- By His gift of faith, God comes into our souls, talks to our mind. He proposes truths in darkness, in obscurity. But once this divine brightness of faith comes down upon the mind, it compels the obedience of the intellect without any show of reasoning or argument. Does Faith rest on the reasonableness of revealed truths? To what degree does Faith beget certitude?
- The conviction God gives us that heaven is ours adds greatly to our desires, yet weakens any disturbing restlessness so that God’s promises give us peace of soul which is the root of the virtue we call hope. In what ways does God encourage our hope?
- The conviction God gives us that heaven is ours adds greatly to our desires, yet weakens any disturbing restlessness so that God’s promises give us peace of soul which is the root of the virtue we call hope. In what way is hope natural to man?
SrSusan (Guest): I think faith not only rests on reasonableness of doctrine but also on an intangible in a way for those who may not know revealed truths too well but still have a relationship with Jesus
SrSusan (Guest): Hope and faith are united
Judy (Guest): Hope I’
m not the only one here tonight! Carroll V (Guest): Hi Judy!
Judy (Guest): Hi Carroll!
Glad to “ see” you. Carroll V (Guest): .
. . still a few minutes early, so maybe more to come. . . Judy (Guest): Sure hope so!
Judy (Guest): Welcome viewers!
Judy (Guest): Hang with us.
We seem to be getting off to a slow start tonight. Carroll V (Guest): Yes,
this is unusual. Dawn (Guest): Hi Judy!
and Carroll ! and viewer, hello Carroll V (Guest): Hi Dawn!
Judy (Guest): Well,
I’ ll get things rolling with question 1. Unlike Mother Susan, I do not think that faith rests on the reasonableness of revealed truth since all revealed truth is not necessarily reasonable. For example- – Jesus is both God and man, May is both virgin and mother. We believe on the Word Who reveals rather than on the truth revealed. Faith begets certitude since it is a gift that makes it possible to believe even what we cannot understand. Hi Dawn. Judy (Guest): Oops-
– Mary is both virgin and mother. Dawn (Guest): still here,
thinking about what you share Judy Carroll V (Guest): My mind is wrapping itself around words right now.
. . Dawn (Guest): I think faith not only rests on reasonableness of doctrine but also on an intangible in a way for those who may not know revealed truths too well but still have a relationship with Jesus.
. . . . . . ( just bringing it down the screen to read) Judy (Guest): What do you think Dawn and Carroll?
Judy (Guest): Hi Ruth.
Welcome aboard! Carroll V (Guest): The very beginning of Chp XIV talks about how God’
s inspiriation ( i. e. grace) “ moves the understanding to consent and yield to truth without any doubt or distrust, . . . “ Dawn (Guest): I agree with Mother in that faith is not dependent on one knowing doctrine.
God works in many ways, mysterious ways , in ways I do not understand all, at all Ruth (Guest): Hello Judy,
Carroll V, Dawn Dawn (Guest): is that what she said Judy or am I misreading it?
Dawn (Guest): Hi Ruth!
Judy (Guest): I am wondering if reasonableness is the best word to use.
Perhaps logical would be better. Some doctrines are not logical as the two I mentioned above. They do not seem to go together. From a human standpoint one cannot be a virgin and a mother at the same time. Maybe that’ s what I mean. Mother is saying that faith does rest on reasonableness of doctrine. Carroll V (Guest): This has certainly been my experience as a convert.
There were so many falsehoods that I had been taught and genuinely- even passionately- believed to be true. . . until the Holy Spirit guided me into the path of people who introduced me to the actual truth. The gift of grace inspiring me is the only explanation I have for my certainty in what has been revealed through the teachings of the Holy Catholic Church. Carroll V (Guest): Hi Ruth!
Judy (Guest): Perhaps these things are reasonable from a Divine standpoint,
not a human one. Ruth (Guest): Sr.
Susan mentions an “ intangible” for those who may not be familiar with doctrine “ but have a relationship with Jesus” Judy (Guest): What is that “
intangible” ? Ruth (Guest): I don’
t know about “ reasonableness” or “ logic” of faith and hope. I suspect that that “ intangible” is GRACE. Judy (Guest): Is it perhaps Divine inspiration.
Aha, Ruth, I think that you’ ve got it! Dawn (Guest): There.
. Ruth! Grace Ruth (Guest): And it is definitely given to people who seek reasonable answers to the deepest questions and are highly logical –
– scientists and mathematicians, e. g. Judy (Guest): And so it is grace that enables us to accept and believe even those things that seem unreasonable.
Ruth (Guest): And I think it CAN be given the way SFdS describes,
to the point of certitude. And it can happen all at once, or very, very gradually. Carroll V (Guest): Yes!
Judy (Guest): And again it is grace that enables to see things with certitude.
Ruth (Guest): And I do think that it is OK to keep on asking questions,
to confess, honestly to the ONE who gives that grace that FEELS like KNOWING, has the same sort of certitude, but somehow, somewhere has a sort of “ crack” in it, that that crack is there, that there is within the total assent, yes, areas or moments of uncertainty. It is when and where we find the “ cracks” that the LI Ruth (Guest): LIGHT gets in!
Dawn (Guest): wonderful insight
Judy (Guest): Even intelligence has nothing to do with it.
It is solely the inspiration of God at work in us. Ruth (Guest): AND there are SOME who can give every reason to believe,
can even teach apologetics, who do not accept the TRUTH. They haven’ t been given the GRACE. But MAYBE they have not asked for it, have not opened themselves to the grace of faith and hope – – which do seem to go hand in hand. Judy (Guest): Can we hit question 2?
How does God encourage our hope? He does so through His Word in Scripture and in His sacramental presence which nurtures the virtues of faith and hope. In the Sacrament of the Eucharist He becomes one with us and so our hope grows by His very presence. Judy (Guest): Word and Sacrament bring His inspiration into our souls.
Judy (Guest): And at times He infuses inspiration into us without an intermediary.
Ruth (Guest): Yes Judy,
I think those are the chief ways that we, as Catholics, find that God encourages our hope. But for me it is also the LIVED FAITH of others. Judy (Guest): H-
m- m, that did not occur to me, Ruth. But it surely does encourage our hope. Judy (Guest): If others can do it,
so can I. Ruth (Guest): I didn’
t have much encouragement at home, or at least, that’ s the way it felt to me. And I didn’ t go to a Catholic School until I was in eleventh grade – – with my parents permission but not their approval. Carroll V (Guest): I think He also encourages our hope by allowing certain trials in this life.
. . to demonstrate His fidelity and give us the opportunity to recognize more “ cracks” and accept more LIGHT. Judy (Guest): And so God must have infused you with His own inspiration in many other ways.
Judy (Guest): God so wants us to be in a relationship with Him,
and wants us to love Him, that He will do anything to help bring about these things. Ruth (Guest): In fact,
my father told me about a lot of bad priest, bad bishops, bad popes and one nun who was very mean to him when he was just a little boy. And he told me about the Inquisition and the Crusades, the popular Protestant version – – which I’ ve only recently learned a little more about and find a bit less revulsive, and a bit more understandable now. Ruth (Guest): Carroll V,
that is a an important observation. Dawn (Guest): I agree Carroll,
sometimes alienation can be a good thing. It causes us to cling to hunger for what else is there to do? Ruth (Guest): There’
s a German saying that translates, roughly: What doesn’ t kill me makes me stronger. Judy (Guest): The miracle is that in spite of bad priests,
bishops and sisters, the Church continues to make the Word of God known and loved. Ruth (Guest): It’
s getting through hardships that sometimes, somehow, broadens and deepens our Faith. Ruth (Guest): True,
Judy. Ruth (Guest): But Mahatma Gandhi read the
Carroll V (Guest): In all the reading for this week,
the phrase that leapt out at me the most was in the discussion of hoping and aspiring. . . talking about the importance of “ contributing the weakness of our consent to the strength of His grace. “ Ruth (Guest): Bible and knew enough about Christ to love the Faith;
were it not for the “ Christians” he might have converted. It is often the LIVED FAITH of others that draws people to the Christian/ Catholic Faith; somehow it makes emotional room for God to do His part with grace. Judy (Guest): Hope is what pulls us through.
It is natural to man. Without hope, man woul become wholly discouraged and yield to despair. It is hope that enables him to continue his journey in spite of obstacles, fears, mistakes, sins. Hope inspires us to trust that eternal life is open to us and that it is possible for us to achieve it. Judy (Guest): And it could be because of the lack of true Catholic living that some people are turned away.
Carroll V (Guest): It was definitely the lived faith of others that drew me into RCIA as an Inquirer and kept me in the “
conversation” long enough for grace to work its wonders. Ruth (Guest): Yes Carroll V,
the distinction made between hope – – based entirely on what is expected from without – – and aspiration – – based also on our efforts, in the video was considered important. Again, I think this is partly the antiquated language used in the text. Today, we might say, “ I hope I pass the exam” knowing full well that we have studied, worked hard, and that if we pass it is not entirely a gift from the professor – – although it IS a gift from God that we have the ability to study and work hard. Ruth (Guest): I rejoice in that with and for you Carroll V.
How long ago was that? Judy (Guest): Hope and trust are companions.
In our hope, we trust that the things that God has promised will come to pass. We trust that His inspirations are real and true. We trust in His presence within us. Carroll V (Guest): Joined RCIA Jan.
, 2011 and received First Holy Communion and Confirmation on Pentecost Sunday that year, which was June 12. God be praised! Ruth (Guest): I know a priest,
a Benedictine professor, now living in Austria, who visits his mother near here once or twice per year. He went to a Catholic elementary school. His mother went through several husbands, and is not Catholic. He saw Catholic kids coming out of the confessional, all smiles, and said “ I want that! “ Judy (Guest): Thank God for His action in you and in the support you received from the RCIA program!
Carroll V (Guest): Wow-
almost 7 yrs. ago now. . . time flies. Ruth (Guest): Thanks and praised be God!
Dawn (Guest): Amen!
Judy (Guest): That priest who saw the kids emerging from the confessional all smiles was witnessing the goodness of God shining on the faces of those children.
They were a sign of His love and forgiveness. Carroll V (Guest): Beautiful thought of the witness of those children.
. . I still get SO excited to see the children in our parish preparing for First Reconciliation Judy (Guest): We need priests who follow St.
Francis de Sales instruction that they be gentle and compassionate in the confessional. Judy (Guest): In no way glossing over the sins,
but gently leading them in a different way. Dawn (Guest): very much so Judy!
Ruth (Guest): Karl Stern,
a German physician ( Pillar of Fire) , a Jew growing up in Germany shortly before the time that the Nazis were persecuting Jews, lived for a time in the home of a Catholic couple in Bavaria. He saw their Faith in action and converted to Catholicism. It wasn’ t to get away from the later persecution. We know that Edith Stein, though a convert to Catholicism, was not spared. In fact there were many, many Catholics killed in the concentration camps – – and not because of cultural Judism. Ruth (Guest): Judy,
and how! Judy (Guest): St.
Josh Bosco, whose feastday we will celebrate on Wednesday, was captivated by the gentle bishop and adopted his manner in dealing with the boys who came to live with him. That is the reason that his congregation of religious men and women is called Salesian. Judy (Guest): I guess St.
Francis knew that old saying that you catch more flies with honey that with vinegar. Ruth (Guest): I know a Polish woman here whose happiest memory of the war years was the time she was taken into a Catholic orphanage,
given a Christian name. In fact, in her book, My Nine Lives, she tells of how she survived. Dawn (Guest): thoughts now of how Jesus approached people,
he did not condemn them he forgave them and then told the way to go Ruth (Guest): SFdS was truly a gentleman.
Carroll V (Guest): the sweetness of true Love
Judy (Guest): Wow,
this has been a really good chat! Thanks everyone for your wonderful input. You are all a real inspiration! Let us live on hope to nurture our faith and grow in love of God and others. Have a blessed week! Carroll V (Guest): Thank you Judy,
Ruth, Dawn- Blessings! Dawn (Guest): A great chat!
thank all of you , and the Holy Spirit who counsels and inspires. God bless you all! G’ night + + + Ruth (Guest): I think Jesus was gentle with some,
not so gentle with others – – e. g. the Pharisees. For good reasons. As a teacher and even as a camp counselor, one thing I feel like I needed to learn was that some kids NEEDED to be to be “ yelled at; “ because of the way they were brought up, they just did not believe you really meant what you were saying unless it was in a loud, even angry voice. But those same kids came around even before the week was out; I figured if they could be leaders for misbehavior they had it Ruth (Guest): Haha,
He Ruth (Guest): Here I am reminiscing all by myself!
Good night! God bless each of you – – and Brian with his prison retreatants – – and Sister Susan, with soooo much to do for the Monastery. We are fortunate that she has gotten us together with this chat. Ruth (Guest): Opps,
part of the above was cut off; they had it in them to be leaders for GOOD behavior, too, and they proved that that was so.