How do you suppose one can “cherish, love, and embrace” afflictions “for the sake of the Divine good-pleasure, whence they proceed”? We have had this in discussion before, but are we to assume God is some kind of masochist with all this emphasis on suffering and affliction? Does all this emphasis give the impression that the life of a Christian is doom and gloom? How can we discover the gift of joy promised by Jesus amidst all this emphasis on embracing suffering? Are they mutually exclusive?

What might the embracing of suffering teach us about this life in contrast to eternal life in heaven? Have you known anyone who has undergone great suffering, and yet is full of joy? How does this shed light on the above teaching? emphasis on embracing suffering? Are they mutually exclusive? What might the embracing of suffering teach us about this life in contrast to eternal life in heaven?

Nov 29, 8:40 AM

VisitationSiste: Have you known anyone who has undergone great suffering, and yet is full of joy? How does this shed light on the above teaching?

Dec 2, 7:38 PM

Dawn (Guest): Peace be with you

Dec 2, 7:38 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): Hi Sister Susan , Ruth , and Dawn ! God Bless You ! Brian

Dec 2, 7:38 PM

Ruth (Guest): I had a friend, now deceased, Jeannine , who radiated joy. One of her favorite sayings was,To God be the glory. and often this was said in the context of someone experiencing healing – often through her praying for that person with laying on of hands, usually with other believers praying with her. Another “favorite” expression was just a delighted outburst of “Wheeeee.

Dec 2, 7:38 PM

Dawn (Guest): A Blessed Advent to all!

Dec 2, 7:39 PM

Dawn (Guest): Hi Brian! Hi Ruth!

Dec 2, 7:40 PM

Ruth (Guest): I’ll get back to my answer to the question. Glad you are here Dawn and Brian. Sister told us she’d be late tonight because after the 5:30 Mass there will be a tree lighting ceremony.

Dec 2, 7:40 PM

Dawn (Guest): Hi Sr Susan, oh thanks for mentioning that Ruth

Dec 2, 7:41 PM

Carol Ann: Hi Everyone, happy Advent!

Dec 2, 7:42 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): Hi Carol Ann ! God Bless You ! Brian

Dec 2, 7:42 PM

Ruth (Guest): That “Wheeee! was a little like a “signature” for Jeannine – kind of like your saying, Brian,Keep shining for Jesus! (BTW I put that on the opening page of one of my journals, with the attribution to you, Brian.)

Dec 2, 7:43 PM

Carol Ann: I bought a little tree and advent candles yesterday for the first time in about years.

Dec 2, 7:43 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): Ha Ha Ruth ! I do say that a lot !

Dec 2, 7:43 PM

Dawn (Guest): Hi Carol Ann, Happy Advent to you

Dec 2, 7:45 PM

Carol Ann: it will be, for the first time in years

Dec 2, 7:45 PM

Dawn (Guest): its beginning to look alot like Christmas...trees on top of cars. more this year

Dec 2, 7:46 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes, a blessed Advent to all of you and each of you. Mine started out beautifully. I got my car on the road again last night, got a new battery for it, and bought fresh groceries it seem for the first time in months! And today, we had a

Dec 2, 7:48 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): One of our Kairos Men Inside Prison after many years of dialysis, a rejection , had recent sucessful surgery was able to lead meeting last week he looks like a new creation ! Praise God !!!!

Dec 2, 7:49 PM

Carol Ann: that is so amazing!

Dec 2, 7:49 PM

Dawn (Guest): That is wonderful, praise Jesus!

Dec 2, 7:50 PM

Ruth (Guest): Ohh, I’ll get back to that. Ha Ha, LOL, my dyslexia kicked in in a different sort of way when I read the line above, Dawn, with the music from “it’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas” as “cars on top of trees! And I “pictured” standing trees with cars, somehow on top of them – perhaps washed there by flood waters. . . Then, of course, I realized you meant trees that people had purchased and put on top of their cars to transport them home. But I had to laugh out loud over my mis-reading.

Dec 2, 7:50 PM

Dawn (Guest): Ruth I am glad you have your car on the road again.

Dec 2, 7:51 PM

Dawn (Guest): a little holy humor, you made me laugh at the image

Dec 2, 7:52 PM

Ruth (Guest): Oh, Brian, that is wonderful! A transplanted kidney – his second – working properly? Praise the Lord. And thanks and praise to the donor, especially if it was a live donor . . .

Dec 2, 7:52 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): Amen Ruth !!!

Dec 2, 7:55 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): It’s amazing how he was able to keep trusting God Through all those years of suffering !!! Kairos Community really helped him and he helped the Kairos Community Through it All !

Dec 2, 7:56 PM

Dawn (Guest): There are still many fire evacuees in town. I’m seeing an outpouring of hope! Jesus does work things to his glory. it somewhat goes along with the topic tonight, suffering affliction and hope arising

Dec 2, 7:57 PM

Carol Ann: i am glad Dawn. Here we are coming up on the one year anniversary of when our troubles started. They have told us to expect an El Nino year, and that we might be evacuated two or three times

Dec 2, 8:00 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): Soo Difficult Carol Ann and Dawn !!!

Dec 2, 8:01 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes, and because I had to go to the ER Friday – more problems with my hernia repair that was at last giving me so much relief – and because the hospital has a new “service” to make sure people who are being discharged have everything they need to live safely in their homes, and the new “service person was the daughter of a couple whose 65th wedding anniversary I attended earlier this year – somehow I think she “colluded” with a robust Sister of St. Joseph who was raised on a farm and claims she LIKES to

Dec 2, 8:01 PM

Carol Ann: Every time it rains now we get alerts from emergency management, and we had more trouble with one of the creeks this last week when the storm came through

Dec 2, 8:01 PM

Dawn (Guest): ohmygoodness. I heard there is flooding in Chico, the river has overflowed onto the highway and they are evacuating. this year is different for California, what to attribute to...global warming? are you in line to possibility be evacuated, again . Im so sorry....prayers

Dec 2, 8:02 PM

Ruth (Guest): shovel snow – to get me to learn a little more INTERdependence – that is, to accept help that I really needed.

Dec 2, 8:03 PM

Carol Ann: yes, not from this storm maybe, but they are warning us to stay ready. I think the rain you are getting now will arrive here Tuesday night

Dec 2, 8:03 PM

Carol Ann: oh Ruth, what a great story! And yes, healthy holy Christian interdependence is completely countercultural

Dec 2, 8:05 PM

Dawn (Guest): we got rain then it turned to snow, we did have flash flood warnings tho. Ruth, shoveling snow maybe not in your discharge orders

Dec 2, 8:05 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Sorry I amlate ADvent tonight Was good but it rained

Dec 2, 8:05 PM

Carol Ann: i’ll bet not

Dec 2, 8:06 PM

Ruth (Guest): In spite of all the dangers and troubles in your area of California, Carol Ann, you seem to be more hopeful than last week.

Dec 2, 8:06 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): Was listening too Sarah Groves version of Jesus your Beautiful to Me ! Very soothing Song when times are tough !

Dec 2, 8:06 PM

Dawn (Guest): Hi Sr Susan, happy you made it here!

Dec 2, 8:07 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Me too!

Dec 2, 8:07 PM

Ruth (Guest): No, Dawn, but getting the snow shoveled for me, indirectly, was in the “discharge orders.

Dec 2, 8:08 PM

Carol Ann: a very good day at Mass for me

Dec 2, 8:08 PM

SrSusan (Guest): I don’t think I can catch up though.

Dec 2, 8:08 PM

Carol Ann: Hi Sr Susan!

Dec 2, 8:09 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): Hi Sister Susan ! God Bless You ! Brian

Dec 2, 8:09 PM

Ruth (Guest): Welcome, Sister! Without you and without Judy to keep us on task we’ve been sharing, chatting, but I’ve failed to finish my too long “story” in answer to the question.

Dec 2, 8:10 PM

SrSusan (Guest): That’s ok- it develops friendship

Dec 2, 8:10 PM

SrSusan (Guest): I hope Judy is ok- its been 2 weeks or so. Sometimes she takes courses

Dec 2, 8:11 PM

Dawn (Guest): Brian, Im playing Sara Jesus You Are Beautiful in background as we chat...thank you!

Dec 2, 8:11 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes, you can only scroll back so far . . . Yes, you are right. It is wonderful how we’ve all become friends.

Dec 2, 8:11 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Are you on the first question

Dec 2, 8:11 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): That’s Great Dawn !

Dec 2, 8:11 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Anyway story telling is a great way to share

Dec 2, 8:14 PM

SrSusan (Guest): I like this question: 4.How can we discover the gift of joy promised by Jesus amidst all this emphasis on embracing suffering? Are they mutually exclusive?

Dec 2, 8:14 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Advent is a joyful season and hopeful too

Dec 2, 8:15 PM

Carol Ann: if we remember that He is bigger than all our sufferings, then they seem small

Dec 2, 8:15 PM

SrSusan (Guest): He is waiting with open arms for us now and later!

Dec 2, 8:16 PM

Carol Ann: I was a visitor at a Bible Study this week during work, and the women were sharing sad stories of lost babies and how some women turned away from the church when their babies died , because no one understood them. Then it just popped out of my mouth, God understands because He watched His Son die too

Dec 2, 8:16 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): It was the suffering of a dear friend and her continued Faith and Trust in God that helped bring me back to Jesus !!!

Dec 2, 8:17 PM

Dawn (Guest): By crying out to him in our pain. He knows where we are and perhaps his allowing some affliction is to draw us closer to him. so in this way suffering serves a sacred purpose for the good of our soul

Dec 2, 8:17 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Witnessfactor in both Brian and Carol’s examples

Dec 2, 8:18 PM

SrSusan (Guest): and the joy is knowing He is truly there- sometimes we just want a glimpse tho

Dec 2, 8:18 PM

Dawn (Guest): The Holy Spirit spoke through you Carol!

Dec 2, 8:20 PM

Dawn (Guest): Brian, you seeing a suffering soul in faith, a beautiful witness

Dec 2, 8:20 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): He only allows us to endure what He knows we can handle with Him ! Look at Job and how his Faith has brought and is bringing soo many too God daily !!!

Dec 2, 8:20 PM

Carol Ann: sometimes i think He does because the words come out of me so strong and bold with no forethought on my part

Dec 2, 8:21 PM

SrSusan (Guest): That is a great spiritual gift!

Dec 2, 8:21 PM

Ruth (Guest): I wanted to say a little more about Jeannine. She is for me the “picture” of trust in God, joy, in the face of incredible hardships, suffering and pain.

Dec 2, 8:22 PM

Carol Ann: today the people in my complex i know were all having Samoan Sunday together and one of the people there was saying how God was egotistical because He wants all this worship and adoration. it popped out of my mouth He doesnt’ want your worship or your admiration, He wants YOU! heart and soul and mind and body, He wants a relationship with you!!! The man actually leand back, but then he started asking questions

Dec 2, 8:23 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Wow! Powerful!

Dec 2, 8:24 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): Judy is a Great Inspiration to me !!! Her words just have a depth of her Great Love For God Through Her Great Suffering !!!

Dec 2, 8:24 PM

SrSusan (Guest): What is Samoan Sunday? People from Samoa?WE have a new Monastery in Samoa

Dec 2, 8:25 PM

Carol Ann: one of the people is Samoan/Portuguese and it is a tradition to hang with family on Sundays to do nothing but eat and talk and laugh

Dec 2, 8:26 PM

Carol Ann: we have our own tradition now of gathering on Sunday afternoons

Dec 2, 8:26 PM

Ruth (Guest): I knew from others that Jeannine was a survivor of a concentration camp. She was French. Married an American man, came to the US but could not use her nursing degree here. When I saw her for the first time at a “healing Mass” (she had special permission to do the teaching) one of her adult sons had accidentally shot and killed his brother in a hunting accident. But police were trying to prosecute the young man as if it were manslaughter or murder. What a trial for a mother!

Dec 2, 8:27 PM

Carol Ann: go on, Ruth, what happened?

Dec 2, 8:27 PM

Ruth (Guest): Carol Ann! Wonderful! The perfect response! You’ve truly put yourself at the disposal of the Holy Spirit!

Dec 2, 8:28 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): Amen !!!

Dec 2, 8:29 PM

Carol Ann: it feels so odd, it just overtakes me and i let it

Dec 2, 8:29 PM

Ruth (Guest): I don’t remember HER saying MUCH about that at the time; I learned of it, first, from the man, Leo, who took me to the Mass – about 50 miles from where I live.

Dec 2, 8:31 PM

SrSusan (Guest): What a great group you are- spiritually so powerful!

Dec 2, 8:31 PM

Ruth (Guest): Later, when I got to know her personally – because I volunteer to be her driver when she had an eye doctor’s appointment; then she insisted on having me come into her home and make lunch for me – wonderful French cooking!

Dec 2, 8:32 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): Please keep Kairos Men in Prayer ! 42 new Men signed up for Retreat this week 12/6 – 12/9 !!!

Dec 2, 8:32 PM

Ruth (Guest): We became good friends. She said I was her “sister” and explained, in part “both of us rebels.

Dec 2, 8:32 PM

Carol Ann: Wow Brian, that is excellent!

Dec 2, 8:33 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes Brian!

Dec 2, 8:33 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Blessed first weekof advent!

Dec 2, 8:33 PM

Dawn (Guest): wonderful Brian, Jesus is doing a good work in you for these men. !

Dec 2, 8:33 PM

Carol Ann: Eek, its 5:30 already! May God bless us every one!

Dec 2, 8:33 PM

Dawn (Guest): Our time is up so quickly it seems.

Dec 2, 8:34 PM

Carol Ann: I’m going to have fun with my Advent candles and my little Christmas tree

Dec 2, 8:34 PM

Ruth (Guest): I’d imagined that she must have had a wonderful childhood because through her many trials she was always soooo “upbeat. She had two kinds of cancer simultaneously, a lot of pain, and yet smiling, able to be available to others even when she was hurting.

Dec 2, 8:34 PM

Dawn (Guest): God bless you everyone, prayers. sounds like a wonderful evening Carol Ann.

Dec 2, 8:35 PM

Carol Ann: its the first time in years ive wanted to

Dec 2, 8:36 PM

Ruth (Guest): God bless YOU Carol Ann, and Dawn, and Brian, and of course, Sr. Susan. Let us continue to pray for one another. And prayers for the Kairos men.

Dec 2, 8:36 PM

Guest9914 (Guest): What a beautiful friendship Ruth ! Thank You For Sharing ! Keep Shining For Jesus Everyone !!! Thank You For The Prayers for Kairos Men !!! God Love You All !!! Many Prayers For You All !!!

Dec 2, 8:36 PM

Carol Ann: I will keep Jeannine in my prayers She sounds so wonderful

Dec 2, 8:37 PM

Ruth (Guest): I met a priest the other day visiting here from Buffalo; of course I thought of Kairso, and your work with the men, Brian, and we chatted about the movement of the Holy Spirit through that movement Kairos.

Dec 2, 8:37 PM

Dawn (Guest): Gods love to you all. Happy Advent

Dec 2, 8:38 PM

Carol Ann: and to you Dawn, watch those weather reports and stay safe!

Dec 2, 8:38 PM

Dawn (Guest): You too Carol Ann....have your go bag ready at the door, shoes and pants...I am repeating what my niece said to me!

Dec 2, 8:39 PM

Carol Ann: yes! i will be working close to home on tuesday, but might get stuck on the wrong side of the river the rest of the week.. my go bad will have to be in my car!

Dec 2, 8:43 PM

Dawn (Guest): I will keep an eye on your weather as well Carol Ann. and praying for all of you

Dec 2, 8:44 PM

Ruth (Guest): Jeannine, over time, I learned had had a good many very, very harsh experiences in her childhood. She was thrown in a cold water-filled animal trough and not allowed in her house because she had muddied her Sunday dress by slipping and falling on a mountain pass. But she had had an experience of the presence of God. She longed to receive her First Holy Communion, but was not allowed to until she was nine years old. But the experience of God’s loving presence changed her permanently.

Dec 2, 8:45 PM

Carol Ann: that is harsh. it would have soured many. so glad she heard God’s voice louder!

Dec 2, 8:45 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes, Dawn and Carol Ann. Sorry I’ve been less PRESENT in this chat than I’

Dec 2, 8:45 PM

Carol Ann: we love your stories

Dec 2, 8:46 PM

Dawn (Guest): your stories seem to always fit with what our chat is about, in a very real way!

Dec 2, 8:47 PM

Ruth (Guest): d be, I think, if it were in person. Because I simply am not capable of multitasking – but sometimes I do a pretty good job of “weaving” back and forth when there are multiple “threads” going on at once.

Dec 2, 8:47 PM

Dawn (Guest): I just thought of how oral tradition , stories, are so important!

Dec 2, 8:47 PM

Carol Ann: they are, they are how most history is passed

Dec 2, 8:49 PM

Dawn (Guest): and lessons

Dec 2, 8:50 PM

Dawn (Guest): thank you Ruth! <3

Dec 2, 8:50 PM

Ruth (Guest): I hope that some day – maybe – a canonization process start for Jeannine. I can think of a few people who might be in favor of that. And I just remembered; I now know where her former pastor – that is, in the later years, when she had cancer, and a while before that now is in a retirement home. I should seek him out and talk with him about it; maybe go WITH one or two others who might have a similar idea.

Dec 2, 8:51 PM

Carol Ann: how amazing that would be!

Dec 2, 8:53 PM

Ruth (Guest): I wrote a poem about Jeannine – about one healing service which took place at my local church here; I’ll try to MAKE myself find it and send it to Sr. Susan to post. Always way, way more than I can accomplish in a day.

Dec 2, 8:54 PM

Dawn (Guest): yes, it would be. you seem to have just received a prompting Ruth

Dec 2, 8:54 PM

Carol Ann: we all have so many dreams and wishes and works to do

Dec 2, 8:55 PM

Ruth (Guest): She was in life instrumental in many healings. It would not surprise me if it did not take long to document some miraculous healings after her death.

Dec 2, 8:55 PM

Carol Ann: me neither

Dec 2, 8:56 PM

Dawn (Guest): perhaps the priest that knew her, who you can go visit, could open up a cause for her....

Dec 2, 8:56 PM

Carol Ann: he would know how to do it

Dec 2, 8:58 PM

Ruth (Guest): The son who was accused of deliberately killing his brother (NO WAY!) was eventually exonerated. I can only barely imagine the young man’s pain while grieving for his brother being imprisoned as a suspect in his “murder.

Dec 2, 8:59 PM

Dawn (Guest): yes. and then their mother, Jeannie. for both her sons

Dec 2, 8:59 PM

Carol Ann: seriously, hunting accidents are not that uncommon-i also knew someone who lost a relative that way, but to suspect everyone of evil because of it?

Dec 2, 9:00 PM

Jennifer Koo: Hello

Dec 2, 9:00 PM

Ruth (Guest): That surviving son was at his mother’s wake and funeral. I remember his greeting me; when I went to him to offer my condolences over the death of his mother, he, instead, offered ME condolences over the death of my friend! Such kindness!

Dec 2, 9:00 PM

Dawn (Guest): Hi Jennifer!

Dec 2, 9:00 PM

Jennifer Koo: Nice to meet all of you here

Dec 2, 9:02 PM

Dawn (Guest): His deep suffering turned to compassion for others, so he truly could love another.

Dec 2, 9:03 PM

Ruth (Guest): Here in NY it is just past 9 PM Sunday. Is it 9 AM Monday where you are?

Dec 2, 9:04 PM

Carol Ann: here it is 6pm

Dec 2, 9:04 PM

Carol Ann: i think we lost Jennifer again

Dec 2, 9:07 PM

Ruth (Guest): We must not forget her when we pray for one another.

Dec 2, 9:08 PM

Carol Ann: yes, you were in Maine Ruth? are the sisters still there?

Dec 2, 9:08 PM

Dawn (Guest): thats nice you could share with each other

Dec 2, 9:10 PM

Dawn (Guest): Im thinking..... that is truly dying to ones self

Dec 2, 9:10 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes, Carol Ann. Transfiguration Monastery. I think they are still there. And as far as I know the “community” has not grown, although they had an excellent new retreat house when I was there. I think it must’ve been around 2014.

Dec 2, 9:11 PM

Carol Ann: all those beautiful houses and no one to run them (:

Dec 2, 9:11 PM

Ruth (Guest): And the larger community, that is, the local parish, had a charismatic prayer group that offered personal prayer after Mass on Sunday.

Dec 2, 9:12 PM

Carol Ann: sounds like my kind of place!

Dec 2, 9:12 PM

Dawn (Guest): me too!

Dec 2, 9:13 PM

Carol Ann: hmmm, i wonder....

Dec 2, 9:15 PM

Dawn (Guest): do you know of any CA parishes that offer this? it just seems, more healing groups and prayer groups are really needed

Dec 2, 9:16 PM

Dawn (Guest): The divider is always prowling around~

Dec 2, 9:16 PM

Carol Ann: no, where i am there are definitely charismatic Catholics, but they tend to have to fly under the radar to avoid accusations of mental illness. we lost two of our retreat houses to fire and flood this year

Dec 2, 9:16 PM

Ruth (Guest): CA California?

Dec 2, 9:16 PM

Carol Ann: yes

Dec 2, 9:17 PM

Carol Ann: it does sound like that monastery was a bit unhealthy-they should not have been speaking of each other that way

Dec 2, 9:17 PM

Ruth (Guest): How sad, Carol Ann.

Dec 2, 9:21 PM

Dawn (Guest): The main parish in Paradise, St Thomas, survived the fire. amazing. a woman came to our parish from there, she worked there in some capacity, and talked about it. She pointed out her clothes, that people were leaving very nice quality clothing up here ...anyways the parish survived but do not know if they are able to have Mass there. They are still looking for people. There have been some amazng survial stories...

Dec 2, 9:22 PM

Carol Ann: yes, it is staggering how many are missing-and that most are over 70-and just how little time they had to realize disaster had happend

Dec 2, 9:24 PM

Dawn (Guest): Some of these people come to Mass. I need to reach out and talk with them! sit on the side they sit on.....does your parish do this? the regulars sit on one side, visitors the other...ohmygoodness

Dec 2, 9:25 PM

Carol Ann: we are a little smaller, mostly regulars with a few visitors scattered around on occasion. we all are retraumatized everytime it rains, and watching your nightmare was just too painful for words

Dec 2, 9:25 PM

Dawn (Guest): Jesus would not do this

Dec 2, 9:27 PM

Carol Ann: no, it is not Him, but how quick people are to call it judgement on wicked California, because you know whereever those people who say that are from they are all sinnless...