Let’s start by discussing the distinction between indifference and resignation (as discussed by Saint Francis). What are these two things? In our modern use of the word, indifference is often seen as a negative thing. Why in this instance of following God’s will is it seen as a positive thing? In the past Saint Francis has talked about certain ways of living the spiritual life that are not meant for everyone (such as a vowed life of living the evangelical counsels). Do you suppose this practice of
indifference falls into the same category? In this book, Saint Francis talks a lot about these very extreme ascetical ways of living that seem almost superhuman and even impossible. How can one avoid feeling overwhelmed at the prospect of pursuing these heroic avenues of holiness? Do you suppose this practice of indifference falls into the same category? In this book, Saint Francis talks a lot about these very extreme ascetical ways of living that seem almost su
Feb 28, 9:40 AM
VisitationSiste: Chat Sun Mar 3 at 730p est
Mar 3, 7:25 PM
3, 7:26 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi- She is still in the hospital, quite ill… please thank everyone for their prayers
Mar 3, 7:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes certainly
Mar 3, 7:26 PM
Carroll (Guest): She made it through the necessary procedure to start dialysis and has had 2 treatments so far.
Mar 3, 7:27 PM
VisitationSiste: Somewhat encouraging- are you with her family-
Mar 3, 7:28 PM
Carroll (Guest): Most importantly,Fr. Ronnie was able to visit and she received the Sacraments… I know that she is offering her suffering on behalf of her family… longs for all of her children and grandchildren to be re-united in the Church.
Mar 3, 7:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Beautiful!!
Mar 3, 7:30 PM
Carroll (Guest): I am with her husband, George, who has Alzheimers… he is very active right now, so I may not be able to be on chat throughout the hour…
Mar 3, 7:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Very understandable- glad you are here for however long-
Mar 3, 7:31 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Carol Ann
Mar 3, 7:31 PM
VisitationSiste: and Alice!
Mar 3, 7:31 PM
Alice (Guest): Hi Sister.
Mar 3, 7:32 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Sr. Susan Marie! How are you?
Mar 3, 7:32 PM
Carroll (Guest): I must admit, I am praying for the grace to develop indifference, but I am actually very grateful to have a peaceful heart with resignation to God’s Will tonight.
Mar 3, 7:32 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Carroll, I am sorry to hear things are still rough
Mar 3, 7:32 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Alice!
Mar 3, 7:32 PM
Alice (Guest): Hi Carol Ann.
Mar 3, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: I think indifference is a spiritual quality many of us need to strive for but don’t start out having it
Mar 3, 7:33 PM
Carol Ann: Is indifference the same thing as detachment?
Mar 3, 7:34 PM
Carroll (Guest): Thank you, Carol Ann- God knows what He is up to- healing happens on many different levels in times of crisis.
Mar 3, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: That’s a great question- there is a relationship certainly but not exactly the same
Mar 3, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: Pretty close- some might define it as the same
Mar 3, 7:35 PM
Carroll (Guest): How are they different?
Mar 3, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: I am trying to think this through myself!!
Mar 3, 7:36 PM
Carroll (Guest): … maybe detachment is a necessary part of indifference, but indifference implies true trust and joyful surrender to God’s Will?
Mar 3, 7:36 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Jennifer, Hi Ruth!
Mar 3, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: Both would demand that we are for God’s Will above all things
Mar 3, 7:36 PM
Carroll (Guest): joyful acceptance of God’s Will
Mar 3, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: Jennifer- just thinking about you today!
Mar 3, 7:37 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi Carol Ann.
Mar 3, 7:37 PM
Jennifer Koo: Yes, I will email you
Mar 3, 7:38 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi all.
Mar 3, 7:38 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hi all.
Mar 3, 7:39 PM
Ruth (Guest): Just read through what you’ve been discussing so far.
Mar 3, 7:39 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Ruth!
Mar 3, 7:40 PM
Carol Ann: I think most people find indifference to be negative because it implies we do not care. With detachment we care, but we leave the determination to God
Mar 3, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: For the moment, let’s keep indifference and detaachment on the same plane and see where resignation fits in
Mar 3, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: Carol Anne- good distinction!!
Mar 3, 7:43 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Dawn! Is that you Brian?
Mar 3, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: Resignation is agood first step because we are not rebelling but yet it does not imply a heart filled with self-giving love tothe full
Mar 3, 7:43 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hello everyone! full house tonight , wonderful. God Bless you and this chat tonight
Mar 3, 7:44 PM
Carol Ann: Like submission vs surrender?
Mar 3, 7:44 PM
Ruth (Guest): I just remembered a funny story my father told about indifference, at least the way he and his father understood it. It seems that his father would often go to a movie on Saturday evenings, and he’d ask his son, “Would you like to come along?” My Dad, at the time a young child, would respond something like:
Mar 3, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes
Mar 3, 7:46 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Hi Sister Susan , Dawn , Ruth , Carroll, Carol Ann , Jennifer, and Alice !!! God Bless You !!! Brian
Mar 3, 7:46 PM
Ruth (Guest): “I don’t care.” His father would then say, “Get your coat” and take him along. One day when the little boy’s response was the same as usual his father just replied “Fine. I’ll see you later. Bye.”
Mar 3, 7:46 PM
Alice (Guest): With resignation being the first step, how does a person move from resignation to indifference?
Mar 3, 7:47 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi, Brian
Mar 3, 7:47 PM
Ruth (Guest): After that he learned to express his preferences and not just act AS IF he was indifferent.
Mar 3, 7:47 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Brian
Mar 3, 7:48 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hi Dawn. Hi Brian.
Mar 3, 7:48 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Ruth, a good example of if we simply try on our own to be or act indifferent
Mar 3, 7:48 PM
VisitationSiste: With much prayer Alice. It is not an easy journey to that disposition I do not think
Mar 3, 7:49 PM
Ruth (Guest): I’ve been thinking of your men, Brian and praying for them. And Dawn, of you and your family and the people of Paradise.
Mar 3, 7:49 PM
Carol Ann: I imagine discerning which of our plans and desires comes from God plays a huge role as well
Mar 3, 7:49 PM
Dawn (Guest): Thank you Ruth.
Mar 3, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: A key means to attaining Holy Indifference is a constant and dynamic prayer life, which leads to a total confidence in God, which is translated and manifested in a total willingness to give one’s whole self to God as a sacrifice, offering and oblation.
Mar 3, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: Of course Jesus is our Way, Truth and Life and best example. In the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus battled with this Holy Indifference in His human nature and conquered with these words of total and absolute Holy Indifference— conformity to the will of the Heavenly Father. “Father if it is possible, remove this chalice from me; however, not my will but yours be done.”
Mar 3, 7:51 PM
Ruth (Guest): And Carol Ann — of all the challenges in your area in S. California. Glad the mud slides were not quite as bad this time, but the people who lost their homes and even more, their relatives will keep on needing healing for a long time to come.
Mar 3, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: Our Lady’s “Fiat” (total and willing consent to God) motivate all of us to strive to understand, pray over and embrace “Holy Indifference” in our lives. “Behold I am the handmaid of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your will.” (Lk. 1: 38)
Mar 3, 7:52 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Thanks Ruth !!! We had many new volunteers come to meeting yesterday . 1st Formation Meeting for June Kairos . Mini-retreat next Fri-Sat in Prison . Talks will be on Love . I will be doing talk on Love does not envy !
Mar 3, 7:52 PM
VisitationSiste: Is indifference for everyone?
Mar 3, 7:52 PM
Carol Ann: We have another three storms coming in this week, one of them a 5 incher. The last round it even snowed at sea level!
Mar 3, 7:53 PM
Alice (Guest): I think indifference is meant for everyone, but not everyone will achieve it, much like St. John of the Cross speaks of infused prayer and high contemplation is meant for everyone but few achieve it.
Mar 3, 7:53 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Many prayers for you Carol Ann !!!
Mar 3, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: True Alice!
Mar 3, 7:55 PM
Dawn (Guest): Holy indifference can be something to strive for, remembering God calls each of us along our own paths
Mar 3, 7:55 PM
Carol Ann: We should all be learning to surrender our will to,His, because not all of our desires aare good for us and we cannot always foresee consequences
Mar 3, 7:55 PM
Ruth (Guest): I wish there were words in the English language that say more clearly what SFdS means — or that I were more fluent in French. When I took Formation for Ministry 12 years ago, there was a woman in our class whose first language was French. She had The Catechism of the Catholic Church in French, and would sometimes point out how much clearer the French was.
Mar 3, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: Trying not to be overwhelmed as we strive for holiness takes a calm heart
Mar 3, 7:58 PM
Dawn (Guest): and perhaps trust, that God always knows where we are
Mar 3, 7:58 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): In sermon this morning those who anger us or really get under our skin are used by God to be our Sanctifiers . God helps us to grow through these relationships that can be most difficult . Our assignment to be perhaps able to gradually grow a relationship through a level of indifference and true love for our enemy !
Mar 3, 7:59 PM
Ruth (Guest): How can we be co-creators with God if we don’t use our own sense — informed by Faith, the teachings of the Catholic Church, prayer and REASON, observation, science, etc. — as to what we should be working on.
Mar 3, 7:59 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Make a Friend , be a Friend , introduce that Friend to Christ !!!
Mar 3, 8:00 PM
Dawn (Guest): Today I was thanking those who help to sanctify me, perhaps they are unaware they are
Mar 3, 8:01 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Soo much condemnation these days in the Church ! We must Love God and everyone ! No option !
Mar 3, 8:01 PM
Dawn (Guest): Amen Brian!
Mar 3, 8:02 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Soo Special Dawn to remember those who have been there for us !!!
Mar 3, 8:03 PM
Carroll (Guest): Brian- I really like the connection you draw between indifference and growing in relationship with others- thank you for that.
Mar 3, 8:04 PM
Dawn (Guest): Yes
Mar 3, 8:04 PM
Ruth (Guest): Brian, how I wish I were better at re-introducing my friend Miriam to Christ. She went all through Catholic Schools, and now is a devoted Orthodox Jew — and somehow there seems to be a high wall around that one important topic.
Mar 3, 8:05 PM
Carol Ann: I always seem to be looking at inner transformation as a solo job. I wonder if that too is done in interrelationships
Mar 3, 8:05 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Your Friendship Ruth is Soo important !!! She sees Christ in You !!! She knows you belong to Him !!!
Mar 3, 8:07 PM
VisitationSiste: In community it happens for sure Carol Ann
Mar 3, 8:09 PM
Carroll (Guest): Carol Ann- The times I have actually experienced the most significant inner transformation definitely seem to be the times when I was more focused on others than on myself… as though I got “out of the way” so the Holy Spirit could work on the deepest parts of me…
Mar 3, 8:09 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Community is soo important in our Sanctification and in order to live in community we must have a level of indifference in order to grow relationships we people from Soo many backgrounds . St Paul really loved soo many in soo many very different communities . Once he knew them then he was able to call them out on crazy things they were doing !!!
Mar 3, 8:10 PM
Dawn (Guest):
Mar 3, 8:10 PM
Carol Ann: Yes–we are always trying to get outvof His way, but if we are looking inward, watching Him, how do we serve Him?
Mar 3, 8:12 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Always being available to God to serve ! Yes be yes and no be no ! Allowing God to show us the Way !!!
Mar 3, 8:12 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Kristi
Mar 3, 8:13 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Hi Kristi ! God Bless You ! Brian
Mar 3, 8:13 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi Sister, and Brian!
Mar 3, 8:13 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Kristi
Mar 3, 8:13 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Kristi
Mar 3, 8:13 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi Everyone! I am trying to catch up with all what’s been said!
Mar 3, 8:13 PM
Alice (Guest): Hello Kristi.
Mar 3, 8:14 PM
Ruth (Guest): I think it is Carol Ann. I was just going to ask all of you to pray that I have both a better understanding and a better LIVING of this indifference, resignation,
Mar 3, 8:15 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Envy can be a Huge Obstacle to Serving God !!!
Mar 3, 8:15 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hi Kristi. Looks like Jennifer had to go. . .
Mar 3, 8:16 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes
Mar 3, 8:16 PM
Carroll (Guest): Be assured of our prayers, Ruth- Let’s pray for each other daily!
Mar 3, 8:16 PM
VisitationSiste: Always focusing on the fact that God knows BEST for us helps
Mar 3, 8:17 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Amen Sister Susan !!!
Mar 3, 8:17 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, because this new discovery is going to be hard to implement
Mar 3, 8:17 PM
Dawn (Guest): Last night on Dr Ray ewtn, his guest was Jessie Romaro. stong Catholic evangelist , a former police officer, and he told amazing story of working with prisoners. I think his program would be on ewtn multimedia to watch. I thought of you Brian
Mar 3, 8:18 PM
Dawn (Guest): In my prayers Ruth! and for all in our group
Mar 3, 8:20 PM
Ruth (Guest): Somehow I am stuck on the PASSIVITY that it seems to me to be ENTAILED in the YES to God expressed by the words and even some of the examples of “Holy Indifference.”
Mar 3, 8:20 PM
Carroll (Guest): Brian- seems like envy is the ultimate outcome of a LACK of indifference… if we truly acquiesce to and fully accept God’s Will in our lives, then envy can’t exist… so love will grow.
Mar 3, 8:20 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Thanks Dawn I will have to look for that interview . Recent Sermon during daily Mass on Ewtn the Priest described Kairos one of men who works at Ewtn for years has volunteered with Kairos for years and described transformation he has seen with many of the Men in Prison !
Mar 3, 8:21 PM
VisitationSiste: Do you see passivity as totally negative Ruth
Mar 3, 8:21 PM
Dawn (Guest): Im thinking of the wedding at Cana, how Mary appeared to have some indifference then instructed the others…do whatever he tells you
Mar 3, 8:22 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Soo True Carroll !!!
Mar 3, 8:22 PM
Carol Ann: That’s interesting Ruth, because those who are most fully surrendered and indifferent are not the least bit passive. We have a life of paradoxes
Mar 3, 8:23 PM
Dawn (Guest): I will look for it
Mar 3, 8:24 PM
VisitationSiste: There are times of passivity that are really receptivity which is not truly passive
Mar 3, 8:25 PM
Ruth (Guest): I see JESUS in that story as the one basically saying “Not me; not now, not yet.” It is only when His Mom, more concerned about the wedding couple being embarrassed by running out of wine than Jesus was, that Jesus recognizes that it is time to ACT.
Mar 3, 8:26 PM
Alice (Guest): Is docility linked to indifference?
Mar 3, 8:27 PM
Ruth (Guest): That, I can appreciate, Sr. Susan. We — like HE — NEED times to pray, reflect, discern. Otherwise “business” can be a real waste of time as far as building up the Kingdom of God is concerned.
Mar 3, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: docility allows for receptivity
Mar 3, 8:28 PM
Alice (Guest): Ah! Thank you Sister.
Mar 3, 8:28 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): When the Men in Prison put aside their own agenda and accept an invitation from another inmate usually or Chaplain to participate in Kairos . They have opened the Door to God in the slightest way !!! And God Blasts them with His Love Through a Loving Community the Kairos Community !!!
Mar 3, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: This week starts the holy season of Lent with Ash Wed and the preparatory days. Let us hold each other in prayer very specially!
Mar 3, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Here is a preview of a Lent with St Francis de Sales: https://books.google.com/books?id=auaM5A3ll3sC&printsec=frontcover&dq=lent+with+St+Francis+de+Sales&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2-taCq-fgAhVuhOAKHZt4AHMQ6AEILzAB#v=onepage&q=lent%20with%20St%20Francis%20de%20Sales&f=false
Mar 3, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Many blessings to each of you!!
Mar 3, 8:30 PM
Alice (Guest): Thank you for the link!
Mar 3, 8:30 PM
Dawn (Guest): Thank you Sr!
Mar 3, 8:30 PM
Carol Ann: Thank you Sister and many blessings to you too!
Mar 3, 8:30 PM
Ruth (Guest): Good point Carol Ann — but I wish I could “see” it, practically speaking. Ah ha! I think I’ve seen that powerfully in my former Pastor, now assigned to St. Peter’s in Massena.
Mar 3, 8:31 PM
Kristi (Guest): Thank you, Sister! Have a Blessed week!
Mar 3, 8:32 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Please Pray for my wife Janet !!! She has been having some memory problems and some speech problems at times . Going for Catscan tommorow to rule out anything major . She has done well soo far with early testing !!!
Mar 3, 8:33 PM
Carol Ann: I will pray Brian!
Mar 3, 8:33 PM
Dawn (Guest): Yes, Brian, my prayers for Janet, and you
Mar 3, 8:33 PM
Kristi (Guest): I will pray as well.
Mar 3, 8:34 PM
Guest9363 (Guest): Thank You All Soo Much !!! Have a Blessed Week !!! God Bless You All !!!
Mar 3, 8:34 PM
Ruth (Guest): Thanks for the link, Sister. I see that a good “sample” of the book can be read on line.
Mar 3, 8:34 PM
Carol Ann: We will be praying for Kairos too
Mar 3, 8:35 PM
Kristi (Guest): God Bless, have a good week, Everyone!
Mar 3, 8:35 PM
Carol Ann: May God bless us every one
Mar 3, 8:35 PM
Ruth (Guest): God bless each of you. I thank and praise him that we can get some help from one another on this journey.
Mar 3, 8:36 PM
Carol Ann: Amen!
Mar 3, 8:36 PM
Dawn (Guest): Our chat group is truly a blessing, a gift
Mar 3, 8:37 PM
Carol Ann: A way to explore where discernment is taking us all
Mar 3, 8:37 PM
Carroll (Guest): Yes! Love and prayers to all- good night!
Mar 3, 8:37 PM
Carol Ann: Good night Carroll
Mar 3, 8:37 PM
Dawn (Guest): Good night
Mar 3, 8:38 PM
Carol Ann: Good night Dawn. I will pray you all stay safe in the coming storm
Mar 3, 8:40 PM
Dawn (Guest): I am going to make , for specific prayers, write on a large piece of frame matting. we have gotten approx 10 ft total snow fall! you say there is more? ohm’\ygosh!.
Mar 3, 8:40 PM
Ruth (Guest): Oh, my! Brian. Good that she’s going to get the scan and has had testing. My prayers that she/all of you/ stay calm and get whatever help is needed. It MAY be that she needs YOU there more than you’ve been able to be with some much work for the Kairos ministry.
Mar 3, 8:41 PM
Dawn (Guest): Good night everyone, God bless and be with us.
Mar 3, 8:41 PM
Carol Ann: Dawn, yes, more rain this week!
Mar 3, 8:44 PM
Dawn (Guest): best advice Ruth, thank you
Mar 3, 8:44 PM
Ruth (Guest): Good night. Yes, here, too, it looks like we’ve had another 6-8 inches overnight. But it was light fluffy stuff on top of the packed down and plowed snow. It was easy to brush off the car; no solid ice. The main roads were clear today.
Mar 3, 8:45 PM
Carol Ann: That’s lucky. I’m off too for evening prayer and a look at the emergency prep alert that just came through. Good night!
Mar 3, 8:47 PM
Ruth (Guest): Wow! Lots of opportunities to practice “Holy Indifference” in ACTION. All the best! Prayerful good wishes. Goodnight.