Given the definition of complacence, which actually means pleasing in this case, how do you define this kind of pleasing love?
How does complacence, or pleasing love, become a transforming force in the soul making it like unto God?
What is compassion, condolence, commiseration, and pity, as St. Francis mentions?
How does complacence, or pleasing love, grow into compassion, as the saint mentions?
Mar 4, 7:31 PM

Mar 4, 7:32 PM

VisitationSiste: There were 2 sets of questions tonite. WE changed them later in the week so feel welcome to discuss any permutation!

Mar 4, 7:33 PM

Judy (Guest): These were hard questions. Hope I hit the nails on the head. Question 1 Complacence, meaning pleasing, whe used with the word love, means the movement and outflowing of the heart towards good, and in our case, that good is God.

Mar 4, 7:33 PM

Ruth (Guest): Greetings everyone. I guess I need to get here before 7:30 to be “in” on the whole conversation.

Mar 4, 7:34 PM

VisitationSiste: Just started Ruth!

Mar 4, 7:34 PM

Judy (Guest): Hi Ruth!

Mar 4, 7:36 PM

VisitationSiste: Great Judy So many people take the current meaning of complacence which is so different than its former use

Mar 4, 7:36 PM

Judy (Guest): Thanks, Mother!

Mar 4, 7:36 PM

Ruth (Guest): One thing I had trouble with was the expression “complacent love. The word “complacent” usually has negative connotations. And here is the reason: Df

Mar 4, 7:36 PM

Ruth (Guest): com·pla·cent
kəmˈplās(ə)nt/Submit
adjective
adjective: complacent
showing smug or uncritical satisfaction with oneself or one’s achievements.
you can’t afford to be complacent about security”
synonyms: smug, self-satisfied, self-congratulatory, self-regarding, conceited; gloating, triumphant, proud; pleased, satisfied, content, contented
in this competitive field we can’t afford to be complacent”

Mar 4, 7:37 PM

Ruth (Guest): As if it is the opposite of “humble”

Mar 4, 7:37 PM

Judy (Guest): But in Francis’ writings, complacent means pleasing or pleasant.

Mar 4, 7:38 PM

VisitationSiste: Ruth that is why St Francis writings can be confusing because the meanings have changed over time

Mar 4, 7:38 PM

Ruth (Guest): However, if we look at the ORIGIN of the word – and another spelling of a word that sounds like the way Francis uses it we find:

Mar 4, 7:40 PM

Ruth (Guest): Origin

mid 17th century (in the sense ‘pleasant’): from Latin complacent- ‘pleasing,’ from the verb complacere . AND com·plai·sant
kəmˈplāsənt/Submit
adjective
adjective: complaisant
willing to please others; obliging; agreeable.
when unharnessed, Northern dogs are peaceful and complaisant”
synonyms: willing, acquiescent, agreeable, amenable, cooperative, accommodating, obliging Ah ha!

Mar 4, 7:40 PM

Judy (Guest): I have never seen it spelled complaisant.

Mar 4, 7:41 PM

VisitationSiste: This sums it all up! But what is the point St Francis is trying to make I wonder

Mar 4, 7:41 PM

Judy (Guest): You learn something new every day!

Mar 4, 7:42 PM

Ruth (Guest): I don’t think we use that word very often. The example they give is appropriate though. It is spelled that way when that is the meaning intended. Maybe the trouble again is in the translating.

Mar 4, 7:43 PM

Carroll V (Guest): The goodness and “pleasingness” of God’s Love motivates us to want to be more and more closely united with Him

Mar 4, 7:43 PM

VisitationSiste: Exactly! It carries us deeper into our relationship with God

Mar 4, 7:43 PM

Carroll V (Guest): ...and , ultimately, to desire to be more like Him in every way

Mar 4, 7:43 PM

Judy (Guest): I guess part of the problem is that when St. Francis writes, he uses language differently from the way we do now. It is a time related thing.

Mar 4, 7:44 PM

Ruth (Guest): I think he means that the delight one has – first in God’s creation, and then as we grow in the Creator Himself – leads us to want to please Him, just like a little child WANTS to please a loving mother/father who gives her what she needs – many good things and lots of affection.

Mar 4, 7:45 PM

Judy (Guest): Too bad we don’t have a time machine to take us back to his time so that we can really understand what he is saying.

Mar 4, 7:45 PM

Carroll V (Guest): That’s beautiful, Ruth.

Mar 4, 7:47 PM

Judy (Guest): IN the second question” When by an exercise of love, we augment and strengthen the first complacency, we are transformed by drawing into our hearts the divine perfection and enjoying the divine goodness by rejoicien in it.

Mar 4, 7:47 PM

VisitationSiste: Yes ! and if we want to please God can we imagine how much He wants to please us?

Mar 4, 7:47 PM

Judy (Guest): Uh, that should be rejoicing in it.

Mar 4, 7:48 PM

Ruth (Guest): Here: Let’s restate the questions. Are these the most up-to-date? Questions to ponder

Given the definition of complacence, which actually means pleasing in this case, how do you define this kind of pleasing love?
How does complacence, or pleasing love, become a transforming force in the soul making it like unto God?
What is compassion, condolence, commiseration, and pity, as St. Francis mentions?
How does complacence, or pleasing love, grow into compassion, as the saint mentions?

Mar 4, 7:49 PM

Carroll V (Guest): Wow- that never occurred to me, Sister... I’ve considered how He always wants what is best for us, but that He wants to please us is food for thought.

Mar 4, 7:50 PM

Judy (Guest): When you think about it, God created everything on earth for our pleasure and use.

Mar 4, 7:51 PM

VisitationSiste: Yes Ruth tose are the revised ones

Mar 4, 7:51 PM

Carroll V (Guest): Good point, Judy!

Mar 4, 7:51 PM

Ruth (Guest): Opps I should have numbered them.

Mar 4, 7:52 PM

Ruth (Guest): And I’m always a bit behind the thread. Sorry.

Mar 4, 7:53 PM

Ruth (Guest): It is said (by whom?) the delight /glory of God is a human being FULLY ALIVE.

Mar 4, 7:54 PM

Judy (Guest): Augustine or Jerome perhaps?

Mar 4, 7:55 PM

VisitationSiste: I really gravitate to the idea of a “transforming force” Love certainly does that

Mar 4, 7:56 PM

Ruth (Guest): So, yes, what makes us more FULLY ALIVE is what He wants for us AND tends to GIVE us. But often we or others or even some “natural” processes e.g. infections, disasters get in the way of receiving what He offers us.

Mar 4, 7:57 PM

Judy (Guest): St. Francis says that we are transformed by drawing into our hearts the divine perfection and enjoying the divine goodness by rejoicing in it.l

Mar 4, 7:58 PM

VisitationSiste: So His Love in us!

Mar 4, 7:58 PM

Judy (Guest): His love and His perfection.

Mar 4, 7:59 PM

Carroll V (Guest): Even in the midst of those things that seemingly get in the way: since evil and sineath, by growing in holiness through His grace, we can continue to embrace being more and more FULLY ALIVE!

Mar 4, 7:59 PM

Ruth (Guest): I don’t care for the “force” part, Sister, because our God is a PERSONAL God and “force” sounds to me far too much like the “NewAge” stuff that confuses people; and – though it may provide a good or at least interesting allegorical content – it also reminds far too much of “The Force” in Star Wars.

Mar 4, 7:59 PM

Carroll V (Guest): ummmm; sin = death

Mar 4, 8:00 PM

Judy (Guest): Maybe power or influence would be better words than force.

Mar 4, 8:00 PM

VisitationSiste: I see your point Ruth

Mar 4, 8:02 PM

Jane (Guest): I have a general question,

Mar 4, 8:02 PM

Jane (Guest): How are the topics selected that we discuss and who writes them?

Mar 4, 8:02 PM

Ruth (Guest): Thank you. I don’t like to be critical (or do I? I do it pretty often, I’m afraid) but I do think it so important to remember that our God is so PERSONAL that he sent his Son to SHOW us something of his nature: Jesus says,He who sees me sees the Father.

Mar 4, 8:03 PM

Jane (Guest): I agree with you Ruth

Mar 4, 8:03 PM

VisitationSiste: The topics are based on the book we are using Treatise on the Love of God

Mar 4, 8:04 PM

Jane (Guest): OK- should I be reading that book in order to better participate in our weekly discussions

Mar 4, 8:04 PM

Ruth (Guest): He also tells us that we will do the WORKS he does, and even greater! Whhoo!

Mar 4, 8:04 PM

VisitationSiste: It was St Francis de Sales work. The Oblates of St Francis de Sales put together these videos on this book and we are using them with some of their questions and some of others input

Mar 4, 8:04 PM

Ruth (Guest): That means, among other things, that we will HEAL people – as he did.

Mar 4, 8:04 PM

VisitationSiste: Yes and viewing the video if that helps

Mar 4, 8:04 PM

Ruth (Guest): And raise the dead! ?

Mar 4, 8:05 PM

Jane (Guest): How do I access the relevant videos for the work?

Mar 4, 8:05 PM

Judy (Guest): So far, I have not found the video to be very helpful/

Mar 4, 8:06 PM

Ruth (Guest): Judy, I think the video is TRYING to cover an awful lot of territory in a short time.

Mar 4, 8:06 PM

Ruth (Guest): But some of the pictures please me.

Mar 4, 8:07 PM

Carroll V (Guest): Ruth: perhaps the new evangelization = raising the dead... I know that being led into the Church brought me in to the fullness of Life!

Mar 4, 8:07 PM

Judy (Guest): Jane, you can access the videos on the materials that Mother sends us each week.

Mar 4, 8:08 PM

Jane (Guest): I will have to follow up with Mother to learn how to get the materials each week.

Mar 4, 8:08 PM

VisitationSiste: You can sign up for the newsletter Jane or go to this website and click on the post about the topic- that might be more difficult to locate

Mar 4, 8:08 PM

Ruth (Guest): What about that kid leaping – arms outstretched, with I love Jesus on her T-shirt?

Mar 4, 8:08 PM

Jane (Guest): Thank you Judy

Mar 4, 8:08 PM

Ruth (Guest): Joy, delight, and approbation.

Mar 4, 8:08 PM

Judy (Guest): You’re welcome, Jane.

Mar 4, 8:08 PM

Jane (Guest): Thank you

Mar 4, 8:10 PM

Judy (Guest): Question 3; Compassion, condolence, commiseration or pity is an affection which makes us share in the sufferings or sorrow of the one we love and taking his misery into our own hearts.

Mar 4, 8:10 PM

VisitationSiste: Which can be so painful but uniting

Mar 4, 8:11 PM

Ruth (Guest): That’s part of the reason I chose a similar picture for my Face Book “profile picture.

Mar 4, 8:11 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes, Sister.

Mar 4, 8:11 PM

Judy (Guest): I wonder if it could mean identification with the sufferings of the one loved.

Mar 4, 8:13 PM

VisitationSiste: Deep identification

Mar 4, 8:13 PM

Ruth (Guest): That may be part of the reason doctors and social workers often “burn out. I was once told by a supervisor, when we were supposedly learning how to interact with patients, that my compassion would make it impossible for me to do the job of a physician. I think it does the opposite; but it DOES slow me down a bit.

Mar 4, 8:15 PM

Ruth (Guest): I bring it all to Jesus; HE helps me carry the burden of deep identification with the sufferings of patients – AND friends.

Mar 4, 8:15 PM

Carroll V (Guest): When I read Chp. 5 of Book V this time, it “spoke” so beautifully to me of ways to deal with the painful nature of contemplating Our Lord’s Passion- what perfect timing!

Mar 4, 8:15 PM

Ruth (Guest): So helpful, Carroll V!

Mar 4, 8:15 PM

VisitationSiste: Yes!

Mar 4, 8:16 PM

Judy (Guest): Last question: The more loving complacency, pleasing love we have taken in the love of our Savior brings us to compassion and makes the compassion we feel for His pains infinitely stronger.

Mar 4, 8:17 PM

Ruth (Guest): Consoling the Heart of Jesus – a book title, by

Mar 4, 8:17 PM

VisitationSiste: The deeper the love the greater the compassion

Mar 4, 8:18 PM

Judy (Guest): Andthe greater the compassion, the deeper the identification.

Mar 4, 8:18 PM

Ruth (Guest): Fr. Michael Gaitly – the same priest who wrote 33 Days to Morning Glory

Mar 4, 8:18 PM

Carroll V (Guest): OH- That’s wonderful, Ruth- Fr. Michael Gaitley- I am in a study group in my church now...

Mar 4, 8:19 PM

Carroll V (Guest): ... a great tool for transcending our fears of suffering

Mar 4, 8:21 PM

Judy (Guest): I don’t know if this makes sense, but I thing that I am less afraid of suffering itself that I am of those things that cause the suffering.

Mar 4, 8:22 PM

Ruth (Guest): Good Carroll V! Preparation for The Consecration to Jesus through Mary according to St. Louis de Montfort?

Mar 4, 8:24 PM

Carroll V (Guest): When I start to re-visit fear of any disability, I think of Leonie Martin- accepting all of her limitations and becoming a Servant of God.

Mar 4, 8:24 PM

VisitationSiste: I was thinking of the suffering we undergo in reparation; there are so many sources

Mar 4, 8:24 PM

Jane (Guest): If people were more concerning about the commissions of sins, I think, they would less afraid of death

Mar 4, 8:25 PM

Ruth (Guest): Judy, you admonished me, appropriately I suspect, about ACCEPTING disabilities; but there is another aspect. God WANTS us well. Surely spiritually; probably, physically, too. AND he is omnipotent. So – we get “stuck” with the question: Then why don’t I get well?

Mar 4, 8:26 PM

Jane (Guest): We need to be mindful that God knows what is best for each of His children (us)

Mar 4, 8:27 PM

Judy (Guest): Because there may be more to be gained by remaining unwell than by being healed, perhaps more merit will come to us, or our sufferings may help another.

Mar 4, 8:27 PM

Ruth (Guest): AND there are some “Faith-healers” who will BLAME the lack of faith or the unwillingness to accept healing on the part of those they pray for when they do not get well. This is, or can be, usually is, a SERIOUS DISservice, even a deeper offense against God, for heaping up ashes on the wounds of others/

Mar 4, 8:28 PM

Carroll V (Guest): These struggles are real and so very understandable. I remind myself often of St. Francis de Sales directives that we should neither prefer health nor sickness- rather, fully surrender to whatever God allows.

Mar 4, 8:29 PM

Judy (Guest): That is wisdom!

Mar 4, 8:29 PM

VisitationSiste: ask for nothing refuse nothing he sdaid

Mar 4, 8:30 PM

VisitationSiste: I hope this Lenten week is blessed for each of you.!!

Mar 4, 8:31 PM

Ruth (Guest): That, by the way, is what we often see played out, very really, in more “primitive” cultures, e.g. in the lowest casts of Hinduism – which gets in the way of accepting modern medical care, clean water supply, healthful food, e.g. even when offered for free.

Mar 4, 8:31 PM

Judy (Guest): Let us increase our compassion for the sufferings of the Lord and idnetifying our own sufferings with His. Have a blessed week, all.

Mar 4, 8:31 PM

Carroll V (Guest): Same to you- thanks for being here everyone. Goodnight!

Mar 4, 8:31 PM

Ruth (Guest): Sister, I have a problem with that. JESUS says ASK!

Mar 4, 8:32 PM

Jane (Guest): God bless you all.

Mar 4, 8:32 PM

Jane (Guest): Have a great evening.

Mar 4, 8:33 PM

Carroll V (Guest): Wish I could stay and chat more, Ruth, ... maybe we can pick this up next week?

Mar 4, 8:33 PM

Ruth (Guest): Oh! I’m just getting “wound up” and it is time to say Good Night!

Mar 4, 8:33 PM

Carroll V (Guest): Duty calls now- so, yes,... we have to say goodnight.

Mar 4, 8:34 PM

Ruth (Guest): Thank you, everyone. And have a blessed Lenten week. God bless!