Visitation Spirit

Chatting about: Treatise, Book 4 Charity

by | Feb 26, 2018 | Discernment Sundays - Chat Room, Salesian Spirituality, St. Francis de Sales

1What makes possible the decay and ruin of charity?
2. Why does venial sin not destroy charity? What is the harm done by venial sin?3.

3. How does mortal sin destroy charity? How does it destroy charity immediately and not bit by bit?
4. If through venial sin the flame of charity is “smothered, though it is not dead,“ how can we become aware of this so we can respond before it’s too late?

Carol Ann: It is good to be here. an unexpected afternoon of from the Feeding the Bucket Brigade Brigade, because we know, it takes an army to feed an army! the picture at the top of the page of this link is the latest fashion out here.

 

Feb 25, 7:31 PM

Carol Ann: https://m.facebook.com/villagecheeseandwine/photos/a.1432405610340124.1073741828.1428142697433082/2041243916122954/?type=3

Feb 25, 7:32 PM

Judy (Guest): A viewer just watches what is going on while a guest takes part in the discussion

Feb 25, 7:32 PM

SrSusan (Guest): You are doing great Carol Anne

Feb 25, 7:33 PM

Judy (Guest): May you continue to be blessed in the recovery efforts.

Feb 25, 7:33 PM

Carol Ann: Hi Judy, we are cleaning up, but it is slow going because it is just so much. have been through some of the hardest hit areas, and it makes me cry. i walked some of those stretches weekly when i had eye surgeries and had to take the bus, walkng the last mile

Feb 25, 7:33 PM

Carol Ann: notice who is pictured on the tshirt...

Feb 25, 7:34 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Carol Anne and Judy we have a new chatter from last week, Jane

Feb 25, 7:34 PM

Judy (Guest): Is that you kneeling on the bottom?

Feb 25, 7:35 PM

Carol Ann: Hi Jane!

Feb 25, 7:35 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Hi Carol Ann

Feb 25, 7:35 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Hi Judy

Feb 25, 7:35 PM

Judy (Guest): Hi Jane! Welcome to our little family,

Feb 25, 7:36 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Hi Ruth.

Feb 25, 7:36 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): It is beautiful to be with like minded souls

Feb 25, 7:37 PM

Carol Ann: I’m not sure who;s kneeling, Judy, but I’ve had great fun explaining to people that this is St Michael and why that’s coool

Feb 25, 7:37 PM

Judy (Guest): OK, I’m ready to dig in. Question 1: The decay and ruin of charity comes about when we do not make use of the charity in us, when we are not attending to holy love. Charity can be assaulted by a bad object and surprised by temptation.

Feb 25, 7:37 PM

SrSusan (Guest): And charity is destroyed by mortal sin

Feb 25, 7:38 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Repeating that first question: 1. What makes possible the decay and ruin of charity?

Feb 25, 7:39 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Ignorance

Feb 25, 7:39 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Lack of awareness

Feb 25, 7:39 PM

SrSusan (Guest): of needs or of God or both?

Feb 25, 7:39 PM

Carol Ann: i second that lack of awareness. so often we act without thinking and do things we later regret

Feb 25, 7:40 PM

Ruth (Guest): Strong angel with a shovel! A heart-shaped shovel. Good symbol. Is this new for the clean-up effort or has the Bucket Brigade been around for a long time?

Feb 25, 7:40 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): But one cannot regret something he/she is not aware of

Feb 25, 7:41 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Knowledge is power and fuels the love of God

Feb 25, 7:41 PM

Judy (Guest): Yes, we do need to know God to be able to love Him.

Feb 25, 7:42 PM

Carol Ann: Ruth, it is new for this effort. State can clear roads, rebuild bridges and reservoirs, but they cannot clear private property. despite the tony zip code, the people who were hit the hardest cannot afford to dig themselves out and the mud has to be cleared asap to avoid issues with mold and valley fever

Feb 25, 7:42 PM

SrSusan (Guest): knowledge comes from different sources- sometimes thru others, sometimes directly

Feb 25, 7:42 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Also, it is important to understand that our love of God strengths our relationship with God

Feb 25, 7:43 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): This community – provides knowledge – supports growth

Feb 25, 7:45 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Based on St Francis de Sales- we stay on a solid track

Feb 25, 7:45 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): What is a “solid track”?

Feb 25, 7:45 PM

Judy (Guest): Question 2: Venial sin does not destroy charity because it covers holy love as with ashes and when it remains so, its flame is smothered but is not dead of rodead of extinguished. The harm done by venial sin is that it weakens our our ability to remain faithful.

Feb 25, 7:46 PM

Ruth (Guest): Was just going to ask the meaning of the last phrase, Sister.

Feb 25, 7:46 PM

SrSusan (Guest): In other words we stay true to Catholic teaching in its classic forms-

Feb 25, 7:46 PM

Carol Ann: so we must go to confession often to let Jesus remove this layer of ashes and fan our love into life again

Feb 25, 7:47 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Venial sin-It is not as serious as it is more a lapse than decision to not love God The harm is that it weakens us and opens us to other temptations

Feb 25, 7:47 PM

Ruth (Guest): Jesus IS THE WAY, the Truth and the Life, but even Peter, who passionately loved Jesus denied him –– three times –– I think out of fear.

Feb 25, 7:47 PM

Judy (Guest): We must also frequent the Eucharist to strengthen us against all sin.

Feb 25, 7:48 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Fear, however, exists in the absence of love. Fear and love cannot coexist

Feb 25, 7:48 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Yes, I agree. Frequent Eucharist and confession – strengthens charity

Feb 25, 7:49 PM

Carol Ann: i forget exactly how many hundreds of times the Bible tells us not to fear, at least one passage for every day of the year

Feb 25, 7:49 PM

Ruth (Guest): And unless we make the effort to learn the teachings of Christ and the Church that he founded, we are –– anyone –– is in danger of letting the “majority” (the popular culture) influence what we believe about right and wrong.

Feb 25, 7:50 PM

Judy (Guest): Too true, Ruth! Learning the truths of our faith does not stop when we are confirmed. It is a lifelong process.

Feb 25, 7:50 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Society is accepting the concept of “relativism” and it is becoming more and more critical that we stand united in our faith and strength same through such a blessed community – here

Feb 25, 7:52 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): I agree- learning is a lifetime process. It is imperative to learn from a trusted source

Feb 25, 7:52 PM

Ruth (Guest): I agree 5025 (Jane?).

Feb 25, 7:53 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Yes, this is Jane

Feb 25, 7:53 PM

Judy (Guest): The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a trusted source.

Feb 25, 7:53 PM

SrSusan (Guest): the Holy Spirit within also guides us to consult this source and others

Feb 25, 7:54 PM

Judy (Guest): And there are many excellent Catholic books and programs of adult apiritual formation all over.

Feb 25, 7:54 PM

Judy (Guest): Oops, spiritual formation.

Feb 25, 7:54 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Learning how to discern the guidance of the Holy Spirit is priceless

Feb 25, 7:55 PM

Ruth (Guest): I know a pastor who is “experimenting” with a way to engage young adults in his parish. Instead of Holy Communion classes for children, it is their parents who have to instruct their own children, and to do so, they have to learn.

Feb 25, 7:55 PM

Carol Ann: i hope there is good oversight on this program, and that the parents are well catechized. i am totally in favor of making sure the parents are involved though

Feb 25, 7:56 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): The pastor is not providing an equal playing field to the children since the parents may not be capable of learning and then teaching their own children. Perhaps the parents should go to class with the children

Feb 25, 7:56 PM

Ruth (Guest): That’s the idea, the parents are then motivated to become catechized. And he –– the Pastor is an outstanding teacher/preacher and has a good team working with him.

Feb 25, 7:57 PM

Judy (Guest): It is certainly a good thing that the parents are being instructed in the faith.Some of them have probably not sought such information for many years.

Feb 25, 7:57 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Sounds like the pastor is invoking the Holy Spirit in the catholic parents

Feb 25, 7:59 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Question 3: How does mortal sin destroy charity? How does it destroy charity immediately and not bit by bit?

Feb 25, 7:59 PM

Ruth (Guest): I’m not sure that that “method” –– approach –– would have worked very well for me and for some people I know. Because religion was an area of conflict in the home I grew up in, it was basically a taboo to even talk about it or even to have a grace said at Thanksgiving dinner –– until I pushed open some doors in my mid teens.

Feb 25, 7:59 PM

Judy (Guest): In the past, parents usually sat back and left the instruction to the teachers. They were primarily concerned with the dress of the children and the party that would follow. Making them responsible to instruct their children is wonderful since parents are supposed to be the primary educators of their children.

Feb 25, 7:59 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Mortal sin severe one’s love of/with God and so it is instantaneous

Feb 25, 8:00 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): typo- severs

Feb 25, 8:01 PM

Ruth (Guest): But then, maybe it would not have taken so long IF they had “had” to teach me in order for me to go through that “rite of passage” (how sometimes, the First Holy Communion is seen by not-very-well-educated parents).

Feb 25, 8:02 PM

Judy (Guest): Mortal sin in ist self-love, moves us to despise God and in the very moment that we despise God, charity leaves us.It is little by little that we come to despise God, but once that happens, charity forsakes us for charity cannot exist in the same that despises God. They are incompatible.

Feb 25, 8:02 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): We need to get back to questions of the evening. Just trying to keep us focused and on topic.

Feb 25, 8:02 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Great point – Judy

Feb 25, 8:03 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes, sorry.

Feb 25, 8:04 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Mortal sin can be seen as a decision not to love God

Feb 25, 8:05 PM

Carol Ann: because we have made ourselves God and then decide who “deserves” something from us?

Feb 25, 8:05 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Excellent point – Sister. Because if you truly love God- you are aware of the right thing to do and would not choose to do wrong.

Feb 25, 8:05 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): I dont understand your point Carol Ann- could you elaborate?

Feb 25, 8:08 PM

Carol Ann: i think i mean to say that if we have taken God out of the center of our lives, where He rightfully belongs, then something or someone else is that center. Selfishness and pride often means that we put ourselves there, and from that place of relativism we think we have the knowledge to judge our brothers and sisters, of who is deserving or undeserving

Feb 25, 8:08 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Wow. That is powerful. Thank you

Feb 25, 8:08 PM

Ruth (Guest): There are people who are not even sure God exists, let alone ought to be loved and obeyed, and yet at least some of them live very generous lives, thinking of and serving others even ahead of themselves.

Feb 25, 8:11 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): It is so painful to know that there are people who do not validate the existence of God.

Feb 25, 8:12 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): That is why the reparations to Jesus on the first Friday of each month is of such signficance.

Feb 25, 8:12 PM

Judy (Guest): And even more, that they do not have any desire to love Him.

Feb 25, 8:13 PM

SrSusan (Guest): We are so blessed to believe and love!

Feb 25, 8:13 PM

Judy (Guest): They are in need of our prayers. Oh if only they knew what they are missing by not being in a relationship with the Lord!

Feb 25, 8:13 PM

SrSusan (Guest): And we must share that with others!

Feb 25, 8:13 PM

SrSusan (Guest): yes Judy!

Feb 25, 8:13 PM

Ruth (Guest): I think that is true, Carol Ann, especially true of people who have “grown up in” the Faith, but I still see gentleness and kindness and respect for all humans –– sometimes even more obviously than among some –– not this group –– who are nominally Catholic, or even practicing Catholics –– perhaps what Pope Francis refers to as the hipocracy within the Church.

Feb 25, 8:14 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): I believe that each of us is a disciple of Christ and when we speak and act we may spur a shift in someone who does not validate God – just enough to spur a positive reaction to something in their life that catalyzes the beginning connection to God

Feb 25, 8:14 PM

Carol Ann: oh yes, Ruth, i was speaking generally and not of any specific person

Feb 25, 8:17 PM

Judy (Guest): Getting to question 4: If venial sin smothers the flame of charity we can become aware of it by continuing in prayer, in reading the Scriptures and other good spiritual books and by frequenting the Sacraments of Reconciliaion and Eucharist. If we continue in the spiritual life in this way,God will speak in these ractices and call to our minds what our venial sins have done.

Feb 25, 8:17 PM

Judy (Guest): PraCTICES.

Feb 25, 8:17 PM

SrSusan (Guest): We can observe our hearts and actions to become aware and try to fan the flame

Feb 25, 8:18 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): What a beautiful visualization Sister

Feb 25, 8:19 PM

Carol Ann: the Ignatian daily examen can help with this, though sometimes it can be painfully forthright if you are doing it correctly

Feb 25, 8:20 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): I am not familiar with the Ignation daily examen. What is it?

Feb 25, 8:20 PM

Ruth (Guest): Judy, all people desire God, but some don’t KNOW that they do, or the understanding they have of God is distorted. None of us can know God completely, fully, accurately in this life, although, thanks to Natural Law and especially to Revelation, and especially New Testament revelation: “He who sees me sees the Father” [Jesus said], we can all know God enough for our salvation.

Feb 25, 8:20 PM

Carol Ann: it is like the night prayer in the divine office, but more detailed and intese

Feb 25, 8:22 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Thank you Carol Ann. I will look this up after our session. Much appreciated

Feb 25, 8:22 PM

Carol Ann: i have a link for you, but it is being slow to load

Feb 25, 8:22 PM

SrSusan (Guest): https://www.ignatianspirituality.com/ignatian-prayer/the-examen

Feb 25, 8:22 PM

SrSusan (Guest): is that it that you are looking for

Feb 25, 8:23 PM

Carol Ann: that’s the one! Thank you, Sister

Feb 25, 8:23 PM

Ruth (Guest): Thanks, sister.

Feb 25, 8:24 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): So beautiful. Thank you so.

Feb 25, 8:24 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Hi Sister Gail!

Feb 25, 8:25 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Hi Sister Gail

Feb 25, 8:25 PM

Judy (Guest): Lord, open our minds and our hearts so that we might be fully aware of the direction we are taking in our lives. Keep us on the road that leads to You, the road of holy love, of charity, and keep far from us even the smallest venial sin.

Feb 25, 8:25 PM

Ruth (Guest): Hello Sister Gail! Are you a Visitation Sister, or from some other community?

Feb 25, 8:25 PM

sistergail718: I think that venial sin causes the minutest erosion on the soul and so little by little charity is depleted without we being

Feb 25, 8:26 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Carroll V you got here!

Feb 25, 8:27 PM

Judy (Guest): Hello Sister Gail. Sorry that you came on so late in the chat. Carroll V. too.

Feb 25, 8:27 PM

Carroll V (Guest): Yes- Thank you all for your prayers...

Feb 25, 8:27 PM

Ruth (Guest): Erosion is a good word for it; just a drop and another drop, and before you know it even the softness and littleness of water drops can make a big hole or crack in even the hardest, firmest rock.

Feb 25, 8:27 PM

Carol Ann: Hi Sister Gail, and Carroll

Feb 25, 8:28 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): The other day I made the analogy of venial sin being like St Patrick’s cathedral’s exterior which got filthy dirty over years of accumulated dirt but when it was cleaned it was so bright white that it was almost not recognizable- I think that is how confession cleans our souls of venial sin

Feb 25, 8:28 PM

Ruth (Guest): It is best to, as soon as possible,“mend” the little leaks before they do bigger harm.

Feb 25, 8:29 PM

sistergail718: Hi all ... to continue without being aware and then all of sudden ... I am sorry too . Maybe next time I’ll be earlier.

Feb 25, 8:29 PM

Judy (Guest): Thank God for the Sacrament of Reconciliation in which we can restore our selves to our quest for holiness. What a gift the Lord has given us in His Sacraments!

Feb 25, 8:30 PM

Carroll V (Guest): Amen!

Feb 25, 8:30 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Ditto!

Feb 25, 8:30 PM

Ruth (Guest): HE can restore us, with our cooperation.

Feb 25, 8:31 PM

Ruth (Guest): It is an amazing Sacrament that He has given us; that even imperfect contrition can suffice for complete forgiveness.

Feb 25, 8:31 PM

Judy (Guest): My goodness, the next time we meet, it will be another month. Whee does the time go! I wish all of you a week filled with blessings and a deepening of your relationship with the Lord.

Feb 25, 8:32 PM

Guest5025 (Guest): Amen- to you all as well.

Feb 25, 8:32 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Thank you and a blessed second week of Lent!

Feb 25, 8:32 PM

Carol Ann: Time does fly, doesn’t it. We always thought my Mom was kidding when she said the older you get the faster time goes

Feb 25, 8:33 PM

Carol Ann: I will pray that we all have a safe week in which to grow closer to the Lord. God bless us, every oe

Feb 25, 8:33 PM

Carroll V (Guest): Goodnight all- thank you for being here... I will look forward to reflecting on the discussion later!

Feb 25, 8:35 PM

Ruth (Guest): Thank you Judy; thank you Sister Susan, Carol Ann, Jane, Carroll V. Come again Sr. Gail. Every good wish for each of you. May God bless your Lenten offerings, and help you to grow closer to his Precious Son, who teaches us the real meaning of Love.