How does practicing indifference “show ourselves as true servants of God?” “[T]he will of God was more recognized in sufferings than in the actions of virtues.” Why is this the case? Is one more noble than the other? St. Francis says that the “supreme portion” of Christ’s soul “did sovereignly enjoy eternal glory, yet love hindered this glory from spreading its delicious influence into the feelings, or the imagination, or the inferior reason….” If we are to become another Christ, how does this a
Mar 9, 1:32 PM
Sister Susan
Marie (Moderator): how does this affect our approach to suffering?
Do you have an experience of seeing God more clearly in your suffering and
tribulation?
Why would God allow, and even will, suffering? How does it benefit man?
Mar 9, 1:33 PM
VisitationSiste: Sun Mar 10 730 pm est chat
Mar 10, 7:22 PM
VisitationSiste: Welcome Chrissie
Mar 10, 7:25 PM
VisitationSiste: and viewers!
Mar 10, 7:26 PM
Carroll (Guest): Good evening Sr, Chrissie, and viewer
Mar 10, 7:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Carroll!
Mar 10, 7:27 PM
VisitationSiste: This week continues last weeks theme to some extent
Mar 10, 7:28 PM
Carroll (Guest): George is very confused tonight, so I will likely be “in” and “out” again. Ginny has been transferred to a post-acute rehab facility- very weak, but “fighting” and hopeful. Thank you for your prayers!
Mar 10, 7:28 PM
Chrissie Capron: Thank you, Hello.
Mar 10, 7:28 PM
VisitationSiste: It might be good to share what we would call a true servant of God, first. Ok- and we continue our prayers!
Mar 10, 7:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Thanks for joining us Chrissie. I will re post the firsy question too
Mar 10, 7:29 PM
VisitationSiste: How does practicing indifference “show ourselves as true servants of God?
Mar 10, 7:31 PM
VisitationSiste: what is a true servant actually?
Mar 10, 7:33 PM
VisitationSiste: Great charity helps to define a servant I think
Mar 10, 7:33 PM
VisitationSiste: Thinking along these lines, indifference might play a part in that a charitable person is indifferent to their own needs while serving another
Mar 10, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Ruth!
Mar 10, 7:35 PM
Carroll (Guest): a true servant- one who demonstrates love of God instead of only giving “lip service” … perhaps, one who genuinely desires to surrender his/her own will and embrace God’s Will, trusting in the plans of Divine Providence
Mar 10, 7:35 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hello Sr. , Carroll, and welcome Chrissie!
Mar 10, 7:35 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Ruth!
Mar 10, 7:36 PM
Chrissie Capron: Hi Ruth, Sr. Susan, and Carroll
Mar 10, 7:36 PM
Ruth (Guest): Just gonna check e-mail quickly. Was responding to one from Miriam when a pop up told me that Dawn was writing.
Mar 10, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: Good definition Carroll- and we know that persons whose causes are before the congregation for saints are first called servants of God
Mar 10, 7:39 PM
Chrissie Capron: Perhaps, “practicing indifference can help show ourselves as a true servant of God” when one is not set on their own plan, agenda, but instead open to the Will of God… especially when it is unpleasant and uncomfortable.
Mar 10, 7:39 PM
Chrissie Capron: and then desiring this
Mar 10, 7:39 PM
Chrissie Capron: out of love
Mar 10, 7:39 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Everyone!
Mar 10, 7:39 PM
Chrissie Capron: Hi Carol Ann!
Mar 10, 7:39 PM
VisitationSiste: Good point Chrissie. Getting away from our agendas
Mar 10, 7:39 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Carol Anne!
Mar 10, 7:40 PM
Chrissie Capron: including indifference towards suffering- if that is the Will of God for you, then to embrace it. which can be hard in our human bodies to embrace with indifference
Mar 10, 7:40 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Chrissie, is this your first visit?
Mar 10, 7:41 PM
Chrissie Capron: Yes, though it’s been something I had hoped to join previously, .. I am happy to be able to join you this evening.
Mar 10, 7:41 PM
Chrissie Capron: and you?
Mar 10, 7:42 PM
Carol Ann: We have a lot of fun and are glad who are here. I think I started somewhere around 2013. Do you remember Sister?
Mar 10, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: I started the website in 2011 but not sure about the chat- probably around 2013
Mar 10, 7:43 PM
Chrissie Capron: Thank you. for allowing me to join you. It is a gift and I am grateful.
Mar 10, 7:44 PM
Ruth (Guest): Sorry for the delay.
Another member of the Board of Directors of Our Lady of the Adirondacks House
of Prayer was also reaching out. Dawn writes: Hi Ruth
having trouble getting on computer for chat tonight
please let Sr Susan know and blessings to you and everyone. thank you, hope
email or talk with you soon. God bless Dawn
Mar 10, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: welcome Michelle and Kristi
Mar 10, 7:46 PM
Michelle Pasko Olivier: Thank you, glad to be part of the chat room
Mar 10, 7:46 PM
VisitationSiste: First time also? WElcome!
Mar 10, 7:46 PM
VisitationSiste: [T]he will of God was more recognized in sufferings than in the actions of virtues.” Why is this the case?
Mar 10, 7:46 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Michelle! Hi Kristi!
Mar 10, 7:47 PM
Carol Ann: Sufferings are a paradox. God did not create suffering but uses it for great good if we unite ours to His
Mar 10, 7:47 PM
Michelle Pasko Olivier: I was here about two years ago. Just returning.
Mar 10, 7:47 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi, Sister Susan and Carol Ann!
Mar 10, 7:48 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hello Everyone!
Mar 10, 7:48 PM
VisitationSiste: and Guest 5507!
Mar 10, 7:49 PM
VisitationSiste: I think virtues truly show God’s Presence
Mar 10, 7:49 PM
VisitationSiste: They can be as difficult to enact as sufferings are to endure
Mar 10, 7:50 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): Hi Sister Susan , Carol Ann , Carol , Kristi , Michelle , and Ruth ! God Bless You ! Brian
Mar 10, 7:50 PM
Ruth (Guest): Glad to see so many signing in tonight. Hi Carol Ann, Kristi, “Guest” (Brian?) and Viewer.
Mar 10, 7:50 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Brian!
Mar 10, 7:50 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi Brian!
Mar 10, 7:51 PM
Ruth (Guest): Oh, yes, and Michelle! Welcome!
Mar 10, 7:51 PM
Michelle Pasko Olivier: Thank you
Mar 10, 7:51 PM
Kristi (Guest): I see many new names, Welcome!
Mar 10, 7:52 PM
Ruth (Guest): Back to “Indifference” that does not mean what we ordinarily mean by the word. Not the way St Francis de Sales uses the word here, anyway.
Mar 10, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: sHOULD WE REDEFINE IT?
Mar 10, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: It does not mean not caring
Mar 10, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: but being open either way to whatever God wants
Mar 10, 7:55 PM
Carol Ann: If we are not indifferent, we can let something come between us and God. Even if that is a goid thing, if we care more about it than our relationship with God, then it becomes an idol
Mar 10, 7:56 PM
Ruth (Guest): Very good, Carol Ann.
Mar 10, 7:56 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): Amen Carol Ann !!!
Mar 10, 7:57 PM
Ruth (Guest): I was thinking something like that. And what you said Sister Susan Marie.
Mar 10, 7:58 PM
VisitationSiste: But now we go back to suffering vs virtue. How can these 2 even be compared
Mar 10, 7:59 PM
Carroll (Guest): So, as I understand it, indifference is the perfect disposition of having absolutely no desire of my own, but only desiring the Will of God; whereas, resignation is having my own desire but choosing not to act on it or consent to it because I am surrendering to God’s Will instead.
Mar 10, 7:59 PM
Ruth (Guest): It’s considering everything to be far less important than doing the will of God.
Mar 10, 8:00 PM
Ruth (Guest): Of course, you have to be able to accurately discern God’s will to “apply” indifference to life’s situations.
Mar 10, 8:00 PM
Carol Ann: Now there’s the heart of the matter!
Mar 10, 8:01 PM
Ruth (Guest): And, I think, realize that our own “vision” may be like that of an earthworm in comparison to his LOVING plans for us and for the people we love.
Mar 10, 8:02 PM
Carroll (Guest): Amen, Ruth!
Mar 10, 8:02 PM
Ruth (Guest): We cannot love them more perfectly than HE does.
Mar 10, 8:02 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes!
Mar 10, 8:03 PM
Ruth (Guest): And God’s ways are mysterious.
Mar 10, 8:03 PM
VisitationSiste: So is suffering more noble than virtue?
Mar 10, 8:04 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): God opposes the Proud and gives grace to the humble ! Friendship with the world is enmity with God ! Been reading James Chapter 4
Mar 10, 8:04 PM
Ruth (Guest): No suffering with patience, with love, IS virtuos.
Mar 10, 8:04 PM
Carol Ann: Suffering teaches us virtue?
Mar 10, 8:05 PM
Ruth (Guest): But so is celebrating with love.
Mar 10, 8:05 PM
Carroll (Guest): God’s Will being “recognized” more in sufferings than in virtue: maybe one is not more noble than the other, but part of our human response to lived experiences is to “pay more attention” or be more acutely aware in the midst of suffering; thus, we recognize God’s Will more during those times?
Mar 10, 8:06 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): Suffering gives us an opportunity to Serve others who are going through same suffering later on !!! It equips us to serve others in pain !!!
Mar 10, 8:06 PM
Kristi (Guest): Jesus suffered for us, as we need to take our cross and suffer for the Love of God
Mar 10, 8:08 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): Virtue also gives us the opportunity to Serve Others by showing them or teaching them God’s Way !!!
Mar 10, 8:08 PM
VisitationSiste: So they can go hand in hand!
Mar 10, 8:09 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): Tools to Serve God and Others in this Life !!!
Mar 10, 8:09 PM
Michelle Pasko Olivier: It takes virtue to suffer and accept suffering
Mar 10, 8:09 PM
Ruth (Guest): Romans 8, I think — circa v. 18 ff. Let me check.
Mar 10, 8:10 PM
Ruth (Guest): Related, but not exactly what I was thinking of.
Mar 10, 8:10 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes true Michelle. I wonder when we see God more clearly Probably depends on the individual
Mar 10, 8:11 PM
Ruth (Guest): Not only so, but we also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. [Romans 5:3-9]
Mar 10, 8:12 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): Amen !!!!
Mar 10, 8:12 PM
Carol Ann: So if we are not sufferring we are not growing
Mar 10, 8:13 PM
VisitationSiste: Growth feels like suffering very often
Mar 10, 8:13 PM
Michelle Pasko Olivier: Suffering can come to us in many ways.
Mar 10, 8:14 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): Barometer for our relationship with God ! Do we Glory in Suffering or do we just complain !
Mar 10, 8:15 PM
Ruth (Guest): Jesus seemed to know: “Glorify your Son” — before the crucifixion.
Mar 10, 8:15 PM
Carroll (Guest): There is a certain kind of suffering that comes with watching others suffer- like Our Blessed Mother’s pierced heart
Mar 10, 8:15 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): When we Glory we are open to assisting God in many ways !!! When we are stuck in complaining we miss opportunities God has for us to serve in midst of suffering
Mar 10, 8:15 PM
VisitationSiste: Or like what you do with your clients- you help but you also watch
Mar 10, 8:16 PM
Ruth (Guest): And most any mother, father, of a sick or suffering child — or a child bullied.
Mar 10, 8:16 PM
Michelle Pasko Olivier: Yes, and sometimes that is a harder suffering. To see another in pain and not be able to take the pain away.
Mar 10, 8:17 PM
Ruth (Guest): Indeed.
Mar 10, 8:17 PM
Chrissie Capron: maybe it depends on one’s response- in either circumstance.
Mar 10, 8:17 PM
Chrissie Capron: whether suffering or watching suffering
Mar 10, 8:17 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, to be a caregiver and watch someone’s health failing and being powerless
Mar 10, 8:17 PM
Carroll (Guest): … which presents the opportunity to grow in virtues: trust, faith ,…
Mar 10, 8:17 PM
Ruth (Guest): So true.
Mar 10, 8:17 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): Action if Service to God to Suffer with Others
Mar 10, 8:18 PM
Carroll (Guest): What do you mean, Brian?
Mar 10, 8:18 PM
Ruth (Guest): . . . and maybe even not SHOW that one is suffering.
Mar 10, 8:18 PM
Chrissie Capron: perhaps the greater suffering is being separated from love, and whether one is to suffer or not to suffer, if our human response in that circumstance is disconnected from God or love or others- maybe that is a great suffering.
Mar 10, 8:19 PM
Carol Ann: Yes
Mar 10, 8:19 PM
Chrissie Capron: so to glorify God and to be indifference requires great trust
Mar 10, 8:19 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): It is Christian Action to suffer with others who are suffering . You are carrying some of their burden of suffering !
Mar 10, 8:20 PM
Ruth (Guest): That is close to the definition of Hell, Chrissie. Being permanently separated from God, and God is Love.
Mar 10, 8:20 PM
Carroll (Guest): Yes.
Mar 10, 8:21 PM
VisitationSiste: Trust in Another, Faith, Confidence- all related
Mar 10, 8:21 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): Love lifts the Burdens from others and avoids placing burdens on others
Mar 10, 8:21 PM
Kristi (Guest): If seperatee from God, sometimes that suffering will bring you back to God.
Mar 10, 8:22 PM
Chrissie Capron: yes, God can allow suffering. and can bring good out of it
Mar 10, 8:23 PM
Carroll (Guest): Just think of how much closer we are to God each time we go to Confession.
Mar 10, 8:23 PM
Carol Ann: I struggle with that Brian, not trying to lighten the burden for others, but looking to others besides Jesus to help carry mine
Mar 10, 8:23 PM
Ruth (Guest): Purgatory’s Definition Kristi, only not the “sometimes” part. In Purgatory the victory is assured, once one has been sufficiently purified.
Mar 10, 8:25 PM
VisitationSiste: and the suffering in purgatory is about the desire to be with God
Mar 10, 8:25 PM
Carroll (Guest): Maybe that is part of where the joy in suffering comes from: Since we know purgation is necessary, each “taste” of it brings Heaven sooner, one hopes
Mar 10, 8:25 PM
Carol Ann: To be so close and yet so far away
Mar 10, 8:27 PM
Chrissie Capron: that may be why suffering with others is considered loving- God is in others- and then by sharing in sharing- we are connected to love and to God and to others.
Mar 10, 8:27 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): Carol Ann when we really take time to listen to others and they share with us it really lifts burdens . Missed opportunity this morning I said something to soon and prevented someone from sharing !!! It was a missed opportunity to lift burden ! We are all learning !!!
Mar 10, 8:27 PM
Carroll (Guest): I have to say goodnight early: blessings everyone!
Mar 10, 8:27 PM
Chrissie Capron: Blessings!
Mar 10, 8:27 PM
Kristi (Guest): Good night, Carroll!
Mar 10, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: Good night Carroll! Blessings to you!
Mar 10, 8:27 PM
Michelle Pasko Olivier: Good night
Mar 10, 8:27 PM
Carol Ann: Good night Carroll
Mar 10, 8:27 PM
Ruth (Guest): Carol Ann, there is a time for being a Simeon — helping carry others’ crosses — and a time for letting others help us. It’s not one or the other. And the latter, becoming dependent upon others out of necessity, may be harder than carrying others’ burdens or even strengthening them to carry them, themselves (I’m thinking here especially of children.) Jesus way to calvary was way harder than the bit of help he had.
Mar 10, 8:28 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): God Bless You Carroll !!!
Mar 10, 8:29 PM
Carol Ann: Maybe that’s why so many strong a and independent people face devastating illness and loss of independence
Mar 10, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Thank you all for such great contributions tonight. Hopethis helps your Lenten journey!
Mar 10, 8:30 PM
Chrissie Capron: Thank you!
Mar 10, 8:30 PM
Ruth (Guest): Blessings, Carroll. You ARE a blessing to George and
Mar 10, 8:30 PM
Kristi (Guest): Thank you Sister for these weekly chats
Mar 10, 8:30 PM
Michelle Pasko Olivier: Thank you
Mar 10, 8:30 PM
Ruth (Guest): Thank you, Sister.
Mar 10, 8:30 PM
Carol Ann: Thank you Sister!
Mar 10, 8:31 PM
Kristi (Guest): Good night, Everyone. I truly enjoy these chats. God Bless.
Mar 10, 8:31 PM
Guest5507 (Guest): God Bless You All !!! Thanks for the Prayers for Kairos Men !!! Awesome Mini-Retreat Great Sharing !!!
Mar 10, 8:31 PM
Michelle Pasko Olivier: Good night
Mar 10, 8:32 PM
Carol Ann: God bless you all! Another fun and thought provoking evening!
Mar 10, 8:32 PM
VisitationSiste: You are welcome. Prayers for all this week!
Mar 10, 8:36 PM
Ruth (Guest): There was a time, many years ago, when I had reasonable anxiety that I might become a burden . . . My friend Miriam, having not long before buried her mother after a long period of care-giving, M. having given up her job, her profession and lost practically all of her possessions, said “IF you need to be cared for, SOMEONE will NEED to care for you.” I think she was showing a deep trust in God’s providence — that whether we suffer ourselves or have to lovingly watch someone else suffer, there is some GOOD
Mar 10, 8:36 PM
Ruth (Guest): that can come of it.
Mar 10, 8:39 PM
Ruth (Guest): Good night Carol Ann, Brian and viewer. Have a blessed, profitable (for the soul) first week of Lent.