Here’s the first 2 questions Saint Francis focuses heavily on modesty in this reflection. How might his understanding of modesty have a greater depth to our use of the term today, where we normally equate modesty strictly with not exposing one’s body?
How does orderliness and cleanliness invoke a certain sense of peace and serenity that clutter doesn’t? How do these qualities enhance our sense of self respect?
Carol Ann: Back in the day modesty also me ant nit pushing yourself forward demanding attention and praise
Mar 19 2017, 7:33 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hello Mother Lisa Carol Ann!
VisitationSiste: Hi Dawn! Good thought about modesty- so to speak, in action
Mar 19 2017, 7:35 PM
Dawn (Guest): ok…Im catching up then a thought
Mar 19 2017, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: Carol Anne, that was an insight about true modesty. All the way around
Mar 19 2017, 7:36 PM
Lisa C: Strange how modesty in dress is different over time. At one time ankles showing was immodest, and now it is very different.
Mar 19 2017, 7:36 PM
Dawn (Guest): One thing is…I believe how one dresses is a refection of their spirituality…or their relationship
Mar 19 2017, 7:36 PM
Carol Ann: Was it? My Mom taught me that
Mar 19 2017, 7:37 PM
Lisa C: I wonder how we are to draw lines when generations change.
017, 7:40 PM
Lisa C: Things are very clear in Catholic school, but for others not so clear in our society.
Mar 19 2017, 7:40 PM
Carol Ann: The Blessed Mother dressed as a woman of her time and place. I wonder what she would wear today
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Dawn (Guest): thinking about Mary, I imagine she was modest wore woven dresses and veils7:41 PM
Lisa C: Interesting that when she appeared at Fatima, Lourdes, etc. she was dressed in clothes from 2000 years ago. :42 PM
VisitationSiste: The connection comes from what you said before Carol Anne, that sense of an interior modesty of being
Mar 19 2017, 7:42 PM
Dawn (Guest): interesting thought Lisa..thank you
2 PM
Lisa C: Clothes may have been very similar to clothes thousands of years before her time. I think maybe she does not approve of the changes that are occurring.
Mar 19 2017, 7:42 PM
Carol Ann: That is, Lisa. Is she dressed that way in all the approved apparitions, do you know?
3 PM
Dawn (Guest): she usually has on white dress blue veils is that right?
Mar 19 2017, 7:43 PM
Guest3234 (Guest): Hi Dawn ! Doing Good . A bit exhausted . Looking forward to two week vacation at Easter time !
Mar 19 2017, 7:43 PM
Lisa C: Carol Ann the descriptions of the apparitions usually describe her clothing and the style is the same some colors may change on the edges, gold or not,
Mar 19 2017, 7:44 PM
Guest3234 (Guest): 8How are you doing Dawn !
Mar 19 2017, 7:44 PM
Carol Ann: Sr., that idea for me is tied to the idea of humility, of accepting the best and worst of yourself. Once you can do thst, there c us no more need to put yourself forward
Mar 19 2017, 7:44 PM
Lisa C: She was Jewish and married so her hair was covered
Mar 19 2017, 7:44 PM
Dawn (Guest): thats great Brian. family rest together time
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VisitationSiste: The second question mentions cleanliness and peace and serenity as building one on another I agree with that
Mar 19 2017, 7:47 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hello All; sorry I am late again. Just got home from a parish pot luck — and had to put away a few things and get the furnace fired up again.
Mar 19 2017, 7:47 PM
Carol Ann: )I have seen many other pictures of Mary, dressed as she would be as a matron in other cultures. It makes you realize she really is mother of us all
Mar 19 2017, 7:47 PM
Guest3234 (Guest): May be last time we are able to have vacation together with the kids getting older we were even able to get Lian to join us for 5 days .
Mar 19 2017, 7:47 PM
Lisa C: Mother, one chat you were talking about Sr. M. Cecelia’s group and her dilemma regarding how to discuss this topic. Did she find a way?
Mar 19 2017, 7:48 PM
VisitationSiste: She has been disappointed in that- hard to make progress
Mar 19 2017, 7:49 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Ruth!
Mar 19 2017, 7:49 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hi Lisa, Carol Ann, Sister, Brian I presume, and Dawn. Glad to be back with you. It’s been a very full — and good day. Which question are you on?
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Guest3234 (Guest): How beautiful Carol Ann !
Mar 19 2017, 7:50 PM
Carol Ann: https://www.pinterest.com/timberlinemist/mary/
Mar 19 2017, 7:50 PM
Ruth (Guest): Thanks.
Mar 19 2017, 7:51 PM
Carol Ann: I have one for Jesus pictures too!
Mar 19 2017, 7:51 PM
Guest3234 (Guest): Thank You ! Carol Ann
Mar 19 2017, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: Great!
Mar 19 2017, 7:52 PM
Dawn (Guest): will look at your pins Carol, thanks. will share mine too
Mar 19 2017, 7:52 PM
Lisa C: Mother, your suggestion to start with Blessed Mother, makes me think about this: When we are consecrated to her she puts her mantle over us. She covers us.
Mar 19 2017, 7:52 PM
Guest3234 (Guest): That’s great Carol Ann it is amazing to see our Lord And Mary depicted in cultures around the world !!!
Mar 19 2017, 7:52 PM
Dawn (Guest): that is a beautiful reflection Lisa
Mar 19 2017, 7:53 PM
Lisa C: It is protection, safety, modesty, sharing her way of being
Mar 19 2017, 7:53 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, Lisa
Mar 19 2017, 7:53 PM
Lisa C: We are in there with her
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VisitationSiste: estion 3 and 4 repeated
How can we put into effect St. Francis’ advice in the light of our modern tendency to be casual and “dress down” in so many places, such as work, and even Sunday Mass?
Where in your life could you use a bit more modesty or cleanliness?
Mar 19 2017, 7:55 PM
Carol Ann: Ruth, the link above should take you to may Pinterest board with multicultural pictures of Mary
Mar 19 2017, 7:55 PM
Ruth (Guest): And now, not only in France, but throughout the EU a woman can be fired from her job for wearing a scarf covering her head if her boss doesn’t want her to dress that way.
Mar 19 2017, 7:56 PM
Dawn (Guest): https://www.pinterest.com/dawnlaborde/mary/
:56 PM
Ruth (Guest): Thank you Carol Ann.
Mar 19 2017, 7:57 PM
Guest3234 (Guest): Soo important for us to shine before others ! I remember March for Life couple of years ago how the army of God was soo beautifully attired in every different color shining for our Lord Jesus Christ !
Mar 19 2017, 7:57 PM
Dawn (Guest): are we to answer this question here Mother?
Mar 19 2017, 7:58 PM
Carol Ann: Is there a difference in modesty in dress and dressing casually? A person can be casual and modest in dress at the same time
7, 7:59 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes I think it fits in Dawn because there is modesty but there is also respect and does casual always show respect even if modestPM
Dawn (Guest): living in a rural mountain area, winter attire is mainly to stay warm. I think living here there is a tendancy to be to “warm ” and casual during winter. although we have a small Mass I personally dress modest nice more earth colors, nothing flashly. overall I do see a tendancy for some dressing down at Mass
Mar 19 2017, 8:00 PM
VisitationSiste: And as Carol Anne pointed out, the eras we live in influence our styles but the era is often a secular one not necessarily Christian
8:01 PM
Carol Ann: No, depending on the situation, casual may not be appropriate even if modestPM
Ruth (Guest): Hmmm. Interesting. Dressing “up” for women often means nylon stockings and shoes that hurt your feet.
Mar 19 2017, 8:02 PM
Dawn (Guest): this is a good topic, important to think and hopefully have awareness come
3 PM
VisitationSiste: Again we begin to realize how much of our lives are influenced by non Christian sources:04 PM
Carol Ann: And skirts instead of pants. Interestingly enough, last time I bought a skirt, I was hunting for a slip to go with it and the clerk said they didn’t carry traditional clothing!
Mar 19 2017, 8:04 PM
VisitationSiste: Take the Amish or Mennonites and their dress- while very different they are certainly not following secular wear!
4 PM
VisitationSiste: Take the Amish or Mennonites and their dress- while very different they are certainly not following secular wear!
Mar 19 2017, 8:05 PM
VisitationSiste: The point though in modesty goes deeper than dress. I think it lies in humility of heart
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VisitationSiste: Modesty and humility seem similar to me
Mar 19 2017, 8:07 PM
Carol Ann: Me too!
Mar 19 2017, 8:07 PM
Ruth (Guest): Once I heard an Orthodox rabbi on Rosh Haussan (spelling?) I think it was, say it is better to wear comfortable shoes and not think about your feet but think about the Word than to wear [special non-leather shoes normally required on the holiday] than to distract yourself with your pain. And it is better to sit for parts of the service that normally require standing, if by standing you will be thinking about your pain. I thought Jesus might have said something similar.
Mar 19 2017, 8:07 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes, like modesty is a natural outcome of humility
:09 PM
Ruth (Guest): Funny Carol Ann, I looked for a slip, too, and the clerk had no idea what I meant. Same thing repeated in a couple of other stores. I had to describe what a slip was.
Mar 19 2017, 8:10 PM
Dawn (Guest): I see a growing trend ( online stores) of young woman, Christian, Jewish, Orthodox modest clothing. and attractive. its encouraging!
Mar 19 2017, 8:10 PM
Carol Ann: Now that is just sad. I thought it was a Southern California problem
Mar 19 2017, 8:10 PM
VisitationSiste: Are you back Brian?
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VisitationSiste: How about that question about clutter vs ordiliness and peace and serenity?
Mar 19 2017, 8:11 PM
Guest3234 (Guest): That’s great Dawn ! Yes I am back Sister Susan
Mar 19 2017, 8:11 PM
Ruth (Guest): No Carol Ann; this was in NY — in fact in the biggest city within about 60 miles from here.
Mar 19 2017, 8:11 PM
VisitationSiste: How does orderliness and cleanliness invoke a certain sense of peace and serenity that clutter doesn’t? How do these qualities enhance our sense of self respect?
:12 PM
Dawn (Guest): search modest clothing for women. also there are amish sites. if anyone is handy sewing clothes, this is always an option. I think Mother the Amish do this
Mar 19 2017, 8:12 PM
Carol Ann: Clutter is a disordered state when possessions start to take over
7, 8:13 PM
Lisa C: orderliness requires dicipline
Mar 19 2017, 8:14 PM
VisitationSiste: I think we all feel better when things get cleaned up!
Mar 19 2017, 8:14 PM
Ruth (Guest): Sister this one jabs me! I used to be so orderly. After a couple of traumatic events — including brain injury and having my bank account completely emptied by I don’t know who — I’ve cluttered up my home. I’m not proud of it one little bit. It also makes it a whole lot harder to be hospitable.
4 PM
Ruth (Guest): And I actually LIKE cleaning and tidying. It’s just I never get caught up.
Mar 19 2017, 8:15 PM
VisitationSiste: Some people are more natural at it but we have our tendencies. I need to work at this myself- esp when I have 10 things going at once
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Dawn (Guest): I notice when everything gets cluttered busy with toys, toddlers are very busy. But I noticed when it is to busy…it even affects them. so we have a stop clean up and its surprizing how that helps to restore more peacefulness..
Mar 19 2017, 8:15 PM
Guest3234 (Guest): It is one less burden when we declutter ! When we go out into a difficult world it is a relief to come home to a house that is not full of clutter . Easy to build up clutter though when we get caught up in busy life !
Mar 19 2017, 8:16 PM
Lisa C: St. Vincent de Paul used to want donations of things and clothing, but do not seem to anymore. Where can we donate things we do not need?
Mar 19 2017, 8:17 PM
Ruth (Guest): Partly, I think it was physically finding it hard to do many things that used to be easy: like washing dishes when there aren’t any gloves big enough to fit over my bandages, or carrying things up and down stairs, when I need to be sooooo careful not to fall.
8 PM
Ruth (Guest): You are right Brian. I remember that the first time my desk got cluttered was when I was working long hours in the clinic and then teaching 3 hours in the evening. When I got a break — a holiday — it seemed to me like an archaeological excavation just to clear my desk!
Mar 19 2017, 8:19 PM
Dawn (Guest): Lisa, we have local hospice thrift store and couple others. here we can simply take things to their store. calling first for times they accept donations
Mar 19 2017, 8:19 PM
Carol Ann: I agree with Ruth, when people are deeply traumatized, there is spiritual dis order while they are heaking, and that carrise over to environm e nt a l clutter
Mar 19 2017, 8:19 PM
Guest3234 (Guest): My clients love to shop at Salvation Army , Goodwill , and Savers in our area ! A lot of generous people in Buffalo Ny !
8:21 PM
VisitationSiste: Time management is important in de cluttering
Mar 19 2017, 8:21 PM
Dawn (Guest): speak of shopping, thrift stores are great place and it supports a charity usually!
Mar 19 2017, 8:22 PM
Guest3234 (Guest): If we start with one small area and complete that area it really helps !
, 8:23 PM
Dawn (Guest): it is just so very nice to enter a home that is clean orderly and uncluttered.!
Mar 19 2017, 8:23 PM
Carol Ann: And as we heal from traumas we find we are less tolerant of clutter
24 PM
Ruth (Guest): It can be — that was both physical and emotional trauma. . . When I was left with $2.73 in my only savings account in a different bank and both my personal and my business accounts were completely wiped out and I already had a ticket to fly from NYC to Denver but would not have even been able to get to the airport on my savings, I think I started hoarding. Not good! My mother used to save EVERYTHING, too. And we were/ I am good at repairing, reusing, recycling– long before that became a “environment
Mar 19 2017, 8:24 PM
Ruth (Guest): al concern.
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Guest3234 (Guest): We hang on to stuff others could really use ! Please keep Amy from St Luke’s Mission in Buffal has life threatening Pneumonia ! She is like Mother Theresa to Downtown Buffalo !
Mar 19 2017, 8:25 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes I know one, sister. Her charges are extremely high though. I did hire a couple of people for $15-$25/hr. and they just made EXTRA work for me.
Mar 19 2017, 8:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Ruth you have had challenging experiences to the hilt
Mar 19 2017, 8:26 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, a example of how the events of our lives can shape us
8:27 PM
Dawn (Guest): Brian is that the friars you are speaking of, the mission? :29 PM
Ruth (Guest): No fooling!, Sister. But somewhere in Scripture there’s something about considering challenges blessings. So when I am in a tough spot, I try to ask the Lord, What are you trying to teach me through this experience? Occasionally I’ve complained, “Please, just give me a copy of the syllabus! But the Lord is very, very patient and I am a slow learner. :30 PM
Ruth (Guest): I think that’s why he’s let me live this long. By all “normal” measures I should have been dead as many times as the cat who proverbial has nine lives.
Ruth (Guest): The Lord is patient. And he has some work for me to do — AND some work to do ON me.
Mar 19 2017, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: We are coming to the end of our session, would anyone stay on a while with the new guest
Mar 19 2017, 8:30 PM
Guest3234 (Guest): St Luke’s Mission of Mercy . They have fed and clothed and provided housing for people of every background for many many years ! Wonderful Ministry !! Amy Is a Saint !
Mar 19 2017, 8:31 PM
Carol Ann: It is the School of Virtue