Chatting about: Faith and Reason

 

VisitationSr (Guest): Questions to Ponder: Why do you think we are so prone to falling into the behavior as described above? Do you ever find yourself guilty of seeking a benefit for yourself that are quick to deny another person? Think about the opening sentence of this reflection: “Reason is the special characteristic of man, and yet it is a rare thing to find really reasonable men…” Do you find this ironic? Why is it that as the only creatures embued with the ability to reason, we often do not make good use of our reasoning power?

 

May 21, 7:26 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): Hello All! It’s Judy.

 

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) For question 1: I can think of two reasons for falling into the behavior mentioned: weakness and greed.

May 21, 7:37 PM

VisitationSiste: So forall of the modern world’s disdain, faith lives

 

May 21, 7:37 PM

Guest8077 (Guest): Graduation was wonderful thank you all for your prayers ! Candlelight ceremony Friday night ! Awards ceremony Sat morning followed by reception . Beautiful Mass at 430 for entire Graduating Class at St Bonaventure . Graduation was beautiful Sunday Morning and we had beautiful Graduation dinner and Mothers Day Celebration in the afternoon . Janet’s Mom and Dad were able to make the whole weekend with us . Beautiful ! Soo happy for Lian ! Praise God !!!

May 21, 7:37 PM

Dawn (Guest): Amen

May 21, 7:37 PM

VisitationSiste: Weakness- yes and one form of that weakness is the greed you mention

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Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) Congratulations to the happy graduate. May she find much success and happiness as she continued on her journey of life.

May 21, 7:39 PM

VisitationSiste: It was interesting about benefits that one mite deny to another but accept oneself- a real possibility for those in authority

 

May 21, 7:40 PM

VisitationSiste: sometimes leaders do what they tell others not to do!

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VisitationSiste: so maybe power is another reason for the behavior

 

May 21, 7:41 PM

Guest8077 (Guest): Thank You Judy I have heard Paris is wonderful . While we were in Olean I visited newly named Basilica St Marys in Olean . Lian had helped out there and I was overwelmed by the beauty of this church . Incredible !

May 21, 7:41 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) In response to question 2, I cannot recall an occasion when I have sought benefits and denied them to others.

:41 PM

Lisa C: Reason should seek truth and that requires logic and premises which are true. In this society so many people think that truth is a personal thing and not an absolute. If they cannot work with truth reason is useless. 42 PM

Dawn (Guest): #3 the beam in our own eye. scapegoating using others, instead of learning to see our own dysfunction.

May 21, 7:42 PM

VisitationSiste: Good insight Lisa

 

May 21, 7:42 PM

VisitationSiste: and Dawn!

 

May 21, 7:42 PM

Lisa C: If someone decides what truth is rather than what God has given us as truth they will always be misled.

 

VisitationSiste: Relativism is the heresy of our era

 

May 21, 7:43 PM

VisitationSiste: and in some ways, individualism

 

May 21, 7:43 PM

Lisa C: Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth—in a word, to know himself—so that, by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves. St. J-P II

May 21, 7:43 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) I wonder if reason and common sense go together. There are many people today who are very smart but they seem to have no common sense. They don’t seem to reason things out,

1, 7:44 PM

VisitationSiste: Like Pilate said to Jesus, What is truth? PM

Lisa C: Judy, logic probably has to be taught, but knowing truth can come from closeness to God. Children know what is true without logic.

May 21, 7:44 PM

Dawn (Guest): relativism is all around!

45 PM

VisitationSiste: selfishness too which I think is related7:45 PM

Lisa C: We need Popes like J-P II and Benedict

May 21, 7:46 PM

VisitationSiste: I loved St John Paul 11 but actually understood Pope Benedict’s writngs better

 

May 21, 7:47 PM

Dawn (Guest): and Pope Francis who preaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ .

May 21, 7:47 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) Do children know truth instinctively or do they need to be told what is true by others

 

Lisa C: Interesting, Mother, they say Pope Benedict wrote a lot of J-PIIs work.

May 21, 7:47 PM

VisitationSiste: Really? The style was different

 

May 21, 7:48 PM

Dawn (Guest): all the Popes, these three, have much to teach us in different ways their gifts.

May 21, 7:48 PM

Lisa C: Maybe he researched for him

May 21, 7:48 PM

VisitationSiste: I think children know love instinctively

 

May 21, 7:48 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) I had such a hard time understanding Benedict’s writings that I gave up.

May 21, 7:48 PM

Lisa C: http://w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_14091998_fides-et-ratio.html

May 21, 7:48 PM

Guest8077 (Guest): Just was reading a portion of book where writer was challenged by friend to read Bible . He said that after 4 years of college he did not even know what the Bible was . She encouraged him to start with book of John . He said that like many agnostiics and atheists , he had rejecteda book he had never read . He read over next few months and staed that “i began to see the order and beauty and credibility of God’s intricate Truth ” .

May 21, 7:48 PM

Lisa C: Pope St. J-P II on faith and reason

7:49 PM

Dawn (Guest): Gospel of John beautiful, deeply spiritual

May 21, 7:50 PM

VisitationSiste: Thank you- probably read it in the past- would be good to compare with St Francis

 

May 21, 7:50 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) I think that I have Fides et Ratio. I must pull it out and try

51 PM

VisitationSiste: Common sense- what is that really? sense for the group rather than just oneselfy 21, 7:51 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) John’s Gospel is my favorite. John has the heart of a poet and I resonate. I have written a good deal of poetry in my lifetime. 1 PM

 

VisitationSiste: you understand beauty

 

May 21, 7:52 PM

Guest8077 (Guest): Wonderful Judy ! Please share your poetry with us sometime !

May 21, 7:52 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) Common sense must be for the group and individual.

May 21, 7:52 PM

Dawn (Guest): I’ve not read Fides, I did read Jesus of Nazareth by Benedict. has anyone read it? think their are three in series, Ive only read the one

May 21, 7:54 PM

Lisa C: Dawn, I have it, but have not read it yet

May 21, 7:54 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) I tried to read it but gave up.

May 21, 7:54 PM

Guest8077 (Guest): I think we gain common sense within a group or community . Others see what we don’t see on our own . God wants us to live within community !

 

Dawn (Guest): a community would be wonderful, a close community

May 21, 7:55 PM

VisitationSiste: I read one of the volumes just recently and gained new insight

55 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) It is common sense to use some type of covering when it is raining. Is that learned from a community or is it discovered on one’s own?

 

VisitationSiste: I think it could happen either way

 

May 21, 7:57 PM

Guest8077 (Guest): Sometimes we need somebody to tell us to put the coat on or to see them put it on it encourages us to put one on . This happens all the time . We can be to stuborn to do what makes perfect sense !

May 21, 7:59 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) But I think that most people would instinctively seek cover in a downpour.

0 PM

VisitationSiste: So reason is operative there but if you had no umbrella faith that God would provide one would combine the reason and the faith? PM

Dawn (Guest): a community could be two or three. a dear friend, 98 yrs old. Italian, always Catholic. yes…she does tell me when to put a coat on!among other things

May 21, 8:00 PM

Lisa C: …or faith that God is taking care of the plants

:02 PM

Guest8077 (Guest): Sister Susan couple weeks ago I had said that you are a Lantern for the Lord . You and all the Sisters are a gentle light that directs all of us to your Spouse Jesus’s House through the darkness of this life to His beautiful eternal House ! Thank You !

May 21, 8:03 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) I don’t know about God providing an umbrella specifically. But He surely provides different types of shelter to seek in a downpour–a doorway, a bus shelter,share an umbrella with someone else, a plastic trash bag, etc.

May 21, 8:03 PM

VisitationSiste: You are welcome as He has blessed me too with each of you and others thru whom I came to know my vocation

 

May 21, 8:03 PM

Dawn (Guest): yes, a light on a hill. thank you sisters PM

VisitationSiste: so that last question Why is it that as the only creatures embued with the ability to reason, we often do not make good use of our reasoning power?

 

May 21, 8:04 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) Sisters always challenge me to live my own vocation more devotedly.

May 21, 8:05 PM

Dawn (Guest): maybe ego gets in the way? just considering…

May 21, 8:05 PM

Lisa C: Mother, I think, because people are not dealing with truth and are only dealing with what they want to say is true

May 21, 8:06 PM

Lisa C: relativism

May 21, 8:06 PM

Dawn (Guest): that Lisa

May 21, 8:06 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) We do not make good use of our reasoning power because we may be acting from our emotions rather than on reason. And the emotions can be very powerful and roadblocks to our reasoning capabilities.

May 21, 8:07 PM

Dawn (Guest): insightful , Judy. our emotions do get in there

21, 8:08 PM

Lisa C: It is not by accident that JP II ties faith to reason. Faith attaches us to God who gives us the truth to reason with. 08 PM

VisitationSiste: If we are humble enought o want to listen to God 8 PM

Guest8077 (Guest): I think our reasoning really comes out within community . I visited the Holy Hour for our Albion Correctional Kairos Group that serves Ladies Prison . At that Holy hour the sharing that took place helped me to understand more fully several situations in my life and the lives of those around me . Had I not taken time to attend i would have missed out on help God was providing me and others . 0 PM

Lisa C: Maybe as faith grows humility will

May 21, 8:11 PM

Lisa C: Or maybe with grace

May 21, 8:11 PM

Guest8077 (Guest): An isolated Christian is a paralysed Christian ! We lose our ability to reason when we isolate ! And we lose opportunity to serve someone else !

May 21, 8:12 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) I think that love plays a role in the development of humility. We are attracted to people who are humble and grow to love them. As we grow in love for them, we seek to imitate them and seek humility ourselves.

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Guest8077 (Guest): Amen Judy !

May 21, 8:14 PM

Lisa C: Blessed Mother plays a huge role in allowing Grace to take hold in us

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VisitationSiste: Very much so!

 

May 21, 8:15 PM

Dawn (Guest): she is one to imitate!

May 21, 8:15 PM

Lisa C: We can try and try on our own, but with her it becomes much easier

May 21, 8:15 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) Surely, after Jesus Himself, Mary is most worthy of our love for her deep humility, and we should seek to imitate her in this virtue.

May 21, 8:16 PM

Lisa C: Blessed Mother is devoted to our salvation and if we put ourselves in her care we will succeed

16 PM

Guest8077 (Guest): Also a perceived enemy is a potential friend ! Sometimes those people who aggravate us the most could become our greatest friend ! That why Jesus asks us to Love our enemies .If you have ever received agift from a perceived enemy . Totaly disarming . Your view changes instantly !

May 21, 8:17 PM

Lisa C: She guides us to Jesus

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Dawn (Guest): thank you for these words tonight, speaking of Mary

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Guest8077 (Guest): Nothing compares to a Mother’s Love ! Mary is always guiding us to her beloved Son Jesus PM

VisitationSiste: So many love her. We had a almost full chapel on the centennial of Our Lady’s appearance at Fatima for the Mass and devotions

 

May 21, 8:20 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) And the final question–how to discover the “beam” in our own eye is to examine our conscience in light of the Commandments, the

 

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) And the final question–how to discover the “beam” in our own eye is to examine our conscience in light of the Commandments, the Beatitudes and the life of Jesu.

May 21, 8:20 PM the Beatitudes and the life of Jesu.

Lisa C: Mother, it was wonderful.

May 21, 8:21 PM

Lisa C: I wonder why so few students came

May 21, 8:22 PM

VisitationSiste: I think they forgot to put my letter in the Tuesday folder

:22 PM

Lisa C: I would make those things mandatory 3 PM

VisitationSiste: I have lots of beams in my eyes!

 

May 21, 8:24 PM

Dawn (Guest): Me too sister!

May 21, 8:24 PM

Lisa C: Maybe you could have a special year for the students and talk about Fatima, Lourdes, etc.

May 21, 8:24 PM

Lisa C: Show the movies

May 21, 8:25 PM

Guest8077 (Guest): Me too Sister ! God seems to be helping me remove one at a time carefully ! With the help of soo many others !

May 21, 8:26 PM

Lisa C: The Introduction to the Devout Life may be the guide to beam removal

May 21, 8:26 PM

Dawn (Guest):

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VisitationSiste: Yes Lisa espas the children of Fatima are now saints

 

May 21, 8:27 PM

Lisa C: The story of the children is so wonderful, because they are children. The message that God can work through the tiny

May 21, 8:28 PM

Lisa C: We have to be like children to go to heaven

May 21, 8:28 PM

Lisa C: This little children were entrusted with a huge mission

May 21, 8:29 PM

Lisa C: They accepted it and did not fail, because Blessed Mother directed them

May 21, 8:29 PM

Guest8077 (Guest): A powerful movie that young people really like is very gripping is called Encounter . People get stuck at diner during storm . Jesus is the waiter and He helps each person to see where they are in life and what He is offering them ! Really powerful !

May 21, 8:30 PM

Guest8945 (Guest): (Judy) As we are preparing for the great Feast of the Ascension, let us ask the Lord to allow us to soar to Heaven with Him when our time comes and to allow us to be totally lost in Him for the remainder of our lives. And may we prepare well for the Great Feast of Pentecost, seeking a new outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon and within us. God bless all of you!

 

Committee Prepares for Visitation’s General Assembly

From May 14-20, 2017 a group of international Visitandines met in Annecy, France at the Visitation Monastery with their Assistant General to plan for a General Assembly in September 2017.

Faith and Reason- Per St Francis de Sales

Navigating the double standard that we often travel 

 

 

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We continue our series with Part III, Chapter 36 “A Well-Balanced, Reasonable Mind​” from An Introduction to the Devout Life. Here Saint Francis reminds us to serve God with our capacity.

Reason is the special characteristic of man, and yet it is a rare thing to find really reasonable men, all the more that self-love hinders reason, and beguiles us insensibly into all manner of trifling, but yet dangerous acts of injustice and untruth, which, like the little foxes in the Canticles, spoil our vines, while, just because they are trifling, people pay no attention to them, and because they are numerous, they do infinite harm. Let me give some instances of what I mean.

We find fault with our neighbour very readily for a small matter, while we pass over great things in ourselves. We strive to sell dear and buy cheap. We are eager to deal out strict justice to others, but to obtain indulgence for ourselves. We expect a good construction to be put on all we say, but we are sensitive and critical as to our neighbour’s words. We expect him to let us have whatever we want for money, when it would be more reasonable to let him keep that which is his, if he desires to do so, and leave us to keep our gold. We are vexed with him because he will not accommodate us, while perhaps he has better reason to be vexed with us for wanting to disturb him. If we have a liking for any one particular thing, we despise all else, and reject whatever does not precisely suit our taste. If some inferior is unacceptable to us, or we have once caught him in error, he is sure to be wrong in our eyes whatever he may do, and we are for ever thwarting, or looking coldly on him, while, on the other hand, some one who happens to please us is sure to be right.

Sometimes even parents show unfair preference for a child endowed with personal gifts over one afflicted with some physical imperfection. We put the rich before the poor, although they may have less claim, and be less worthy; we even give preference to well-dressed people. We are strict in exacting our own rights, but expect others to be yielding as to theirs;–we complain freely of our neighbours, but we do not like them to make any complaints of us. Whatever we do for them appears very great in our sight, but what they do for us counts as nothing. In a word, we are like the Paphlagonian partridge, which has two hearts; for we have a very tender, pitiful, easy heart towards ourselves, and one which is hard, harsh and strict towards our neighbour. We have two scales, one wherein to measure our own goods to the best advantage, and the other to weigh our neighbours’ to the worst. Holy Scripture tells us that lying lips are an abomination unto the Lord, and the double heart, with one measure whereby to receive, and another to give, is also abominable in His Sight.

Be just and fair in all you do. Always put yourself in your neighbour’s place, and put him into yours, and then you will judge fairly. Sell as you would buy, and buy as you would sell, and your buying and selling will alike be honest. These little dishonesties seem unimportant, because we are not obliged to make restitution, and we have, after all, only taken that which we might demand according to the strict letter of the law; but, nevertheless, they are sins against right and charity, and are mere trickery, greatly needing correction–nor does any one ever lose by being generous, noble-hearted and courteous. Be sure then often to examine your dealings with your neighbour, whether your heart is right towards him, as you would have his towards you, were things reversed–this is the true test of reason. When Trajan was blamed by his confidential friends for making the Imperial presence too accessible, he replied, “Does it not behove me to strive to be such an emperor towards my subjects as I should wish to meet with were I a subject?”