Let’s talk about the distinction between God’s absolute will and God’s signified will. Why does Saint Francis see it as important to call our attention to this? A lot of people have a difficult time understanding how there can be room for free will in God’s sovereign plan. Some people even go as far as saying that God has pre-planned everyone’s destiny and we essentially live in the conveyor belt of life moving towards our destination (whether it be heaven or hell). How does Saint Francis’ analogy ab
Aug 22, 11:20 AM
VisitationSiste: How does Saint Francis’ analogy above about shoving food in a friend’s face not being a proper form of courteous entertainment be helpful in shedding light on this mystery?
What things in your faith journey have helped you to conform your will to God’s will?
Aug 22, 11:21 AM
VisitationSiste: The way the question tonite was phrased was different than it could have been Usually we talk about signified will vs will of God’s good pleasure, not absolute will.
Aug 26, 7:41 PM
Judy (Guest): I’m ready to rumble. Question 1: Why is it that our Catholic theologians tend to take something relatively simple and make it extremely difficult to comprehend. I went nearly crazy yesterday searching the “Treatise” and Mother’s papers for the definition of “absolute.” No luck! This morning it occurred to me that the signified will of God is the expression of the absolute will of God revealed in the law of Moses, the writings of the prophets, the teachings of Jesus and those of the Apostles.
Aug 26, 7:41 PM
Ruth (Guest): I didn’t do my homework — messing with computer during the time I intended to consider today’s readings and questions.
Aug 26, 7:42 PM
Ruth (Guest): Thanks Judy.
Aug 26, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: yes talking about absolute is a different perspective but signified will is given in the commandments etc
Aug 26, 7:42 PM
Guest1291 (Guest): This lesson seems to be beyond me too, in that mysterious realm where it’s safer to not reach for things beyond my understanding
Aug 26, 7:43 PM
Judy (Guest): I don’t know why St. Francis sees it important to call our attention to it. Why make such a distinction in the first place! God’s will is God’s will and we know it because He has revealed it to us and expects us to follow it.
Aug 26, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: Absolute in this case in our newsletter means more of forced will like that examole of food being forced on a person
Aug 26, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: example
Aug 26, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: Maybe because of forced conversions in those days?
Aug 26, 7:46 PM
VisitationSiste: In the past “forcing” even if not physical, was pyschological
Aug 26, 7:47 PM
Ruth (Guest): God’s will is not always clear in specific situations. Sometimes our choices are not between good and evil but between various goods.
Aug 26, 7:47 PM
VisitationSiste: Very true- like in our current discernment of the future of the monastery
Aug 26, 7:47 PM
Judy (Guest): St. Francis’ analogy obout shoving food in the friend’s mouth is a good one. For God does not force His will upon us, as it were holding a gun to our heads to insure our compliance. He gave us the gift of free will to use in every circumstance of life. And so we are free to accept or refuse His will. We do need to think of the consequences of refusing His will which could result in our eternal separation ffom Him.
Aug 26, 7:48 PM
VisitationSiste: What forces us is not God directly but circumstances or His providence
Aug 26, 7:48 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, Sister, I’ve been thinking about that and praying for all of you.
Aug 26, 7:48 PM
Guest1291 (Guest): We must then always seek to discern His will in everything, which is hard when everything is good
Ruth (Guest): Circumstances are, indeed, important, but as long as God is with us, HIS power can change circumstances.
Aug 26, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: Ah,, good insight too
Aug 26, 7:52 PM
Judy (Guest): I was thinking that it might not matter to God when the choice is between 2 goods. But then I realized that the choice between marriage and consecrated life would make a difference to God.
Aug 26, 7:52 PM
Guest1291 (Guest): It seems like there is a certain number of people that is the minimum for running a monastery
Aug 26, 7:53 PM
Judy (Guest): And so there may be other choices of 2 goods which might matter to the Lord.
Aug 26, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes our vocations are essential choices and part of God’s plan for us
Aug 26, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes to have a true monastic life you need about 8 people minimum
Aug 26, 7:57 PM
Judy (Guest): Do you think that God is hurt when we reject His will? He is a sensate being and since He loves us so much, it must cause Him pain when we reject Him. However, He is not diminished by the hurt as we can be if hurt.
Aug 26, 7:57 PM
Guest1291 (Guest): That is why so many are in trouble. It seems like not much recruiting happened in the 70’s-90’s
Aug 26, 7:58 PM
VisitationSiste: I think Jesus in His humanity is hurt. How the Father experiences hurt I have not thought about!
Aug 26, 7:59 PM
Guest1291 (Guest): It is hard to my head around. If God did not feel our pain, then why woulx He have sent Jesus to save us
Aug 26, 8:00 PM
Judy (Guest): Not to mention the Holy Spirit since many inspirations come from Him.
Aug 26, 8:01 PM
Judy (Guest): Because He loves us so much that He does not want even one soul to spend eternity apart from Him.
Aug 26, 8:02 PM
VisitationSiste: God is so awesome I do not think we can know the fine details of His inner being yet that is what the Trinity is- life of His inner being, somehow
Aug 26, 8:03 PM
Ruth (Guest): I am again thinking of the story of the Israelites in the desert, after twelve scouts were sent to reconnoiter in the Promised Land. Ten were afraid of the giants there, and the fortified cities. Two had the trust in God that made it possible for them alone to advocate for entering the Promised Land. A whole generation had to wander in the desert for forty years because they did not TRUST God — after all the signs he had given them. Only those two scouts — abused by the rest of the Israelites — out o
Aug 26, 8:05 PM
Ruth (Guest): out of Fear — got, of that generation, to enter the Promised Land. All the others died in the desert.
Aug 26, 8:05 PM
VisitationSiste: WE are in a desert situation now I think!
Aug 26, 8:06 PM
Ruth (Guest): How sad.
Aug 26, 8:07 PM
Judy (Guest): Certainly the clergy sexual abuse situation has created a gloom that hangs over the Church and makes it a desert situation.
Aug 26, 8:08 PM
Judy (Guest): Those whom we most expect to trust and need to be able to trust have let us down.
Aug 26, 8:08 PM
VisitationSiste: If all were looking for the will of God in each moment or at least each day and that was central, things like this mite not happen
Aug 26, 8:08 PM
Guest1291 (Guest): The desert is the invitation to take His hand. Out of the wilderness I called my Son, or I found them in the wilderness, the howling desert and nurtured them as the apple of my eye
Aug 26, 8:08 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, Judy. But I find your question about God being hurt when we reject his will interesting. I thing WE are hurt when we reject His will!
Aug 26, 8:09 PM
Judy (Guest): We are certainly hurt when we reject God’s will.
Aug 26, 8:10 PM
Judy (Guest): Carol, also the passage that I will allure her, and lead her into the desert and there will I speak to her heart.
Aug 26, 8:10 PM
Guest1291 (Guest): It would be worse if it were only the Church, but it has happened in every denominstion, every walk of lufe, even in sport where the gymnastics team is neatly destroyed by it
Aug 26, 8:11 PM
VisitationSiste: CarolAnn that’s a helpful quote
Aug 26, 8:12 PM
Judy (Guest): We certainly need to trust in the Lord’s promise to us, for it really looks as if Satan is having his way and leading more people into perdition.
Aug 26, 8:12 PM
VisitationSiste: We too will be led out of this desert!
Aug 26, 8:14 PM
Judy (Guest): We need to pray that prayer from the Book of Revelation “Even so, come Lord Jesus!”
Aug 26, 8:14 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes! But we have to TRUST in God’s promises.
Aug 26, 8:14 PM
Guest9630 (Guest): Carol is back. I think 2 of those quotes are Hosea and one is psalms
Aug 26, 8:14 PM
Ruth (Guest): Brian?
Aug 26, 8:15 PM
Ruth (Guest): Carol?
Aug 26, 8:15 PM
Ruth (Guest): with a different guest #?
Aug 26, 8:15 PM
Guest9630 (Guest): I think I am 2 people now
Aug 26, 8:15 PM
Judy (Guest): Yes, the one about leading her into the desert is from Hosea.
Aug 26, 8:15 PM
Ruth (Guest):
Aug 26, 8:16 PM
Guest9630 (Guest): Very strange on the computer today
Aug 26, 8:17 PM
Ruth (Guest): What, Sister Susan, do you think it would take to turn things around?
Aug 26, 8:17 PM
Judy (Guest): Well, the last question is about the things that have helped us to conform our wills to God’s will. For me it is the Scriptures and the teachings of the Church. the Scriptures lay out that will for us and the Church explains it and guides us in knowing how to live it out.
Aug 26, 8:18 PM
VisitationSiste: I think prayer, fasting and the laity
Aug 26, 8:19 PM
Jane (Guest): I apologize for being so late to join but will read the string.
Aug 26, 8:19 PM
Jane (Guest): Hi everyone
Aug 26, 8:19 PM
Guest9630 (Guest): Hi Jane!
Aug 26, 8:19 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Jane! We are n the last question
Aug 26, 8:19 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hi Jane.
Aug 26, 8:20 PM
VisitationSiste: I think learning that God has a will for me, first and then spiritual direction to help me see it, then prayer to do it
Aug 26, 8:20 PM
Guest9630 (Guest): I think if we fasted as a Church in a spirit of repentense
Aug 26, 8:20 PM
Judy (Guest): E.G. His commandment id “thou shalt not kill.” The Church teaches us that abortion is against that commandment and is not God’s willHowever in the case of self defense or in a just war, the taking of another’s life is permissible to save our own lives or to protect the lives of our countrymen.
Aug 26, 8:21 PM
Judy (Guest): Hi Jane!
Aug 26, 8:23 PM
Judy (Guest): Notice that I say that it is permissible, not desirable. If there is another way to protect ourselves of others, then we should use iet.
Aug 26, 8:23 PM
Judy (Guest): It.
Aug 26, 8:23 PM
Jane (Guest): The world is a hot mess. It is only in our love and devotion to Christ that we can survive and be a beacon of light as His disciple to others we come in contact with. Evil wants to stop us and me must stand strong and devoted to Christ. Archangle Michael is our assistant throught it all
Aug 26, 8:24 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes and amen!!
Aug 26, 8:25 PM
Judy (Guest): I always include the prayer to St. Michael the Archangel at the end of my Rosay.
Aug 26, 8:25 PM
Ruth (Guest): Sacred Scripture, good Catholic authors, the Church seems sometimes to help and sometimes to be a hindrance for me — like I choose to follow the Church’s teachings, I believe that Christ is present in his Church — even, sometimes, in spite of the bad behavior of local priests or the dullness and lack of love experienced, at time in the church.
Aug 26, 8:25 PM
Guest9630 (Guest): Remember when we said it at the end of Mass too?
Aug 26, 8:26 PM
Ruth (Guest): I think it is best not to “throw out the baby with the bathwater” !
Aug 26, 8:26 PM
Judy (Guest): Sure do-we said the Hail Holy Queen and the prayer to Archangel Michael.
Aug 26, 8:26 PM
Ruth (Guest): And sometimes, thanks be to God, the right people come along and say the right things or DO the right things, just when you need it.
Aug 26, 8:26 PM
VisitationSiste: We pray the Archangel Michael prayer every night after night prayer
Aug 26, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: And of course Salve Regina
Aug 26, 8:27 PM
Ruth (Guest): Prayer needs to be followed by DOING what He says.
Aug 26, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes knowing and doing
Aug 26, 8:27 PM
Ruth (Guest): Not him who says,
Aug 26, 8:28 PM
Jane (Guest): Talk is cheap. Actions demonstrate the love and goodness of Christ
Aug 26, 8:28 PM
Ruth (Guest): “Lord, Lord” but the one who DOES the Will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Aug 26, 8:28 PM
Jane (Guest): It is such a blessing to have this group led by Mother.
Aug 26, 8:29 PM
Guest9630 (Guest): Yes, I have learned so much here
Aug 26, 8:29 PM
Judy (Guest): Thank you, Mother for your inspiration and guidance!
Aug 26, 8:29 PM
Ruth (Guest): Indeed it is Jane. And she does it despite having soooooo many other obligations.
Aug 26, 8:29 PM
Jane (Guest): It is discerning that it is God’s will that can be a challenge but realizing that all is by the had of God and all the good we have is from His love
Aug 26, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Welcome 2 more viewers
Aug 26, 8:31 PM
Judy (Guest): Let us all live in a constant attitude of discernment of God’s will for us and then be ready to DO IT. Have a blessed week everyone!
Aug 26, 8:31 PM
Jane (Guest): Blessings everyone. Hope you have a beautiful and peaceful evening full of God’s graces.
Aug 26, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: Thank you blessings to all!
Aug 26, 8:32 PM
Jane (Guest): Amen
Aug 26, 8:32 PM
Ruth (Guest): Welcome! Sister, I usually do not notice when a viewer joins us. That part of the screen is out of sight. You are so observant.
Aug 26, 8:32 PM
Guest9630 (Guest): God Bless Us Every One
Aug 26, 8:32 PM
Ruth (Guest): God bless both of you Carol
Aug 26, 8:33 PM
Guest9630 (Guest): Me and my twin
Aug 26, 8:33 PM
Ruth (Guest): And each of you, Judy, Jane, and visitors.
Aug 26, 8:33 PM
VisitationSiste: Til next time!
Aug 26, 8:34 PM
Guest9630 (Guest): Pray and fast and carry a joyful spirit
Aug 26, 8:34 PM
Ruth (Guest): And ALL of you Visitation Sister(s).
Aug 26, 8:35 PM