Chatting about: Encouragement despite Temptations

Jul 20, 9:22 AM

Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): What do you make of the distinction between temptation and its delectation? Why does Saint Francis distinguish between temptation itself and the enjoyment of temptation? Most often we hear that avoiding the smaller temptations we face prepares us and strengthens us to avoid the big temptations when they come. However, Saint Francis throws a wrench in all this and warns us that those who are able to avoid big temptations should still be humble enough to still be aware of the dangers of small temptatiotemptations. What do you think about this? Why do you think he emphasized this?

Reflect on 1 Corinthians 10:13: “No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with the temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.“ How does this verse shed light on the above reflection?

Jul 23, 2:59 PM

Guest1748 (Guest): Hi Sister Susan ! Kairos tonight please keep Men in your prayers ! Also Kairos Advanced Training at Christ the King Seminary in East Aurora Friday through Sunday . New Kairos leaders from around the country will be receiving training . Please pray for all ! God Love You All ! Have great trip home from Washington Sister ! Many prayers for you all !!! Brian

Jul 23, 7:23 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): Hi Everybody, it’s Judy.

Jul 23, 7:23 PM

Lisa C: Hi Judy

Jul 23, 7:24 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): Hi Brian and Lisa

Jul 23, 7:26 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) I had a tough time answering these questions. My answers are very brief.

Jul 23, 7:28 PM

Lisa C: What do you make of the distinction between temptation and its delectation? Why does Saint Francis distinguish between temptation itself and the enjoyment of temptation?

Jul 23, 7:31 PM

Lisa C: I suspect that if someone enjoys the temptation they are going to enjoy the sin and Jesus said, “You heard it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery,’ but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman/wife in order to covet her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Matt 5:27-28.

Jul 23, 7:32 PM

Lisa C: So just thinking something bad would be likable is also a sin.

Jul 23, 7:32 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) Temptation is that which is attractive; delectation is what makes it attractive. Consider the word delectable. Candy tempts. it is the sweetness or flavor that makes it delectable or desirable. Francis distinguishes between the because the temptation alone is not sin, but it is the delectation that can easily lead to sin. To enjoy the temptation is dangerous.

Jul 23, 7:32 PM

Lisa C: Liking the sin, is a sin.

Jul 23, 7:34 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) enjoying the temptation can weaken us and result in our committing the sin.

Jul 23, 7:35 PM

Lisa C: Jesus is saying that we do not have to commit the sin to be guilty of it. We just have to want to do it.

Jul 23, 7:35 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) Amen!

Jul 23, 7:35 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) Hi Ruth!

Jul 23, 7:35 PM

Lisa C: Hi Ruth

Jul 23, 7:37 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) I think that that is why it is so important to avoid the near occasions of sin. They tempt us and can be very desirable. But we need the grace of God to reject them.

Jul 23, 7:38 PM

Lisa C: Most often we hear that avoiding the smaller temptations we face prepares us and strengthens us to avoid the big temptations when they come. However, Saint Francis throws a wrench in all this and warns us that those who are able to avoid big temptations should still be humble enough to still be aware of the dangers of small temptations. What do you think about this? Why do you think he emphasized this?

Jul 23, 7:40 PM

Lisa C: I always thought that it is easier to avoid the big sins, because they are so horrible, that they are very obvious and easy to avoid. The smaller sins are less obvious, because we have to really pay attention to see them. The smaller sins are the ones that become more obvious as we become more holy over time.

Jul 23, 7:40 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) We are often more likely to be distressed by a number of small things but slide more easily through a great trial. Overcoming big temptations could make us prideful or complacent opening us up to the possibility of yielding to smaller temptations.

Jul 23, 7:41 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) The small temptations can be sneaky. We don’t realize that they are present sometimes until we yield to them

Jul 23, 7:42 PM

Lisa C: Everything we do without God is not worth anything, and being independent of God will lead us to sin.

Jul 23, 7:44 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) We truly need to keep our hearts and minds entered on Jesus. Keeping our minds actively involved with the Lord leaves less room for temptation to work its way into our lives.‘

Jul 23, 7:44 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) that should be “centered” on Jesus.

Jul 23, 7:45 PM

Lisa C: Yes, being aware of Jesus at all times lets us see the smaller sins more readily.

Jul 23, 7:47 PM

Lisa C: Hi Carol Ann

Jul 23, 7:47 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) Hi Carol Ann.

Jul 23, 7:47 PM

Carol Ann: Hi Every One!

Jul 23, 7:48 PM

Ruth (Guest): Hello Lisa, Judy, Carol Ann, and viewer.

Jul 23, 7:48 PM

Lisa C: Hi Ruth

Jul 23, 7:49 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) Ruth and Carol Ann, please chime in with some answers to the questions. We need some more fodder for our thought.

Jul 23, 7:51 PM

Carol Ann: I am thinking there is a distinction between merely being tempted-–having a thought in your head and actually playing with the scenario of a sin with your imagination,

Jul 23, 7:52 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) That would be enjoying the temptation.

Jul 23, 7:52 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) The delectation that St. Francis speaks of.

Jul 23, 7:53 PM

Carol Ann: Adultery is an easy illustration. You are minding your own business and it comes into your mind how handsome your friend’s husband is. That’s nice you think and move on.

Jul 23, 7:54 PM

Carol Ann: But if you begin to play with your thoughts in imagination, envisioning how handsime, in w hat ways, what it might be like to...now you’Re in trouble !

Jul 23, 7:55 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) That’s like playing with fire. You are likely to get burned.

Jul 23, 7:56 PM

Ruth (Guest): I find this chapter kind of difficult, too. I think that the main reason is that it seems to focus on sin as something one DOES or ENJOYS THINKING ABOUT DOING, even though one recognizes it to be sinful. This leaves out the whole realm of SINS OF OMISSION –– NOT doing that which one KNOWS will advance the Kingdom of God AND CAN DO –– perhaps because some other innocent pursuit seems more pleasant or attractive.

Jul 23, 7:56 PM

Carol Ann: That is the beginning of sin. Particularly in what types of imagining you may be doing

Jul 23, 7:59 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) The actual focus is on the difference between temptation and enjoying the temptation. I am not sure that sins of omission are preceded by a temptation to avoid doing something. In omission, we may be totally oblivious to a need.

Jul 23, 7:59 PM

Ruth (Guest): Interesting, though, that we almost never hear the term “delectation” or even read it in the context, for example, of a guide for examination of conscience.

Jul 23, 8:00 PM

Carol Ann: I too think that omission is not the same as delectation

Jul 23, 8:00 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) I don’t think that the word delectation does not really appear in our common parlance.

Jul 23, 8:00 PM

Lisa C: Maybe sins of omission fall into...“but that at the same time you may ever be humble and full of holy fear, not overconfident in your power to resist lesser temptations because you have overcome those that were greater, unless by means of a most stedfast faithfulness to God.“

Jul 23, 8:01 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (judy) Oops! I do not think that the word delectation appears in our common parlance.

Jul 23, 8:01 PM

Lisa C: Maybe impure thoughts = delectation

Jul 23, 8:01 PM

Lisa C: Thinking about sinful things

Jul 23, 8:03 PM

Ruth (Guest): Judy, IF totally oblivious to a need, and not through our own fault, then there is no sin. But what about, for example, “offering up” –– in union with Christ’s sufferings –– all our little sufferings, for a “cause” of which we are aware but doing nothing –– e.g. the contemporary martyrs. Or even donating what is a “reasonable” (whatever that means!) portion of our goods/wealth to the Bishop’s Fund for local charities.

Jul 23, 8:04 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) Not always, Lisa. Impure thoughts may enter your mind but you take no delight in them and actually war against them and put them our ouf your mind by substituting holy thoughts.

Jul 23, 8:05 PM

Lisa C: That is resisting temptation, not a sin. There is a sin of having impure thoughts that I think equals delectation.

Jul 23, 8:06 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (JUdy) that means that you are taking pleasure in the thoughts.

Jul 23, 8:09 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) Ruth you are right. If you are unaware that the need exists, there is no sin involved/

Jul 23, 8:09 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes, one of our earlier chats included SFdS’s comments ––Jesus’s answers to a holy woman who was troubled by her impure thoughts and fears that she had sinned. She was told that there was no sin because she did not entertain those thoughts (delectation) but fought against them, hated them, because she recognized that they could be harmful to her soul.

Jul 23, 8:15 PM

Carol Ann: How do scruples fit into this?

Jul 23, 8:16 PM

Carol Ann: In one sense scruples can be a delectation because we put the sin in Christ’s place and take a perverse pleasure in beating ourselves up with them.

Jul 23, 8:16 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) How great is our God! Paul tells us in the quote from Corinthians that He will not permit us to be tempted beyond our strength. He will provide a way of escape. In other words, He will give us a means of replacing tempting thoughts with holy thoughts, or at least, neutral thoughts. He gives us the way to battle temptation and its delectation, and with His grace, to overcome it.

Jul 23, 8:17 PM

Ruth (Guest): But is it OK to STAY unaware of the needs of those around us –– or even of those across the globe or suffering, struggling in purgatory? We cannot allow ourselves to be SO preoccupied with the injustices (ANTI-Kingdom of God) that it adversely effects our ability to REJOICE ALWAYS “Again I say ‘Rejoice!‘“ in the Lord, and in all the good, and beautiful and innocent GOODS he offers us –– but I am troubled by the fact that, at least locally, we’ve only ONCE in years publicly, prayed in our churches

Jul 23, 8:18 PM

Ruth (Guest): for the persecuted around the world.

Jul 23, 8:18 PM

Lisa C: Ruth, can you suggest prayer intentions?

Jul 23, 8:21 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) I think that modern technology makes the problems of others around the world present to us-–persecution, poverty, sickness. But we can maintain our own joy in the Lord by not being overly preoccupied with them. We need to acknowledge them and do whatever we are able to alleviate them.

Jul 23, 8:21 PM

Ruth (Guest): Not our loud at Mass, but surely to friends. I’ve addressed my concerns to an active member of the Knights of Columbus ; and mentioned it at Catholic Daughters meetings.

Jul 23, 8:21 PM

Ruth (Guest): Sorry, I type slowly AND my computer just seems to “stall” –– be even slower than I am.

Jul 23, 8:22 PM

Lisa C: Ruth, if you call your parish and ask to have it added to the intentions they will say no?

Jul 23, 8:24 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) Prayer intentions can certainly include the conversion of all terrorists, an end to all wars, the cessation of all means of persecution of those who do not share our beliefs, for an increase of kindness and generosity in our own hearts.

Jul 23, 8:26 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) Also that those of means will use those means to alleviate the hunger and suffering of others.

Jul 23, 8:29 PM

Lisa C: Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host,
by the Divine Power of God,
cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Jul 23, 8:29 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (JUdy) I include the last one in my prayer before meals. “Lord, I ask your blessing on my food and on all who have brought it to my table (farmers, dairymen, etc.) and I ask You in Your goodness and mercy to move those of means to help to provide for those who have little or nothing.

Jul 23, 8:29 PM

Ruth (Guest): Good question, Lisa. I have mentioned it to my pastor, but except for “souls in purgatory” I have not requested Masses said for these intentions. The prayers used locally are all selected from prescribed, published, suggested Prayers of the Faithful. Not sure why. Maybe for the sake of order. In other places I’ve been, seems to me there was a lot more flexibility –– people were even invited to voice their requests for prayers, even during the Mass. And I can understand that only “written” prayers are

Jul 23, 8:30 PM

Ruth (Guest): used as a way of spreading gossip.

Jul 23, 8:33 PM

Carol Ann: That is a concern with people voicing prayers from the pews. Likely they don’t mean to gossip but are not wording things properly

Jul 23, 8:33 PM

Lisa C: God bless all of you! God be praised!

Jul 23, 8:33 PM

Carol Ann: Have a good week Lisa

Jul 23, 8:33 PM

Lisa C: You too

Jul 23, 8:34 PM

Ruth (Guest): Opps! System deleted part of what I wrote. Sometimes in Charismatic prayer groups prayer is used as a way of spreading gossip.pp

Jul 23, 8:34 PM

Guest6945 (Guest): (Judy) have a good week, everyone. Let us keep our minds and hearts under control by keeping our focus on Jesus.

Jul 23, 8:34 PM

Carol Ann: That can be deadly

Jul 23, 8:35 PM

Ruth (Guest): Amen! Judy.

Jul 23, 8:35 PM

Carol Ann: God bless you

Jul 23, 8:36 PM

Ruth (Guest): God bless you, too, Carol Ann, Lisa, Judy –– and all those who Brian has asked us to pray for.

Jul 23, 8:38 PM

Carol Ann: Amen!

Jul 29, 9:35 AM

Chatting about: Encouragement despite Temptations

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