In the Catechism, it states that the fear of hell is a good start in the right direction, but that one ultimately needs to have a love for God and for heaven. How is that statement connected to today’s reflection? Does this love of indifference leave room for the love of other things/people? What do you make of St. Francis’ final statement about the theoretical situation of the soul who would prefer damnation over salvation if that is what is more agreeable to God? St Francis mentions that we s

we should ideally love the will of God above all else. Just to play the “angel’s advocate, should we love God or God’s will above all us? Is there a difference? How might this influence the statement above about hell/damnation
Dec 6, 5:05 AM

VisitationSiste: one more question: If knowing God’s will is so important, how does one train one’s heart to know it?

Dec 9, 7:34 PM

SrSusan (Guest): I will be a lttle late- still doing dishes- late Mass tonight

Dec 9, 7:41 PM

Ruth (Guest): Doing dishes! That’s what I need to be doing, too. Even though I haven’t had supper yet, or for that matter, only had a few oatmeal cookies on the go this noon/afternoon.

Dec 9, 7:42 PM

Ruth (Guest): But I did have a much needed long afternoon nap and a long telephone chat with a friend who called me from Germany.

Dec 9, 7:47 PM

Ruth (Guest): Difficult topic tonight, I think.Indifference” the way we ordinarily use the word has some pretty negative connotations – like “not caring.Don’t give a damn. Obviously not exactly what St. Francis means.

Dec 9, 7:48 PM

SrSusan (Guest): I am back!

Dec 9, 7:49 PM

Ruth (Guest): I’m back, too.

Dec 9, 7:49 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Hi Jane!

Dec 9, 7:49 PM

Ruth (Guest): And Jane and two viewers are here.

Dec 9, 7:50 PM

Ruth (Guest): Hi Jane; Welcome back Sr. Susan. Any of those viewers willing to join in the chat?

Dec 9, 7:50 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes the questions are rather difficult in the sense that the topic is a little scary for some but I think love conquers all

Dec 9, 7:51 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Indifference as ST Francis understood it is not the way we do- it is more of a holy detachment by putting God first in one’s heart

Dec 9, 7:51 PM

Ev Martinez-Regueiro: I am back...had to get dinner!

Dec 9, 7:52 PM

Ev Martinez-Regueiro: Hi everyone...God Be with you all!

Dec 9, 7:52 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Hi Ruth , Jane And Sister Susan !!! God Bless You All !!! Awesome Kairos Weekend !!! Thanks for all the Prayers for the Men !!! Little foggy just got home after 4 days inPrison !!!!

Dec 9, 7:52 PM

SrSusan (Guest): and Brian!

Dec 9, 7:52 PM

SrSusan (Guest): s a long stretch Brian!

Dec 9, 7:53 PM

Jane (Guest): Hi evryone.

Dec 9, 7:53 PM

Ruth (Guest): Hi Dawn. Glad you joined us. And Guest 5650. Is that you Brian?

Dec 9, 7:53 PM

Jane (Guest): I was reading what I had missed.

Dec 9, 7:53 PM

Ruth (Guest): Hi Jane. And welcome back Eva.

Dec 9, 7:53 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Repeating the question: In the Catechism, it states that the fear of hell is a good start in the right direction, but that one ultimately needs to have a love for God and for heaven. How is that statement connected to today’s reflection? Does this love of indifference leave room for the love of other things/people? What do you make of St. Francis’ final statement about the theoretical situation of the soul who would prefer damnation over salvation if that is what is more agreeable to God?

Dec 9, 7:53 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Yes it’s Brian Ruth !!!

Dec 9, 7:54 PM

SrSusan (Guest): To love others IN GOD is the goal

Dec 9, 7:55 PM

SrSusan (Guest): If asa young person I was not afraid of punishment I might have made even greater mistakes and never reached the point of loving God- but then again, all is grace and out response to it

Dec 9, 7:55 PM

Jane (Guest): Each of us are children of God.

Dec 9, 7:57 PM

Ruth (Guest): If this “indifference” is a good thing in tune with Jesus’s teaching, then it has to leave room for other loves, because Love of God and Love of Neighbor are – ONE commandment, the same, the way Jesus put it.

Dec 9, 7:57 PM

SrSusan (Guest): I would imagine the fellows at the prison might havean insight on all this!

Dec 9, 7:57 PM

Jane (Guest): Along the road of our development we acquire other roles and identities but need t0 realize and get back to the basic and true identity child of God

Dec 9, 7:57 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Amen Sister !!! The choice to reject would definitely put someone in Hell . Not seeking to really know God but doing all the religious stuff with no true relationship with God would also put someone in hell !

Dec 9, 7:58 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes a key identity- child of God

Dec 9, 7:58 PM

SrSusan (Guest): But to choose an eternity without God- that is something I would not want to ponder

Dec 9, 8:00 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Your right Sister Susan ! They live in a very very hypervigilant environment when they get to know God they have very good discernment between true and false Christians !!!

Dec 9, 8:01 PM

Ev Martinez-Regueiro: When I was younger I had a strong belief in God BUT I was very indifferent towards what was sinful and what was accepted. Had I pondered on the true mp

Dec 9, 8:01 PM

Ruth (Guest): I woundn’t either, Sister, but there are people whose notion of God is so distorted – e.g. angry tyrant – that they happily profess to not even believe in hell – or think THIS (live on earth, war, . . .) IS hell.

Dec 9, 8:02 PM

SrSusan (Guest): War is hell on earth I think but usually it does end eventually- as opposed to eternity of it

Dec 9, 8:02 PM

Ruth (Guest): Interesting observation, Brian.

Dec 9, 8:03 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): To spend eternity separated From God is the Worst Choice !!! God is always available to us right up to our Final Breath !!! Life with God is the Best Choice which includes Eternity in Heaven !!!

Dec 9, 8:03 PM

Dawn (Guest): someone who has never known God...may reject God when they hear his name, but we can only pray for that person and remember God sees much more in a soul than we can fathom. He sees all in everyone of us. So, I could not decide which soul will go to hell and which one won’t. We are called to love one another.

Dec 9, 8:03 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Sin is not much considered in ur cultures today

Dec 9, 8:03 PM

Ev Martinez-Regueiro: True meaning on having a true relationship with God Our Father I believe I would have been more sensitive towards what was acceptable to God...to what was God’s Will for me!

Dec 9, 8:04 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Good point!

Dec 9, 8:05 PM

SrSusan (Guest): God is so united within Himself that I would imagine He and His Will are the same in union, in a sense- hard to separate it out: answering this q: ust to play the “angel’s advocate, should we love God or God’s will above all? Is there a difference?

Dec 9, 8:06 PM

Ev Martinez-Regueiro: So true Sr Susan, but in my time it was the beginning of indifference towards sin...better yet most didn’t consider what was against the teachings of Christ a sin. I am 59 years old.

Dec 9, 8:06 PM

Dawn (Guest): If we love God we will also love to do what pleases him and what his will is for us

Dec 9, 8:07 PM

Jane (Guest): Part of loving God is living His will. The challenge is how to learn how to discern of God’s will. Any insight or tips?

Dec 9, 8:07 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): When people can begin to forgive themselves and others God becomes very evidently the Only Choice !!! Unforgiveness can keep people away from God and stuck in anger addiction or one of many prisons

Dec 9, 8:08 PM

Ruth (Guest): Have you read anything by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, Sister? It surprised me that even from a foxhole he could “see” not hell but a sort of spiraling staircase to heaven. Way beyond my understanding when I was reading that in college.

Dec 9, 8:08 PM

Jane (Guest): Agreed- Brian; excellent point

Dec 9, 8:08 PM

Dawn (Guest): So true Brian! about forgiveness

Dec 9, 8:09 PM

SrSusan (Guest): I read one of his works anout the Mss I think, years ago, Ruth

Dec 9, 8:09 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Mass

Dec 9, 8:10 PM

SrSusan (Guest): One way of discernment begins with prayer and then checking insights with a respected spiritual director, also factoring in circumstances and leaving room for God to act

Dec 9, 8:10 PM

Dawn (Guest): , unforgiveness is a prison. a good analogy

Dec 9, 8:10 PM

Ruth (Guest): Forgive us our trespasses AS we forgive those who trespass against us”

Dec 9, 8:11 PM

Ev Martinez-Regueiro: I feel that it all depends where you are spiritually at...to Love God is usually the beginning...but once your relationship with Him gets stronger and deeper...then that is when one beginns to not only fall in love with God but also desire to do His Will, to accept His Will in ALL things. I believe that at the latter point one is getting close to Sainthood.

Dec 9, 8:11 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Sometimes it seems God does not reveal His Will clearly but over time it becomes more clear

Dec 9, 8:11 PM

Jane (Guest): I agree with you Ev

Dec 9, 8:12 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Yes I do too

Dec 9, 8:12 PM

Jane (Guest): Good point Mother

Dec 9, 8:13 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Sometimes God has us go through great suffering in some area of life Soo that we can be there to truly Love People who are going through similar suffering later on !

Dec 9, 8:14 PM

Ruth (Guest): If you do not love our neighbor, how can you say you love God?

Dec 9, 8:14 PM

SrSusan (Guest): A Russian Priest said: After all, the whole secret of life is in that everything should be done, not according to my petty will or my pitiful little mind. The Only Wise and Good Will must reign in everything, and our job is to not prevent it from being carried out both in us, and through us.

Dec 9, 8:15 PM

Dawn (Guest): how often I have gotten in God’s way!

Dec 9, 8:15 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): When we truly have relationship with God we become available to a God to Serve Others in whatever way He needs us to

Dec 9, 8:16 PM

SrSusan (Guest): God is in the neighbor so when we love them we love God too

Dec 9, 8:16 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): God’s ultimate Will is to Save Everyone !!!

Dec 9, 8:16 PM

Dawn (Guest): I believe if we ask him, everyday, to help us do his will. To show us , give us courage and wisdom, I believe he hears our prayers!

Dec 9, 8:17 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Amen Dawn !!!

Dec 9, 8:17 PM

Ruth (Guest): Hmm reminds me of a scripture verse often quoted by Women of Grace – Jeannette Benkovic (now Williams)

Dec 9, 8:17 PM

Ev Martinez-Regueiro: So true Dawn...had I practised that I would have most probably been in a convent today...

Dec 9, 8:17 PM

Jane (Guest): Discerning thru prayer- good advice, Thank you

Dec 9, 8:18 PM

Dawn (Guest): I usually add....please stay with me Lord because you know on my own I can make a mess of things and apart from you, I can do nothing

Dec 9, 8:18 PM

Jane (Guest): Which verse>

Dec 9, 8:18 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Amen Dawn !!!

Dec 9, 8:18 PM

Ruth (Guest): True Dawn

Dec 9, 8:20 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes. Even in a marriage, ASSUMING, one knows what the partner wants is a mistake, or assuming that the partner should know what you want is even worse. They have to talk with one another about their wishes.

Dec 9, 8:21 PM

Ruth (Guest): Prayer includes, talking with God, and LISTENING

Dec 9, 8:21 PM

Dawn (Guest): Amen, Ruth

Dec 9, 8:22 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Ruth Your Awesome !!! Discovery Talk on Kairos Weekend !!!

Dec 9, 8:22 PM

SrSusan (Guest): and perseverance

Dec 9, 8:23 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Amen Sister Susan !!!

Dec 9, 8:23 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Hang in there Talk at Kairos Sr Susan !!!

Dec 9, 8:24 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes Jane, I was just trying to recall. It’s about our duty to keep not only ourselves but others from falling. . .

Dec 9, 8:24 PM

Ruth (Guest): And the name is Johnette, not Jeanette.

Dec 9, 8:25 PM

Ruth (Guest): Correction: Johnnette

Dec 9, 8:26 PM

Dawn (Guest): sounds like a great group, Brian, Kairos, talking about things we all could benefit from!

Dec 9, 8:26 PM

SrSusan (Guest): How often do you go Brian- is it once a month

Dec 9, 8:27 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Dawn you would Love Kairos might be a Group our Your way !!!

Dec 9, 8:27 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Out your way !!!

Dec 9, 8:28 PM

Jane (Guest): Is Kairos like the ACTS retreat for men in the prisons?

Dec 9, 8:30 PM

Ruth (Guest): Maybe the verse is Jude 1:24 or Jude 24-25.

Dec 9, 8:30 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Sr Susan we have 4 day reteat twice a year , a mini retreat twice a year , and volunteers commit to One Sunday Night a Month ! 5 formation meetings for each long retreat to form team !!

Dec 9, 8:31 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Jane Kairos is like Cursillo in the Prison !

Dec 9, 8:31 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Great! Brian!

Dec 9, 8:31 PM

Dawn (Guest): Sr you could if you wish remove what I just wrote, I worry about personal things but happy to share with our group!

Dec 9, 8:31 PM

SrSusan (Guest): Hope your 2nd week of Advent is grace filled everyone!

Dec 9, 8:32 PM

Ruth (Guest): Jane, that is what I was thinking, too Like

Dec 9, 8:32 PM

Ruth (Guest): Cursillo

Dec 9, 8:32 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): We had a lot of guys from Brooklyn Sister Susan !!!

Dec 9, 8:33 PM

Dawn (Guest): Thank you Sr! Happy grace filled Advent everyone. God bless you and keep you!

Dec 9, 8:34 PM

Jane (Guest): God bless everyone.

Dec 9, 8:34 PM

Jane (Guest): Good night

Dec 9, 8:34 PM

Ruth (Guest): Wow! Already 8:30!

Dec 9, 8:34 PM

Jane (Guest): Thank you Brian

Dec 9, 8:34 PM

Jane (Guest): I am not familiar with this. Will look it up

Dec 9, 8:34 PM

Dawn (Guest): Our time goes by fast! G’night

Dec 9, 8:35 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): God Bless You All !!! Keep Kairos Men in Prayer !! Enemy always tries to throw them off course after a Special Weekend with God !!!!

Dec 9, 8:36 PM

Ruth (Guest): Good night, and a blessed 2nd week of Advent to all of you.

Dec 9, 8:36 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Short Course in Christianity Jane !!! Very Soecial !!

Dec 9, 8:36 PM

Dawn (Guest): St Michael , pray for us and for the men in Karios!

Dec 9, 8:36 PM

Guest5650 (Guest): Amen Dawn !!!

Dec 9, 8:37 PM

Ruth (Guest): Yes! Amen!

Dec 9, 8:38 PM

Dawn (Guest): In Jesus name ~