PM
VisitationSiste: Looking at the example given of Simeon Stylites, is mortification of the heart a sign of spiritual maturity versus mortification of the body? Why is it so? Is it possible to have true mortification of the body without that of the heart? Or true mortification of the heart without that of the body? How do we find the balance? Saint Francis states that the first inspiration God will give us is obedience. How do we see this in the example of Saint Paul? Why do you think God did not want Saint Paul to
Jan 27, 7:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Why
do you think God did not want Saint Paul to simply go off on his own after his
conversion?
If you have a great new idea for the Church, and yet know that obedience to the
hierarchy is necessary, how do you balance the two? Think of Mother Angelica,
and how she founded and developed EWTN amidst many struggles with certain
bishops.
Jan 27, 7:29 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: Hi Everyone!
Jan 27, 7:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Carroll Did you see Sr M Dolores
Jan 27, 7:29 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Sr. Susan Marie- I was so happy to get to spend Holy Father’s Feast Day with Sr. Mary Dolores… and I am grateful to be back on chat, even though I will have to step maway if George’s bed alarm goes off or if his wife, Ginny, calls me.
Jan 27, 7:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Carole Anne- seems like this is working- the new site
Jan 27, 7:30 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: It even let me log in with my old password. I have no idea what it is, but there it was, saved for me
Jan 27, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: Great!
Jan 27, 7:32 PM
Carroll (Guest): The new website really is beautiful and easy to navigate. Thanks, Kevin!
Jan 27, 7:33 PM
VisitationSiste: Welcome viewers- tonight we will start with reflecting on mortification of the heart- not a usual phrase
Jan 27, 7:34 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hello everyone! great new web design, thank you
Jan 27, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: Mostly when we think of mortification, often during Lent, we think of fasting
Jan 27, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Dawn- great- you got in easiluy too
Jan 27, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Kristi!
Jan 27, 7:34 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hello! excited to be here!
Jan 27, 7:34 PM
Dawn (Guest): I did not sign in, but will try that later
Jan 27, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: Do any of you who have been here a long time remember bernadette from Australia
Jan 27, 7:35 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: Hi Dawn & Kristi
Jan 27, 7:35 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: i think so
Jan 27, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: I Just received a letter from her- she joined the Carmelites in Australia and is a novice
Jan 27, 7:35 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: that is wonderful news!
Jan 27, 7:36 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Sr Susan, Carol Ann Carroll Ruth and Kristi!
Jan 27, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: Anyway, mortification is often thought of in physical terms, but that of mortifying our heart and desires- that is not easy either
Jan 27, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Ruth
Jan 27, 7:36 PM
Kristi (Guest): Thanks for the welcome.
Jan 27, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: Yet St Francis de Sales wanted such a strong interior life for Visitandines, even if they were not physically strong, so he emphasized the mortification of our interior
Jan 27, 7:38 PM
Dawn (Guest): this would be mortifying our heart, our self love and will and attachments?
Jan 27, 7:39 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hello everyone. Glad you are here — and that I am, too. And new website is clear — can also be enlarged, and so far without covering something else or having it cover the chat.
Jan 27, 7:40 PM
Ruth (Guest): Welcome Kristi. First time here?
Jan 27, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Dawn
Jan 27, 7:40 PM
Carroll (Guest): For me, it seems like interior mortification is inextricably linked to letting go of attachments…
Jan 27, 7:41 PM
VisitationSiste: Good point- sometimes we don’t think we are attached – we think that something is just normal- but try to let it go and then..!
Jan 27, 7:41 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: whatever keeps us apart from God has to go, or lessen in importance. Hi Ruth!
Jan 27, 7:41 PM
Carroll (Guest): … whether it is a particular attachment, or just my attachment to being comfortable…
Jan 27, 7:41 PM
Kristi (Guest): No, Ruth. I was here last week, and previously a couple of times. I get mixed up on the time difference and missed it. I have a reminder notice now… so made it on time
Jan 27, 7:42 PM
Ruth (Guest): Good. Welcome back.
Jan 27, 7:42 PM
Kristi (Guest): Thank you.
Jan 27, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: I am not sure that it is more spiritually mature or developed to be mortified in the heart-though
Jan 27, 7:44 PM
Kristi (Guest): I’m devoted to the Sacred Heart and have dedicated m home.
Jan 27, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: AS the questions indicate perhaps there needs to be a balance between interior and exterior
Jan 27, 7:44 PM
Dawn (Guest): can one practice mortification of the body without that of the heart?
Jan 27, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: Let’s think about that
Jan 27, 7:44 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, someone asked me recently, “Are you attached to your books?” I had to admit that I think I am — a lot of ’em anyway.
Jan 27, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: It is the heart that makes any action truly authentic, right
Jan 27, 7:45 PM
Ruth (Guest): He got a chuckle when I said “I’m a dyslexic bibliophile.”
Jan 27, 7:45 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: i know i was addicted to my books, among other things
Jan 27, 7:46 PM
Ruth (Guest): Borrowing ’em from the library, I always have to renew a few times before I can finish a book. And mostly the local library does not have the books I want.
Jan 27, 7:47 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: i have the same problem. the non fiction section shrinks monthly and there are no spiritual works
Jan 27, 7:47 PM
Dawn (Guest): I pondered this one or that one, then saw them together. mortification of heart would naturally lead to some mortification of the body maybe
Jan 27, 7:49 PM
Ruth (Guest): The ones which don’t have bookcase space may interfere with walking about, e.g. next to the bed, but I don’t think they interfere with my relationship with God. On the contrary. I’ve come to know and love Him more through reading good books — and learned practical skills as well.
Jan 27, 7:49 PM
Dawn (Guest): like…self will mortification of heart may naturally lead to purposeful fasting
Jan 27, 7:49 PM
Kristi (Guest): Of the Heart. Is it letting go of habits, or being silent for a day?
Jan 27, 7:49 PM
Ruth (Guest): So SHOULD mortification come into play — materially — in this regard. I’m not at all sure.
Jan 27, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Jennifer-
Jan 27, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Ruth- mortification can concern books too
Jan 27, 7:51 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi MOTHER and all
Jan 27, 7:51 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Jennifer!
Jan 27, 7:51 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: Hi Jennifer!
Jan 27, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: Krisiti- I think it means letting go- whether of habits or things or emotional attachments- and silence may help to center one to be able to let go
Jan 27, 7:52 PM
Dawn (Guest): do you take a name as a novice or is this later on. I just wondered how we address you
Jan 27, 7:53 PM
Dawn (Guest): Jennifer
Jan 27, 7:53 PM
Jennifer Koo: It is not easy to let go
Jan 27, 7:53 PM
Jennifer Koo: I am not a novice and I will be Jennifer
Jan 27, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: Saint Francis states that the first inspiration God will give us is obedience. How do we see this in the example of Saint Paul?
Jan 27, 7:55 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: at first, Paul thought he was obeying God by being zealous for the Law, but then God showed him he was being zealous for the wrong law and transformed him
Jan 27, 7:55 PM
Dawn (Guest): When Jesus told him what to do he obeyed. like Mary said, do whatever he tells you
Jan 27, 7:57 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes and The Lord told him to go to Ananias or Straight St and he went- even tho he was blinded
Jan 27, 7:57 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you Carol Ann,
Jan 27, 7:58 PM
VisitationSiste: So now that he found Jesus, he did not follow his own willbut began to follow God’s which is another type of mortification
Jan 27, 7:58 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: ??
Jan 27, 7:59 PM
Dawn (Guest): your answer was thoughtful.
Jan 27, 7:59 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: oh, thanks!
Jan 27, 8:00 PM
Jennifer Koo: St Paul obeyed GOD immediately and without reserved
Jan 27, 8:01 PM
Carroll (Guest): To keep the dish from running away with the spoon, in terms of self-centered mortification for mortification’s sake, it helps me to think in terms of working towards buildo
Jan 27, 8:01 PM
Carroll (Guest): building or developing virtue…
Jan 27, 8:01 PM
VisitationSiste: Ah yes virtue- where is that today?
Jan 27, 8:02 PM
VisitationSiste: Obedience I guess can be considered a virtue- tho it is more like a counsel
Jan 27, 8:03 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: obedience is often the most difficult task of all
Jan 27, 8:03 PM
VisitationSiste: Oh yes. and St Francis says: Whosoever says he is inspired, and yet refuses to obey his superiors and follow their counsel, is an impostor.
Jan 27, 8:03 PM
Carroll (Guest): Lacking- in me, at least… fasting has purpose if out of love for God I am
Jan 27, 8:03 PM
Ruth (Guest): Sorry, I lost the chat page for a little while. Probably my own fault — was trying to re-read parts of the selection and questions. Don’t know how to do split screen.
Jan 27, 8:04 PM
Dawn (Guest): you’re back Ruth!
Jan 27, 8:04 PM
Jennifer Koo: I have a little problem with this new format of chat as well
Jan 27, 8:04 PM
VisitationSiste: tell me the problems so I can tell webmaster
Jan 27, 8:06 PM
Jennifer Koo: I have another week of chat coming up, already twice. It’s confusing the first time
Jan 27, 8:06 PM
Carroll (Guest): for example, fasting from sugar in order to take care of the health of my body, which is His temple… or, if I am working to overcome the sin of gluttony…
Jan 27, 8:08 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: that is a mortification because we are denying ourselves something harmful that we want? What if we are denying ourselves something that is inherently good or that we need?
Jan 27, 8:08 PM
Dawn (Guest): # 4 addresses M. Angelica’s obedience to superiors but how did she discern that or following Gods direction?
Jan 27, 8:08 PM
Ruth (Guest): It’s probably, in my case, just that I have too many web pages and instances of Google open at one time. It would be nice, though, to be able to have the selection and questions open on one half of the screen and the chat thread on the other — but not really necessary. If I print out the e-mail from you ahead of time, that would do, but I still don’t have a printer attached to this computer.
Jan 27, 8:08 PM
VisitationSiste: There is obedience, there are inspirations as well and then there is authority-
Jan 27, 8:08 PM
VisitationSiste: Mother Angelica had direct inspirations but I do not know about her spiritual director- does anyone here
Jan 27, 8:08 PM
Carroll (Guest): But it seems like the most important mortifications are he ones that put the needs, or even the preferences, of others’ first…
Jan 27, 8:10 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: i think you are on to something here!
Jan 27, 8:10 PM
Ruth (Guest): I don’t know about Mother Angelica; doesn’t “mother” mean she IS the superior?
Jan 27, 8:10 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes
Jan 27, 8:11 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Carroll- good point
Jan 27, 8:12 PM
VisitationSiste: LOve of God and love of others always comes first and to do that means mortifying oneself
Jan 27, 8:12 PM
Ruth (Guest): And OBEDIENCE — it is one thing to be obedient to God’s law and inspirations, but how does one know about obedience to a “superior?” Shouldn’t, for example, a person be able to assert oneself IF there is abuse involved?
Jan 27, 8:13 PM
VisitationSiste: only if abuse is involved or any other sin
Jan 27, 8:14 PM
VisitationSiste: otherwise the superior represents Christ
Jan 27, 8:14 PM
Ruth (Guest): When I saw that question I thought of Dorothy Day. She had a clear sense of what she must do to take care of the poor . . . and did it — but it was a great embarrassment to the bishops at the time.
Jan 27, 8:14 PM
VisitationSiste: Good example
Jan 27, 8:14 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes
Jan 27, 8:15 PM
VisitationSiste: I think in that situation one keeps to one’s understanding but stays open to dialogue with the Bishop
Jan 27, 8:16 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: but she never directly disobeyed them, did she, even though she went farther than they wanted her to?
Jan 27, 8:16 PM
Ruth (Guest): Sometimes INACTION can be a greater sin even than being mistaken. It angers, confuses, and saddens me that in our present political climate there are no right or even good choices.
Jan 27, 8:17 PM
Carroll (Guest): Obedience is tricky… especially in the “the world” where different authorities give different counsel… involves discernment
Jan 27, 8:17 PM
VisitationSiste: I do not know her life well enough to say
Jan 27, 8:18 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: because there is a difference between hearing a different call from God and being a rebel
Jan 27, 8:18 PM
Jennifer Koo: Rule of St Benedict Chapter 5, regarding obedience1The first step of humility is unhesitating obedience, 2which comes naturally to those who cherish Christ above all. 3Because of the holy service they have professed, or because of dread of hell and for the glory of everlasting life, 4* they carry out the superior’s order as promptly as if the command came from God himself. 5The Lord says of men like this: No sooner did he hear than he obeyed me (Ps 17[ 18]: 45); 6again, he tells teachers: Whoever listens to
Jan 27, 8:18 PM
Ruth (Guest): As a religious the understanding of obedience is so different from as a lay person.
Jan 27, 8:19 PM
Dawn (Guest): umm
Jan 27, 8:20 PM
Dawn (Guest): thinking about that
Jan 27, 8:21 PM
VisitationSiste: It is more direct and of course, vowed
Jan 27, 8:23 PM
Ruth (Guest): In any community right order is necessary. What I found so interesting about the Rule of Benedict is that it was suitable for unruly 14 year old boys who were dropped off at the monastery by their parents — and yet Benedict himself, showed such respect for — LISTENED to — even the youngest member of the community before making any decisions.
Jan 27, 8:24 PM
VisitationSiste: None of this is easy but a good spiritual director can help in discernment of issues re obedience and special inspirations All God’s work includes suffering
Jan 27, 8:25 PM
Ruth (Guest): AND when we are clear that it is God’s work JOY — even if there is also suffering.
Jan 27, 8:26 PM
Ruth (Guest): Even with our Baptism we symbolically “die” — so that new LIFE may be born — life of sonship/daughtership with G_d.
Jan 27, 8:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes- thanks for saying that!!
Jan 27, 8:26 PM
Dawn (Guest): and this is why ….following God is a type of mortification!
Jan 27, 8:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Amen!
Jan 27, 8:27 PM
Jennifer Koo: Sometimes it’s difficult to understand GOD’s will, why and to obey.
Jan 27, 8:27 PM
Kristi (Guest): I agree, Jennifer.
Jan 27, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: Very true- we are happen to follow if we only are convinced it is God’s Will, sometimes
Jan 27, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: I hope you all have a blessed week- I have to leave now- but continue!
Jan 27, 8:29 PM
Dawn (Guest): visiting priest today, older retired experienced. he spoke of desolation and consolation, Ignatus. he said never make decisions or discernments when in a state of desolation.
Jan 27, 8:29 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: when the way is not clear, when there are two choices, it is hard
Jan 27, 8:29 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: Thank you Sister!
Jan 27, 8:30 PM
Dawn (Guest): Thank you Sr Susan, God Bless you
Jan 27, 8:30 PM
Ruth (Guest): I know that Jesus did not perform many miracles in his own hometown because of their lack of faith, but elsewhere I can think of no instance where he did not only will the happiness, wholeness, health of the people, and when he performed a miracle — e.g. a healing — attribute it to the FAITH of the one healed and to give Glory to the Father.
Jan 27, 8:30 PM
Kristi (Guest): Good night, Sister!
Jan 27, 8:30 PM
Jennifer Koo: Goodnight and have a blessed week, MOTHER
Jan 27, 8:30 PM
Ruth (Guest): Unless the grain of wheat die it remains but a grain of wheat , but if it die, it gives new life.
Jan 27, 8:31 PM
Kristi (Guest): Good night, Everyone. God Bless.
Jan 27, 8:31 PM
Ruth (Guest): That, I think, is an instance of “mortification” mentioned — with other words — in the Gospels.
Jan 27, 8:31 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: Good night Kristi
Jan 27, 8:32 PM
Ruth (Guest): Good night Kristi.
Jan 27, 8:32 PM
Dawn (Guest): good insights Ruth
Jan 27, 8:32 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: we have a faith of paradoxes. to die is to live, to suffer is to be virtuous (when done correctly), to give is to receive
Jan 27, 8:34 PM
Dawn (Guest): paradoxes
Jan 27, 8:34 PM
Ruth (Guest): And to be mortified is to rejoice.
Jan 27, 8:34 PM
Ruth (Guest): And to be insulted, and called every vile name for the sake of Jesus, is cause to REJOICE!
Jan 27, 8:34 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: it makes no sense to those who think they control everything
Jan 27, 8:35 PM
Carroll (Guest): Surrender can be SO hard… even to the point of grief… but, when we can hold onto Jesus and Mary in the midst of it, we can begin to develop real virtue… patience, forbearance, love of God and others before ourselves,… and THAT is when suffering can truly become joy- filled!
Jan 27, 8:35 PM
Dawn (Guest): this chat brought the teaching of mortifications clearer to me, I have not thought of things in those terms
Jan 27, 8:35 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: it is! it even happened to me this week (looong story)
Jan 27, 8:36 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: i never really understood mortification either, always thinking of the hair shirt and self flagellation we read about
Jan 27, 8:36 PM
Ruth (Guest): But …?
Jan 27, 8:36 PM
Ruth (Guest):
Jan 27, 8:37 PM
Carroll (Guest): This has been a helpful discussion- thanks everybody. Unfortunately, I need to say goodnight, as well. Have a blessed week!
Jan 27, 8:37 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: Good night Carroll, God bless you!
Jan 27, 8:38 PM
Dawn (Guest): it is sometimes reflecting after the suffering in that brings joy. going thru a period of suffering recently I may cognitively know its good but it did not feel that way at the time
Jan 27, 8:38 PM
Dawn (Guest): goodnight Carroll! thank you
Jan 27, 8:38 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, Good night Carroll. And Carol and IF you want to, perhaps you can share your story in an e-mail or some other post. I have to get up very early tomorrow and I’m a bit sleep-deprived the last couple of days/nights, so I
Jan 27, 8:39 PM
Jennifer Koo: It is nice to be able to be here
Jan 27, 8:39 PM
Ruth (Guest): ‘d better sign off, too. Good night. A blessed week to each of you.
Jan 27, 8:39 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: I should really let you all go. I’m the early bird as it’s only 530 here
Jan 27, 8:39 PM
Jennifer Koo: to listen and to learn
Jan 27, 8:39 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: Sleep well, Ruth’
Jan 27, 8:39 PM
Dawn (Guest): Goodnight all, sleep well. thank you and God bless. Good morning Jennifer!
Jan 27, 8:39 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: and God bless us every one
Jan 27, 8:40 PM
Jennifer Koo: Carol Ann, where are you from
Jan 27, 8:40 PM
Dawn (Guest): Amen
Jan 27, 8:40 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: I am in California
Jan 27, 8:40 PM
Jennifer Koo: No, I am in PA
Jan 27, 8:40 PM
Jennifer Koo: Same as New York’s time
Jan 27, 8:41 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: so i am three hours behind you
Jan 27, 8:41 PM
Jennifer Koo: Bye and goodnighrt
Jan 27, 8:41 PM
Carol Ann Chybowski: Have a good week!
Jan 27, 8:51 PM
Dawn (Guest): Sr Susan, the new chat room is lovely! inviting. thank you and Kevin much.