Visitation Spirit

Chatting about Virtue Oct 29 Chat

by | Oct 30, 2017 | Discernment Sundays - Chat Room, Salesian Spirituality, St. Francis de Sales

SrSusan (Guest): Virtue and vice tonight let us stick with virtue

Oct 29, 7:28 PM

SrSusan (Guest): I always refer to the Sacred Heart of Jesus when we think of virtue because all virtue flows from His Heart

Oct 29, 7:29 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Amen Sister Susan !

Oct 29, 7:29 PM

Carol Ann: Hi Everyone!

Oct 29, 7:29 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Tapping into or joining with the Heart of Jesus protects us from vice and helps us live from His virtues

Oct 29, 7:29 PM

Carol Ann: Hi Everyo e!

Oct 29, 7:29 PM

Judy (Guest): This one was the hardest ever. I had difficulty understanding St. Francis’ view. I certainly have never considered the vice/virtue in this manner. I tried to think of other combos like the courage/fear, foolhardiness. I could only come up with one: hope/ despair, presumption. Despair, of course, is the absence of all hope. Presumption is the assumption that no matter what one does, all will be well.

Oct 29, 7:30 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Soo True Sister !

Oct 29, 7:30 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes I do not think in general about vice I do look at sinfulness though

Oct 29, 7:31 PM

Judy (Guest): Hi Brian and Carol Ann!

Oct 29, 7:31 PM

SrSusan (Guest): When I first came to the Monastery virtue was very encouraged but I had little familiarity with thinking about virtue just about trying to be good

Oct 29, 7:31 PM

SrSusan (Guest): So I learned alot

Oct 29, 7:32 PM

Judy (Guest): I think that when I entered the novitiate, the focus was on rooting out vices rather than growing in virtue.

Oct 29, 7:32 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): What did you learn Sister !

Oct 29, 7:33 PM

Dawn (Guest): what was or became the transition for you Mother in thinking less about being good and more about virtue?

Oct 29, 7:33 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Times have different emphases I think I learned that motivation in religious life and the call was especially to virtue not only to prayer which was my main motivation at the time

Oct 29, 7:34 PM

SrSusan (Guest): I had to be taught about virtue I never used that word before religious life

Oct 29, 7:34 PM

Carol Ann: In mine now, there is an equal balance between rooting out the vice and allowing Christ to replace it with virtue

Oct 29, 7:34 PM

SrSusan (Guest): I guess it was like a fine tuning of the soul

Oct 29, 7:35 PM

Judy (Guest): I know that I learned about virtues in elementary school, but I don’t think that I thought very much about them.

Oct 29, 7:35 PM

SrSusan (Guest): St FrAncis de Sales encourages the little virtues like patience simplicity gentleness

Oct 29, 7:36 PM

SrSusan (Guest): They are not dramatic almost hidden

Oct 29, 7:36 PM

Carol Ann: Is “being good” or practicing virtue without a relationship with Christ the clashing cymbal St. Paul speaks of?

Oct 29, 7:36 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Amen Sister ! Soo important !

Oct 29, 7:36 PM

Dawn (Guest): in considering virtue much more than its opposite, and virtue transends, this would require a supernatural grace ( thinking outloud)

Oct 29, 7:37 PM

Lisa C: They appear as love

Oct 29, 7:37 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes

Oct 29, 7:37 PM

Dawn (Guest): your questions

Oct 29, 7:37 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Clashing cymbals yes without love which is the greatest virtue

Oct 29, 7:38 PM

Lisa C: The little virtues are experienced as love

Oct 29, 7:38 PM

Judy (Guest): Patience and gentleness affect our relationships with others. Simplicity is how we live our own lives.

Oct 29, 7:39 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Hi Ruth

Oct 29, 7:39 PM

Judy (Guest): Hi Ruth!

Oct 29, 7:39 PM

Lisa C: Hi Ruth

Oct 29, 7:40 PM

Carol Ann: Hi Ruth!

Oct 29, 7:40 PM

Dawn (Guest): Hi Ruth

Oct 29, 7:41 PM

SrSusan (Guest): The second question almost seems to move us off the topic a little by defining Christian yet subtly or not so subtly that is a real issue for today in an increasing pagan environment

Oct 29, 7:42 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): However when we live the simple life we impact everyone ! Janet’s Grandmother led a very simple life ! She impacted everyone she met with Jesus’s Love !

Oct 29, 7:42 PM

Judy (Guest): Regarding goodness. Being a Christian goes beyond just being good. It necessitates commitment to Jesus; following His precepts out of love rather than fear; seeking holiness rather than mediocrity; being more concerned with the life of the spirit than with earthly things.

Oct 29, 7:42 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Hi Ruth ! God Bless You ! Brian

Oct 29, 7:43 PM

Dawn (Guest): grandmothers remember simplicity

Oct 29, 7:43 PM

Ruth (Guest): Hello everyone, glad you are all here. I’ve been signed in since 7:29, but I’m just “listening in.“ I feel like there is a lot here that I do not understand.

Oct 29, 7:43 PM

Judy (Guest): I hear you, Ruth. That first question was a killer!

Oct 29, 7:44 PM

Ruth (Guest): Oh yes, and again I had to reduce the page to 8o% so that the side column doesn’t cover the chat.

Oct 29, 7:44 PM

Carol Ann: it was very hard, thinking of the transcendency of virtue, rather than as the face-value act

Oct 29, 7:44 PM

SrSusan (Guest): You explained the second one very well Judy

Oct 29, 7:45 PM

Dawn (Guest): yes, the pagan, relativeness so a person living “good” and a Christian I would say the difference being is a Christian becomes brutely honest with themself

Oct 29, 7:45 PM

Judy (Guest): Thank you, Mother!

Oct 29, 7:46 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Ruth is the chat clarifying things a bit

Oct 29, 7:46 PM

Carol Ann: Dawn, and the “good” person sees no need to improve as they think they have already arrived

Oct 29, 7:47 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Very true there is no sense of growing more and more like Christ

Oct 29, 7:47 PM

Dawn (Guest): and as Judy mentions, the motivation is could be fear to be good rather than love of Christ

Oct 29, 7:47 PM

Ruth (Guest): No not yet, Sr. Susan. I think it is confusing me.

Oct 29, 7:47 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Can you explain the confusion maybe someone here can clarify a point

Oct 29, 7:48 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Without Jesus in your life you can think anything is good ! I can’t believe the things I used to think were ok or good before I had Jesus in my life !

Oct 29, 7:49 PM

Judy (Guest): I think that the first question is the confusing one. I still cannot think of other virtue/vice combinations that are like the courage/ fear, foolhardiness. Can anyone offer any offer any others?

Oct 29, 7:49 PM

Dawn (Guest): so true Brian...the great distortion illusions

Oct 29, 7:49 PM

Ruth (Guest): I have considered virtue, and I understand that living it, at least in the face of opposition requires special graces from God, but I do not see virtue as necessarily a Christian thing. I know lots of people who are not Christians and who, in many ways, are far more virtuous than some –– maybe even many –– of the Christians I know.

Oct 29, 7:50 PM

Carol Ann: simplicity-–greed, covetousness

Oct 29, 7:50 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Inn St Francis time most people were Christians so the same contrast might not have been as obvious?

Oct 29, 7:51 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Shows the necessity to Love our Enemies ! They have no idea what Love is until they have been truly loved !

Oct 29, 7:51 PM

Dawn (Guest): Ruth, do you think God can work in a persons soul before they are aware to call it that, to call this God < I think so

Oct 29, 7:51 PM

Judy (Guest): Ruth, you might want to scroll back and read my answer to question 2. That explains the difference between being good and being Christian.

Oct 29, 7:52 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Hello guest 7566

Oct 29, 7:53 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): Only Jesus is good

Oct 29, 7:53 PM

Judy (Guest): Hello guest 7566.

Oct 29, 7:53 PM

Lisa C: ?

Oct 29, 7:53 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): Hello

Oct 29, 7:53 PM

Dawn (Guest): this question moves me to this...God works in so many ways we can not know

Oct 29, 7:53 PM

Lisa C: I think we can be good

Oct 29, 7:54 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): Only his grace is enough

Oct 29, 7:54 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): You can latch onto Virtue and be Virtuous . But true Virtue can only be expressed in a close relationship with God !

Oct 29, 7:54 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): Definately

Oct 29, 7:54 PM

Lisa C: We can chose to be good

Oct 29, 7:54 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): Yes, we can.

Oct 29, 7:55 PM

Carol Ann: God works in our subconcious to heal and transform us, that is grace, and that is why our behaviors change i think

Oct 29, 7:55 PM

Judy (Guest): But we need to go beyond good to being truly Christian.

Oct 29, 7:55 PM

SrSusan (Guest): which means ultimately accepting the Cross as Jesus showed us

Oct 29, 7:55 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): God is always challenging us to grow !!!

Oct 29, 7:55 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): I agreed

Oct 29, 7:57 PM

SrSusan (Guest): This is leading to question 3 about supernatural grace

Oct 29, 7:57 PM

Judy (Guest): We need to accept suffering in our lives if we are to live as Jesus did. If our Lord and Master suffered, how can we expect not to.

Oct 29, 7:57 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): God is great!

Oct 29, 7:57 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Amen !!!

Oct 29, 7:57 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes, Dawn, I used to hike with an avowed atheist, and I could see God’s work in him easily –– I thought he was “like a priest SHOULD be” while we had a priest who was downright mean-spirited, who drove a lot of people away from the church. But Art, the hiking partner, a retired biology professor, was so thoughtful, caring, and full of AWE at everything we saw.

Oct 29, 7:58 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Interesting example Ruth and very real but

Oct 29, 7:58 PM

Carol Ann: We do expect not to though-–because there is the idea in our culture that if God blesses you, everything goes right, and if things do not go right it is because you sinned and grace is not given

Oct 29, 7:59 PM

Ruth (Guest): Dawn, I saw that answer and understand it, I think. You cannot be a Christian if you do not know who Christ is, and do not CHOOSE to commit your life to Him.

Oct 29, 7:59 PM

SrSusan (Guest): An avowed atheist is not consciously giving glory to God yet God loves him

Oct 29, 7:59 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): A personal encounter with Jesus.

Oct 29, 7:59 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): The Enemy does not have to go after those who are already lost ! But the Priest will always be the chief target ! Pray for our Priests protection !

Oct 29, 8:00 PM

Judy (Guest): Involvement in biology would make him aware of how awesome things are. He has considered everything from one celled animals, to the wonders of the human body which is so awesome.

Oct 29, 8:00 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): We need to pray for everybody.

Oct 29, 8:00 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Amen !!!

Oct 29, 8:01 PM

Lisa C: I wish we had more help praying for everyone

Oct 29, 8:01 PM

Dawn (Guest): Amen, but I too have seen God working in others where maybe they are unaware. then I think....Agh...we are called by Christ to love others not to become emeshed in whats going on inside of them.. as tho we could know, as tho it is even our business. we are simply called to love one another, and not decide who is worthly and who is not

Oct 29, 8:01 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes

Oct 29, 8:02 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): Amen

Oct 29, 8:02 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Grace is so powerful it really changes you

Oct 29, 8:03 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Aetheists also tend to be people who are really seeking God . Good to plant seeds while spending time with them . God will open their eyes !

Oct 29, 8:03 PM

Judy (Guest): Re question 3. The woman of Samaria asked the Lord to “give her this water’ always so she would not have to come to the well every day. It doesn’t seem that had the proper comprehension of Jesus’ words to her. St. Theresa was well aware of the action of grace in her life. She had given her life to the Lord in poverty, chastity and obedience and she knew that the living water ws the overflow of the Spirit actiny in her.

Oct 29, 8:04 PM

Judy (Guest): In asking for “this water’“ she is asking for an outpouring of the Spirit in her.

Oct 29, 8:04 PM

SrSusan (Guest): One can try to change oneself but when grace is operative one knows it because the type of change is something one knows one can’t do

Oct 29, 8:04 PM

Lisa C: Yes

Oct 29, 8:04 PM

Dawn (Guest): yes

Oct 29, 8:05 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): Yes

Oct 29, 8:05 PM

SrSusan (Guest): welcome viewers

Oct 29, 8:05 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Living water is the flow of grace

Oct 29, 8:05 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Amen !!!

Oct 29, 8:05 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): The Holy Spirit

Oct 29, 8:06 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Amen !!!

Oct 29, 8:06 PM

Ruth (Guest): The Spirit of God is a Spirit of TRUTH; when one seeks TRUTH one seeks God, even if the person does not know it. ‘

Oct 29, 8:06 PM

Carol Ann: So true, Ruth

Oct 29, 8:06 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Conversions happen with truth seekers

Oct 29, 8:06 PM

Carol Ann: He seeks us before we seek Him, and He knows exactly where to find us

Oct 29, 8:06 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): Amen

Oct 29, 8:06 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Amen !!!

Oct 29, 8:07 PM

Ruth (Guest): Hound of Heaven.

Oct 29, 8:07 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes indeed

Oct 29, 8:07 PM

Judy (Guest): How awesome that our God seeks us out even before we are aware of Him!

Oct 29, 8:07 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): That is beatiful

Oct 29, 8:08 PM

Carol Ann: I always pray the people who find Him without knowing it is Him will welcome HIm with joy when He does reveal Himself to them...“Oh! It’s You!“

Oct 29, 8:08 PM

SrSusan (Guest): He seeks all and each

Oct 29, 8:08 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): He Loves Everyone Soo! He desires everyone to be Saved !!!

Oct 29, 8:08 PM

Ruth (Guest): And not just us, but EVERYONEl

Oct 29, 8:09 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): Amen!

Oct 29, 8:09 PM

Judy (Guest): Just like the father in the parable of the prodigal son, he was waiting on the road anticipating the arrival of his son. So our Heavenly Father is looking out for us even before we are aware of it/

Oct 29, 8:09 PM

Lisa C: Isaiah 49:1
Listen to Me, O islands, And pay attention, you peoples from afar. The LORD called Me from the womb; From the body of My mother He named Me.

Oct 29, 8:10 PM

Ruth (Guest): I think it is mostly negative life experiences with people who call themselves Christians or Catholics that cause people to disbelieve.

Oct 29, 8:10 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Or great losses

Oct 29, 8:10 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Let’s not get in the way but always be available to serve God where and when He calls us everywhere !!!

Oct 29, 8:11 PM

SrSusan (Guest): But to regain faith that is a work of grace and the Holy Spirit

Oct 29, 8:11 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): Yes indeed

Oct 29, 8:12 PM

Judy (Guest): The love of the Lord is a great abyss filled with all the joy we could possibly desire. We would generally fear falling into an abyss. But we should have no fear of falling into the abyss of His love.

Oct 29, 8:12 PM

Carol Ann: Like it or not, people have higher expectations of us than average-–we are expected to be better than average because of Him whom we serve. They are looking at us to be Him for them, just as He says we are. The problem is that this does not allow us to be what we are-–human

Oct 29, 8:12 PM

Ruth (Guest): It is not that Christianity is lacking, it is that it has not yet been tried –– something like this is said by G K. Chesterton.

Oct 29, 8:13 PM

Lisa C: If faith is real can it be lost?

Oct 29, 8:13 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): We have to be available to the wounded Christians ! We are in the middle of a great battlefield for souls and many Christians also have been deeply wounded

Oct 29, 8:13 PM

Carol Ann: I think Gandhi said something like that too, Ruth

Oct 29, 8:14 PM

Dawn (Guest): Lisa...Im wondering if that is a theology type question? can it be, lost I mean??

Oct 29, 8:15 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Jesus wants us to be one ! Our enemy is constantly trying to divide us

Oct 29, 8:15 PM

Judy (Guest): Yes, people do expect more of us because we are Christians. But that does not mean that we cannot be human. We cannot be anything other than human. But we can be humans who live in virtue, or at least strive to do so, because this is what Jesus has called us to.

Oct 29, 8:15 PM

Dawn (Guest): Im thinking one may go thru valleys and highplaces. it could seem it is lost but not lost really

Oct 29, 8:16 PM

Ruth (Guest): But it HAS been tried by those who are saints, and martyrs, esp. those recognized by the Church as such –– and there are efforts under way to have G K Chesterton beatified. He is one of the “Pivotal Players” Bishop Barron highlights in his first volume/video of “Pivotal Players” in Christianity –– a very different sort of saint.

Oct 29, 8:16 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): Our lady, Virgen Mary can help us too in this battle.

Oct 29, 8:17 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Amen !!!

Oct 29, 8:17 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): We are never alone !!!

Oct 29, 8:17 PM

Dawn (Guest): looking forward to Pivotal Players!

Oct 29, 8:17 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Have not heard of that

Oct 29, 8:18 PM

Judy (Guest): I think that it might be possible to lose faith if we ignore it, if we do nothing to nurture it in prayer, reception of the sacraments, reading good spiritual books.

Oct 29, 8:18 PM

Lisa C: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. — 1 John 2:19

Oct 29, 8:18 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Loss of faith may be a choice just as believing is yet faith is also a gift

Oct 29, 8:19 PM

Lisa C: The thing is if we believe God is as great as He is and know Him how can we lose Him?

Oct 29, 8:19 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Not lose God no

Oct 29, 8:19 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Could also be a very very deep wound that requires healing from our Lord Jesus !

Oct 29, 8:19 PM

SrSusan (Guest): he is there for us whether we admit and believe or not

Oct 29, 8:20 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): If he is with us who can be against us.

Oct 29, 8:20 PM

Ruth (Guest): Sr. Google, “Word on Fire.“ Lots of excellent resources.

Oct 29, 8:20 PM

Judy (Guest): We cannot lose Him, but we might lose our awareness of Him, again through ignoring Him.

Oct 29, 8:20 PM

Lisa C: Does the person who rejects God have faith?

Oct 29, 8:21 PM

Dawn (Guest): our deep wounds...but He makes all things new. sometimes it can take US awhile , not him

Oct 29, 8:21 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Thank you Ruth

Oct 29, 8:21 PM

Carol Ann: it can take years, and may never be complete until He perfects us after death

Oct 29, 8:22 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): We cannot judge but we can Love Love and Love !

Oct 29, 8:22 PM

Ruth (Guest): I think you are right, Brian.

Oct 29, 8:22 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): His love is greater than anything else.

Oct 29, 8:22 PM

Judy (Guest): Every day, I ask the Lord to absorb me into Himself so that I may be lost in Him. And I ask Him to permit me to absorb Him so that I may be filled with Him.

Oct 29, 8:22 PM

SrSusan (Guest): We will be so astounded in eternity

Oct 29, 8:23 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Amen !!!

Oct 29, 8:24 PM

SrSusan (Guest): That is a powerful prayer Judy

Oct 29, 8:24 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): Love God with all our heart mind and soul and our neighbor as ourselves

Oct 29, 8:24 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Today’s Gospel

Oct 29, 8:25 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Saw a Monarch Butterfly out the window of the 44th floor of Hearst Tower in New York ! God is Astounding !!!

Oct 29, 8:25 PM

Dawn (Guest): wow!

Oct 29, 8:25 PM

SrSusan (Guest): When you were in NYA a few weeks ago?

Oct 29, 8:25 PM

SrSusan (Guest): I am so glad so many showed up tonight thank you

Oct 29, 8:26 PM

Judy (Guest): Today’s Gospel reading. Our heart, with our affection. Mind, with our intelligence. Soul, with our very life. And with our strength, our will.

Oct 29, 8:26 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Beautiful

Oct 29, 8:26 PM

Lisa C: https://www.trinitydome.org/about/#the-trinity-dome

Oct 29, 8:26 PM

Guest7566 (Guest): God Bless everyone.

Oct 29, 8:26 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Yes Sister ! Thank You for the prayers ! Lian reception was wonderful !

Oct 29, 8:26 PM

Dawn (Guest): is beautiful Judy!

Oct 29, 8:26 PM

Lisa C: The picture is very small, but you can get the idea

Oct 29, 8:26 PM

Carol Ann: Thank you so much Sr. Susan and everyone! Always so much good in these chats

Oct 29, 8:27 PM

Lisa C: God bless all

Oct 29, 8:27 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes thanks Lisa

Oct 29, 8:27 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Prayers for you this week

Oct 29, 8:27 PM

SrSusan (Guest): All and each

Oct 29, 8:27 PM

Lisa C: God be praised!

Oct 29, 8:28 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): Peace Be With You All ! Thanks for your prayers for Kairos Men ! Amazing meeting last Sunday !!!

Oct 29, 8:28 PM

Carol Ann: God bless us, every one

Oct 29, 8:28 PM

Judy (Guest): What started as a tough subject, ended up going well. As we celebrate the Feast of All Saints on Wednesday, let us try to follow them who sought to go beyond being good, to being truly holy.

Oct 29, 8:28 PM

Ruth (Guest): I have a friend who went all through Catholic Schools. We met at St. John’s University in both of us studying for a Master’s degree in Philosophy. While I was in Europe she converted to Judism. Orthodox! She now will not even attend a wedding in a Catholic Church. And yet, she is far more virtuous, I think, than she was when she was younger; she is a loyal, loving person and we pray for one another and speak with one another at least once per week.

Oct 29, 8:28 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes

Oct 29, 8:29 PM

Dawn (Guest): God bless you all, thank you all, and thanking the Holy Spirit who calls us together.

Oct 29, 8:29 PM

SrSusan (Guest): All mystery but God works in all

Oct 29, 8:29 PM

Carol Ann: amen!

Oct 29, 8:30 PM

Guest8278 (Guest): God Bless You All !!! Brian

Oct 29, 8:30 PM

Dawn (Guest): G’night everyone <3

Oct 29, 8:31 PM

Carol Ann: good night!

Oct 29, 8:31 PM

Ruth (Guest): Good night! God bless you, each and every one –– and all the lives our lives touch.

Oct 29, 8:33 PM

Ruth (Guest): I am thinking “perfectionism” can be, perhaps IS, a vice not a virtue. This week, mea culpa, I let it get in the way . .