Chatting about: Widowhood according to St Francis de Sales


Jun 14, 1:03 PM

VisitationSiste: Questions to Ponder: What do you make of the distinction between a “widow indeed” and a woman who is “widowed in externals”? Is Saint Francis diminishing the decision of widowed women who choose to move on to a new marriage? Why is it important to keep in mind the final point to which Saint Francis brings this reflection? In considering this, call to mind Jesus’ words:At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). Consider this

Jun 14, 1:04 PM

VisitationSiste: Consider this reflection in light of the activity of the early Church, when we learn in Acts 6 how changes were made to address the fact that “widows were being neglected in the daily distribution” (Acts 6:1). Why do you think this was such an important point that widows were specifically identified?

Jun 14, 1:06 PM

VisitationSiste: Would women who never marry benefit from taking such a vow? They often find themselves in a similar situation. Should they be encouraged to make such a vow after a certain age?

Jun 14, 1:06 PM

VisitationSiste: Sun June 18 730pm est

Jun 17, 11:16 AM

SrSusan (Guest): I will be at our Annual Sacred Heart Novena Sun nite at 730P so i won’t be at chat. I forgot about that last week!

 

Jun 18, 7:36 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Well, I don’t know about anyone else,but this lesson really got my hackles up. A widow is a widow whether she makes a vow to remain a widow or if she is open to the possibility of marrying again. While he is not openly demeaning widows who do not make the vow, I feel that he is at worst demeaning them and at the very least is consdescending toward them. It was not said, but I felt such an underlying tone to the section.

Jun 18, 7:36 PM

Alice Lewis-Eckardt: Hi Brian

Jun 18, 7:36 PM

Dawn (Guest): Hi Brian...Happy Fathers Day

Jun 18, 7:36 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Hi Ruth and Brian.

Jun 18, 7:37 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Hi Judy ! Brian

Jun 18, 7:38 PM

Carol Ann: Judy, it did seem to me that he was discouraging remarriage, as though a widow should not consider that first

Jun 18, 7:38 PM

Ruth (Guest): Hi Lisa, Carol Ann, Alice, Dawn, and “Guests” (Judy and Brian, I guess)

Jun 18, 7:38 PM

Dawn (Guest): At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). I am thinking how this scripture applies here, entirely? any thoughts?

Jun 18, 7:38 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Thanks Dawn !

Jun 18, 7:39 PM

Alice Lewis-Eckardt: I was curious about that as well. I wasn’t offended- just wondering what path to take

Jun 18, 7:40 PM

Ruth (Guest): Hot day cooling quickly with thunder, lightning, heavy rain and wind. I’d better go check windows left open.

Jun 18, 7:40 PM

Dawn (Guest): be safe Ruth hurry back

Jun 18, 7:40 PM

Alice Lewis-Eckardt: And if you don’t remarry, could you join a convent as well?

Jun 18, 7:40 PM

Lisa C: Maybe it all has to do with the fact that our relationship with God is all sufficient, and that marriage, if it is our vocation is something we have on earth that ends when we are in heaven.

Jun 18, 7:40 PM

Lisa C: Like any other vocation other than prayer

Jun 18, 7:41 PM

Lisa C: We can still pray from heaven

Jun 18, 7:41 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) I believe that it means that in Heaven, all will be equal in being like the angels. They will not marry or be given in marriage. In the Heavenly Kingdom, there will be no “need” for marriage because being with the Lord will be our total joy and fullfilllment.

Jun 18, 7:42 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Amen Judy !

Jun 18, 7:42 PM

Dawn (Guest): good comment Judy, seems right!

Jun 18, 7:43 PM

Carol Ann: That is my understanding too. That the narriage Vocation MIRTORS Our True Union With God

Jun 18, 7:43 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Spot on Carol Ann!

Jun 18, 7:43 PM

Carol Ann: Sorry about the auto correct

Jun 18, 7:44 PM

Guest110 (Guest): SooSoo true Carol Ann !

Jun 18, 7:45 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Did anyone else feel irritated by this lesson as I did?

Jun 18, 7:46 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) As I am thinking back on what St. FdeS said about marriage, I am even more surprised by his remarks in this section.

Jun 18, 7:46 PM

Lisa C: Not irritated, releived

Jun 18, 7:46 PM

Alice Lewis-Eckardt: I didn’t Judy. But maybe you could tell us more about why you felt that way?

Jun 18, 7:48 PM

Dawn (Guest): I could not judge it really, but thought it reflected an eariler time. then,...wasn’t sure about this either! I see many young women taking vows in church , with ceremony, consecrated virgin. but if one were to desire to take a vow of chasity, is this done in a ceremony?

Jun 18, 7:48 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) I just really felt that he thought less of widows who considered remarrying than of those who would take a vow of widowhood. As I said above, I felt that he was at worst demeaning of them, and at the very least consescending toward them.

Jun 18, 7:49 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Yes, a vow of chastity could be done in a ceremony planned by the woman and her spiritual director.

Jun 18, 7:49 PM

Carol Ann: Are there consecreted virgins in your parish Dawn? Not many have them again yet

Jun 18, 7:50 PM

Dawn (Guest): Judy, it is a long chapter. perhaps he is partial?

Jun 18, 7:50 PM

Dawn (Guest): none I know of Carol Ann. I have watched videos of ceremonys only. does yours?

Jun 18, 7:51 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) I know that there are some consecrated virgins in the Archdiocese of NY but I do not know any personally.

Jun 18, 7:52 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) yes, Dawn, he does show partiality.

Jun 18, 7:52 PM

Carol Ann: No, but the Cardinal was talking about bringing it back to the archdioceses. There are a couple of orders in the traditional style around the States

Jun 18, 7:52 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Always a temptation for us to place a greater or lesser value to a life devoted to service of God ! All devoted life in service to God is equal in God’s eyes !

Jun 18, 7:52 PM

Carol Ann: I met some a couple of years ago at a retreat they held in Pennsylvania

Jun 18, 7:53 PM

Carol Ann: BRB

Jun 18, 7:54 PM

Dawn (Guest): however, he does close the chapter by saying the true widow should never blame or censure those who enter into 2nd 3rd or even 4th marriages, for sometimes God thus orders events foor the advancement of His glory..

Jun 18, 7:55 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) I guess I kind of believe that the best life is that one to which the individual feels herself called by God. Single, married, consecrated, I don’t think that it makes a difference to God. All are in service to Him.

Jun 18, 7:55 PM

Guest110 (Guest): We have a great great Family with soo many serving God in soo many ways and everyone is equally important !!!

Jun 18, 7:55 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) I agree with that closing to the chapter.

Jun 18, 7:56 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) I wish Mother was here tonight. It would be helpful to get her insight.

Jun 18, 7:56 PM

Dawn (Guest): con’t: And one must always keep in mind that which the Fathers taught, that neither widowhood nor virginity have any merit in Heaven, except that which is assigned to them by humility.

Jun 18, 7:57 PM

Dawn (Guest): Amen Brian

Jun 18, 7:58 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) What really matters is that in whatever state, your love for the Lord is ever growing deeper and more passionate.

Jun 18, 7:58 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Happy Father’s Day to God Our Father who has given us a great opportunity to serve Him in this Life !!!

Jun 18, 7:59 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Yes, Heavenly Father, thank You for the gift of life and the ability to serve you in the world.

Jun 18, 8:00 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) And Happy Fathers’ Day to you Brian!

Jun 18, 8:01 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Soo many living around us in darkness ! Let us Shine God’s Love for them in all our actions everyday !

Jun 18, 8:02 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Shine Jesus, shine, fill the world with the Father’s glory. Blaze Spirit blaze; set our hearts on fire.

Jun 18, 8:03 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Thanks Judy ! You have to share one of your poems with us someday ! You are a gifted writer !

Jun 18, 8:03 PM

Ruth (Guest): hi! I’m back – will read what I can see of chat.

Jun 18, 8:03 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) I will have to search for a short poem. Many of my works are lengthy.

Jun 18, 8:04 PM

Dawn (Guest): a poem brought forth in prayer

Jun 18, 8:04 PM

Ruth (Guest): Whooo! Where

Jun 18, 8:04 PM

Guest110 (Guest): That would be great Judy !

Jun 18, 8:04 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) And thank you for the compliment, Brian!

Jun 18, 8:04 PM

Ruth (Guest): Where everybody

Jun 18, 8:04 PM

Ruth (Guest): go?

Jun 18, 8:05 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Your Welcome Judy !

Jun 18, 8:05 PM

Dawn (Guest): Im here and yes looks like some left?

Jun 18, 8:06 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Our gifts are all different. I am good with words, You, Brian are good with actions. Others have gifts of prayer, etc.

Jun 18, 8:06 PM

Dawn (Guest): Lisa Carol Ann

Jun 18, 8:10 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Considering Question 3- Marriage was held in great esteem by the Jewish people, many of whom were the first Christians. There were, apparently, some Hellenists among the early Church members and it is they who were complaining about the fact that their widows were not being adequately served. This indicated inequality in the way people were treated. It was obviously that all widows should receive the same service regardless of their nationality or lineage.

Jun 18, 8:10 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Amen Judy ! Please pray for Harry the man with triplets his one son is having difficulty potty training . His mother-in –law is moving in to help . He and other boys our scheduled to begin preschool at St Amelia in fall ! He is Hindu but has devotion for Saint Mother Theresa !

Jun 18, 8:11 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Let’s pray to St. Therese of Calcutta for him.

Jun 18, 8:12 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Amen Judy ! He could be next St Paul !!!

Jun 18, 8:12 PM

Dawn (Guest): In Jesus name, Amen

Jun 18, 8:15 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Wow ! We have soo much in USA and we should be able to take care of everybody but soo many obstacles get thrown at us to prevent this from happening ! That’s why Jesus encourages us to be One

Jun 18, 8:16 PM

Ruth (Guest): St. Theresa of Calcutta will likely – with our prayers and by the power of the Holy Spirit – bring him around . . . And there’s nothing like children to help us grow in the qualities God wants in his children – even the grown up ones.

Jun 18, 8:16 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Together with God ! We can take care of everyone !

Jun 18, 8:16 PM

Carol Ann: Happy Father’s Day

Jun 18, 8:16 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Finally, question 4. I do not think that never married women should be encouraged to make a vow unless they themselves bring up the possibility. It should certainly come from a conviction that God is leading her in that direction. The same is true for widows. In no way should either group of women have to face coercion to make such a vow. It should be an entirely free choice.

Jun 18, 8:17 PM

Dawn (Guest): amen Ruth. Little ones are very good teachers!

Jun 18, 8:18 PM

Guest110 (Guest): Soo true Judy !

Jun 18, 8:20 PM

Ruth (Guest): I think they are naturally humble – and kids have built-in bunk detectors. They – even like animals – simply know when they are loved . . .

Jun 18, 8:20 PM

Carol Ann: Such a vow is a serious matter, one that woukd v prevent marriage, which would still npbe an option for never-married and widows

Jun 18, 8:20 PM

Dawn (Guest): if a woman has a conviction to remain chaste, what is the benefit of making a vow of chasity in a ceremony? I would think it is the power of the Holy Spirit ..who would strengthen this conviction

Jun 18, 8:22 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) I would appreciate if if everyone would hold in prayer during this week four wonderful young Salesians who will be ordained to the Holy Priesthood on June 24th. I have been following these men since they started their journey and my heart is overflowing with joy at their coming ordination. The four are Paul Chu, Jean Wilgintz Polynice, Dieunel Victor and Minh Dang. I know that they will appreciate your prayers.

Jun 18, 8:22 PM

Ruth (Guest): And among my first teachers of German was a 5 year old in the house where I rented a room. I ‘d read her stories and she would correct my pronunciation – so patiently. And if she were trying to tell me something and I did not understand, she ‘d go and get my German-English dictionary and hand it to me.

Jun 18, 8:22 PM

Dawn (Guest): haha I agree Ruth. they have supernatural detectors of those around them, esp strangers!

Jun 18, 8:23 PM

Carol Ann: We will! Please pray for us too as the brothers and sisters of my region are gathering for retreat next weekend

Jun 18, 8:23 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Sure will!

Jun 18, 8:24 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Will you be making that retreat, Carol Ann?

Jun 18, 8:24 PM

Dawn (Guest): Will keep them in my prayers....four new priests! Praise be to Jesus!

Jun 18, 8:25 PM

Carol Ann: Yes

Jun 18, 8:25 PM

Guest110 (Guest): We do an open microphone opportunity on Kairos weekend and Men are invited to speak with no coercion or pressure ! One man who was committed to getting to know God and has two young children age 2 and 4 wil be leaving prison in few months. He immediately got up and spoke and set in motion an incredible time of sharing by the participants ! When we follow God’s call we set in motion others to follow God’s calling !

Jun 18, 8:25 PM

Ruth (Guest): Good question Dawn. I thought that there was some confusion being expressed about the difference between chastity and celibacy. EVERYONE is obliged to chastity but not everyone to celibacy. And chastity for an unmarried person is different from chastity for a married person.

Jun 18, 8:25 PM

Dawn (Guest): your brothers and sisters also Carol Ann

Jun 18, 8:25 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Have a truly blessed retreat, a most prayerful and profitable one.

Jun 18, 8:26 PM

Carol Ann: It is going to be great fun to see everyone

Jun 18, 8:27 PM

Dawn (Guest): meaning....chastity more temporary and celibacy more permanent? I will look this up !

Jun 18, 8:27 PM

Dawn (Guest): Carol Ann, my prayers for your retreat

Jun 18, 8:28 PM

Dawn (Guest): thanks for sharing this story Brian!

Jun 18, 8:28 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) chastity and celibacy are both permanent. Chastity in married people means that they are faithful to each other forever. For singles, means that they are celibate forever if they never marry.

Jun 18, 8:29 PM

Carol Ann: Thank you everyone ! We all are travelling to get to the retreat center, so extra prayers help

Jun 18, 8:29 PM

Guest110 (Guest): We will be praying for them Judy and Carol Ann will pray for the retreat ! Thank you all for prayers for Kairos Men and Women . Two awesome retreats !!!

Jun 18, 8:29 PM

Carol Ann: What would we do without our brothers and sisters?

Jun 18, 8:31 PM

Guest1223 (Guest): (Judy) Let us thank our Precious Lord for the tremendous gift He has given to us in the Eucharist, on this Solemnity of the Body and Blood of the Lord. What a glorious truth to celebrate! How sweet the union with our beloved Master and Teacher, Savior and Lord. Have a blessed week everyone!

Jun 18, 8:31 PM

Ruth (Guest): Prayers for all of you and for your special concerns. I will be on retreat the weekend of June 24-25. June 30th I have to see my orthopedic surgeon in Saratoga – about the OTHER (rt) knee that is giving me so much trouble now. And after that drive to Haverhill, MA where my brother is now in hospice care. He is the last of my close relatives.

Jun 18, 8:31 PM

Dawn (Guest): keeping you all in my prayers, and your intentions. also for Mother Susan and the sisters. thank you for a wonderful chat! God Bless you all, g’night

Jun 18, 8:31 PM

Guest110 (Guest): I Thank God for you all ! I keep you all in my prayers day and night ! Keep Shining ! God Bless You ! Brian

Jun 18, 8:32 PM

Carol Ann: Oh my goodness Ruth!

Jun 18, 8:32 PM

Carol Ann: God bless us every one

Jun 18, 8:34 PM

Dawn (Guest): Ruth, so you will miss some chat? keeping you in my prayers! +++

Jun 18, 8:35 PM

Ruth (Guest): BTW re: a vow not to remarry – see Bishop Barron’s commentary on the Sunday readings for a “for instance” a widow who became a Carmelite. I’ll look for a link.

Jun 18, 8:36 PM

Carol Ann: There are many widows in cloister

Jun 18, 8:39 PM

Dawn (Guest): Carol Ann, does your order wear habits?

Jun 18, 8:40 PM

Carol Ann: Only when we gather as an order, the monastic do wear them, but we tend not to as we are working secular jobs

Jun 18, 8:40 PM

Dawn (Guest): ok, thank you

Jun 18, 8:40 PM

Ruth (Guest): Here’s the link: https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/15cb55a28990ba51

Jun 18, 8:41 PM

Carol Ann: Thank you Ruth

Jun 18, 8:41 PM

Ruth (Guest): You can get Bishop Barron’s brief reflections on the Gospels e-mailed to you daily.

Jun 18, 8:42 PM

Dawn (Guest): it would no open for some reason, I will look at his talks. thanks

Jun 18, 8:43 PM

Carol Ann: The link took me to my email, but I think Bishop’s website has it titoo

Jun 18, 8:44 PM

Ruth (Guest): correction: that link was for Saturday’s readings.

Jun 18, 8:45 PM

Dawn (Guest): Ruth, did the storm come thru? beautiful storms! stay safe. G’night to both of you. I will look for it, married widow to Carmelite. peace

Jun 18, 8:46 PM

Carol Ann: Good night and God bless !

Jun 18, 8:48 PM

Ruth (Guest): Oh, I see. When I clicked on it, it took me first to my e-mail and then to that particular one. Maybe this will help you get on his e-mail list. It’s free. wof@wordonfire.org via s6.acems2.com

Jun 18, 8:49 PM

Carol Ann: I will look it up. Now there are two dogs looking at me like “are you planning to walk us anytime today ?!

Jun 18, 8:52 PM

Ruth (Guest): Sweet. I lost my precious pussy pet , Atta, aka “Angel feathers” about a month ago – to an eagle, I believe, or some other raptor. The one cat I have left now evidently misses her, too, although he used to be downright rejecting of her. She had a way to make anyone warm up to her. Poor Atta! I miss her more than I could have thought I would. I raised her by hand on bottled cat formula from age 3 weeks.

Jun 18, 8:54 PM

Ruth (Guest): I’ve been wonder – just a little – if losing her was “meant” to free me of one small obstacle to some other life change.

Jun 18, 8:55 PM

Ruth (Guest): Peace my friend. Nice that you can have dogs, and that they plead with you silently, with their eyes rather than with barking.

Jun 18, 8:56 PM

Ruth (Guest): Good night.

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