Another deep one! Let’s discuss the distinction that Saint Francis makes between a temptation and giving into the temptation. Why do we guilt ourselves regarding temptation as if it is a sin? How can we learn to not feel guilt for temptation itself? Saint Francis says that God wills us to have enemies. What does this mean? Why does God want us to grow in the practice of virtue? Why doesn’t God just infuse us with the supernatural grace to overcome virtue without effort? We have encountered this
We have encountered this question before, but what is the purpose of Jesus saving us from our sins if all we do is battle against a life of sin still? This Lent, how can we harness the power of our fasting and penance and almsgiving to help us grow in this area of fighting concupiscence and temptation? without effort? We have encountered this question before, but what is the purpose of Jesus saving us from our sins if all we do is battle against a life of sin still? This L
Mar 24, 6:16 AM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): This Lent, how can we harness the power of our fasting and penance and almsgiving to help us grow in this area of fighting concupiscence and temptation?
Mar 24, 6:16 AM
VisitationSiste: Viewers, if you sign in we would be happy to start the chat with the formal questions!
Mar 24, 7:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Let’s discuss the distinction that Saint Francis makes between a temptation and giving into the temptation. Why do we guilt ourselves regarding temptation as if it is a sin?
Mar 24, 7:31 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi Carroll
Mar 24, 7:31 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Mother Susan Marie and Jennifer-
Mar 24, 7:31 PM
Carroll (Guest): and viewers
Mar 24, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Carroll! Glad you could be here- how are your clients
Mar 24, 7:32 PM
Jennifer Koo: A temptation is not a sin, but the giving into temptation is a sin
Mar 24, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: People often feel the temptation so strongly they think feeling it is a sin but as you say only giving in to it is the sin
Mar 24, 7:33 PM
Jennifer Koo: Jesus was tempted 3 times without giving in
Mar 24, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: 3 recorded in Scriptures but he did suffer through the one in the garden, wishing the cup topass but He accepted it
Mar 24, 7:35 PM
Carroll (Guest): Thank you for asking about George & Ginny: continuing one day at a time… family plans a mtg among themselves on Tuesday to discuss options/plans for the future, so I pray for their wisdom and peace among siblings through the process.
Mar 24, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: Often people feel unwarranted guilt
Mar 24, 7:35 PM
Jennifer Koo: Jesus knows all our temptations because he is a 100%human
Mar 24, 7:37 PM
Jennifer Koo: He is able to save us from giving in to temptation
Mar 24, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: Call on Him for grace
Mar 24, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: Why does God want us to grow in the practice of virtue? Why doesn’t God just infuse us with the supernatural grace to overcome virtue without effort?
Mar 24, 7:38 PM
Jennifer Koo: We need our Shepherd every moment of our life
Mar 24, 7:38 PM
Jennifer Koo: So that we can trust in God with all our hearts
Mar 24, 7:39 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Ruth and Kristi!
Mar 24, 7:39 PM
Jennifer Koo: and lead us to learn to love Him
Mar 24, 7:39 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi, Ruth and Kristj
Mar 24, 7:39 PM
Carroll (Guest): In regards to the question at hand, sometimes the gut level feelings that accompany temptation can be so intense that even though I don’t act out in anger, I clearly have felt it… I have often drawn an analogy to the admonition about how a married man even looking at another woman commits the sin of adultery… 2 different issues or sins, but why is feeling anger not a sin if thinking lustfully is one?
Mar 24, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: Very good question!!
Mar 24, 7:40 PM
Jennifer Koo: Angry is not a sin
Mar 24, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: Not sure I can answer it but good for our discussion here
Mar 24, 7:40 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi Everyone, trying to catch up in the posts!
Mar 24, 7:41 PM
Jennifer Koo: My spiritual director told me that being angry is a natural human emotion
Mar 24, 7:41 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Ruth and Kristi!
Mar 24, 7:42 PM
Jennifer Koo: The prolonged of anger and the acting of revenge etc causes us to sin
Mar 24, 7:43 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hello everyone. Just read through what you’ve been discussing. Welcome back Jennifer.
Mar 24, 7:43 PM
Jennifer Koo: Thank you Ruth
Mar 24, 7:43 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi, viewers
Mar 24, 7:44 PM
Carroll (Guest): Maybe in the case of lust, there is some measure of consent to “enter into” the idea; whereas, the initial feeling of anger is not something we consent to… It DOES become our responsibility to actively refuse to consent to it, and beg God’s grace to refuse the temptation.
Mar 24, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: Very possible-
Mar 24, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: Thats where virtue comes in to dismiss the thought
Mar 24, 7:45 PM
Jennifer Koo: We have the responsibility to avoid temptation
Mar 24, 7:46 PM
Jennifer Koo: To stay away
Mar 24, 7:46 PM
Ruth (Guest): So maybe the looking at a woman in lust already involves some consent, like not avoiding a “near occasion of sin.”
Mar 24, 7:47 PM
VisitationSiste: our efforts show love
Mar 24, 7:47 PM
VisitationSiste: to avoid sins I mean
Mar 24, 7:47 PM
Carroll (Guest): The beauty of surrender is that when we “offer up” our weakness in feeling whatever “strikes” us, then Love gets the upper hand and the temptation is transformed to virtue!
Mar 24, 7:47 PM
Jennifer Koo: Avoiding being in places that causes us into temptation
Mar 24, 7:49 PM
Jennifer Koo: I will say goodbye now. It’s getting too late
Mar 24, 7:49 PM
Carroll (Guest): Good night Jennifer- thank you for being here!
Mar 24, 7:49 PM
Ruth (Guest): I was once at a retreat, intended mainly for college students and run by Franciscan priests, in which it was pointed out that NOT to be angry about certain situations may be sin. Anger helps to energize one to do what is necessary to combat injustices. I think it depends on WHAT one is angry about and HOW one responds.
Mar 24, 7:49 PM
Jennifer Koo: Good night and God bless
Mar 24, 7:50 PM
Kristi (Guest): Good night, Jennifer.
Mar 24, 7:50 PM
Ruth (Guest): Good night, Jennifer.
Mar 24, 7:51 PM
Ruth (Guest): Scripture says “Do not let your anger cause you to sin.” NOT “Anger is sin.
Mar 24, 7:51 PM
Ruth (Guest): ”
Mar 24, 7:52 PM
Carroll (Guest): Interesting point, Ruth.
Mar 24, 7:53 PM
Ruth (Guest): And yet, when I feel anger, even very justifiably, I hesitate way to long to act on it for fear of sinning by doing so.
Mar 24, 7:57 PM
Ruth (Guest): For instance, to sue a lawyer or a doctor — or at least report him to the Bar Association or the Medical Professions Office — for fraud or clearly violating his legal obligations may take me so long that I become by my inaction indirectly partially responsible for continued bad behavior on the part of the professional.
Mar 24, 7:59 PM
Carroll (Guest): For me, the goal is to act peaceably to address issues that I feel angry about rather than reacting in a way that disturbs my peace… I tend to wait to act also, though, which sometimes leads to the sin of yielding to murmuring or complaining… then, sometimes even detraction… So, practicing silence during Lent in these instances is helpful; but, discerning whether to act more assertively versus learning to suffer well through a situation, trusting in Divine Providence, becomes the challenge.
Mar 24, 7:59 PM
Ruth (Guest): Somewhere, recently, I heard that it is actually an act of love to oppose, correct, or reveal serious injustices.
Mar 24, 8:01 PM
Carroll (Guest): Oh Ruth- that is a tough one! …
Mar 24, 8:01 PM
Ruth (Guest): You explain the dilemma well, Carroll.
Mar 24, 8:03 PM
Carol Ann: Hi everyone!
Mar 24, 8:03 PM
Carol Ann: Just finished my formation session and and catching up
Mar 24, 8:05 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi Carol Ann!
Mar 24, 8:05 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yet, the opposite view is promulgated by the “maxims” of Fr. Jean-Pierre Medaille, SJ who started the SSJ swith his vision of the “Little Design” Communities.
Mar 24, 8:08 PM
Carroll (Guest): Suing a professional is one issue requiring an ethical decision in a particular circumstance… For example, if some remuneration is truly needed in order to pay for the care required to deal with the harm caused versus the seeking of personal gain at another’s expense… The issue of reporting to the licensing Board is another issue. I would suggest that in cases of true harm, reporting to the licensing Board is a way to protect others from being harmed AND
Mar 24, 8:09 PM
Carol Ann: The Little Design communities try to show a more Christian outlook on social justice?
Mar 24, 8:09 PM
Carroll (Guest): AND protecting the professional from continuing to harm others and maybe opening the door to help from a professional assistance program, if warranted.
Mar 24, 8:10 PM
Kristi (Guest): How I have dealt with anger has changed over time. I question myself why I am angry, and do pray for help.
Mar 24, 8:10 PM
Ruth (Guest): Maybe the difference is: we MUST keep silence about the faults of others — in a small community where it can be reasonably assumed that the intentions of each are essentially good, to leave them room to grow and change and not do the harm of causing a bad reputation but we MUST report serious violations
Mar 24, 8:11 PM
Ruth (Guest): of professionals in order to protect others from similar harm.
Mar 24, 8:14 PM
Ruth (Guest): Looks like we are on a similar track of thinking Carroll — only I think you type faster!
Mar 24, 8:14 PM
Sister (Guest): I got locked out by my computer sorry this is Sr Susan
Mar 24, 8:15 PM
Carroll (Guest): Good to be reminded about the necessity of always giving others the benefit of the doubt and assuming good intentions!
Mar 24, 8:15 PM
Carroll (Guest): ME typing fast… that is funny!
Mar 24, 8:15 PM
Sister (Guest): I missed a lot just keep chatting
Mar 24, 8:16 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Sr Susan Marie
Mar 24, 8:16 PM
Ruth (Guest): But deliberate fraud or negligence that causes others harm is an abomination that should be countered if we are able.
Mar 24, 8:16 PM
Sister (Guest): Hi Carol Anne I was on earlier but computer froze
Mar 24, 8:17 PM
Carol Ann: I was late due to formation and am picking up the thread of conversation
Mar 24, 8:17 PM
Sister (Guest): Did we cover virtue I I am not able to backtrack so just carry on
Mar 24, 8:19 PM
Sister (Guest): What topic are we on
Mar 24, 8:20 PM
Carroll (Guest): I think I got somewhat side-tracked…
Mar 24, 8:20 PM
Sister (Guest): That is ok
Mar 24, 8:21 PM
Ruth (Guest): That is one of the complaints now in the Church: that certain Bishops and even Cardinals caused or allowed serious sexual misconduct to occur and even to continue, WITHOUT being corrected or prevented by those who were in a position to stop or prevent the harm.
Mar 24, 8:21 PM
Carroll (Guest): We are probably on Ques. 2: What does it mean that God wills us to have enemies?
Mar 24, 8:21 PM
Sister (Guest): Thanks!
Mar 24, 8:24 PM
Carroll (Guest): Maybe these grave injustices are appropriately “enemies.” … just as agents of evil are enemies.
Mar 24, 8:24 PM
Sister (Guest): Yes
Mar 24, 8:25 PM
Carol Ann: Our own sin is also our enemy
Mar 24, 8:25 PM
Carroll (Guest): Amen!
Mar 24, 8:26 PM
Kristi (Guest): Our vises are our enemies which we need to resist.
Mar 24, 8:26 PM
Ruth (Guest): Indeed, Carol Ann.
Mar 24, 8:27 PM
Kristi (Guest): vice
Mar 24, 8:27 PM
Ruth (Guest): But even that, God can use to increase virtue, if we allow him to, and if we ask for his grace to do so.
Mar 24, 8:29 PM
Ruth (Guest): Sr., I have a problem with the expression in question 3 “overcome virtue.” It seems like a typo or a serious translation error. We don’t want to overcome virtue but to grow in virtue.
Mar 24, 8:29 PM
Ruth (Guest): We want to overcome sin, and even faults.
Mar 24, 8:33 PM
Kristi (Guest): I’m wishing you all a pleasant night! Bye!
Mar 24, 8:33 PM
Carroll (Guest): Oops- looks like Mother Susan Marie’s computer froze again… Unfortunately, duty calls and I have to say “goodnight” as well- Have a Blessed week everyone!
Mar 24, 8:34 PM
Ruth (Guest): Looks like we may need another week,i.e. hour session on these questions.
Mar 24, 8:34 PM
Carol Ann: I’m sorry I was locked out and the end of the thread has disappeared!
Mar 24, 8:36 PM
Ruth (Guest): What’s the saying? “The devil is in the details.” Sometimes it seems he’s right there in the technology, too.
Mar 24, 8:38 PM
Ruth (Guest): Prayerful good wishes to each of you. It is hard to believe how quickly time passes. We are, I think, a bit more than halfway through Lent already.
Mar 24, 8:38 PM
Carol Ann: Yep–some bit of knowledge is vital here yet we seem kept apart
Mar 24, 8:38 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, I wish you a blessed week as well