Previously Saint Francis went to great lengths to teach us that we are not required to practice the counsels, but now he is saying we should practice them insofar as we are able. What is the distinction here? (If you want to go deeper: what is the distinction between must and may?) What are ways for people who have not taken religious vows to practice the counsels? For example: How can a married couple practice chastity? How can a wealthy businessman practice poverty? Saint Francis says “to advanc Dec 27, 9:34 AM
VisitationSiste: Saint Francis says “to advance in perfection, is a counsel, as the acts of heroic virtues are not ordinarily commanded, but counselled only.” However, in Jesus commands “be perfect as my Father in heaven is perfect.” How is what Saint Francis saying compatible with this? (Or do you think it is not compatible?) Essentially, is Saint Francis saying that people who do not take vows are incapable of reaching the heights of virtue?If we have a family, our first vocation is to provide for the needs of family memb Dec 27, 9:34 AM
VisitationSiste: members. But charity asks that others should receive our help, too. Where do we draw the line between our primary obligation, and that aid which we should give to others? Dec 27, 9:35 AM VisitationSiste: Sun Chat Dec 30 730pm est Dec 30, 6:29 PM
Jane (Guest): Hi Dec 30, 6:29 PM Jane (Guest): Too early; I will be back- on time. Dec 30, 6:29 PM Jane (Guest):
Dec 30, 7:29 PM VisitationSiste: Hi everyone Dec 30, 7:30 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Sr. Susan! Happy New Year! Dec 30, 7:30 PM VisitationSiste: I hope you all had a blessed Christmas! Thank you and Happy New Year too Dec 30, 7:31 PM
VisitationSiste: Wasn’t sure I’d get here Just had two Missionaries of Charity drop by! Dec 30, 7:31 PM
Carol Ann: what fun! Dec 30, 7:31 PM
VisitationSiste: Contemplative ones. I never knew Contemplative MC’s also go out 2 hours a day four days a week Dec 30, 7:31 PM
Guest608 (Guest): Hi Sister Susan , Carol Ann , and Jane ! Happy New Year ! God Bless You ! Brian Dec 30, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes and Sr had 2 crosses that St Teresa of Calcutta gave her and had blessed! Dec 30, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Brian! Dec 30, 7:32 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Brian! Happy New Year! Dec 30, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: Ruth and Jane! Dec 30, 7:32 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Ruth and Jane, Happy new year to you too! Dec 30, 7:33 PM Jane (Guest): Hi Dec 30, 7:33 PM Jane (Guest): Seems odd that Missionaries would “pass by” at this hour Dec 30, 7:33 PM Guest608 (Guest): Hi Ruth And Jane ! Happy New Year ! God Bless You ! Brian Dec 30, 7:33 PM VisitationSiste: The topics tonight may seem repetitious but I think they purport to go deeper into the understanding of counsels. Dec 30, 7:34 PM VisitationSiste: They were on their way to St Patrick’s Parish to see a priest and a lay woman who knows us brought them over Dec 30, 7:34 PM VisitationSiste: It was a surprise for sure! Dec 30, 7:35 PM Jane (Guest): Beautiful Dec 30, 7:35 PM Jane (Guest): Blessings this Christmastine to all! Dec 30, 7:36 PM
Carol Ann: It is the sixth day. Our radio station has stopped playing carols (: Dec 30, 7:36 PM Guest608 (Guest): Blessings to You Jane ! Dec 30, 7:37 PM Jane (Guest): Thank you Brian Dec 30, 7:37 PM Ruth (Guest): Hello, and Christmas, and New Year Blessing to each and all of you and the people dear to you. Dec 30, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: I imagine strong Catholics practice the counsels very naturally- after all we are all called to help the poor and share what we have, be obedient to the Church, and be chaste within our state of life or commitment within marriage. Dec 30, 7:38 PM Dawn (Guest): Hi Sr Susan, Carol Ann, Brian, Jane, and Ruth! Happy New year to all Dec 30, 7:38 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Dawn! Happy New Year! Dec 30, 7:38 PM Ruth (Guest): And to you Dawn! Dec 30, 7:38 PM Jane (Guest): Very comprehensive point Sister Dec 30, 7:39 PM Guest608 (Guest): Thanks for Prayers for Men at Wende we had 60 Guys at meeting last Sunday Night ! Beautiful Night if Sharing !!! Praise God !!! Dec 30, 7:39 PM Carol Ann: Wow, 60 men, that’s incredible! Dec 30, 7:39 PM Guest608 (Guest): Hi Dawn ! Happy New Year ! God Bless You ! Brian Dec 30, 7:40 PM VisitationSiste: What a great ministry and response! Dec 30, 7:40 PM VisitationSiste: Hi Dawn! Dec 30, 7:40 PM Dawn (Guest): Sr Susan, do you think sometimes we may practice counsels from our conscience and Gods grace, before we may realize who it is, before any conversion> Dec 30, 7:40 PM Ruth (Guest): So glad the “Wende” has been changing hearts and minds in good and beautiful ways. You and your ministry were expecially in my prayers this Christmastime. Dec 30, 7:41 PM Guest608 (Guest): Awesome ! A lot of potential Leaders for Jesus in this new Group ! Dec 30, 7:41 PM Dawn (Guest): that is wonderful Brian! Dec 30, 7:41 PM Jane (Guest): So beautiful Dec 30, 7:41 PM Dawn (Guest): God Bless you too! Dec 30, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: I am trying to think about your question Dawn Dec 30, 7:42 PM Guest608 (Guest): I soo appreciate your prayers for these Men and Women !!! Dec 30, 7:42 PM
Ruth (Guest): Dawn, your question/thought makes a lot of sense to me. Dec 30, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes I believe a well formed conscience and good will might draw a person to follow the counsels but the motivation might not be for God’s glory or because they know it is His Will, if they do not yet know Him Dec 30, 7:44 PM
Ruth (Guest): I think that some of the counsels are practiced even by honest athiests. All people of good will. Dec 30, 7:44 PM
Carol Ann: is that why many say all good people go to heaven–they are following Him without realizing it and would recognize Him at the moment of death? Dec 30, 7:46 PM Dawn (Guest): interesting question Carol Ann….may be Dec 30, 7:47 PM
Carol Ann: and choose to be with Him at that moment of death I mean, when we decide whether to reject Him or not at the moment of death Dec 30, 7:49 PM
VisitationSiste: What would St Faustina say Dec 30, 7:49 PM Guest608 (Guest): Remember however the man who wanted to go back and warn his relatives about Hell . He might be considered a good man . But a great gulf was fixed . Unable to go to Heaven . He never really knew God ! Dec 30, 7:50 PM Carol Ann: true Brian, but St Faustina teaches us to trust God’s great mercy and that we don’t really know Dec 30, 7:51 PM VisitationSiste: re advancing in perfection- it is like growth in other ways- on one level, anyway; one wants to keep getting better Dec 30, 7:52 PM Carol Ann: receiving grace begets the desire to receive more grace Dec 30, 7:52 PM VisitationSiste: So even if certain ” acts of heroic virtues are not ordinarily commanded, but counselled only.”- the goal of growth and love of God keeps us moving forward Dec 30, 7:53 PM Ruth (Guest): Yes, I believe that IF the Faith were presented to them in a way that they could truly understand/appreciate, they would, indeed convert. Many, remain invincibly, in culpably ignorant because we who confess belief do not do so in ways that fully convincing. The Church is the ordinary means that God has given us to come to know Him, love Him, and serve Him — I think they call it being the “custodian of Grace.” But I do not see anywhere where it says that God must restrict Himself to giving Grace ONLY thr Dec 30, 7:53 PM Guest608 (Guest): We can’t personally judge anyone but Jesus warns us that if we really don’t know Him we won’t be able to go to Heaven ! He warns us to that we can be very very religious and not know Him . Remember He says to the religious , I never knew you depart from me ! Dec 30, 7:54 PM Carol Ann: yes, you are so right, Brian, we can be very religious and follow all the rules and say all the prayers but not have that relationship. the relationship is the key and all else flows from it. Dec 30, 7:55 PM Ruth (Guest): through the Church. Dec 30, 7:57 PM Ruth (Guest): Brian does “religious” here mean the Pharisees? Dec 30, 7:58 PM Guest608 (Guest): Mary and Joseph set such a Good Example to us how to Trust God , Discern His Will , reguardless of the negative circumstances that surrounded them ! Dec 30, 7:58 PM Dawn (Guest): ” the goal of growth and love of God keeps us moving forward” ,,,yes, and we may be moving in a way different from another person I think. God calls us and it is desire in our soul to move closer and closer.. Dec 30, 7:59 PM Guest608 (Guest): I believe Ruth that God is referring to anyone who is religious ! Dec 30, 8:00 PM VisitationSiste: So whether we are officially committed to the counsels or not we can all practice them and reach heights of virtue- just look at the married saints for some examples Dec 30, 8:01 PM Ruth (Guest): I’m not sure I know what “religious” means. Dec 30, 8:02 PM Dawn (Guest): yes Sr Susan! I have made vows even tho I am a single lay woman Dec 30, 8:03 PM Carol Ann: that is very inspirational, Sr. and a little bit daunting Dec 30, 8:03 PM VisitationSiste: Never knew that Dawn Thanks for sharing Dec 30, 8:03 PM Dawn (Guest): for awhile I wondered if I could do this but decided if he put it on my heart it must be Dec 30, 8:03 PM VisitationSiste: Yes virtue is not easy and heroic virtue definitely means sanctity is close Dec 30, 8:03 PM Ruth (Guest): Is it following rules of a particular “religious confession.” Is it seeing the world with a sense of awe and wonder? Dec 30, 8:04 PM Guest608 (Guest): Ruth someone who follows all their Church practices but has not ever really known God . The practices of their religion have become more important than having relationship with God ! Religion has become an obstacle to knowing God instead of a way to get closer to God ! Dec 30, 8:04 PM Ruth (Guest): Yes, Dawn, I’d like to hear more about the “vows. Dec 30, 8:05 PM Carol Ann: How did you decide to vow, Dawn? Dec 30, 8:07 PM Ruth (Guest): One of the reasons I think, in a strange sort of way, that the hardships and loneliness I experienced as a child — the HUNGER and THIRST — were actually blessings, is that they practically “drove” me to seek God: “God if you exist help me to come to know You as You are.” Dec 30, 8:08 PM Carol Ann: because no one around modeled Him Dec 30, 8:10 PM Dawn (Guest): Vows, were not in a formal sense. although when I first returned to the church i had this desire to become a religious, to become a sister. sometimes I still do! Dec 30, 8:10 PM VisitationSiste: God guides each soul in very unique ways to Himself Dec 30, 8:10 PM Guest608 (Guest): Amen Ruth !!! Dec 30, 8:10 PM Carol Ann: me too, Dawn! Dec 30, 8:10 PM Guest608 (Guest): Amen Sister Susan !!! Dec 30, 8:11 PM Jane (Guest): Each soul needs quiet silence to hear the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit; external noise is a real hindrance to our relationship with God. Dec 30, 8:13 PM Guest608 (Guest): Jane that is what God provides the Men and Women on Kairos Weekend . Dec 30, 8:13 PM Jane (Guest): Beautiful – Brian Dec 30, 8:15 PM Ruth (Guest): How true that is Jane. And this world is soooooo full of noise. One of the reasons I love my home here is that it is usually quiet or even silent. I’ve visited convents where the radio was on practically all the time, doctors’ waiting rooms where the TV is never turned off. Dec 30, 8:16 PM Ruth (Guest): Hikers won’t hear the bird songs or the rustling of leaves or water because they are wearing ear phones. Dec 30, 8:17 PM Guest608 (Guest): Great Opportunity too evangelize around the country with soo many Catholic Retreat Centers ! We need to market these retreat centers like the world markets vacations , spas , etc !!! Dec 30, 8:17 PM Ruth (Guest): Still, I thank God every day that I can hear (I’d lost my hearing but regained it, despite only a slim chance of doing so), I can see. Dec 30, 8:17 PM VisitationSiste: Explain more Brian Interesting! Dec 30, 8:18 PM Carol Ann: would love to run a retreat center Dec 30, 8:19 PM Ruth (Guest): Interesting idea, Carol Ann. Dec 30, 8:19 PM Carol Ann: it is my fondest wish, even more than being cloistered Dec 30, 8:19 PM Jane (Guest): Great point Brian – a religious spa weekend Dec 30, 8:19 PM Guest608 (Guest): People are soo sick of the busy life an opportunity to go to retreat center surrounded by prayer would be a great relief for Soo many ! Dec 30, 8:20 PM VisitationSiste: Yes! and monasteries give retreats too! Dec 30, 8:20 PM Dawn (Guest): It is a blessing, as Ruth says, to live where it is more quiet. Dec 30, 8:20 PM Jane (Guest): I would truly love to run a retreat center too Dec 30, 8:21 PM Ruth (Guest): Carol Ann, check out Our Lady of the Adirondacks House of Prayer on line. We are approved by the Bishop, but presently in need of live-in leadership, people to run the House of Prayer, to welcome guests . . . Dec 30, 8:21 PM Guest608 (Guest): Even an Hour of Silence surrounded by prayer warriors could become a beginning for someone to seek a life with God ! Dec 30, 8:21 PM Jane (Guest): I have attended several silent retreats. Each one has been a truly special connection with God. Truly life affirming Dec 30, 8:21 PM Dawn (Guest): yes,so many monasteries do. Sr, you receive people there, right? Dec 30, 8:22 PM VisitationSiste: Yes Dec 30, 8:22 PM Carol Ann: really Ruth? Dec 30, 8:22 PM VisitationSiste: What a connection, Carol Anne! Dec 30, 8:22 PM Carol Ann: oh and what a choice….. Dec 30, 8:23 PM Ruth (Guest): YES! Carol Ann. YES! Jane. Dec 30, 8:23 PM Dawn (Guest): a wonderful exciting idea Carol Ann! Dec 30, 8:24 PM Dawn (Guest): and Jane…. Dec 30, 8:24 PM Carol Ann: i;m in awe Dec 30, 8:25 PM Carol Ann: i have googled the House for when we are done. The Brothers and Sisters sold our retreat house because it was hard to run. we do our retreats at the monastery now Dec 30, 8:25 PM VisitationSiste: Let’s support this with our prayers Dec 30, 8:25 PM Dawn (Guest): I think I recall it being said here in chat that God;s will appears in the circumstances in our life or something Dec 30, 8:26 PM Dawn (Guest): close to that Dec 30, 8:26 PM Jane (Guest): Anyone familiar with the ACTS Retreats Dec 30, 8:26 PM VisitationSiste: No Dec 30, 8:27 PM Jane (Guest): Very powerful. Dec 30, 8:27 PM Jane (Guest): Thursday evening through Sunday Mass Dec 30, 8:27 PM VisitationSiste: Last question- not sure it was expressed well: Where do we draw the line between our primary obligation, and that aid which we should give to others? Dec 30, 8:28 PM Guest608 (Guest): Cursillo weekends very powerful and life changing ! Dec 30, 8:28 PM VisitationSiste: Drawing a line sounds rather formal, or heartless or something- but I guess prioritizing is what it meanswe Dec 30, 8:29 PM VisitationSiste: Never did cursillo either Dec 30, 8:29 PM Carol Ann: we should give to our families first, and to others after, and we should not beggar our families to help either? Dec 30, 8:30 PM Jane (Guest): Just looked up Cursillo weekend- not the same. ACTS is Catholic but non-Catholics are always welcome Dec 30, 8:30 PM Dawn (Guest): would we say our primary or first obligation is to do Gods will? hard to understand question Dec 30, 8:30 PM Jane (Guest): I think it means – boundaries Dec 30, 8:31 PM Jane (Guest): Our first obligation is to follow and accept God’s will. Dec 30, 8:31 PM Jane (Guest): The problem though is when a household does not follow this- you dont realize the non-conformity Dec 30, 8:32 PM Guest608 (Guest): Discerning God’s Will like Mary and Joseph were able to do ! Dec 30, 8:32 PM VisitationSiste: Very true- and in some cases of saints again- God’ will led the saint to a duty where the family was not primary- though that is rare and I would have to look upexamples For next time! Dec 30, 8:32 PM Dawn (Guest): yes Brian! Dec 30, 8:32 PM Ruth (Guest): The present House Director has her own home not far from there; she’s been an amazing volunteer maintaining the property, but she has a grown son at home who really needs her. The President of the Board is also very dedicated, and a third order Franciscan but she, too, has a responsibility to a son who has serious mental illness. Two examples of people “torn” between family responsibilities (primary obligation) and trying to keep the House of Prayer afloat. Financially, too, it is always touch or go whet Dec 30, 8:32 PM VisitationSiste: Good example! Dec 30, 8:33 PM VisitationSiste: Have a blessed New Year everyone and let’s pray for each other! Dec 30, 8:33 PM Ruth (Guest): whether or not the House of Prayer can continue to exist. Dec 30, 8:33 PM Jane (Guest): I’ d love to learn of some examples next time Dec 30, 8:33 PM Dawn (Guest): Our hour is seeming shorter!! Dec 30, 8:34 PM Carol Ann: way too short! we were just getting started! Dec 30, 8:34 PM Guest608 (Guest): God Bless You All Dec 30, 8:34 PM Carol Ann: Happy New Year! and may God bless us, every one Dec 30, 8:34 PM Jane (Guest): Happy New Year and blessings to all! Dec 30, 8:34 PM Jane (Guest): Good night Dec 30, 8:35 PM Guest608 (Guest): Keep Shining for Jesus !!! God Bless You !!! Brian Dec 30, 8:35 PM Dawn (Guest): God bless us all and yes let us keep one another in prayer. Dec 30, 8:35 PM Jane (Guest): Thank you Brian Dec 30, 8:36 PM Carol Ann: See you next year! Dec 30, 8:37 PM Ruth (Guest): God bless you, and bless us all in 2019.