What do you make of Saint Francis’ emphasis on discovering the virtue unique to you that you are to practice in a more concentrated way beyond the more standard and basic virtues?
How do you think virtues play (or do not play) into God’s plan for salvation?
What do you think of Saint Francis calling the interior virtues “better” than the exterior virtues?
Guest9321 (guest): (Judy) Hi Everyone! It’s Judy. Today is Respect Life Sunday. Let us all remember to pray daily for all women who have had an abortion that they will repents and seek reconciliation with the Lord and with the Church. And for women who are planning an abortion, that they will be touched and abandon such plans, carrying their babies to term and doing whatever is necessary to provide for their spiritual, emotional, physical and temporal well being.
Guest9321 (guest): Now for my contribution to tonight’s chat. Re: Question 1, St. FdeS emphasis on discovering the virtue unique to us (me). I think that St. Francis means that virtue most important for one’s way of life. As a single woman committed to a spiritual and active apostolate, I must maintain a deep prayer life, and a consciousness of the needs of others if I am to minister to them. Is a person in need of compassion, generosity, kindness, encouragement–I must be prepared to give that.
Guest9321 (guest): I cannot give what I do not have, so I need those particular virtues.
Guest9321 (guest): Quest. 2. Virtues certainly play into God’s plan for salvation. They are the positive qualities that we need if we are to be true followers of Christ. If we are to enter into eternal life, then we must, to borrow loosely a phrase from Pope Francis, bear the scent of the Shepherd, that is possess His virtues and qualities. And to the degree that we develop those virtues most needed in our life, to that degree can we enter into eternal life.
Guest9321 (guest): Quest. 3 Exterior virtues vs. interior virtues. While exterior virtues such as compassion, patience, generosity, patient endurance, modesty are indeed valuable, I think they are an external witness to others of the sincerity of our commitment to the Lord. Because of their external nature, there is the possibility that the person may be praised by others and perhaps fall into pride.
O
Guest9321 (guest): The interior virtues such as faith, hope, love, those virtues we call the gifts of the Holy Spirit–wisdom, understanding, knowledge, counsel and fear of the Lord (also called wonder and awe) are generally unseen by others and relate more to our spiritual (inner) lives, but not exclusively. But it should be noted that the interior virtues are the foundation upon which the exterior virtues rest and from which they emanate.
Guest9321 (guest): In the case of both interior and exterior virtues, humility is the guardian, if you will, of all, for it is humility which gives us a proper sense of self and protects us from giving in to pride which can tempt us in our exercise of both types of virtue.
Guest9321 (guest): We should, perhaps, strive to acquire to attain the interior virtues above the exterior ones.
Anne M: Just stopped by, but I see it’s on virtue, so I need to stay to see how to develop some. LOL
VisitationSiste: Virtue is something many do not think about – or at least speak about
Oct 2 2016, 7:08 PM
VisitationSiste: I myself became more aware of a virtuous life in the novitiate where it was very emphasized
Oct 2 2016, 7:10 PM
Anne M: Sorry, stepped away for a sec. Virtue is not popular in some circles today, is it?
Oct 2 2016, 7:10 PM
Anne M: Doesn’t SFDS say we are not supposed to fret if we do poorly, or think we have no virtue in some area?
Oct 2 2016, 7:12 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes we are never to fret, but he says pick ourselves upand keep going
Oct 2 2016, 7:12 PM
VisitationSiste: Because it becomes a form of one’s identity?
Anne M: That makes so much sense. Hi Carol
Anne M: I have a funny story about the power of the seal of confession.. lol
Oct 2 2016, 7:12 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Carol Anne
Oct 2 2016, 7:13 PM
Carol Ann: Fretting can become its own form of idolatry
Oct 2 2016, 7:13 PM
Anne M: Sometimes I just get the feeling of being so displeasing to the Lord though
Oct 2 2016, 7:16 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, in her book of the revelations she received
:25 PM
Carol Ann: How would one discern which of the virtues are uniquely their own
Oct 2 2016, 7:26 PM
VisitationSiste: That is a tough one- examination of conscience, spiritual direction I think help
7 PM
Anne M: Is it what we recognize in ourselves by daily examination of conscience?
Oct 2 2016, 7:27 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes I think that is one key
7:28 PM
Carol Ann: Because while I try to develop and grow in all the virtues we’ve never really talked about which is the most developed :29 PM
VisitationSiste: It’s a good point and again optimistic like St Francis de Sales start from ones strength :31 PM
Anne M: But SFDS is speaking of the virtues, not the “Gifts of the Holy Spirit”, right? But aren’t they really combined. i.e., faith, love of God and Neighbor
Carol Ann: I know I can’t!
6, 7:31 PM
Anne M: I know. earlier I said I would stay to see how to develop some PM
VisitationSiste: How about good attributes rather than virtues for starters
Oct 2 2016, 7:34 PM
Carol Ann: Th a t’s a little easier. I can perservere and I can stand up for what I bekieve in even sometimes when no one stands with me
Oct 2 2016, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: So for ex I knowe I can be patient, but not all the time so its an attribute but perhaps not yet a virtue
6, 7:34 PM
Anne M: like defending the underdog. i.e., charity?
Oct 2 2016, 7:34 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, an attribute, not a virtue yet
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VisitationSiste: Maybe that’s how we can approach these questions
Oct 2 2016, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: What do you make of Saint Francis’ emphasis on discovering the virtue unique to you that you are to practice in a more concentrated way beyond the more standard and basic virtues?
Oct 2 2016, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: so call it attribute not virtue for the time being
37 PM
Carol Ann: We are all unique and called in different ways. We need all the virtues but often we need one in particular
Oct 2 2016, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: I think St Francis wants us to be saints and each saint is unique so if we concentrate on our “best points” we can grow in that one and it will lead to growth in the others
42 PM
VisitationSiste: I think the Lord saves us and has mercy on us even if we just have goodwill and undeveloped virtue But perhaps our heavenly glory is greater with gtreater virtue
Oct 2 2016, 7:42 PM
Anne M: Well, all I can think of is the Lord’s Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you> Commandements, yes. But treatment of others, i.e., loving, patient, kind…
:43 PM
Carol Ann: Our virtues are like jewels?
Oct 2 2016, 7:43 PM
Ruth (guest): Bishop Terry LaValley was at our parish most of the day. He preached at two Masses. One thing that stuck with me is that we ALREADY HAVE everything necessary to give God glory.
Oct 2 2016, 7:44 PM
Ruth (guest): Hi Dawn!
Oct 2 2016, 7:44 PM
Anne M: I Sometimes have a hard time seeing the Lord in others. Does that happen to you, Sister?
Oct 2 2016, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: Jewels yes!
Oct 2 2016, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: Anne, often our humanity seems to block our vison of the Lord in the other but we need to see with the eyes of faith
:46 PM
Anne M: yes! :47 PM
Ruth (guest): Virtues like jewels in that they are precious, but virtues are much more substantial than any exterior decorations. ]
Oct 2 2016, 7:48 PM
Carol Ann: Of course, Ruth
50 PM
VisitationSiste: There are the interior virtues and exterior- I think they are related. So if you have a peaceful heart you emanate peace around you 6, 7:51 PM
Ruth (guest): I think it helps when there are people with whom we associate often but find extremely difficult to even like, let alone “see Our Lord in” — people who deliberately are mean to anyone, especially toward ourselves, if we pray for them.
Oct 2 2016, 7:52 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, sometimes thst’s all we can do
7:53 PM
Anne M: The Lord oftentimes puts such people at my table at parish functions. lol! I say, you did that on purpose Lord!
Oct 2 2016, 7:53 PM
Ruth (guest): And it might help to realize that a person who demeans you is actually saying more about himself (through his behavior) than he is about you.
3 PM
Ruth (guest): “they drew a circle that cut me out; I drew a larger circle that included them in it”
Oct 2 2016, 7:54 PM
Anne M: yes
Oct 2 2016, 7:54 PM
Carol Ann: Yes. I get caught up in wondering who else has noticed that….
Oct 2 2016, 7:54 PM
Ruth (guest): paraphrased from a poem I read many, many years ago
:55 PM
Anne M: What do you mean Carol Ann? 57 PM
Ruth (guest): Yes, it does, sometimes help to examine ourselves on a specific accusation if there was one, but also to have someone commiserate, reassure you, especially when the nasty remarks are scattered widely.
Oct 2 2016, 7:57 PM
Carol Ann: Oh sorry. Say someone is being mean to me in deservedly. I can console myself with what Ruth said about it’s not me, but part of me wonders how many other people at the table have figured out it’s not me
7:59 PM
Ruth (guest): Ah, I see what you mean, Carol Ann. Yes, it helps if there are others who see/hear what you did and are able to interpret it the same way you did. It’s our egos that are injured if it seems to us that nobody else notices that a slight was undeserved.
Oct 2 2016, 7:59 PM
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Carol Ann: A form of pride I think, and insecurity a lack of trust in who Christ says I am
Oct 2 2016, 8:00 PM
Anne M: yes
Oct 2 2016, 8:01 PM
Lisa C: I think it is hard to see what our own virtues are
Oct 2 2016, 8:01 PM
Lisa C: It is easier to see virtues in others
2 PM
Anne M: yes it is. But Sister, Why do I feel guilty thinking about my good attributes, though?
Oct 2 2016, 8:02 PM
VisitationSiste: Exactly but certainly we know some of our strong points and I think we need to build on those
Oct 2 2016, 8:02 PM
VisitationSiste: That’s the real issue Anne- our self esteem and how we were taught perhaps
Oct 2 2016, 8:02 PM
Lisa C: I think it is our knowledge of our own sins that can overshadow our knowledge of our virtues
16, 8:03 PM
Ruth (guest): I think that is correct, Carol Ann. But because Christ was silent when he was being accused before the crucifixion, we sometimes incorrectly think that we are “called” to imitate this behavior. Sometimes we are; sometimes we are not. And the “trick” is to quickly recognize which is which.
Oct 2 2016, 8:03 PM
VisitationSiste: That’s true!
16, 8:03 PM
Anne M: yes
Oct 2 2016, 8:04 PM
Ruth (guest): One of my former pastors told me “You do not have to be a doormat.”
Oct 2 2016, 8:04 PM
Carol Ann: That’s where I have a hard time…to know when to be silent and when to “fight” back
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Guest8951 (guest): Hi ! Sorry I am late ! God Bless You All ! Brian
Oct 2 2016, 8:05 PM
Ruth (guest): I wonder, Carol Ann, if we don’t all have difficulty with that.
Oct 2 2016, 8:05 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Brian
Oct 2 2016, 8:05 PM
Ruth (guest): Welcome, Brian.
Oct 2 2016, 8:05 PM
Lisa C: …fight back when truth is hidden or when injustice is being done
Oct 2 2016, 8:05 PM
Carol Ann: I’m sure we do, and that we all think we’Re worse than anyone else!
7 PM
VisitationSiste: Brian what’s your perspective on virtues and identifying ourown
Oct 2 2016, 8:07 PM
Guest8951 (guest): We all appreciate correction over time once we remove pride with Jesus ‘s guidance !
Oct 2 2016, 8:07 PM
Lisa C: What qualities are virtues…maybe if we list them we can have an easier time identifying them
Oct 2 2016, 8:08 PM
Anne M: https://www.stpeterslist.com/10515/st-josemarias-17-signs-of-a-lack-of-humility/
Oct 2 2016, 8:08 PM
Anne M: Is Josemaria’s list a little bit harsh? I fail miserably with some of these
Oct 2 2016, 8:08 PM
Ruth (guest): I used to be very good at sarcasm, but I realized that it was a form of self-defense or even aggression. Quick wit can be a sort of oneupsmanship. (Spelling?) So I gave it up for Lent. I never returned to using sarcasm. A dean told me I might have to re-learn it! “It’s deciding when to be silent and when to ”
9 PM
Ruth (guest): “fight” back.” Virtue of prudence?
Oct 2 2016, 8:09 PM
VisitationSiste: yes humility, gentleness, patience
, 8:09 PM
Lisa C: faith
Oct 2 2016, 8:09 PM
Lisa C: truthfulness
, 8:10 PM
Carol Ann: Ruth, that is such a wond e rful insight
Oct 2 2016, 8:10 PM
Guest8951 (guest): Love
Oct 2 2016, 8:11 PM
Ruth (guest): LOVE! CHARITY! GENEROSITY.
OSITY.
Oct 2 2016, 8:11 PM
Lisa C: hospitality
t 2 2016, 8:12 PM
VisitationSiste: These are specific and we all probably have a predominance in one of them even iof we are not perfect in it :12 PM
Ruth (guest): Actually it is the same thing you said, Carol Ann, only different words, I think.
Oct 2 2016, 8:12 PM
Anne M: Linked with Gifts of Holy Spirit. What ever we do for the Glory of God. Hospitality…
Oct 2 2016, 8:12 PM
Guest8951 (guest): The world really tries to destroy all these virtues where God nurtures them in us !
Oct 2 2016, 8:12 PM
Lisa C: family values
Oct 2 2016, 8:13 PM
Ruth (guest): Perseverance. Long suffering.
Oct 2 2016, 8:13 PM
Carol Ann: In some ways I face the same struggle. I am the only person here who seems to understand what Jonathan Swift was trying to do in his stronger essays
8:14 PM
Ruth (guest): One of the important arguments for having real COMMUNITY — with shared values. Practice is so different from theory- but in action reconciliation makes all the difference
Oct 2 2016, 8:16 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, and a wll ingress to let the other be other
Oct 2 2016, 8:16 PM
Ruth (guest): If others are using an inappropriate measuring stick, we may eventually — or even quickly — begin to believe that their measures are correct and those we have learned are not. That’s why creating a CULTURE in tune with godly values is so important — and especially for the young.
Oct 2 2016, 8:17 PM
Guest8951 (guest): You can see in the popular culture an increase in separating groups of people ! God is always bringing us to stand beside each other !
16, 8:18 PM
VisitationSiste: If you had to choose a virtue to grow in, what would it be? For me, more compassion 8:18 PM
Anne M: Humility
Oct 2 2016, 8:18 PM
Ruth (guest): The changing loss of a public culture based upon our Judeo-Christian values makes it hard for good, young Catholic men, for example, to hear and respond to the “voice” of God calling them to holiness, or even to the priesthood.
Oct 2 2016, 8:19 PM
Carol Ann: We also must guard our religious communities from developing unhealthy habits
Oct 2 2016, 8:19 PM
Carol Ann: Courage
Oct 2 2016, 8:19 PM
Ruth (guest): Brian, that is almost identical to what one of the archbishops at INSIGHT was saying.
0 PM
Guest8951 (guest): Humility – pride shows up in sneaky ways in my life
Oct 2 2016, 8:20 PM
Ruth (guest): And Pope Francis was, too. Building walls is not the work of God but of the devil.
2 2016, 8:21 PM
Lisa C: probably patience
Oct 2 2016, 8:22 PM
VisitationSiste: So now, say compassion How do I grow in it? Recognizing situatios that call for compassion and being intentional in my focus and asking the Lord at those moments to grant it
:22 PM
Ruth (guest): Have you read C.S. Lewis, what’s the title — ah, yes, the Screwtape Letters?
Oct 2 2016, 8:23 PM
Guest8951 (guest): In Buffalo we grew up in a very Christian Community all groups of people found a way to get along today everything works at dividing people!
16, 8:24 PM
Anne M: I needed to learn to ask for the grace to recognize situations
Oct 2 2016, 8:24 PM
Ruth (guest): Sneaky is what the “under-devil” was being taught by Screwtape to be — to use the weaknesses of his “client” against him.
Oct 2 2016, 8:25 PM
Ruth (guest): Hi Amy.
Oct 2 2016, 8:25 PM
Guest8951 (guest): Amen Sister !
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Amy Cochran: that is a good book. CS Lewis had a good understaning of Christianity
Oct 2 2016, 8:27 PM
Carol Ann: To recognize situations we must w s lk hand in hand with the Lord, discerning all the time
:28 PM
VisitationSiste: Thats an interior thing and the question was What do you think of Saint Francis calling the interior virtues “better” than the exterior virtues?
Oct 2 2016, 8:28 PM
Guest8951 (guest): I have been working at attacking pride when it flares up with remembering God’s Word and applying immediately
6, 8:29 PM
Carol Ann: Exterior virtues can be faked, but not interior
Oct 2 2016, 8:29 PM
Anne M: If you have the interior the exterior is easier. Not hard to be compassionate…
Oct 2 2016, 8:29 PM
Ruth (guest): I find it easy to be compassionate to the down-and-out, but NOT so easy to recognize that the powerful, narcissistic boss, for example, ALSO needs my compassion.
Oct 2 2016, 8:30 PM
Ruth (guest): Interesting observation Carol Ann.
31 PM
Guest8951 (guest): When we take care of interior the exterior is real ! The mouth speaks what the heart is full of !
Oct 2 2016, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: I do need to go now, but please stay on and discuss Many blessings