks. Reminds of the old song, “A tinker am I; my name is Natty Dan, from morning ’til night.” We all need tinkers (pot menders) in our lives. AND we, too, can be and are tinkers for others. Some of the people who prayed for me at the Adirondack House of Prayer a couple of weeks ago were the same people I trained with — we did the McNutt video course on Healing Prayer together

Oct 30 2016, 8:09 PM

Lisa C: Dawn we do not have to accept Grace offered to us, but if we accept it it has an affect on us. Later we can do something wrong

Oct 30 2016, 8:10 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) Re: question 2. Mary sees that her greatness is the result of God’s action her. Taking pride in oneself, one’s achievements, is a lack of humility, a failure to see that any good or accomplishment comes from the action of God in the individual. Being prideful is delusional since one feels completely independent and discounts any dependence on God. It lacks the recognition that without God, we can do nothing, but can do all things in God.

Oct 30 2016, 8:10 PM

Lisa C: Our will stays free

Oct 30 2016, 8:11 PM

Dawn L: good explanation Lisa

Oct 30 2016, 8:11 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) In humility, one recognizes and acknowledges dependence on God, and rejoices in the power of God within us that makes it possible for us to do anything.

Oct 30 2016, 8:12 PM

Ruth (guest): Judy, “I can do all things in Him who strengthens me.” Timothy 4 ?

Oct 30 2016, 8:12 PM

Ruth (guest): No, Philippians 4:13.

:13 PM

Dawn L: anything… while knowing it is Him in us, not us

Oct 30 2016, 8:13 PM

Ruth (guest): Those “All things” are all the things necessary for salvation — everything we need to do to meet the duties of our state in life.

Oct 30 2016, 8:14 PM

Lisa C: and sometimes for salvation of others

Oct 30 2016, 8:14 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) Ruth, that verse helped through my cancer treatment and the back surgery two years later.

Oct 30 2016, 8:14 PM

Dawn L: receive important call….will keep reading on here

Oct 30 2016, 8:15 PM

Guest2590 (guest): When we look at all the people that we have met in our lifetime who know Jesus truly ,we see the real evidence that we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us !!!

Oct 30 2016, 8:15 PM

Ruth (guest): Interesting, though, that Jesus, very often, when he heals someone says, “YOUR FAITH has saved you.” He gives the healed person credit for the healing.

Oct 30 2016, 8:16 PM

Lisa C: Faith is a gift

Oct 30 2016, 8:16 PM

Lisa C: Even that comes from God

Oct 30 2016, 8:16 PM

Ruth (guest): You are right, Lisa.

6, 8:18 PM

Lisa C: People with faith are chosen to have it. That is why we must work to save all we can though it. Our suffering can be united with Jesus’ suffering and help save ones who do not know Him yet. Our suffering is part of His plan. This makes us understand our pain better.

Oct 30 2016, 8:18 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) I don’t know the reference, but in Scripture it says that there is nothing that we have that we have not received from the Lord.

Oct 30 2016, 8:19 PM

Guest2590 (guest): Lack of Faith is separation from God . We hold God back from helping . True Faith in God allows God to use His unlimited resources to reach out to everyone ! His desire is to save everyone ! Like a fireman who goes into a burning building !

Oct 30 2016, 8:19 PM

Ruth (guest): How I wish I could “see” even a little of the positive outcomes — salvation of others that come through His Grace in me. Sometimes I do, very plainly — but often, especially with relatives, I do not.

6, 8:20 PM

SRSusan (guest): Even Jesus had trouble with His relatives

Oct 30 2016, 8:21 PM

SRSusan (guest): In His own hometown

Oct 30 2016, 8:21 PM

SRSusan (guest): Is that not also in Scripture?

Oct 30 2016, 8:21 PM

Lisa C: Ruth maybe read St. Gertrude

Oct 30 2016, 8:21 PM

SRSusan (guest): “He could work nor miracles there because of their lack of faith

21 PM

Guest2590 (guest): You have been a great inspiration to me Ruth ! I remember your great Faith often when I am going through trials !

Oct 30 2016, 8:22 PM

Lisa C: Herald of Divine Love

, 8:22 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy)Question 3 asks about choosing abjection based on individual vocation. I have one example: a stay-at-home wife and mother attends to what is considered menial tasks in our day such as cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, chores looked down upon by those women pursuing careers outside the home, perhaps a CEO of a company or a position of authority or management.

Oct 30 2016, 8:22 PM

Lisa C: Autobiography of St Faustina also

Oct 30 2016, 8:23 PM

Lisa C: God can save others through our faith

Oct 30 2016, 8:23 PM

Lisa C: We ask Him and He will make Himself known to them

:22 PM

Lisa C: Herald of Divine Love

Oct 30 2016, 8:22 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy)Question 3 asks about choosing abjection based on individual vocation. I have one example: a stay-at-home wife and mother attends to what is considered menial tasks in our day such as cooking, cleaning, doing laundry, chores looked down upon by those women pursuing careers outside the home, perhaps a CEO of a company or a position of authority or management.

Oct 30 2016, 8:22 PM

Lisa C: Autobiography of St Faustina also

Oct 30 2016, 8:23 PM

Lisa C: God can save others through our faith

Oct 30 2016, 8:23 PM

Lisa C: We ask Him and He will make Himself known to them

Oct 30 2016, 8:23 PM

Lisa C: St T of L even prayed a murderer into having faith before he died

Oct 30 2016, 8:24 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) The homemaker sees her state as a vocation that gives service to the famiy, and is pleasing to God from Whom she derives the strength to endure the work and the trials inherent in creating and maintaining a home for the family.

Oct 30 2016, 8:24 PM

Ruth (guest): And there is a very dear friend, Irish Catholic turned Orthodox Jew. She is certainly leading a holier life now than when she was a Catholic, [She just called; forgot that this is Living Jesus chat time; we’ll talk later.] Please pray for her, for us.

Oct 30 2016, 8:25 PM

Lisa C: Ruth I hope she still believes in Jesus

Oct 30 2016, 8:26 PM

Ruth (guest): Good example, Judy.

Oct 30 2016, 8:26 PM

Ruth (guest): I am reading St. Faustina’s autobiography.

 

Lisa C: There is a part where Jesus says he will save people because she asks

7 PM

Ruth (guest): Gotta check out St. Gertrude. Is there more than one saint named Gertrude. She was popular — as is the name — in Germany.

Oct 30 2016, 8:27 PM

Lisa C: Yes, more than one

8:28 PM

Lisa C: I mean the Gertrude who was in a Monastery with St. Mathilda

Oct 30 2016, 8:28 PM

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) My favorite is Gertrude the Great also known as Gertrude of Helfta.

Oct 30 2016, 8:28 PM

 

Oct 30 2016, 8:28 PM

SrSusan (guest): Is she called the great?

Oct 30 2016, 8:29 PM

SrSusan (guest): Revelations of the Heart of Jesus?

Oct 30 2016, 8:29 PM

Lisa C: Jesus tells her that at the minute before people die they see Him and see how lovable he is

Oct 30 2016, 8:29 PM

Lisa C: Yes Mother

9 PM

Guest2590 (guest): The Broadway leads to destruction but the narrow difficult way leads to life ! I saw a painting of this scripture years ago and the artist depicted the Broadway as very attractive and everybody drawn to it but it was just a set being held up with sticks. The narrow path was entered through small gate narrow difficult path but at the end was great light !

Oct 30 2016, 8:29 PM

Lisa C: She knew about the Sacred Heart before the Visitation St MM

Oct 30 2016, 8:30 PM

SrSusan (guest): Yes!https://www.ewtn.com/library/MARY/stgertrude.htm

 

Guest2385 (guest): (Judy) If you want to read a super love story, read Gertrude’s “Herald of Divine Love.” Her relationship with the Lord was extraordinary. If there is such a thing as holy envy, I have it for Gertrude.