Why do you suppose suffering and affliction are part of God’s plan? Why didn’t God redeem us in a way that didn’t require this?What does it mean to “please” the Lord? If God is sufficient and perfectly happy in Himself without us, then what do we make of doing things “pleasing” to God? In other words, how can something be pleasing to God?Based on descriptions in this reflection, it seems like we could describe love as foolish. How is it that love is not foolish?St. Francis talks about a submissive peace tha
Feb 23, 1:48 PM
VisitationSiste: that “is not tender or sweet” because it suffers from tribulation. How can one maintain this peace despite difficulties?
Feb 23, 1:49 PM
VisitationSiste: Chat held Sun Feb 24 730pm est
Feb 24, 7:33 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi,Sister!
Feb 24, 7:34 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Sr Susan and Kristi
Feb 24, 7:34 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hello, Carroll!
Feb 24, 7:34 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Ruth!
Feb 24, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Sorry to be late!
Feb 24, 7:35 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hi Sr. Susan, Kristi, Carroll.
Feb 24, 7:35 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi, Ruth!
Feb 24, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: Glad to see you all here!
Feb 24, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: Hope your week was ok
Feb 24, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: We had off from our school but it reopens tomorrow
Feb 24, 7:36 PM
Ruth (Guest): Not a problem, Sister. I am always amazed at how punctual you are — at least when it is possible and expected.
Feb 24, 7:37 PM
Kristi (Guest): We’ve been having a lot of winter! (Minnesota)
Feb 24, 7:37 PM
Ruth (Guest): I spend a good deal of my day trying to “analyze” and figure out a way to get things done in a timely fashion.
Feb 24, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: Welcome viewers!
Feb 24, 7:38 PM
Kristi (Guest): I have an alert on my phone to be here. I didn’t need it today, but I’m glad it works!
Feb 24, 7:39 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hello Sr Susan, Ruth, Kristi, and Carroll!
Feb 24, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Dawn!
Feb 24, 7:40 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hi tech stuff! That usually works against me. Once a friend put a reminder in my phone, so I could — hopefully be on time for an appointment. It pestered me for weeks!
Feb 24, 7:40 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hi Dawn!
Feb 24, 7:40 PM
Carroll (Guest): The couple I am caring for is really struggling. Ginny is in congestive heart failure and her kidneys are not responding to meds… Even with Stage 6 Alzheimers, George is very worried and will hardly leave her side. WE are trying to manage all of this outpatient. Please pray for their family: for wisdom and peace.
Feb 24, 7:40 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi Dawn!
Feb 24, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: First question: Why do you suppose suffering and affliction are part of God’s plan. I challenge this. I don’t think it was part of God’s original plan when he created the first people Adam and Eve but it developed that way after sin
Feb 24, 7:41 PM
Carroll (Guest): (didn’t mean for “we” to be in caps)
Feb 24, 7:41 PM
Ruth (Guest): Carroll, it looks like you are right in the midst of the kinds of issues addressed in today’s reading.
Feb 24, 7:43 PM
Ruth (Guest): Carroll are you a Hospice worker? A home health nurse?
Feb 24, 7:43 PM
Dawn (Guest): Thank you. I agree with your thoughts Sr, God would not plan this. It is the free will and choices made then and still today
Feb 24, 7:43 PM
Ruth (Guest): In part, I’d say.
Feb 24, 7:45 PM
Ruth (Guest): Interesting that the fruit by which Adam and Eve was the fruit of the TREE OF KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.
Feb 24, 7:45 PM
Carroll (Guest): I am more of a witness than the one afflicted in this particular situation, but I am a live-in caregiver and I am also a nurse. Haven’t officially worked as a nurse for several years until this job which started more simply evolved into nursing out of necessity… perhaps an example of God’s mercy in the midst of trial.
Feb 24, 7:47 PM
Ruth (Guest): When we care a lot, we participate in the sufferings of others.
Feb 24, 7:47 PM
Dawn (Guest): Yes, tis’ interesting Ruth….knowledge of good and evil. no purity
Feb 24, 7:47 PM
Ruth (Guest): Interesting that George seems to sense the seriousness of the situation.
Feb 24, 7:48 PM
Dawn (Guest): Blessed are the caregivers…..
Feb 24, 7:48 PM
Kristi (Guest): To rely on God’s love and offer as our love for Him.
Feb 24, 7:49 PM
Carroll (Guest): In any event, I see our suffering as God’s way of allowing humanity to “recover” from the fall.by drawing us more closely to Himself… into Jesus
Feb 24, 7:49 PM
Ruth (Guest): Children at the age of reason come to know the difference. “That’s not fair!” is by seven, less likely to be said about anything that is unpleasant than it is about a situation that is really unjust or a breaking of a promise.
Feb 24, 7:50 PM
Ruth (Guest): the difference between good and evil — at least a little.
Feb 24, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes that is why they can go to confession around 7 years old.
Feb 24, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: Carroll, you are doing a most compassionate service to this family!
Feb 24, 7:51 PM
Ruth (Guest): And that seems to me to be a GOOD thing. The Church though her moral teachings HELPS us to know the difference between good and evil. Not so a significant part of our culture these days!
Feb 24, 7:52 PM
Carroll (Guest): I appreciate everyone’s support- thank you… Kristi, I think you really sum it up by simply focusing on relying on God’s Love!
Feb 24, 7:52 PM
Carroll (Guest): and offerings to Him out of love
Feb 24, 7:53 PM
Ruth (Guest): Church through — not though.
Feb 24, 7:54 PM
Ruth (Guest): Amen, Dawn. Blessed are the caregivers — even if all they often feel is just exhaustion!
Feb 24, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: Why didn’t God redeem us in a way that didn’t require this
Feb 24, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: After the sin, Jesus came and suffered and now wejoin Him in Hislife and suffering when baptized- it was and is an act of pure self giving love
Feb 24, 7:56 PM
Kristi (Guest): To become more virtuous.
Feb 24, 7:57 PM
Ruth (Guest): Perhaps it is because FREE WILL is necessary in order to LOVE. Love is impossible without it. And where free will exists, there is also the possibility of wrong — sinful — choices.
Feb 24, 7:57 PM
Carroll (Guest): Maybe, If we never experienced a little bit of what He sacrificed for us, then we would never be able to comprehend the depths of His Love for us
Feb 24, 7:58 PM
Ruth (Guest): Isn’t it interesting that before the FALL Adam and Eve walked with God in the cool of the evening; after the FALL, however, they HID when God came near.
Feb 24, 7:58 PM
VisitationSiste: Suffering proves love like nothing else does or can
Feb 24, 7:59 PM
Dawn (Guest): Sacrificial love
Feb 24, 8:00 PM
Dawn (Guest): They hid …Satan likes to hide
Feb 24, 8:01 PM
Carroll (Guest): Good point.
Feb 24, 8:01 PM
Ruth (Guest): Didn’t require Jesus — or God himself — to suffer, Sister? Is that what you are asking? Or didn’t require us to be “cast” from the Garden of Eden and to suffer and die as we do . . . ?
Feb 24, 8:02 PM
Ruth (Guest): Maybe JOY proves love — REAL joy, not just pleasure.
Feb 24, 8:02 PM
VisitationSiste: we can question the word require I guess-
Feb 24, 8:02 PM
VisitationSiste: That too Ruth- and joy in suffering, according to some saints
Feb 24, 8:05 PM
Ruth (Guest): But because He made us into bodily beings, we EXPERIENCE love through our bodies, through our senses. I don’t know any place in Scripture where Jesus says: “Suffer!” He HEALS most of those who come to him or are brought to him, in suffering. He even healed the Roman’s daughter from afar because the soldier expressed his trust in Jesus.
Feb 24, 8:05 PM
VisitationSiste: No, not before He was crucified- but after, we are baptized into His complete life
Feb 24, 8:06 PM
Carroll (Guest): Maybe “suffering” is the tricky word… The modern mental health field and pain management specialty often work to eliminate any experience of “suffering,” even in the midst of pain… as though suffering implies an element of wrongful victimization, self-pity, or depression.
Feb 24, 8:07 PM
VisitationSiste: Good insight
Feb 24, 8:08 PM
Ruth (Guest): Thinking about what you say Carroll. The whole section is deep, deep, deep.
Feb 24, 8:08 PM
Carroll (Guest): In the “world,” speaking of joyful suffering or embracing suffering is easily confused with masochism, as mentioned a couple of weeks ago.
Feb 24, 8:08 PM
VisitationSiste: What about pleasing the Lord? Can we add to His happiness? It gets rather theological – but again, most saints did speak of pleasing the Lord
Feb 24, 8:08 PM
Kristi (Guest): It is, Ruth. I had to read it twice.
Feb 24, 8:09 PM
Ruth (Guest): What I find most difficult, concretely, in each situation, is know when to “fight” and when to “resign.”
Feb 24, 8:09 PM
Ruth (Guest): So true, Carroll.
Feb 24, 8:11 PM
Ruth (Guest): We are meant to be co-creators with THE Creator. But we must not mess with his creation — try to use it differently from the way God meant it to be.
Feb 24, 8:12 PM
Carroll (Guest): Maybe we fight with a spirit of surrender… different from resignation
Feb 24, 8:13 PM
VisitationSiste: true
Feb 24, 8:13 PM
Ruth (Guest): The question, Sister, is an apt one. I have a book entitled “Consoling the Heart of Jesus.” I asked pretty much the same question in relation to that title.
Feb 24, 8:15 PM
Carroll (Guest): Knowing what a perfect Father He is, surely He will be happiest when all of His children are truly at peace and joyful… which can only happen when all is rightly ordered…
Feb 24, 8:16 PM
VisitationSiste: Of course, in His human nature, Jesus looked for consolation in the Garden of Gethsemanee
Feb 24, 8:17 PM
Carroll (Guest): and as part of the mystical body of Christ, anything pleasing to God we can do affects all those who aren’t yet able… it brings us all closer to Him.
Feb 24, 8:18 PM
VisitationSiste: I think you mentioned peace earlier Carroll. Peace amid tribulations I truly believe is a gift of grace
Feb 24, 8:19 PM
Carroll (Guest): Amen!
Feb 24, 8:19 PM
VisitationSiste: At one time in my life I would not have known that experience but now I can say He has granted it at least at times
Feb 24, 8:21 PM
Carroll (Guest): Sr. Margaret Mary used to often say, “keep your heart at peace.” Ever Mass, when Jesus gives us His peace, I pray I will remember and hold it in the cloister of my heart until I see Him again.
Feb 24, 8:21 PM
Carroll (Guest): Every
Feb 24, 8:21 PM
Dawn (Guest): So, if we are in the midst of tribulations this is a very good thing to pray for, peace amid tribulations
Feb 24, 8:22 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes !!
Feb 24, 8:22 PM
Ruth (Guest): If we think of God as a loving Parent, it becomes clear that we should OBEY, do what the parent wishes. With HUMANS that would increase the happiness of the parent — though the LOVE would be a constant. And God, as the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, BECAME a human, experienced what we experience. So in seems that at least through Jesus — with the help of the Holy Spirit and with the intercessions of Jesus’s Mom, we CAN increase the happiness of God/father/Lord. We are called to enter into the
Feb 24, 8:23 PM
Ruth (Guest): relationship with God — spousal relationship — a mutual TOTAL GIVING of SELF.
Feb 24, 8:25 PM
Ruth (Guest): This is true — and I think I am re-working or re-wording — St. Pope JPII whatever our state in life, whatever our more specific vocation.
Feb 24, 8:25 PM
Ruth (Guest): There is both sacrifice and joy in this.
Feb 24, 8:26 PM
Carroll (Guest): That is beautiful, Ruth
Feb 24, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: Beautiful way to end a session! Anyway I need to go- but stay on! Blessings to all!
Feb 24, 8:28 PM
Carroll (Guest): Thank you, Sister- Good night.
Feb 24, 8:28 PM
Kristi (Guest): Good night, Sister, and God Bless
Feb 24, 8:29 PM
Ruth (Guest): Thank you Carroll. But in effect I am only restating the first few questions and answers of Baltimore Catechism No. 1 and No.2.
Feb 24, 8:29 PM
Kristi (Guest): I’ve enjoyed reading your responses, Ladies! I must go as well. God bless, Everyone!
Feb 24, 8:30 PM
Carroll (Guest): Ahhh… I have heard you mention the Baltimore Catechism, but have never read it.
Feb 24, 8:30 PM
Carroll (Guest): Thanks Kristi. Have a blessed week!
Feb 24, 8:31 PM
Dawn (Guest): Thank you, good night Sr
Feb 24, 8:31 PM
Ruth (Guest): So, since God is the initiator, we — the whole world, the Church, each individual including men, are in a feminine role in relationship to God. And does not the good wife make her Husband happy!?
Feb 24, 8:32 PM
Carroll (Guest): Good point, Ruth!
Feb 24, 8:33 PM
Carroll (Guest): Wish I could stay, but really should get back to duties here… God Love and Bless you both every minute of every day this week!
Feb 24, 8:34 PM
Dawn (Guest): Goodnight, Carroll. Blessings!
Feb 24, 8:35 PM
Dawn (Guest): Beautiful thoughts you shared Ruth, or from the Baltimore. I have never read it but I hear it is a worthy read
Feb 24, 8:36 PM
Dawn (Guest): Thank you all, goodnight and God bless you
Feb 24, 8:38 PM
Ruth (Guest): Carroll, you must be considerably younger than I am. As a child attending Confraternity of Christian Doctrine once per week for an hour we were required to MEMORIZE the questions and answers. A lot of people have bad things to say about that experience. No understanding required. BUT when it became necessary, as an adult, to cope with extreme situations — the meaning of life when nothing but pain and seemingly “no Future” were there, the answers came — THANKS BE TO GOD! — bubbling to the surface.
Feb 24, 8:41 PM
Ruth (Guest): Who made me? God made me? Why did God make me? He made me to show forth his goodness and to share his everlasting happiness in heaven? What must I do to gain the happiness of heaven? To gain the happiness of heaven I must know, love, and serve God . . .
Feb 24, 8:46 PM
Ruth (Guest): I had no idea what the words meant back then. Now I have a bit more understanding, and I am so grateful!