Questions to Ponder:
- We often see many superficial friendships among people around us (maybe even in our own lives). How do we strive to maintain only genuine friendships? Should we expect every friendship to be genuine?
- How can we distinguish between superficial friendships and acquaintances? Or better, how can we stop acquaintances from turning into superficial friendships?
- Saint Francis mentions friendships that “spring up chiefly among young people, who are easily fascinated by personal attractions, dress, and gossip–friendships in which the tailor and hairdresser have the chief part.” Does it shock you or not that even though writen around 500 years ago that this sounds like it could have been written today?
Jan 22 2017, 7:22 PM
VisitationSiste: tomorrow is St Jane’s 445 birthday!
J
VisitationSiste: And Yes Tues is St Francis Feast
Jan 22 2017, 7:23 PM
Lisa C: What were St. Jane’s miracles
Jan 22 2017, 7:24 PM
VisitationSiste: That’s a good question I’m not sure I know She was canonized in the 1700’s somewhere. Have to check that out
Jan 22 2017, 7:24 PM
Lisa C: Me too, in all those years we never heard about them
Jan 22 2017, 7:24 PM
Lisa C: years at school I mean
Jan 22 2017, 7:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Maybe they are not documented in English
Jan 22 2017, 7:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Good research project for me during the week
Jan 22 2017, 7:29 PM
Lisa C: Several miracles are related by the bishop of Puy to have been performed by her, some whilst she was living, others through her intercession, and by her relics after her death. Among others, he mentions a young nun at Nemers, in the county of Maine, who had been struck with a palsy, and confined to her bed seven weeks in the most deplorable and helpless condition; but was on a sudden perfectly restored to her health, and the use of her limbs, by invoking this servant of God, who was then lately deceased. Wh
Jan 22 2017, 7:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Gabrielle Angélique Morel, of the Monastery of the Visitation of Avalon, diocese of Autun, had her right leg almost entirely parched, without heat, and shorter than the other by half a palm; She recommended herself to the handmaid of the Lord, and obtained the restoration of that afflicted part, which extended at the level of the left leg.The second miracle happened on the person of Elisabeth Dronier de la Perouse, a professor of the same Order in the monastery of Saint Amour, then of the Diocese of Lyons.
Jan 22 2017, 7:30 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) I am thinking about saints that were a pair-male and female like St. Francis de Sales and St. Jane Frances, Sts. Francis and Clare of Asssisi, St. John Bosco and Mary Mazzarello (not exactly friends but worked together to found the Salesian Sisters. Anyone know of any others?
Jan 22 2017, 7:30 PM
VisitationSiste: The third looks at Claire de Rossi, the Roraaino lady, who was dying of phthysis. She had received the last sacraments; She only waited for her last breath, she was even thought to have died for some time; but she vowed a novena to Blessed Jeanne Francoise, and on the third or fourth day the evil diminished so rapidly that by the ninth she had recovered Her complexion, her appetite, her strength, and that she could go out and show herself in public.
Jan 22 2017, 7:30 PM
Lisa C: Whilst the community was singing the Te Deum for this miracle, another nun, who was grievously afflicted with sickness, and whose legs were swelled to an enormous size, begged the like favour through the intercession of this saint, and found herself no less suddenly sound and well, so that the choir sung a second Te Deum in thanksgiving immediately after the first. Several other miracles were proved before commissaries, and declared authentic in the process of her beatification, which was performed, and the
Jan 22 2017, 7:30 PM
Lisa C: http://www.bartleby.com/210/8/212.html
Jan 22 2017, 7:31 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Judy St Vincent de Paul and St Louis Marillac
Jan 22 2017, 7:32 PM
Lisa C: Mary and Joseph
Jan 22 2017, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: Great choice Lisa
Jan 22 2017, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: That’s Louise Marillac
Jan 22 2017, 7:33 PM
VisitationSiste: Real spiritual friendships
Jan 22 2017, 7:33 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) I forgot about Vincent and Louise.
Jan 22 2017, 7:33 PM
Lisa C: St. Margaret Mary and St. Claude de la Columbiere
Jan 22 2017, 7:33 PM
VisitationSiste: YES!
Jan 22 2017, 7:34 PM
Lisa C: St. John of the Cross and St. Theresa of Avilla
Jan 22 2017, 7:34 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) Can we count Benedict and
Jan 22 2017, 7:34 PM
Guest6636 (guest): Scholastica among them even though they were twins>
Jan 22 2017, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: St Theresa and St John of the Cross
Jan 22 2017, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: Oh you had that one already
Jan 22 2017, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: St Patrick and St Brigid
Jan 22 2017, 7:35 PM
Lisa C: De we say St. Francis and St. Jane?
Jan 22 2017, 7:35 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) yep, they were the first two mentioned.
Jan 22 2017, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: and those on the way to sainthood like Bl Louis Brisson and Mother Mary de Sales Chappuis
36 PM
Lisa C: I do not think he is a saint but St. Terese of Lisieux wrote to a missionary priest named Maurice
Jan 22 2017, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: True
Jan 22 2017, 7:37 PM
Lisa C: Maurice Belliere
Lisa C: You can read their letters
Jan 22 2017, 7:37 PM
Lisa C: The Story of a Love
Jan 22 2017, 7:38 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) Given the topic for tonight, I think that it would be fair to say that these were genuine friendships. They had the same general purpose and shared a deep love for the Lord.
7:39 PM
VisitationSiste: I think St Francis wrote about friendships based on his friendship with St Jane
Jan 22 2017, 7:39 PM
VisitationSiste: All of us have Ruth something is not quite righ
7:40 PM
Lisa C: oh, what about Louis and Zelie Martin
Jan 22 2017, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes married couples too
:41 PM
VisitationSiste: St Marianne Cope and St Damien of Molokai, to some extentPM
VisitationSiste: The center of all these friendships was God, not each other1 PM
Lisa C: Saint Gianna Molla and her husband
Jan 22 2017, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: That is not easy to achieve unless one really is in love with the Lord
:42 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) Getting to the first question: To maintain only genuine freindships we need to be careful in choosing our friends. In the earliest stage of the relationship, we need to listen carefully to the other to attempt to determine whether his or her values, hopes and dreams ,prerferred types of entertainment (books,music, etc/) are similar to ours. 7:43 PM
Ruth (guest): Or complement ours. Complete.
Jan 22 2017, 7:43 PM
Lisa C: It is easier to chose friends when you are single. It was more difficult when I was married.
Jan 22 2017, 7:43 PM
Lisa C: There were people kind of forced on me
4 PM
Guest6636 (guest): Then we may have the beginning of a good friendship. If these things are very different, and truly incompatible with ours, it would probably be better to let the relationship die since it has a weak foundation.
Jan 22 2017, 7:44 PM
Lisa C: That was difficult
4 PM
VisitationSiste: I think the true spiritual friendship is a special gift given by the Lord6 PM
VisitationSiste: I had prayer group friends who were truly centered in God but not a Francis-Clare type friendshipM
Ruth (guest): Married couples should be true friends, too. But that is one situation in which one should not just let the friendship die, but through their commitment to one pray and help the partner grow closer to God. PM
Ruth (guest): Of course that is the ideal.
Jan 22 2017, 7:48 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) People who are centered in God may not develop good friendships because other aspects of their lives may be too divergent.
Jan 22 2017, 7:49 PM
Ruth (guest): Sometimes, when the situation is very difficult, one becomes a saint and the other “makes” the partner a saint by the trials they withstand for love of God.
Jan 22 2017, 7:49 PM
Lisa C: It is not easy to find people who are God centered
Jan 22 2017, 7:49 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) Good observation, Ruth.
7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: In parishes or religious organizations one might
7, 7:50 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) in prayer groups to7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: Also in a monastery sometimes spiritual friendships develop
Jan 22 2017, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: But that used to be a difficulty; not so much now
Jan 22 2017, 7:52 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) You mean that whole business about particular friendships, Mother?
Jan 22 2017, 7:52 PM
VisitationSiste: I think every relationship should be genuine but that sdoes not mean it is deep-
Jan 22 2017, 7:52 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Judy
52 PM
Carol Ann: Is the spiritual friendship St. Francis talks about the the soul friend or Anam cara of Celtic spirituality ?
Jan 22 2017, 7:52 PM
Lisa C: Didn’t St Francis de Sales discourage preferring some over others in the Monastery?
Jan 22 2017, 7:52 PM
Ruth (guest): I would wish for that — real friendships within the monastery, but one must also be careful about those “left out.”
53 PM
VisitationSiste: Like a soul friend I think
Jan 22 2017, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes in the early days we were to be caring of each other equally and even today but if God puts people together for some special purpose that is healthy we respect that
Jan 22 2017, 7:56 PM
Ruth (guest): In eighth grade in a public school while “searching” I began reading nightly The Imitation of Christ — and attempting to practice it. Not exactly the spirituality for a 20th century public school kid! But I wanted so much to know if God was real and really heard prayers — even “hypothetical prayers” like ” God if you exist and hear prayers, help me to come to know you as you are.”
Jan 22 2017, 7:57 PM
VisitationSiste: but we do have as long as others are not shut out
7 PM
Lisa C: I would think that you would all be friends as you live so closely. If not, it would be horrible.
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) Re: Question 2 I would wonder if a friendship that is not genuine can be a friendship at all. If some major similarities are missing, why would the people remain friends? There neds to be some common grounds in order for the relationship to genuine. Otherwise ome might want to dominate the other, or try to change the other to be more like him or her.
Jan 22 2017, 7:59 PM
Carol Ann: That is what I was told too
17, 8:00 PM
Ruth (guest): I’m not sure how it is possible to have really close spiritual friends in a monastery and not have others feel “shut out.” :01 PM
Lisa C: Ruth, I think we can share different things with different people without some feeling left out.
Jan 22 2017, 8:01 PM
Ruth (guest): Carol Ann, that is the spirituality in The Imitation of Christ — for medieval monastic life.
Jan 22 2017, 8:01 PM
VisitationSiste: It is difficult unless everyone is mature
:01 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) To keep acquaintances from becoming superficial friendships, we should recognize the real traits of the relationship (e.g. is the other person hot and cold?). Spending less time together or having fewer contacts (phone, internet) will help the relationship to gradually end.
Jan 22 2017, 8:01 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, I know.
Jan 22 2017, 8:01 PM
Lisa C: For example we can have different kinds of conversations depending on the people we are sharing with
Jan 22 2017, 8:01 PM
Ruth (guest): That’s an important insight, Sister.
Jan 22 2017, 8:02 PM
Ruth (guest): And Lisa.
:03 PM
Lisa C: In a Monastery where you are supposed to be silent except for recreation and meals how do you really have time to develop spiritual friendship?
Jan 22 2017, 8:03 PM
Ruth (guest): One of my dreams has always been to have all my really good friends at least LIKE one another. Any time I’ve gotten them together though, it has backfired remarkably.
Jan 22 2017, 8:03 PM
Carol Ann: It takes a while!
Jan 22 2017, 8:04 PM
VisitationSiste: It is very limited Lisa
5 PM
Ruth (guest): Really? How did you handle it? And did it change after you entered?
Jan 22 2017, 8:06 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) Sometimes people with whom you are friends might be jealous of your relationship with other friends and hence the negative reaction to them.
Jan 22 2017, 8:06 PM
Lisa C: Mother, does it drive people more to God?
Jan 22 2017, 8:06 PM
Lisa C: I would think they were already pretty close to Him to be there.
PM
VisitationSiste: What drives more people to God?
Jan 22 2017, 8:08 PM
Lisa C: Having limitations on friendship in the monastery
Jan 22 2017, 8:09 PM
VisitationSiste: Ah yes. That is the goal- alone with God That is what a monk/nun is
Jan 22 2017, 8:09 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) entrance into a religious congregation does not mean that the person already has a deep relationship with God. It might be that the relationship is somewhat superficial but following the formation of the congregation, the relationship with God can really blossom.
Jan 22 2017, 8:09 PM
Lisa C: 1 Kings 19:11-13 does God always sound like a gentle whisper is that why you need to be alone in the quiet
Jan 22 2017, 8:10 PM
Carol Ann: You are right Judy
Jan 22 2017, 8:10 PM
VisitationSiste: Rarely today, Judy. Young people, maybe. Middle-aged, rarely Thay usually have a had a deep experience
0 PM
VisitationSiste: At least my experience with discerners here17, 8:11 PM
Carol Ann: Wish I had known about you early in my journey, Sr. Your way is so much different than what I experienced
Jan 22 2017, 8:11 PM
Lisa C: Oh, I re-read it ok
13 PM
Ruth (guest): I think if a friend is not trying to lead you away from God, and you have some things in common, you can have many different friends — each an individual — mutually filling one another’s legitimate needs and wishes, and this is all part of God’s will. Otherwise how would even evangelization be possible?
Jan 22 2017, 8:14 PM
Ruth (guest): Look at the motley crew that Jesus called to be his disciples!
Jan 22 2017, 8:14 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) Carol Ann, how is your experience with the Little Portion community and the Domestic Expression?
Jan 22 2017, 8:15 PM
Lisa C: I do not feel like I need friends, I am very introverted, and it is easier to be close to God because of it.
Jan 22 2017, 8:16 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) It must be difficult to develop deep relationships when you live in varied areas and see each other infrequently.
Jan 22 2017, 8:16 PM
Carol Ann: They are a healthy and integrated community, but because we are so scattered meeting is very difficult, so unless you lived in the same city with someone face to face contact is far
They are a healthy and integrated community, but because we are so scattered meeting is very difficult, so unless you lived in the same city with someone face to face contact is far
Jan 22 2017, 8:16 PM
Lisa C: I do love to have spiritual friends, because they make God real in our lives. He is very real anyway, but it feels like He is sending them when we need them.
Jan 22 2017, 8:17 PM
Lisa C: Alone though I always have God
Jan 22 2017, 8:17 PM
Carol Ann: Support and active formation is possible though because of modern communications. Still miss monastery l
8 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) Would you think of entering the Little Portion Monastery?
Jan 22 2017, 8:18 PM
Carol Ann: I wish I could
7, 8:22 PM
Ruth (guest): Carol Ann, have you asked to be accepted into the monastery? Have you asked Our Lady/Jesus for help to be accepted 2 PM
Carol Ann: Yes
Jan 22 2017, 8:22 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) Question 3 It is surprising, but not shocking that St. Francis’ writing could ave been written today. Although thee have bee n many technical and cultural advances over the past 400 years. human nature has not changed very much. There are always people who still take a lower road, a road lacking depth, maturity, sincerity.
8:23 PM
Carol Ann: Question 3 is harder because what is described seems like a stage in life development that we are supposed to grow out of
Jan 22 2017, 8:24 PM
Ruth (guest): Doesn’t shock me or even surprise me one little bit.
, 8:24 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) But there are people who do not grow out of that stage. , 8:25 PM
Lisa C: I noticed that when M was little everyone in school was friendly with everyone else until about 3rd grade where they all kind of broke off into groups based upon socioeconomic status probably guided by the parents. Then they stayed that way through high school. 6 PM
VisitationSiste: Girls do that here too
Jan 22 2017, 8:26 PM
Lisa C: I would think they would do it by religion or things in common, but no.
Jan 22 2017, 8:26 PM
VisitationSiste: If that happened when I was a kid I was totally oblivious
Jan 22 2017, 8:26 PM
Lisa C: It did not happen at VA then. We did not see each other outside school.
Jan 22 2017, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: I never really had close school friends mine were all from the block I lived on
Jan 22 2017, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: Oh now they all do it seems
Jan 22 2017, 8:27 PM
Lisa C: Parents did not come in the school to do the sifting
017, 8:27 PM
Lisa C: We chose our close friends
Jan 22 2017, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes that is true
PM
Ruth (guest): That’s probably one reason having school uniforms is a good idea –makes it less obvious what the socio-economic status/differences are.
Jan 22 2017, 8:28 PM
Lisa C: Parents could not come in they just went to Christmas entertainment or talked to Nuns behind the grill once per year
Jan 22 2017, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: Well we are all chat friends don’t you think?
8 PM
Lisa C: Ruth, my daughter’s school had uniforms, but it still happened
Jan 22 2017, 8:28 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) I did have some friends in high school and college with whom I am still friends. I am still friends with my very first childhood friend who lived on my block.
Jan 22 2017, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: WE chat about spiritual things- so awhat are we actually
:29 PM
Carol Ann: Yes we are😇
Jan 22 2017, 8:29 PM
Lisa C: Mother, I consider you a spiritual friend in the true sense
Jan 22 2017, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: “virtual spiritual acquaintances/friends?”
0 PM
Lisa C: Virtual is hard to get to know people
Jan 22 2017, 8:30 PM
Carol Ann: The relationship is no less real, but we are forging new territory
Jan 22 2017, 8:31 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) I think that we are true spiritual friends even though we may never meet each other “up close and personal.” But we do share some rather personal things here, so there has to be a good level of trust among us.
Jan 22 2017, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: Some of us have met and been together in the Monastery and prayed together
Jan 22 2017, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: Actually Carol Ann you are the only one I have not met personally
Jan 22 2017, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: But you are the longest chatter here I mean in time- right from the start
Jan 22 2017, 8:31 PM
Lisa C: Mother you have met us, but we have not met eachother
Jan 22 2017, 8:32 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) Mother, you are the only one I have met personally.
M
VisitationSiste: Some of us have met and been together in the Monastery and prayed together
Jan 22 2017, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: Actually Carol Ann you are the only one I have not met personally
Jan 22 2017, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: But you are the longest chatter here I mean in time- right from the start
Jan 22 2017, 8:31 PM
Lisa C: Mother you have met us, but we have not met eachother
Jan 22 2017, 8:32 PM
Guest6636 (guest): (Judy) Mother, you are the only one I have met personally.
Jan 22 2017, 8:32 PM
Carol Ann: Really? Hmm, we will have to do something about that
Jan 22 2017, 8:32 PM
VisitationSiste: I agree!
Jan 22 2017, 8:32 PM
VisitationSiste: True Lisa- and someday- who knows- a chatters roundup
Jan 22 2017, 8:33 PM
VisitationSiste: Together in prayer and discussion. But Judy is correct- we do trust each other
Jan 22 2017, 8:33 PM
Carol Ann: There was a long stretch where it was just us. You have played a very significant role in my formation too!
Jan 22 2017, 8:33 PM
Ruth (guest): Yes, we did speak about something like that about a year ago. A get-together.
Jan 22 2017, 8:33 PM
Lisa C: We should have a retreat at Visitation if we could
Jan 22 2017, 8:33 PM
VisitationSiste: God put all of us together too! Yes Carol remember those early days.
Jan 22 2017, 8:34 PM
VisitationSiste: That would be great Lisa
Jan 22 2017, 8:34 PM
Lisa C: Even if we had to have air mattresses and cots
Jan 22 2017, 8:34 PM
VisitationSiste: Let;s pray on it again!