Topic of chat Sun: WHY SUFFERING? St Francis de Sales will help with his advice from the Treatise on the Love of God.
http://visitationspirit.org/2013/01/st-francis-de-sales-and-suffering/
Car: Pope JP II wrote a beautiful letter on the christian meaning of suffering
Jan 27 2013, 7:35 PM
Sister : What struck you most in it?
D: can someone understand suffering?
C: On the surface maybe=such as when a cancer is caused by smoking, but not always
Car: Since we cannot undterstand perfect love, it would be difficult to truly understand suffering
Yes, as a consequence, not punishment
Sister : That’s an insight- but directly related!
Sorrow according to SFDS can be caused by evil, or our dispositions, or tragedies but where is Love in this?
C: yes, punishment ande suffering seem to be interrelated as people often assume suffering is an indication of Divine punishment
Car: Christs suffering was redemptive. By offering up our own suffering, we participate in His loving action.
C: and through Him our suffering becmes redemptive?
Car: Christ strongly denied suffering as punishment:
or at least, a form of attonment for the whole body of Christ, his church
Sister: Suffering was the greatest act of Love Jesus performed in His Life, do you not think so?
C: yes I do
Sister: and so it can be our greatest act of love too
D: how?
Car: Absolutely. And He was perfect, no punishment there.
Sister : It is easier to love when things are all going well. But if we can love when they are not, it becomes a greater love, it proves our love
C: because great things always are difficult to achieve?
Jan 27 2013, 7:45 PM
Sister: The challenge is greater- the love is greater. And when we unite our pain with Christ’s we benefit from His perfection as well
Car: Because we trust Gods goodness, that is faith. Suffering becomes an opportunity to become closer to God thru trust.
Sister: There is a great book I read this Sept called the Gaze of the Father- it really enlightened me about love and suffering
Car: I would like to read that.
Sister : It is the retreat by Archbishop Martinez given to Conchita
It has a stupendous meditation on suffering
I wish I could quote it but I can’t I’ have to look it up
C: oh, I found it. going to add to to my goodreads list so I won’t forget
Jan 27 2013, 7:48 PM
Sister : Very deep but understandable
Car: Pope JPII basically said there were three reasons (effects) of suffering: charity (tomake an important good possible)
Sister : He says something like: Jesus wanting to demonstate His love for us and His Father took on suffering- but how can the Father giving Jesus the Cross have been an act of love? it explains that
Car: also, Humility,to make us more open to Gods workings
and also transformation, as many saints had profound conversions in suffering
Sister: That is very powerful
Car: A very holy man.
Sister : soon to be a saint; canonized one I mean
Car: without doubt!
Sister : Holiness is love
Car: and suffering can be holy
Sister : Yes and holiness is also the manifestation of God’s glory; His presence; so suffering manifests God’s presence
Car: That is what Jesus told the apostles, when they asked why a bind man was blind!
Jan 27 2013, 7:54 PM
C: hmm, now I’ve generally thought of being in God’s presence as a place of no suffering?
Car: Then, he cured him.
Sister : The saints loved crosses and sufferings
Car: But, in union with Christs, it becomes a joy
Sister : In heaven in His presence there I do not think there is suffering but
in heaven saints are interceeding for those on earth where suffering is present so there is a kind of unity
Car: therefore, our suffering can be for the good of others.
C: it’s still a great mystery to me, and it might always be
Car: And if we can overcome the sense of uselessness of suffering, we can endure anything
Sister : Yes it is a mystery as is love and our very lives
But we get glimpses of its truth and meaning
Car: a great mystery, like Gods love. we humans are not going to understand fully
C: no, suffering is not useless, but How it works is way beyond me
, 8:00 PM
Car: It can transform us, bring us closer to God
Sister : How do you keep referring it to God in the midst of suffering and not get so caught up in the pain that you leave God out?
Car: Not easy.
C: me, I try to remember to pray. I say try because sometimes it takes me awhile to remember…
Car: Trust trust and again, trust! I gaze at a crucifix
D: u’all make it sound so easy
Car: I say the Divine Mercy prayer
Sister : It is not easy but if you have a way to follow like prayer or the crucifix it helps
C: Oh D, it’s really not, but the habit of prayer is built on trust
The Divine Mercy chaplet is such a treasure-He always hears and answers, and the more you use it, the more you can trust
Car: As a person who is quite disabled by a metabolic bone disorder, I have had alot of practice . It is never easier.
St. Faustina has helped me beyond measure!
Sister : But you speak from experience and the truth comes through
Sr Ma: Hello to all
Jan 27 2013, 8:08 PM
Car: I spend alot of time in prayer. The subject of suffering has come up occasionaly…Hi Sr!
D: hi sr
Sr Ma: I was just reading how Padre Pio suffered each time he said Mass, as he identified so fully with our Crucified Lord.
Car: talk about comm-union!
Sr Ma: SFdS says in a letter to St. Jane: “I desire that your cross and mine be entirely of Jesus Christ. As to the imposition of them and the choice, the good God knows what He does and why He does it, all for our good, no doubt.”
Car: also like Our Lord
Sr Ma: C.S. Lewis’s book, “The Problem of Pain” is a good one on suffering.
Jan 27 2013, 8:12 PM
Sister : What trust there is in that statement
C: Padre Pio had so many mystical experiences, so beyond most of us
Sister : But it comes down to seeing God’s hand in everything
Car: Yes! sfds trusts.we must trust that God would not allow something “bad” to exist, if He couldnt make good out of it
Sr Ma: I keep wondering if I were more willing to fully accept suffering, I’d probably have more mystical experiences, like P.Pio.
Car: If God willed it to be your vocation, yes
C: do you think that those who are capable of suffering united to God have more mystical experiences?
Sr Ma: So many saints tell us to “make good use of our suffering,” i.e., offer it up for others.
Car: Most of the very mystical saint suffered more than usual…
Sr Ma: If you can think of another while you’re really suffering, you’re already a saint!
Car: We are the body of Christ, all of us, and our triumps and sufferings belong to us all
Jan 27 2013, 8:16 PM
C: true, pain tends to turn us inward
Car: maybe that accounts for the Mystics?
C: ooh, I’d never connected the dots that way
SR Ma: SFdS told SJdC: “The profit of the soul does not consist in thinking much of God, but in loving Him with all our heart; and this love is acquired by the determination to do and suffer much for God.”
Sister : my dots did not connect!
Car: Ha, ha, Sister! thats funny.
Sr Ma: But I tend to say, “Please, Lord, let this cup pass!” instead of “Thy will be done!”
C: oh, it suddenly hit me, that if we gaze inward, not selfishly, but in meditation and contemplation, we are going to encounter God
C: I’m sorry, God
Car: bingo!
: He is in us, and we are in Him
SR Ma: Right, C. God inside and God outside in selfless service to others.
C: and while we are encountering God in those moments, the pain is not important
Sister : Ah!
Car: That is how saints referred to suffering as joy…
SR Ma: Our Sr. Regina Schatz, when she was dying, always asked about the loved ones of anyone visiting her and promised to pray for them and offer her suffering for them.
So, visiting her, was a good way to get the intercession of a saint for those we cared about.
Car: I offer suffering for three things every day: the sanctity of priests, the conversion of sinners, reprieve for souls in purgatory.
Sr Ma: That’s wonderful, Car!
Jan 27 2013, 8:23 PM
Sister : You are living a true vocation of suffering
C: I feel lazy–I just offer it up and let Him do what He wills:
Car: oh, and for Divine Mercy for the world:
He certainly knows best!
SR Ma: SFdS told one of his directees to “invoke the martyrs and the many men and women who served God and who now feel great joy in heaven because they were sorely tried in this world.”
Sister : So would you say the secular world has only a vague notion if at all of all we have been attesting?
Car: sadly, without a close relationship with Christ, this is not easy to understand.
C: yes, I would say that
SR Ma: Yes, cutting suffering as short as possible is usually the aim.
C: it seems as though people are stuck on a merciful, loving God would not permit suffereing, and so don’t investigate
Car: but dont parents have to sometimes allow a child to suffer a little, in order to protect that chaild from worse harm?
SR Ma: The desire to “offer it up” and patiently bear suffering seems to have disappeared.
Sister : Jesus healed though. Where does that fit in?
Jan 27 2013, 8:30 PM
C: De! You’re here!
Sister : Hello
Sr Ma: First case of mumps or measles is the young’uns test
Car: I first heard the term “offer it up’ from a Visitandine!
w(guest): Hi..new here..so bear with me
w (guest): sorry to interrupt..what are we discussing..no..the name is Native American given to me by a Lakota
Sister : Suffering is what we were discussing
Sr Ma: All-enduring, every suffering…
Car: Sr. , what did you mean “Jesus healed, though, where does that fit in?
Sister : He took away suffering and people will refer to that when they deny the way we have talked about suffering tonight
w (guest):.tryin to get into the conversation..i”ll sit back and observe for a few
Car: We still suffer, because we live on an imperfect earth…
He gave meaning to suffering…
C: and it also raises the question of why some are healed and others not
w (guest): why do children suffer
Sr Ma: We trust that God wants our best, whether that’s to heal us or not, right?
Car: Oooo, good one!
w(guest): as a hospice nurse, i am always asked that question
C: I do, but that’s another secular gem
SR Ma: Why did the Holy Innocents die but Our Lord escape?
Jan 27 2013, 8:37 PM
Sister : Blessed or is it St Jacinta could answer that for us!
C: because an evil man murdered the children, but Jesus had to escape in order for the Father’s will to be carried out?
Sr Ma: All according to His will…always tough for me to understand But God’s thoughts are not my thoughts and ideas.
Car: When children suffer, their suffering brings out human compassion, love, and selfless behavior…it opens a door to God…
Jan 27 2013, 8:39 PM
Sister : Jacinta went from being a spunky kid to one who suffered for “sinners” in a big way
SR Ma: I’m not supposed to second-guess God but try to accept His will, I guess.
Car: Was she a victim soul?
Jan 27 2013, 8:40 PM
Sister : Visionary at Fatima. I suppose she mite have been a victim too
Car: Oh, THAT Jacinta!
Sister : But again, extraordinary graces in her life. What about a child who has cancer but no apparitions
w (guest): through suffering our faith is strengthened and we depend on our father less on mankind and ourselves, but why the children when jesus said “suffer not the little children”
SR Ma: Suffer not, in the sense of, allow them to come to Me.
Car: Why anyone, who doesnt earn it? Why Jesus?
Jan 27 2013, 8:43 PM
w (guest): i would ask the nuns at school , always about that…but I do understand why some are healed and others not
Sr Ma: That the point: we don’t know WHY, but we trust that God does, and since He always wants the best for each of His creatures, it’s OK.
Car: Suffering is an opportunity to trust
Jan 27 2013, 8:44 PM
SR Ma: Not OK with me many times, but OK that with God it’s OK
w(guest): That’ll be my 1st question when I get to those pearly gates