Chatting about: Treatise on Love of God Book 1

Now that we finished going through An Introduction to the Devout Life, we are going to move into Saint Francis’ Treatise on the Love of God. This time around we will have accompanying videos and reflections to give you a new way to embrace his timeless wisdom. We begin with with Francis’s Understanding of Human Nature.

SrSusan (Guest): Do you find Francis’ view of human nature to be a helpful one both personally and pastorally? Why or why not?

4. St. Francis de Sales speaks about the soul having three parts:an inferior part that relies on senses and instincts, a superior part that relies on reason and intellect, and as supreme part in which the soul is aware of the reality of God and, through grace, can freely respond to God. Do you think this is an optimistic or pessimistic view of human nature? Why?

Dec 17, 7:21 PM

Judy (Guest): Hi Everyone! Happy Gaudete Sunday! I heard from Carol Ann and she is back in her home. However, she said that she probably not be with us tonight. Her own parish church is closed because of the danger. Another is welcoming them for Mass this evening. Let us keep Carol Ann and all the folks in CA in our prayers. This is truly a living hell for them.

Dec 17, 7:22 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes and a long haul!

Dec 17, 7:24 PM

Judy (Guest): Will every week have the same format as this week? The questions are very short and so are the responses.

Dec 17, 7:25 PM

SrSusan (Guest): The first week we used prepared questions from another course on Treatise I think we need to developour own But the Treatise is not an easy work

Dec 17, 7:35 PM

Judy (Guest): Well, here goes the first section. Two examples of passions or instinctive responses, not necessarily from my life.First, swat a mosquito before it has a chance to bite, and second, pick up a baby before it starts tpo cry.

Dec 17, 7:36 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Passion- a desire for ice cream

Dec 17, 7:37 PM

Judy (Guest): Darn computers!! They are great when they work properly but a real trial when they do not.

Dec 17, 7:38 PM

SrSusan (Guest): another one- book crazy

Dec 17, 7:38 PM

Dawn (Guest): Passion – warming oneself by fire when cold

Dec 17, 7:39 PM

Judy (Guest): One might want to instinctively throw the computer out the window when it is not working properly.

Dec 17, 7:39 PM

SrSusan (Guest): And what St Francis calls affections

Dec 17, 7:39 PM

Lisa C: I was confused about what chapter(s) we did

Dec 17, 7:39 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Book 1 Chapters 1 to 5 on the video

Dec 17, 7:39 PM

Dawn (Guest): yes Judy

Dec 17, 7:40 PM

SrSusan (Guest): The video summarizes a group of chapters The chapters are long I think we need to adjust how the book is done somewhat

Dec 17, 7:40 PM

Judy (Guest): Affections: write a letter to a friend from whom you have not heard in a while; changing your diet to improve health.

Dec 17, 7:40 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Good examples

Dec 17, 7:41 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Prevent an argument by yielding to the other person?

Dec 17, 7:42 PM

Judy (Guest): Oo, that’s a good one!!

Dec 17, 7:42 PM

Amy Cochran: That is difficult for me to do, Sister

Dec 17, 7:42 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Aha religious life will be tough if that is not developed!

Dec 17, 7:43 PM

SrSusan (Guest): But we work on it here all the time!!!

Dec 17, 7:43 PM

Amy Cochran: I guess it’s developing a greater sense of humility

Dec 17, 7:43 PM

SrSusan (Guest): That is it I think you have it- not easy

Dec 17, 7:44 PM

Lisa C: Imagine how it was with 50 Nuns

Dec 17, 7:44 PM

Judy (Guest): It is also having self-control.

Dec 17, 7:44 PM

SrSusan (Guest): What I found “interesting “ in a chart on the video was the hierarchy and how the woman is listed below the man- today the two would probably be side by side in a chart

Dec 17, 7:44 PM

Amy Cochran: The Blessed Mother, in the Revelations of St.Bridget, showed such great humility by praying to be the handmaiden of the Mother of the Savior

Dec 17, 7:45 PM

Lisa C: And how demons are above humans

Dec 17, 7:45 PM

SrSusan (Guest): True Lisa but in a large commmunity one can hide better

Dec 17, 7:45 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes that too Lisa because they were angels I imagine

Dec 17, 7:46 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes our Blessed Mother is our model for true humility

Dec 17, 7:46 PM

Lisa C: So if demons are above humans the levels do not imply worth

Dec 17, 7:46 PM

SrSusan (Guest): What would our Mother do in any given situation is a good thing to ask oneself

Dec 17, 7:46 PM

Lisa C: I was also going to say that Blessed Mother had the highest place of all humans who were not God so God did not mean women were low

Dec 17, 7:47 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Hi Jennifer Are you in the airport now

Dec 17, 7:47 PM

Ruth (Guest): I had the same observations, sister. Again, I think,SFdS is partly at least representing his times.

Dec 17, 7:47 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Hi Ruth Yes you are no doubt right

Dec 17, 7:47 PM

Jennifer Koo: Yes, waiting area

Dec 17, 7:47 PM

Judy (Guest): Hi Ruth and Jennifer!

Dec 17, 7:47 PM

Jennifer Koo: Boarding soon

Dec 17, 7:48 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Many blessings Jennifer and soak up all the grace you can

Dec 17, 7:48 PM

Judy (Guest): Have a safe flight!

Dec 17, 7:48 PM

Jennifer Koo: Hi, MOTHER, Judy , Ruth and all

Dec 17, 7:48 PM

SrSusan (Guest): What a special opportunity for you

Dec 17, 7:48 PM

Jennifer Koo: Yes, MOTHER

Dec 17, 7:48 PM

Ruth (Guest): St. Thomas Aquinas believed that the soul of a boy baby entered the fetus at an earlier age than the soul of a girl fetus.

Dec 17, 7:49 PM

Jennifer Koo: Yes, thanks be to GOD

Dec 17, 7:49 PM

Judy (Guest): How’s that for being sexist!

Dec 17, 7:49 PM

Amy Cochran: I never heard that before about boy vs girl souls

Dec 17, 7:49 PM

Ruth (Guest): Jennifer, where are you flying to?

Dec 17, 7:49 PM

Lisa C: He also believed that we were not human from conception

Dec 17, 7:50 PM

SrSusan (Guest): How did I miss that?

Dec 17, 7:50 PM

Jennifer Koo: I heard that the only dangerous time would be eve and Christmas at Bethlehem

Dec 17, 7:50 PM

Ruth (Guest): and the bit about parts of the soul, I have a problem with that, too.

Dec 17, 7:50 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Will you be there then?

Dec 17, 7:50 PM

Lisa C: I guess they do not teach much about what he got wrong

Dec 17, 7:50 PM

Amy Cochran: Does anyone know where we were before conception? Was the soul created at conception, or were we inheaven?

Dec 17, 7:50 PM

SrSusan (Guest): I think its a construct Ruth not the reality

Dec 17, 7:50 PM

Ruth (Guest): Sounds to me like the Jewish –– Chabala –– belief.Parts of the soul can enter and leave.

Dec 17, 7:51 PM

Lisa C: Amy I think it is created at conception, but God knew about us before He made us

Dec 17, 7:51 PM

Jennifer Koo: Yes, if they is an attack, it could be when having mass

Dec 17, 7:51 PM

SrSusan (Guest): “When St. Monica was about to give birth to the great St. Augustine, she dedicated him by repeated acts of oblation to the Christian religion and the service of God’s glory. He testifies to this and says that “he had already tasted God’s salt within his mother’s womb.”“The story contains a great lesson, for it tells Christian women to offer up to God’s Majesty the fruit of their wombs even before it comes into the world. At such times, God, who accepts the offerings of a humble and willing heart, is wont to

Dec 17, 7:52 PM

SrSusan (Guest): wont to inspire a mother’s affections.”

Source: St. Francis de Sales :Introduction to the Devout Life,Part 3, Chapter 38, p224, Ryan’s edition

Dec 17, 7:52 PM

Ruth (Guest): I think the soul is ONE in each individual –– the principle of that person’s being. But the Kabahlists believed that a person’s soul could enter and leave him, and even enter someone or an animal –– so when you eat a fish you could be eating part of your Aunt’s soul. Wooo!

Dec 17, 7:52 PM

Amy Cochran: Yesm tje bible states that before your were knitin the womb I knew you. But, it seems so fuzzy, doesn’t make sense

Dec 17, 7:53 PM

Lisa C: Interesting, because I did that with M and even baptized her with melted ice cubes in the delivery room before we went upstairs and offered her to God

Dec 17, 7:53 PM

Amy Cochran: Mymother used to say that when the newborn baby smiled as they do, that they were still talking with the angels

Dec 17, 7:53 PM

Jennifer Koo: Interesting

Dec 17, 7:54 PM

SrSusan (Guest): because we can “know” what is good, does not always mean that we choose to do it. Do you find Francis’ view of human nature to be a helpful one both personally and pastorally? Why or why not?

Dec 17, 7:55 PM

Judy (Guest): Amy, God knew each and every one of us before we were conceived. We were conceived in the mind of God before we were conceived in our mother’s womb.

Dec 17, 7:56 PM

Jennifer Koo: Thus he know what is best for us

Dec 17, 7:57 PM

Judy (Guest): I think that St. F. view of human nature is helpful. It helps us to understand why we sin. We know the difference between right and wrong, but sometimes we act irrationally and do what we know is wrong.

Dec 17, 7:59 PM

Amy Cochran: when you close your eyes, you feel your soul, or maybe it can be called ego by psychologists. I was told that the soul achieves the age of about 33. I think that is why people with dementia are so unable to recognize self in the mirror as they always perceive themselves to be someone younger. I’ve asked many elderly people to close their eyes and describe themselves. When they speak from the heart, the description of self is not what we see eternally. I can’t eplain it, but it seems right

Dec 17, 7:59 PM

SrSusan (Guest): St Francis had a good understanding of human nature for his time

Dec 17, 7:59 PM

Ruth (Guest): True Jennifer. We are HIS creation. Bishop Barron points out that the “fall” of Adam in the Garden AND the recent decision of the US Supreme Court represent the same,serious, sin –– to make ourselves equal to God.

Dec 17, 8:00 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Much of what he writes in other works we can apply immediately

Dec 17, 8:00 PM

SrSusan (Guest): This work tho needs study

Dec 17, 8:00 PM

Lisa C: This one is more abstract

Dec 17, 8:01 PM

Amy Cochran: yesm I have some catching up to do

Dec 17, 8:02 PM

Lisa C: but it is also very wordy, and gives too many examples for each concept in my opinion

Dec 17, 8:02 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes many of us find it difficult but there are extraordinary pats in it esp after the first 4 sections

Dec 17, 8:02 PM

SrSusan (Guest): parts

Dec 17, 8:02 PM

SrSusan (Guest): He is very image oriented

Dec 17, 8:02 PM

Lisa C: Yes, I think it covers every human situation

Dec 17, 8:03 PM

Ruth (Guest): I am willing to study it; there is always something to learn, but I see some problems with it. SFdS seems to equate “soul” with ego-functions or vise versa, since the St. predates the use of t he psychological terms.

Dec 17, 8:04 PM

SrSusan (Guest): You would know better than I what is an ego function

Dec 17, 8:05 PM

Ruth (Guest): BTW Amy, I think when you wrote (above)description . . . not what we see ETERNALLY it was a typo and you meant EXTERNALLY.

Dec 17, 8:05 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Pastorally I thinkk he was good but today again the approach would be different in some cases

Dec 17, 8:06 PM

Judy (Guest): I think that his view of the soul as having three parts is an optimistic view of hu,an nature because the supreme part raises us abpve the mere senses and even intellect to be able to know and communicate with the Diving Lord.

Dec 17, 8:06 PM

Amy Cochran: thank you

Dec 17, 8:08 PM

SrSusan (Guest): St Francis was an optimist and his spirituality is optimistic

Dec 17, 8:09 PM

Lisa C: Saints would be optimistic, because they know God

Dec 17, 8:09 PM

Judy (Guest): Oops. that should be Divine Lord.This comes through grace which is a supernatural gift through which we participate in the life of God Himself. His life is within us and and He reveals Himself to us in many ways, some intellectual and rational and others in an entirely spiritual way through prayer and the sacramental life.

Dec 17, 8:10 PM

Lisa C: Yesterday I watched a movie about J-P I on the Formed website. We never hear about him, because he was Pope for such a short time, but he was really wonderful

Dec 17, 8:10 PM

SrSusan (Guest): True Lisa but his personality was also moderate say compared to St Louis de Montfort

Dec 17, 8:10 PM

Ruth (Guest): The documents show that he was a very good preacher/teacher . . . pastorally, but it seems to me, so far, that the cultural gap is difficult to bridge, even though a lot of the terms presented in these first four chapters –– in the usuage the way he uses them –– seem familiar, perhaps because they were “built” upon Thomistic philosophy and theology, which was emphasized at St. John’s U. when I was there.

Dec 17, 8:10 PM

Lisa C: They have really good movies

Dec 17, 8:12 PM

SrSusan (Guest): He emulayed St Augustine I know that as St Francis chose him for our Rule- I mean St Augustines Rule for the Visitation

Dec 17, 8:12 PM

Amy Cochran: Right on, Judy. Grace is a gift,

Dec 17, 8:12 PM

SrSusan (Guest): emulated

Dec 17, 8:12 PM

SrSusan (Guest): And grace is poured out abundantly and we must receive it willingly

Dec 17, 8:12 PM

Lisa C: That is why he is on the window?

Dec 17, 8:13 PM

Ruth (Guest): Judy, it is precisely because our Divine Lord was a DIVING Lord –– diving down into humanity, even helplessness as an infant –– that it has become for us easier to relate to the ONE who is totally other, AND just like us in eveything but sin.I love your “slip of the finger” –– as in “slip of the tongue.“

Dec 17, 8:14 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): Yes on the window He is our “grandfather” so to speak

Dec 17, 8:14 PM

Judy (Guest): Neat interpretation of a “slip of the finger.“

Dec 17, 8:15 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): St. Augustine, Visitandines “Grandfather”By Sister Susan Marie on August 28th, 2015220px-Augustinus_1St. Francis de Sales had an “Augustinian cast of mind”, it has been said.Certainly he respected this great doctor of the Church and chose the Rule of St. Augustine for the Visitation Order that he founded with St Jane de Chantal.That is why we call St Francis de Sales our “holy Father” and St Augustine our “grandfather”.St. Augustine had a preponderant influence on Francis de Sales.He cites him numerous tim

Dec 17, 8:15 PM

Lisa C: Agustine, John, Francis, Jane, Agatha, Philimon, Holy Spirit Gifts, Holy Spirit, Jesus, Mary, who is on the third altar window

Dec 17, 8:16 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): He cites him numerous times in the Treatise,especially from his Confessions and the City of God.
What struck St. Francis, among others things,in the teachings of Augustine was the prevalence and power of love, especially the
love of God. Augustine certainly understood the role and importance
of reason in the act of faith.

Dec 17, 8:16 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): St Joseph

Dec 17, 8:16 PM

Lisa C: I thought it should be but we could not see those windows

Dec 17, 8:17 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): We are talking about the windows in our chapel

Dec 17, 8:17 PM

Lisa C: John is on the window because his gospel is all about love, I think

Dec 17, 8:17 PM

Lisa C: Maybe there is another reason

Dec 17, 8:17 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): Jennifer must be boaerding the plane now to the Holy Land

Dec 17, 8:17 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): boarding

Dec 17, 8:18 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): Any other comments for the topic? Is it something we want to continue? After Christmas tho not next week

Dec 17, 8:19 PM

Judy (Guest): I think that John’s Gospel is deeper and more theological than the Synoptics. Also John is a poet and his Gospel reflects that.

Dec 17, 8:20 PM

Judy (Guest): Yes, we should continue. We have just opened the door. Let’s open it further and enter into the rooms within.

Dec 17, 8:20 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): John’s seems more mystical

Dec 17, 8:21 PM

Dawn (Guest): I am in agreement to continue

Dec 17, 8:22 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): Do you want to skip Ny eve too or have a chat

Dec 17, 8:22 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): We have plenty of material to continue!

Dec 17, 8:23 PM

Ruth (Guest): I’m fine with continuing. Still, we are talking about over a thousand years between the “father” of the Visitation order and the “grandfather” –– many, many generations.

Dec 17, 8:23 PM

Dawn (Guest): I will use x time before next chat to study

Dec 17, 8:23 PM

Judy (Guest): I would open to chatting on NY eve. I don’t usually do anything special so chatting would be great.

Dec 17, 8:23 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): Yes very logical Ruth!

Dec 17, 8:23 PM

Amy Cochran: I;m open in NY Eve

Dec 17, 8:23 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): Ok we can skip Christmas eve but go for New Year’s eve

Dec 17, 8:24 PM

Dawn (Guest): Yes to NY eve

Dec 17, 8:25 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): I can post here earlier the link to the next video before the newslatter goes out so you have more time to watch

Dec 17, 8:26 PM

Dawn (Guest): thank you

Dec 17, 8:26 PM

Judy (Guest): Jesus is the gift that never stops giving. He gave Himself in the manger at Bethlehem and in so many ways during His life. He continues to give Himself today in the Eucharist. Let us welcome Him with open hands, open hearts and open homes. He wants to come to us. Have a holy and joyful Christmas everyone!

Dec 17, 8:27 PM

Sr Susan (Guest): A most blessed Christmas to you all. Let’s remember Brain and Carol Anne too

Dec 17, 8:27 PM

Lisa C: God bless all of you and your families

Dec 17, 8:28 PM

Ruth (Guest): Beautiful blessing, Judy. May He fill you even more abundantly with his Grace this Christmas and throughout the year to come.

Dec 17, 8:28 PM

Ruth (Guest): All of you, my dear Chat Sisters and brother.

Dec 17, 8:29 PM

Dawn (Guest): Merry joyful Christmas to all of you~

Dec 17, 8:30 PM

Ruth (Guest): Thank you Dawn, and you,too. Amy, so good that you are back with us.

Dec 17, 8:31 PM

Dawn (Guest): and prayers , thinking of Carol Ann.

Dec 17, 8:32 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes, I read briefly before I signed on that she was back in her home, or doing well, anyway, but in the news I read that the winds were making the fires in the south of California even worse –– and much harder to manage.

Dec 17, 8:34 PM

Dawn (Guest): tramatic..... fire behavior so unpredictable.

Dec 17, 8:34 PM

Ruth (Guest): Prayers for Carol Ann and all those struggling with or even worrying about the fire.

Dec 17, 8:36 PM

Dawn (Guest): there has been no rain or snow here, N Cal , and certainly in S Cal. I don’t recall any past year like this

Dec 17, 8:38 PM

Dawn (Guest): Hi Amy, glad you are back. see you all on NY eve,God bless You. goodnight

Dec 17, 8:38 PM

Ruth (Guest): And now I have to go out and face the cold again.Worked five plus hours outdoors –– while just getting over the flu –– to try to get my car and/or truck on the road. It was a beautiful, sunny, though cold day. Both vehicles are now “open” to the weather. I can close the little car hood and take in the trickle charger. It worked fine. But I think there is a short in the heating system in the car, making it impossible to turn it off completely, so I may have the same problem in the morning.

Dec 17, 8:39 PM

Dawn (Guest): I was unaware you were with the flu Ruth.

Dec 17, 8:39 PM

Ruth (Guest): Good battery, but even that can be drained.Opposite problem in the house, the oil burner shuts off every couple of hours, so when it gets really cold –– 59 now is OK;was down to 47! –– I awaken –– or else the freeze alarm goes off . . .

Dec 17, 8:40 PM

Dawn (Guest): hope you are feeling better....try to stay warm!

Dec 17, 8:42 PM

Ruth (Guest): And I had to use de-icer with a lubricant and a lot of muscle power to get the truck doors open. One can’t close now! So I’d better get out there and make a tent around the door; more snow is expected around midnight.

Dec 17, 8:45 PM

Ruth (Guest): I wish we could share our precipitation with California. In December we typically get 26 days with snowfall out of 30 (or 31?) and in January 29 snow days.

Dec 17, 8:46 PM

Amy Cochran: Good night, all. Thank you for a thoughtful and wonderful hour

Dec 17, 8:46 PM

Ruth (Guest): Good night Dawn! Good night Amy! Prayerful best wishes for this beautiful season.

Dec 17, 8:48 PM

Dawn (Guest): Thank you, Good night...!

Chatting about: Treatise on Love of God Book 1

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