Saint Francis gives us a startling message here: that false friendship appears good. That is why the devil’s name, “Lucifer,” means “bearer of light.” The devil wants to attract us with seemingly good things. How do we discern the difference between a sheep and a wolf in sheep’s clothing? Did you find Saint Francis’s words too startling? Or did you find them timely and poignant? This is not the first time Saint Francis has warned us of staying away from unhealthy relationships. Why do you suppose he doesn’t give the advice often her in modern Christian preaching, which would tell us that “as Christians” we need to be friends with those people, that it is our duty to love them?
Feb 12 2017, 7:15 PM
Guest9950 (guest): Hi Everyone, it’s Judy. Greetings from the frozen, white world of West Haverstraw, NY. We must have another 3-4 inches of snow on top of the 8 or 9 from Friday. It looks pretty, but it is a nuisance!!
Feb 12 2017, 7:16 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) Hi Lisa!
Feb 12 2017, 7:17 PM
Lisa C: Hi Judy
Feb 12 2017, 7:19 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) Does anyone know if there is a way to make the print here a darker shade? I am having trouble seeing it.
Feb 12 2017, 7:19 PM
Lisa C: I do not know
Feb 12 2017, 7:19 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) Maybe Mother does.
Welcome to our Living Jesus Chat Room. Just sign in, using any of the methods below.
Feb 12 2017, 7:21 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) Welcome viewer!
Feb 12 2017, 7:21 PM
Lisa C: Hi Mother
Feb 12 2017, 7:21 PM
SrSusan (guest): Hi No somehow
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SrSusan (guest): I was remembering my childhood friendships today
Feb 12 2017, 7:26 PM
SrSusan (guest): We used to sing into a reel to reel tape recorder
Feb 12 2017, 7:27 PM
Guest258 (guest): No,Marie.
Feb 12 2017, 7:27 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) I am blessed to still have my very first childhood friend, as well as a friend from high school days and 2 from college.
Feb 12 2017, 7:27 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy)
Feb 12 2017, 7:27 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) Welcome aboard Marie!!
Feb 12 2017, 7:27 PM
Lisa C: On facebook I have found a lot of VA friends
Feb 12 2017, 7:28 PM
Guest258 (guest): Those tape recorders were much fun.
Feb 12 2017, 7:28 PM
Guest258 (guest): Thank you
Feb 12 2017, 7:28 PM
Lisa C: Does your Mother still have the tapes, Mother?
Feb 12 2017, 7:29 PM
SrSusan (guest): Yes some of them
Feb 12 2017, 7:29 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) How neat is that!!
Feb 12 2017, 7:29 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (judy) Hi Dawn!
Feb 12 2017, 7:29 PM
Lisa C: My Father taped us when we were 2 and 3
Feb 12 2017, 7:30 PM
Dawn (guest): Hi Judy!
Feb 12 2017, 7:30 PM
SrSusan (guest): I think as an adult I can discern friendships better than when I was young
Feb 12 2017, 7:30 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (judy) Welcome aboard 8161 (Brian?)
Feb 12 2017, 7:30 PM
Dawn (guest): and Mother, Lisa, and guests. everyone
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Ruth (guest): For one thing. By the VOICE. “I know mine and mine know me.”
Feb 12 2017, 7:36 PM
Lisa C: Carry rosaries and pray when we meet new people that we will be protected
Feb 12 2017, 7:36 PM
SrSusan (guest): I think when one is young and one’s issues are not resolved some friendships are formed around those issues, even unconsciously
Feb 12 2017, 7:36 PM
Lisa C: Not meaning protected from attacks, but protected from evil
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Guest8161 (guest): By their fruit you shall know them !
Feb 12 2017, 7:36 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) St. Francis seems to be really hung up on this topic. On question 1, How to discern the difference between a sheep or a wolf in sheep’s clothing. As Scripture says, “By their fruits you shall know them.” A true sheep will bear fruits of as St. Francis says, “simple honest language,” modesty, purity in actions and does not complain about not being loved. The wolf in sheep’s clothing produces fruits of “honeyed words: “passionate endearments’ weakening or purity and devotion , sensualcaresses.
Feb 12 2017, 7:37 PM
Guest258 (guest): When we feel something in our spirit giving us a negative sense
Feb 12 2017, 7:37 PM
Dawn (guest): with the words used…but I would add fear. if someone brings fear and not peace
37 PM
Carol Ann: If a person shies away from talking about God or only drinks and partis they may no be a good friend PM
Ruth (guest): I pray for protections SOMETIMES — as when I am praying for someone with a serious issue or seeing a psychiatric patient.
Feb 12 2017, 7:38 PM
Dawn (guest): agree, it is easier with life experience too, to discern
Feb 12 2017, 7:38 PM
SrSusan (guest): St Francis knew alot of people at court, kings court that is and many of those relationships were superficial
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Lisa C: Yes, I think it is easier the older we get.
Feb 12 2017, 7:39 PM
SrSusan (guest): Lots of paryting, dances and that sort of thing, esp among the wealthy
Feb 12 2017, 7:39 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, an unwillingness to go beyond the superficial is not good
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Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) i imagine that St. Francis would have encountered superficial friendships at court.. People were probably trying to ingratiate themselves to the King.
Feb 12 2017, 7:39 PM
SrSusan (guest): Friendship is a gift
Feb 12 2017, 7:39 PM
Ruth (guest): But I do not think we need to go deeply with all our acquaintances.
Guest8161 (guest): Make a friend , be a friend , introduce that friend to Christ !
Feb 12 2017, 7:40 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) I agree, Rut
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Carol Ann: True, Ruth. Most of us get one or two soul friends and more business, cgyrch, hobby friends
Feb 12 2017, 7:41 PM
Ruth (guest): It may even be a “gift” to be able to — with some, in some circumstances — remain rather superficial.
Feb 12 2017, 7:41 PM
Carol Ann: Oops. Church
Feb 12 2017, 7:41 PM
SrSusan (guest): The idea is to be drawn by God to a friend but not to seek one out to “use” the person
2 PM
SrSusan (guest): St Franis had deep spiritual friendships
Feb 12 2017, 7:42 PM
Carol Ann: True friendship is a give and take where both give and no one keeps score
Feb 12 2017, 7:42 PM
SrSusan (guest): In fact a new book is out on his friendship with St Jane
Feb 12 2017, 7:42 PM
Dawn (guest): mother, would you say even spiritually?
Feb 12 2017, 7:42 PM
SrSusan (guest): http://visitationspirit.org/2017/01/new-book-on-st-francis-de-sales-and-st-jane-de-chantal/
New Book on St Francis de Sales and St Jane de Chantal | Visitation Spirit
Ruth (guest): I was rather disappointed when at a Christmas gathering of a group that grew out of Women of Grace, a Faith-sharing Women’s group now, the talk remained rather superficial, unlike in previous years. And I had invited (as our hostess hand invited each of us to do) a good friend.
Feb 12 2017, 7:43 PM
Guest8161 (guest): I recently saw a report on an inner city church where the members really took time to build friendships with the mentally ill and homeless people who would stop in church instead of just handing them money ! Amazing friendships were built !
Feb 12 2017, 7:43 PM
Guest258 (guest): It is truly a special grace in today’s world to share a spiritual friendship
:44 PM
Ruth (guest): Yes, I saw that announcement about the new book on Visitation Spirit website.
Feb 12 2017, 7:44 PM
SrSusan (guest): Very interesting Guest 8161
7:45 PM
Dawn (guest): was thinking when you said using others, not sure why I thought of spiritually.
Feb 12 2017, 7:45 PM
Ruth (guest): Brian, yes, that is pretty much what Catholic Workers do, too.
Feb 12 2017, 7:46 PM
SrSusan (guest): A spiritual exchange in mutuality can be an agreement between 2 persons but not a “use” thing
6 PM
SrSusan (guest): A spiritual exchange in mutuality can be an agreement between 2 persons but not a “use” thing
Feb 12 2017, 7:46 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) Welcome aboard 677!
Feb 12 2017, 7:46 PM
Dawn (guest): thank you!
Feb 12 2017, 7:46 PM
SrSusan (guest): It is not easy to find a spiritual friend; again I think it is an openness we need to that potential gift
7:47 PM
SrSusan (guest): I had spiritual friends in a prayer group before I entered the Monastery, and then older friends who I socialized with , 7:48 PM
Carol Ann: There are different expectations for different types of friendships I think
Feb 12 2017, 7:49 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) I am very fortunate to have a friend with whom I can share on a spiritual level
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Guest677 (guest): Thank you. I’m looking for advice on how to be a friend to say coworkers or acquaintances that obviously are not trying to live a Godly life. Constant gossip and deceit. It sometimes gets very frustrating because I’d like to lead them to Jesus but sometimes feel like I’d rather have nothing to do with them because of their dishonesty 50 PM
SrSusan (guest): You have a real challenge that some of our chatters here also face
Feb 12 2017, 7:51 PM
Guest8161 (guest): Small prayer and share groups really can be great blessings ! One of the groups I know have been meeting for over 40 Years they have helped each other through everything in life!
Feb 12 2017, 7:51 PM
Guest258 (guest): My spiritual friendships are y deepest, but UST ike Mother there
Feb 12 2017, 7:52 PM
Guest258 (guest): are friends just to socialize with.
Feb 12 2017, 7:52 PM
Lisa C: Guest 677, maybe talking one on one is better than trying to change a group as they will lead each other in their ongoing patterns.
Feb 12 2017, 7:52 PM
Carol Ann: Trust is key to long lasting deep friendships. Private things that are revealed must not be repeated
Feb 12 2017, 7:52 PM
Ruth (guest): I have a problem with the local prayer group. It is very small now; with some I get along really well, but it is “led” by a lawyer, who committed a serious offense against me. I tried several times to get to talk with him about it, privately. Around Christmas I was at last able to address him DIRECTLY about it. He said he did not remember! And went off by himself.
Feb 12 2017, 7:52 PM
Guest677 (guest): I’ve taken this to confession and continue to pray about it. Sometimes I feel I’m the one not being Christlike because it’s so difficult to be around these people
3 PM
SrSusan (guest): Think of how Jesus felt around sinners
Feb 12 2017, 7:54 PM
Carol Ann: When someone gossips to me I try to change the subject and not get drawn in to also speaking negatively of the subject
Feb 12 2017, 7:54 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) 677, how long have you been with these people? If it is a year or longer and you see no change, you might have to let go of the situation. There is only so much that you can do and if you are not received well, “shake the dust from your shoes” and move on.
5 PM
Guest8161 (guest): 677 this sounds like a definite assignment you have from God ! You have a great opportunity to shine for Christ with people who don’t know him yet !
Feb 12 2017, 7:55 PM
Ruth (guest): Yes, in my work situation I ran into a similar problem, where an office manager, even when not challenged, came to me a swore to an absolute lie. Later she spread falsehoods with the owner. . . Not good! But a relief to be out of that situation.
Feb 12 2017, 7:55 PM
Guest677 (guest): Yes thank you. I think I may just need some space from them
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Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) 677, you also need to consider the effect these people are having on you. Getting “space” as you say, might be a good move.
Feb 12 2017, 7:58 PM
Dawn (guest): Jesus had many experiences that we can learn from. or its Him..he says Learn From Me
Feb 12 2017, 7:58 PM
Guest8161 (guest): Perseverance and never give up praying for them and being yourself in Christ ! Avoid pride and admit. Your mistakes to them . Our greatest witness is how we handle our mistakes!
Feb 12 2017, 7:58 PM
Ruth (guest): Interesting how differently — at least initially Judy and Brian discerned what Marie needed to do in that situation.
Feb 12 2017, 7:59 PM
Ruth (guest): And both are quite capable of being good spiritual friends.
2 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) Re: question 2 St. Francis’s words are right on the money regardless of the era in which they are read. Worldly friendships and good, holy friendships are part of the fabric of human existence whether in the 1400’s, 1800’s or the 21st century. False friendships can sneak up virtually out of nowhere.
Feb 12 2017, 8:02 PM
Lisa C: Yes, Dawn
Feb 12 2017, 8:02 PM
Guest8161 (guest): I have seen God change even the most difficult people sometimes it takes years !
3 PM
Ruth (guest): When praying for a particularly difficult or painful situation, sometimes it can be a tremendous help to invite/or accept the initiative of another — a truly spiritual friend — to pray about it instead of your praying about it yourself — especially if you find yourself getting too emotional when thoughts go back to the one or the situation that you know needs lots of prayer. 3 PM
Guest258 (guest): Pray for wise discerning
Feb 12 2017, 8:03 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) But good and holy friendships can emerge from a false friendship with a good resolution. the development of authentic caring and true respect, attention to shared prayer, and a genuine desire in both parties to live a holy life.
Feb 12 2017, 8:03 PM
Dawn (guest): I rented it small fee. She did have friends but maybe not superficial friends. The ones she had seem to play a part in her growing holiness
Feb 12 2017, 8:04 PM
Guest8161 (guest): That’s how He brought me back to Him ! A strong Christian friend I worked with many years never gave up on me ! Praise God !
Feb 12 2017, 8:05 PM
Ruth (guest): Thanks be to God! And he made you into a powerful witness to God’s loving mercy.
Feb 12 2017, 8:05 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) Reading Brian’s comments makes me feel like a very weak witness.
07 PM
Ruth (guest): Judy, each person’s “path” is his/her own. And their witness can reach others in different ways, because others have differing needs and personalities.
Feb 12 2017, 8:07 PM
Guest8161 (guest): Judy your great Faith Shines with every word you speak ! You have been an inspiration to me through some of the darkest hours ! Keep Shining Sister !
Feb 12 2017, 8:07 PM
Carol Ann: Sometimes we do not know how we have helped someone
Feb 12 2017, 8:08 PM
Dawn (guest): edith stein says something about, as many different people are as many different ways God calls us
Feb 12 2017, 8:08 PM
Ruth (guest): That is so true, Carol Ann. And Judy, your efforts DO show.
Guest8161 (guest): We have to avoid putting God in a box , He reaches out to others in soo many different ways ! It is soo cool to hear stories from others how God reached out to them !
Feb 12 2017, 8:12 PM
Ruth (guest): I remember, once, when I was on a leadership team for a retreat, with teens in my group in the Black Forest. One had clearly come just to have a cheap vacation. He did everything he could dream up to be disruptive. The other kids were serious about the retreat, and we all prayed for the one who was trying to make trouble. A year or so later I met some of the young people from the group. They shared with me, that this young man had done a complete turn around, and was now an active prayer group memeber.
Feb 12 2017, 8:14 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) On to the last question– While it is our duty to lave all people, that does not mean that we must remain in an unhealthy or false friendship. Love means wanting the best for the other. And a good self-love means wanting what is best for the self. When a false friendship is recognized, one can either work to change it for the good of both parties, or abandon the relationship in the best interests of both. Sometimes letting go is the highest form of love.
Feb 12 2017, 8:14 PM
Ruth (guest): Hope all is well – – – A while back I was looking at a Google map of the area — collisions everywhere along the main highway!
Feb 12 2017, 8:15 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (JUdy) duty to love all people, not lave.
Feb 12 2017, 8:15 PM
Carol Ann: Judy, sometimes we can hang on too long to these relationships , trying to help
Feb 12 2017, 8:16 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) That’s why I say that sometimes letting go is the highest form of love.
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VisitationSiste: Right here and than we will make a page for it on this website
Feb 12 2017, 8:19 PM
Guest8161 (guest): Sometimes I think we try to help too much and we get in Gods way of truly helping . I used to try to convert everybody at family parties . God told me in prayer to do the dishes at family parties . Soo are started doing the dishes and then I noticed everybody would at some point start talking about God !
Feb 12 2017, 8:19 PM
Lisa C: Did she heal someone or was she healed
Feb 12 2017, 8:19 PM
VisitationSiste: Wow!!
Feb 12 2017, 8:20 PM
VisitationSiste: Kind of both
Feb 12 2017, 8:20 PM
Dawn (guest): Found alert re evacuations in valley ….prayers for all!
Feb 12 2017, 8:20 PM
VisitationSiste: She prayed over a young boy- the one who sang at her funeral- sher had been healed earlier thru her prayers
Feb 12 2017, 8:20 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, Dawn, that’s the one I received
Feb 12 2017, 8:20 PM
Lisa C: That boy was wonderful
Feb 12 2017, 8:20 PM
VisitationSiste: Carol are you going to leave your home
Feb 12 2017, 8:21 PM
Ruth (guest): I have only very rarely have someone I considered a real friend, just “let go” of the friendship. About two or three years later she committed suicide. I still have a hard time coping with that . . . She was a social worker, a certified counselor . . .
1 PM
VisitationSiste: Would you rather e mail them to one of us
Feb 12 2017, 8:22 PM
Lisa C: Ruth, it cannot be your fault if someone does that. It is mental illness.
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Ruth (guest): Lisa, I know it is not my fault. But she was a friend. Perhaps I should have been a bit more “aggressive” about not letting her dismiss me as a friend when I was commissioned as a lay minister. She had had a very bad experience with a priest at her First Holy Communion. The whole family left the church. and “suddenly” I was a minister in that same Church.
Feb 12 2017, 8:24 PM
Guest258 (guest): Good night and God bless to all!E noted being g with you
Feb 12 2017, 8:25 PM
Dawn (guest): Oroville is 1.5 hr drive down the mountain from us. so we are up.the danger is for those in valley I think, can not imagine if the dam gives way.
Feb 12 2017, 8:25 PM
Ruth (guest): Dawn, do you need to evacuate
Feb 12 2017, 8:25 PM
Carol Ann: We must pray it holds until they can move everyone ou
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VisitationSiste: I will try creating a page here too with my Sister Antonia story and experiment
Feb 12 2017, 8:28 PM
Guest9950 (guest): (Judy) Thank God both of you are out of harm’s way!!!
Feb 12 2017, 8:28 PM
Lisa C: A page on this website?
Feb 12 2017, 8:28 PM
Ruth (guest): I, too will pray for all those in danger. We certainly do not need another version of Katrina!
Feb 12 2017, 8:29 PM
Lisa C: Mother, also put the Sr. Margaret Mary story
Feb 12 2017, 8:29 PM
Guest8161 (guest): Soo sorry Ruth ! I know the feeling ! One of our pharmacist had small local business over 30 years use to go out of his way to help soo many . New company took over residence he lost his business to out of town pharmacy . He got back into drinking and took his life ! I kept thinking before it happened that I should try and contact him . Never did it !
Feb 12 2017, 8:29 PM
Carol Ann: That is a good idea Sister !
Lisa C: And knowing when someone needs prayers being guided by the Holy Spirit to pray when we do not even know why
Guest8161 (guest): Amen Lisa !
Carol Ann: With contributer permission we can collect the stories into an inspirational book
Ruth (guest): Yes,
Guest9950 (guest): (
Carol Ann: God bless us every one!
Ruth (guest): I never know when to call it a “
Carol Ann: Amen Ruth
Guest8161 (guest): Amen Judy !
VisitationSiste: God bless!
Dawn (guest): praying all safely evacuate.
Lisa C: God be praised!
Ruth (guest): Good bless all of you!
Carol Ann: And that the dam holds
Ruth (guest): Yes,
Dawn (guest): thank you all ,
Carol Ann: Good nighf!
Dawn (guest): Thank you Lisa,
Ruth (guest): I have things to tidy up in the kitchen,
Dawn (guest): goodnight everyone!