- As we read, St. Francis was highly influenced by the Calvinist notion of double predestination. However, it was precisely this influence that caused him to see clearly God’s true love, the love that allows us to have freedom (not a preordained path to either heaven or hell). How might we explain the balance between freewill and God’s foreknowledge of our eternal destiny?
- Is it surprising to you (or was it your first time learning) that it was St. John Bosco (and not St. Francis de Sales) who started the Salesians?
- What can we learn from St. John Bosco beginning a religious society not in his own name but in the name of another great saint?
- It was the emphasis on God’s love and offer of freedom that inspired St. John Bosco to adapt St. Francis’ teachings to develop a teaching method centered on love instead of predestination. How might we learn from this as we play our part in the New Evangelization
- Judy K: Don Bosco chose St. Francis de Sales as the patron for his new congregation because of his gentleness and kindness. It is gentleness that Don Bosco stresses in his dealings with the boys of his time.Feb 8 2015, 7:35 PM
- Sister Susan Marie: It seems St Francis de Sales was highly regarded in the Piedmont area , Turin etc to begin with and ST John Bosco was an incredibly spiritually gifted man- who wanted to reach those troubled boys- gently
- Anne M: the chat for today did seem complicated at first, but does it not mean that Don Bosco chose SFdS spirituality because of the simplicity and love. Do what you can do with love?Judy K: Don Bosco chose St. Francis de Sales as the patron for his new congregation because of his gentleness and kindness. It is gentleness that Don Bosco stresses in his dealings with the boys of his time.Sister Susan Marie: It seems St Francis de Sales was highly regarded in the Piedmont area , Turin etc to begin with and ST John Bosco was an incredibly spiritually gifted man- who wanted to reach those troubled boys- gentlyAnne M: the chat for today did seem complicated at first, but does it not mean that Don Bosco chose SFdS spirituality because of the simplicity and love. Do what you can do with love?
Sister Susan Marie: It is not really easy to be gentle when you are disturbed by outrageous behavior!
Judy K: I was not at all surprised to learn that Don Bosco founded the Salesians since I have been a Salesian for 33 years. The official name for the congregation is The Salesian Society. It is also called the Salesians of St. John Bosco.Feb 8 2015, 7:36 PM
Sister Susan Marie: and both St John and St Francis had hot tempers which they learned to control
7:37 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Were you drawn to the Salesians of St John Bosco by their spirituality of gentleness and teaching?
Judy K: In naming his congregation for SfdS, I think that Don Bosco exercised humility. He did not name the order after himself. I think that he also sought the patronage and intercession of St. Francis for his society and those they would serve.
:40 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Yes intercession for certain; sometimes we forget the power of intercession! 7:41 PM
Sister Susan Marie: St John had a style called the “Preventive method” in teaching- I am not quite sure what it is but I wondered if it means prevent a troubled situation before it begins? 7:41 PM
Judy K: I was principally attracted to the Salesians, to Don Bosco because of his joy and his absolute trust in the providence of God. He strongly encouraged joy in his boys. He had several instances where he exercised trust–one when he was distributing rolls to the boys and they were running. Don Bosco remained unruffled and there were enough for all the boys. The same thing happened when he was distributing communion one day.
Feb 8 2015, 7:42 PM
Sister Susan Marie: That’s TRUST! and sanctity too
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Sister Susan Marie: We were just talking about a level of trust here in community. Our cook has been out all week sick and I have filled in but the food was running out. I was scrounging for tomorrow when voila! those dads from the valentine’s dance came over with 8 trays of leftover food! :43 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Anything like that ever happen to you? :44 PM
Anne M: providence! PM
Judy K: Don Bosco believed that by being in the constant company of the boys, troubles could be stopped before they started. The Preventive Method is based on “Reason, Religion and Loving Kindness.” He felt that if the boys understood what was being asked of then, they would more readily comply. Religion gives them the moral standards by which to live which also reaches into the area of reason. And the loving kindness draws the boys to their teachers and makes them more willing to comply.
Feb 8 2015, 7:44 PM
Sister Susan Marie: What joy develops from living from His Providence!
Anne M: just in time, He’s never late. He’s so good to me. 5, 7:48 PM
Dawn L: trusting. so many times He has shown me …fulfilling his promises- to those that love Him
Judy K: I think that much of my life has been governed by His Providence. I have been accidents in which I was not seriously injured. I came cancer treatment with none of the horrific side effects usually associated with chemo. I had told my oncologist that I would not continue if I were sick. And Praise God,I was not. Just this year, I was having great trouble with my computer. There was no way I could fix it myself. Good friends were unbelievably generous to me at Christmas and for my birthday which enabled me to
Feb 8 2015, 7:50 PM
Sister Susan Marie: One time we were visiting a Sister in the hospital and the car on returning stopped dead in the middle lane. I had 2 Srs in the back seat and we started praying the rosary. Immediately there were 2 men knocking on the window- they saw us and wanted to help Their car jhad also stalled. They fixed ours!
Judy K: upgrade and add Office to the system. He always takes such good care of me.
Feb 8 2015, 7:50 PM
Dawn L: Hi Karen!
51 PM
Judy K: Is it any wonder that we call our God an awesome God!
Feb 8 2015, 7:51 PM
Sister Susan Marie: I guess our free will is best employed by trusting in God
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KarenP (guest): He everyone – I was trying to read through so I would know where the discussion is at. I have also found that when I was in what seemed to be dire straights to me at the time, God has provided for my needs. I now know that He will take care of me.
54 PM
Sister Susan Marie: So then knowing His care over us we need to share that knowledge with others who have not learned it yet
Feb 8 2015, 7:54 PM
Anne M: I never did understand predestination. The Lord says he will not reject anyone who wants to come to him. Freewill
Feb 8 2015, 7:54 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Who depend too much on self perhaps
55 PM
KarenP (guest): I find the predestination piece, as I understand it from the Calvinistic view, to be one that really doesn’t offer one much hope or encouragement to love God. It seems that if our fate is already sealed no matter what, then no amount of effort or belief on our part would change that. I don’t think that instills any reason to love God or feel loved by him. I also don’t know the scriptural basis for this, although I have been shown scriptures that are used to support it. They seem to support the idea ofeb 8 2015, 7:55 PM
KarenP (guest): free will just as well as predestination.
Feb 8 2015, 7:55 PM
Judy K: You asked about the balance between free will and God’s foreknowledge of our destiny. I use the analogy of standing on the overpass to a highway watching traffic. You see that a car in the far left lane is switching into the center and at the time a car from the right lane is switching into the center. Neither car sees the other and you know immediately that there is going to be a collision. You did not ordain the accident not could you stop it. The drivers exercised their free will to make a move, perhaps
Feb 8 2015, 7:55 PM
Anne M: yes
, 7:56 PM
Judy K: without checking to see if another motorist was moving at the same time. , 7:56 PM
Anne M: That’s providence, though. The car crash may have prevented something much worse around the corner7 PM
KarenP (guest): I do believe that God knows what we will decide or what actions we will take, just as He knows when we will accept or reject His call. I don’t think that having that knowledge means that He has preordained it2015, 7:57 PM
Judy K: Exactly! 15, 7:57 PM
Anne M: I believe that too. He does know and He continues to call us, 7:58 PM
Guest931 (guest): And He respects our free willPM
Sister Susan Marie: Yes we are made in His image and likeness God is free and He gave us freedom too:59 PM
KarenP (guest): Welcome 931! If God has already predestined us to heaven or hell and nothing will change that, and we of course, don’t know who is going where, then what reason would we have to behave morally? :00 PM
Sister Susan Marie: St Francis de Sales decided to love God on this earth even if his eternity was not going to be with God. That is LOVE!
Feb 8 2015, 8:00 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: We’ve had 5 young women discerning with us over the weekend, so the place has been jumping!
KarenP (guest): I think being free to not only receive God’s love but also to be able to respond to that love and love in return is amazing.
Feb 8 2015, 8:01 PM
Anne M: Yes, “respond and love in return”
Feb 8 2015, 8:01 PM
KarenP (guest): I agree that St. Francis de Sales decision is pretty definitely an act of love.
015, 8:02 PM
Judy K: Sadly, so many in this day and age choose to reject His love.
Feb 8 2015, 8:02 PM
Anne M: They’re too wrapped up in the world
:03 PM
Anne M: what the world is saying is important3 PM
Judy K: But what a joy it was to see so many young people participating in the March for Life with joy and enthusiasm. Certainly that is a sign that things might be changing. PM
Dawn L: imagine how it was in the early church!
Feb 8 2015, 8:03 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: and then they get deathly sick, like my brother-in-law, who found out he has 4th-stage, metastatic prostate cancer, and has no faith life to sustain him…so sad1
Feb 8 2015, 8:03 PM
KarenP (guest): I think that is where free will is not such a wonderful thing as we are free to choose the path that is not good for us. Still, I think God loves us in spite of that and waits for us to have a change of heart. Certainly if there is any room for the Holy Spirit to enter, he does! And then someone can turn around.
5 PM
Anne M: Very Sad. I’ll pray for him
Feb 8 2015, 8:05 PM
KarenP (guest): God has the power to make us worship, but I have to think that God does not want worship that is not done in love.
Feb 8 2015, 8:05 PM
Judy K: Like the father of the Prodigal Son, God is waiting for us to return and will receive us with loving outstretched arms.
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Anne M: Never rejecting anyone who wants to come to him, said Jesus
Feb 8 2015, 8:06 PM
KarenP (guest): I also think that we are called to pray for the conversion of those whose hearts are not with God. That if we pray for them, then perhaps their hearts will let the Holy Spirit in at some point.
Feb 8 2015, 8:06 PM
Anne M: yes
Feb 8 2015, 8:06 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: It’s the “wanting” part: WE have to desire it from deep inside us
Feb 8 2015, 8:06 PM
Sister Susan Marie: My cousin told me something interesting-last Sun she went to the supermarket after Mass and saw an old man who was just beaming with happiness. So much so she went to ask him why he was s o happy
Sister Susan Marie: He told her “I just received my Lord!”
Feb 8 2015, 8:07 PM
Judy K: Wow! Someone got it!!!
Feb 8 2015, 8:07 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Now that was a moment that could convert someone, don’t you think?
Feb 8 2015, 8:07 PM
Anne M: Awww. That is beautiful
Feb 8 2015, 8:07 PM
Guest931 (guest): Cool!
Feb 8 2015, 8:07 PM
Anne M: Yes
Feb 8 2015, 8:07 PM
Dawn L: beautiful
Feb 8 2015, 8:08 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: and that’s how we all should be – brimming over with joy. A sad saint is a sorry saint.
Mary Roberta Viano: yes, responding with our free will is what makes for the “abundant life” God wants us to have and calls forth from within us
KarenP (guest): That is a wonderful share, Sr. Susan Marie! It does happen, and then we need to pray that those who have received continue to grow in the faith so they don’t fall away too quickly.
Feb 8 2015, 8:08 PM
Guest931 (guest): True
Feb 8 2015, 8:08 PM
Judy K: Teresa of Avila asked to preserved from gloomy saint. Mary Roberta Viano: Annie Dillard, one of my favorite poets, said, if we truly understood how Our Lord comes to us at Mass, we would be wearing a helmet and have a seatbelt on1
KarenP (guest): I know that the Visitation sisters pray throughout the day (liturgy of the hours), so is the focus of their prayer to help convert the world into belief? PM
Mary Roberta Viano: It’s to pray with the whole Church all over the world.
Feb 8 2015, 8:10 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Yes, and salvation of souls
Feb 8 2015, 8:10 PM
Judy K: Should anyone be interested in more information on the Preventive Method, you can read “The Educational Philosophy of St. John Bosco” written by John Morrison. It is available from Salesians Publications. I have to hunt for the phone number for you. Hi Amy!
KarenP (guest): Thank you, both. I thought so but wasn’t sure.
Feb 8 2015, 8:11 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Since some of us teach it would be a good read too
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Amy Cochran: the beauty of the office is that it’s being said somewhere throughout the world, in different time zones, all praising God
Feb 8 2015, 8:12 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: right, Amy, so we really feel part of worldwide prayer
:12 PM
KarenP (guest): Yes, I liked the story of St. John Bosco. I think it spoke to me as a teacher. Although I think he had more patience that I feel that I often have. He was a wonderful example of trusting that God would always provide for needs at the appropriate time in the appropriate way.
Feb 8 2015, 8:12 PM
Amy Cochran: like a never ending praye
3 PM
KarenP (guest): I hadn’t thought of the office that way, Amy! That is a really neat thing to think about.
Feb 8 2015, 8:13 PM
Dawn L: that is unceasing prayer St Paul speaks of?
Feb 8 2015, 8:13 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: SFdS said to a retreat director that “after the Holy Scriptures, I know of no finer book than the Breviary
Feb 8 2015, 8:13 PM
KarenP (guest): I was thinking that too Dawn!
Feb 8 2015, 8:13 PM
Anne M: I used to be a cop in the Detroit area. I gave a street kid a book on Don Bosco. He was so impressed he became a social worker and opened a day center for homeless boys
4 PM
Guest931 (guest): Awesome!
Feb 8 2015, 8:14 PM
Sister Susan Marie: That’s evangelization!!
Feb 8 2015, 8:14 PM
Judy K: You can actually call the Salesian Provincial House at 914-636-4225 and ask to speak with JoAnn. She should be able to help you.
Feb 8 2015, 8:14 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Thank you!
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Mary Roberta Viano: wow, Anne. He’s certainly inspiring – and is actually the first “Salesian” people think of – before the first Salesians, the Visitandines. :15 PM
KarenP (guest): I think the Salesian spirituality is something that speaks to me of love differently than some of the other orders I have been trying to find out about. How would you describe it, anyone?
Feb 8 2015, 8:15 PM
Amy Cochran: You are right, Sister, the Visitandines have a long history
Feb 8 2015, 8:16 PM
Anne M: The boy actually came running toward my car, out of breath… I thought something bad had happened. He said “that Don Bosco, he alright takin care of the boys in the hood like that”
Sister Susan Marie: Powerful!
Feb 8 2015, 8:16 PM
Amy Cochran: The Visitation Sisters focus on the love of the Sacred Heart of Jesus
Feb 8 2015, 8:16 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Gentle and humble of heart
Feb 8 2015, 8:16 PM
Anne M: He’s also Christian, but not Catholic. But a powerful witness
Feb 8 2015, 8:16 PM
KarenP (guest): I love your story, Anne! Power of love is a mighty thing!
17 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: and Don Bosco showed the truth of SFdS statement that there’s nothing stronger than true gentleness.
Sister Susan Marie: You know the phrase- you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar- that was St Francis’s approach- and his statement:18 PM
Anne M: Thinking of him brings tears8:18 PM
Anne M: joyfulPM
KarenP (guest): Maybe that is what I am feeling when I read about Don Bosco and St. Francis de Sales. That seems to me to be truer to the love of Jesus as I think of it. Gentle and humble but strong because of love. 0 PM
Judy K: And speaking of evangelization, you asked how Don Bosco’s teaching method can affect our efforts at the New Evangelization. I think that we need to use those three pillars, reason, religion and kindness to bring about the evangelization. We need to appeal to the intellect, to understanding of the truths of our faith, our religion and to encourage the exercise of religious practice to support our growth in faith and knowledge And we need to approach people with love so that we can appeal to them from a true
Feb 8 2015, 8:20 PM
Judy K: “heart to heart” stance. We must do everything with love.
Feb 8 2015, 8:20 PM
Sister Susan Marie: I always rememberthat it took the two saints we are speaking about alot of energy to be gentle
Feb 8 2015, 8:20 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: A biographer of SFdS said that he always insisted that gentleness was the very essence of a Christian spirit
21 PM
KarenP (guest): Yes, I have friends who are very eager to point out a persons sin to save them, but I think we need to use love to save them. Hitting someone over the head with how sinful they are doesn’t always make them feel loved.
Feb 8 2015, 8:21 PM
Dawn L: we never know how just a word, or a glance, or a smile, any simple thing, God can use to draw someone closer to Him
Anne M: or push them away
Feb 8 2015, 8:22 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: “Learn from me, for I am gentle and humble of heart” (Mt 11:29)
Feb 8 2015, 8:22 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Pope Francis just wrote: During this Lent, then, brothers and sisters, let us all ask the Lord: “Fac cor nostrum secundum cor tuum”: Make our hearts like yours (Litany of the Sacred Heart of Jesus). In this way we will receive a heart which is firm and merciful, attentive and generous, a heart which is not closed, indifferent or prey to the globalization of indifference.”
Feb 8 2015, 8:23 PM
KarenP (guest): I find Jesus to be accepting and loving of many who others found sinful. That didn’t change the fact that they needed to change, but Jesus did it with love not anger or rejection.
Feb 8 2015, 8:23 PM
Anne M: AMEN
Feb 8 2015, 8:23 PM
Sister Susan Marie: I think we’ll be talking about Lent nextt Sun
3 PM
Judy K: We need to follow the gentle Jesus who said to the woman taken in adultery “Woman has no one condemned you—then neither do I condemn you. Go now and sin no more.” :23 PM
Anne M:
Feb 8 2015, 8:23 PM
Judy K: You must have read my mind. I was going to ask if we could do that next week.
KarenP (guest): I know that in my own life, it was easier to acknowledge my need for a savior when I knew that I was lovable and that I could be forgiven.
Feb 8 2015, 8:24 PM
Sister Susan Marie: We grow alike in the spirit!
Anne M: Not to change the subject, but in the last couple of minutes, Sisters, could you tell me/us what your days are like in the monastery.
Feb 8 2015, 8:25 PM
Sister Susan Marie: It hardest when close family members don’t believe and don’t seem to change
Feb 8 2015, 8:25 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: We follow a monastic horarium.
- Mary Roberta Viano: 5 times together to pray the Office (Breviary)Feb 8 2015, 8:26 PMKarenP (guest): I have a son who is lost but looking, and one who has become very involved with the Calvinist views. We do have some interesting discussions, and I kow my one son prays that I will come out of the Catholic church. Of course, I pray that God will lead us where we need to be.8 online:26 PM
Dawn L: Sr Mary, please say a prayer for me…with my sons, that I can also do so. Will also pray for you
Feb 8 2015, 8:26 PM
Guest931 (guest): My family gives me a hard time, too. They are not Catholic
PM
Mary Roberta Viano: work time in between, recreation in the evening PM
Sister Susan Marie: Rising Time – Between 5:00 and 5:30 amMeditation – 6:00 amMorning Prayer – 7:00 amMass – 7:30 am (followed by breakfast)(On Saturdays, Mass is at 8:00 am and on Sundays, at 9:00 am)Manual Work – 9:00 am – 11:00Office of Readings – 11:30 am (followed by dinner and Recreation)Midday Prayer – 1:05 pmRest, Spiritual Reading, Private Devotions, Creative Work – 1:30 pmExposition of the Blessed Sacrament – 4:00 pmRosary* – 4:40 pmEvening Prayer – 5:10 pmSupper – 6:00 pm (followed by Recreation)Night Prayer – 8:00
Feb 8 2015, 8:28 PM
KarenP (guest): I also converted to Catholicism and I think others in this chat did also. I will pray for everyone during the week.
Feb 8 2015, 8:28 PM
Anne M: 5- 5:30 yikes, haven’t done that in a while
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Amy Cochran: I’m an early bird myself
Feb 8 2015, 8:29 PM
Anne M: Is medication really hard at 6am when you get up at 5?
- Mary Roberta Viano: Some of our sisters compare notes on the sunrises they see.Feb 8 2015, 8:30 PMAnne M: meditation NOT medicationFeb 8 2015, 8:30 PMJudy K: There are some definite benefits to being retired. One of them is sleeping later.
Feb 8 2015, 8:30 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Son-rises, really!
Feb 8 2015, 8:30 PM
Anne M: awww
30 PM
KarenP (guest): It seems that it would be easier to reflect on some of God’s handiwork when you see the sunrise daily. At least I would hope there are benefits to that early morning daily routine.
Feb 8 2015, 8:30 PM
Judy K: Ann, frequently find myself typing medication when I mean meditation. Wonder if there is some hidden meaning to that.
1 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: yes, meditation is definitely medicinal!
Feb 8 2015, 8:31 PM
Anne M: good point
15, 8:31 PM
Judy K: It is healing for our interior lives PM
Amy Cochran: the tranquility of the morning hours is beyond compare
Feb 8 2015, 8:32 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: Time to prepare Office music for tomorrow’s Lauds.
Feb 8 2015, 8:32 PM
KarenP (guest): I think this type of prayer life would draw us closer to God in a way that I can’t even imagine yet.
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Anne M: ok, goodnight. Thank you, Sisters
Feb 8 2015, 8:33 PM
Amy Cochran: Good night, Sisters, et al!
Feb 8 2015, 8:33 PM
Mary Roberta Viano: G’night. Let’s continue lifting one another up in prayer.
Feb 8 2015, 8:33 PM
Guest931 (guest): Good night
Feb 8 2015, 8:33 PM
Anne M: night. amen.
Feb 8 2015, 8:33 PM
Sister Susan Marie: Blessings of the week!Prayers too for all
Feb 8 2015, 8:33 PM
Judy K: Have a blessed week everyone! May His Providence be with each and every one of you.!
3 PM
KarenP (guest): Good Night all and I will pray for all through the week.