Saint Francis makes an interesting point here. What good is martyrdom (dying for God) if one does not live for God?2. Do you think it is possible for someone to become a martyr who was not already living a life for God? Or in Saint Francis’ words: “How can he will to die for God who will not live according to God?”3. While acknowledging the supreme act of love that martyrdom is, Francis refers to it is as just a single act of love. How can we show our love for God in other ways?4. What are ways that we c
Jul 27, 10:47 AM
VisitationSiste: can
be “martyrs” without dying (the so-called “white
martyrdom”)?
5. Why is it so difficult to forgive those close to us – friends, spouses, and
neighbors? Why is it so important
Jul 27, 10:47 AM
VisitationSiste: Sun chat July 28 730pm est
Jul 28, 4:45 PM
Guest1399 (Guest): Have a Wonderful Chat tonight Sister Susan !!! Please ask everyone to pray for Kairos Men tonight and we also have volunteers at Kingdombound Christian Music Festival next four days recruiting volunteers for Kairos !!! God Bless You All !!! Keep Shining for Jesus !!! 🙏🙏🙏
Jul 28, 7:23 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi, Alice
Jul 28, 7:27 PM
VisitationSiste: I thought it might have been you
Jul 28, 7:27 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Alice!
Jul 28, 7:27 PM
Alice (Guest): Hello everyone.
Jul 28, 7:27 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi Christi
Jul 28, 7:27 PM
VisitationSiste: and Kristi
Jul 28, 7:27 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi Everyone!
Jul 28, 7:28 PM
VisitationSiste: Did you post on the website Kristi about monasteries? I answered one today
Jul 28, 7:28 PM
VisitationSiste: and some survey is not working right
Jul 28, 7:28 PM
Kristi (Guest): Yes, I did read it! Thank you
Jul 28, 7:28 PM
Kristi (Guest): Nor is the emailing portion of it. I had tried twice recently
Jul 28, 7:28 PM
VisitationSiste: Thank you for letting me know. I have to tell the webmaster
Jul 28, 7:29 PM
Kristi (Guest): That’s good. I filled the survey out but it wouldn’t send,
Jul 28, 7:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Tonight we begin by talking about martyrdom!
Jul 28, 7:30 PM
VisitationSiste: which St Jane often referred to- and as her feast is approaching, a good time to think about what she thought about
Jul 28, 7:30 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Everyone!
Jul 28, 7:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Dawn!
Jul 28, 7:30 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi Dawn
Jul 28, 7:30 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi Dawn!
Jul 28, 7:30 PM
Dawn (Guest): good topic tonight
Jul 28, 7:31 PM
VisitationSiste: first reflection: What good is martyrdom (dying for God) if one does not live for God?2. Do you think it is possible for someone to become a martyr who was not already living a life for God?
Jul 28, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: Living a life for God can be a martyrdom for some
Jul 28, 7:32 PM
Jennifer Koo: Maybe one become a martyr not by choice but situation causes it to happen
Jul 28, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes good point, like in persecuted areas
Jul 28, 7:33 PM
Jennifer Koo: Yes, many times due to change of political power, it can happen overnight
Jul 28, 7:34 PM
Dawn (Guest): Do you mean living a life for God but not being martyred, just the living and losing loved ones perhaps?
Jul 28, 7:35 PM
Jennifer Koo: I think it means living a life of self sacrifice
Jul 28, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: yes St Jane would call it a martyrdom
Jul 28, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: I’ll see if I can find the reference
Jul 28, 7:36 PM
Jennifer Koo: A white martyrdom
Jul 28, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: she called it the martyrdom of love
Jul 28, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: My dear daughters, many of our holy fathers in the faith, men who were pillars of the Church, did not die martyrs. Why do you think this was?” Each one present offered an answer; then their mother continued. “Well, I myself think it was because there is another martyrdom: the martyrdom of love. Here God keeps His servants and handmaids in this present life so that they may labor for Him, and He makes of them both martyrs and confessors. I know,” she added, “that the Daughters of the Visitation are meant to
Jul 28, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: to be martyrs of this kind and that, by the favor of God, some of them, more fortunate than others in that their desire has been granted, will actually suffer such a martyrdom.”
Jul 28, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: Divine love takes its sword to the hidden recesses of our inmost soul and divides us from ourselves. I know one person whom love cut off from all that was dearest to her, just as completely and effectively as if a tyrant’s blade had severed spirit from body.”
Jul 28, 7:39 PM
Alice (Guest): I love these words of St. Jane. Wonderful.
Jul 28, 7:39 PM
Jennifer Koo: Wonderful but not easy
Jul 28, 7:39 PM
VisitationSiste: Alot to ponder, yes!
Jul 28, 7:39 PM
Kristi (Guest): Like our Virgin Mother.
Jul 28, 7:39 PM
Alice (Guest): St. Jane’s words are almost prophetic in regards to the life of St. Margaret Mary. I believe she suffered a lot to bring the message of the Sacred Heart.
Jul 28, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: True!!
Jul 28, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: When another sister asked how long the martyrdom would continue, the saint replied: “From the moment when we commit ourselves unreservedly to God, until our last breath. I am speaking, of course, of great-souled individuals who keep nothing back for themselves, but instead are faithful in love. Our Lord does not intend this martyrdom for those who are weak in love and perseverance. Such people He lets continue on their mediocre way, so that they will not be lost to Him; He never does violence to our free w
Jul 28, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: will
Jul 28, 7:41 PM
Jennifer Koo: Wow
Jul 28, 7:41 PM
VisitationSiste: So if we are not great-souled He accepts I am sure. all that we can give and suffer for Him
Jul 28, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: last part: the saint was asked whether this martyrdom of love could be put on the same level as martyrdom of the body. She answered: “We should not worry about equality. I do think, however, that their martyrdom of love cannot be relegated to a second place, for love is as strong as death. For the martyrs of love suffer infinitely more in remaining in this life so as to serve God, than if they died a thousand times over in testimony to their faith and love and fidelity.”
Jul 28, 7:44 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hopefully we have the grace to suffer such martyrdom
Jul 28, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes it takes grace for sure- whether in or out of a monastery
Jul 28, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: but as Gospel said today ASK
Jul 28, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: ask for everything esp grace
Jul 28, 7:46 PM
Jennifer Koo: It is an honour to be chosen
Jul 28, 7:46 PM
Jennifer Koo: I suppose we can ask
Jul 28, 7:46 PM
Jennifer Koo: Can we
Jul 28, 7:48 PM
Dawn (Guest): Ask.
Jul 28, 7:48 PM
VisitationSiste: How
can we show our love for God in other ways?4. What are ways that we c
Jul 27, 10:47 AM
VisitationSiste: can be “martyrs” without dying (the s
Jul 28, 7:49 PM
Dawn (Guest): being obiedent to his will always
Jul 28, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: and that can be difficult in two ways for me- first to be sure of His will
Jul 28, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: that is sometimes hard
Jul 28, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: and then as you suggest, to do tHis will
Jul 28, 7:51 PM
Jennifer Koo: Yes, always we are not sure
Jul 28, 7:52 PM
VisitationSiste: that is a real suffering
Jul 28, 7:52 PM
Kristi (Guest): Making sacrifices such as helping the needy and ill.
Jul 28, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: and there are so many needy!
Jul 28, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: I was speaking with a woman from Colombia who said it is very difficult there now as so many are leaving Venezuela for Colombia
Jul 28, 7:54 PM
Dawn (Guest): to know his will, if we are unsure maybe we can pray ask him to show us if or what is his will.
Jul 28, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: horror stories, really
Jul 28, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: true Dawn, ask Him to show us! Then perhaps we need to recognize when He does
Jul 28, 7:55 PM
Kristi (Guest): Yes, there are Sister. Watching other news sources helps see what’s going on. The US doesn’t even cover much outside the US>
Jul 28, 7:56 PM
Dawn (Guest): Imagining the difficulty of being in other places where it is so difficult and painful
Jul 28, 7:57 PM
Ruth (Guest): And Colombia is no garden of Eden either; my friend Fr. Pablo served there. Wow! What he witnessed and was part of — and now dying of complications of what he suffered there.
Jul 28, 7:57 PM
Dawn (Guest): Nigeria
Jul 28, 7:57 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Ruth. What happened to him?
Jul 28, 7:57 PM
Jennifer Koo: It’s 1am, I have to go now. Good night and GOD bless
Jul 28, 7:58 PM
Dawn (Guest): goodnight Jennifer. God bless!
Jul 28, 7:59 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Ruth….yes what happened?
Jul 28, 7:59 PM
Kristi (Guest): Good night, Jennifer
Jul 28, 7:59 PM
Ruth (Guest): No direct violence to him, but illnesses that he would never have experienced in Europe — with lifelong manifestations.
Jul 28, 7:59 PM
VisitationSiste: Blessings Jennifer!
Jul 28, 8:01 PM
VisitationSiste: Why is it so difficult to forgive those close to us – friends, spouses, and neighbors? Why is it so important
Jul 28, 8:01 PM
VisitationSiste: Is this a martyrdom of sorts
Jul 28, 8:01 PM
Ruth (Guest): Glad you’ve been back, Jennifer. Was thinking of you, praying all is well with you — and, funny, because of mosquitoes here, remembering hearing of very strict laws in — your country, I think — e.g. being ticketed it there was any water in a saucer under a potted plant on a windowsill.
Jul 28, 8:02 PM
Ruth (Guest): if there is
Jul 28, 8:03 PM
Alice (Guest): Perhaps it is difficult to forgive those closest to us because we have a higher expectation of them than we do strangers or mere acquaintances. Maybe…?
Jul 28, 8:03 PM
Ruth (Guest): water — because mosquitos breed in it and carry diseases
Jul 28, 8:04 PM
Kristi (Guest): trust, sometimes is the cause, I think
Jul 28, 8:04 PM
VisitationSiste: do youman when our trust is betrayed
Jul 28, 8:04 PM
Kristi (Guest): yes, lost of trust is what I was going to write, you wrote it better
Jul 28, 8:04 PM
Dawn (Guest): or a situation which is continous (rather than one event) hard to forgive
Jul 28, 8:04 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, Alice, I think you are right on the mark about that.
Jul 28, 8:05 PM
Ruth (Guest): I agree Dawn.
Jul 28, 8:06 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Carol Anne
Jul 28, 8:06 PM
Dawn (Guest): true Alice, our loved ones we would expect more, I think this is true
Jul 28, 8:07 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Everyone!
Jul 28, 8:07 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Carol Ann!
Jul 28, 8:07 PM
Ruth (Guest): Betrayal of trust is what makes the abuse within the Church so awful; people then blame God, the Church, for the sins committed against them.
Jul 28, 8:08 PM
VisitationSiste: Horrific yes
Jul 28, 8:09 PM
Dawn (Guest): Betrayal. yes, the church, but even of loved ones when they betray being open and transparent with one another
Jul 28, 8:09 PM
Ruth (Guest): And early betrayal of children’s trust by their parents or caregivers leaves a legacy of either distrust or struggle to trust usually lifelong.
Jul 28, 8:10 PM
Dawn (Guest): we really are so fragile!
Jul 28, 8:10 PM
Dawn (Guest): we are so weak without him. our only hope is Him
Jul 28, 8:11 PM
Ruth (Guest): Spouses have to be able to trust one another.
Jul 28, 8:12 PM
VisitationSiste: How is trust manifested- is it an interior state as well as an outward demonstration
Jul 28, 8:13 PM
Ruth (Guest): I sometimes wonder how people who do not know about the God who humbled Himself to take on everything we are except our sinfulness can go on in the face of serious hardships.
Jul 28, 8:14 PM
Ruth (Guest): Come to think of it, a lot of them do NOT. The suicide rate, among young people is skyrocketing!
Jul 28, 8:14 PM
Dawn (Guest): it is, but I also believe there are more conversions now
Jul 28, 8:15 PM
Dawn (Guest): many people turning to God, his church. I think this does not make big news yet many are talking of it
Jul 28, 8:16 PM
Kristi (Guest): Yes, I think so. Trust in God to guide us, is interior
Jul 28, 8:16 PM
Dawn (Guest): like the underground news
Jul 28, 8:16 PM
Ruth (Guest): And, sadly, more reversions: I think the rate is something like 3 out of four.
Jul 28, 8:16 PM
Alice (Guest): I think trust is both, inward and outward. A trustworthy person will be a person of integrity which springs froth from strong moral principles and this integrity is then manifested by the actions of a well ordered, well principled life.
Jul 28, 8:17 PM
Ruth (Guest): I hope you are right, Dawn.
Jul 28, 8:17 PM
Dawn (Guest): Trust is built overtime, its an accumilation of love acted out
Jul 28, 8:19 PM
Ruth (Guest): But slowly, the US population, the horrendous new abortion laws in NYS not withstanding, are coming to realize the error of so-called “abortion rights.”
Jul 28, 8:19 PM
VisitationSiste: It is true we don’t hear all the good news. Someone told me that on St Ann’s Feast this week in NYC a church was packed for over 4 hours with people praying
Jul 28, 8:19 PM
Ruth (Guest): Well put Dawn.
Jul 28, 8:20 PM
VisitationSiste: Even when we are betrayed and lose trust we could view the incident as a one time weakness and not totally lose trust in the person
Jul 28, 8:20 PM
Ruth (Guest): I think people are beginning to realize that we are in a battle against demonic forces both in the Church and in western society.
Jul 28, 8:22 PM
Dawn (Guest): important point Sr Susan
Jul 28, 8:22 PM
Ruth (Guest): Could be sister, and it could be that that would just be imprudence; it depends on the situation, and the person and the kind of incident, and whether or not there is only a contractual relationship or a covenant relationship, as in marriage.
Jul 28, 8:25 PM
VisitationSiste: great points, it helps to discern a situation
Jul 28, 8:25 PM
VisitationSiste: but yes we are in a tremendous spiritual battle
Jul 28, 8:25 PM
Dawn (Guest): Yes, Ruth,, didn’t Bishop Barren refer to it as a diabolical masterpiece? the church…but it is not confinded to just there
Jul 28, 8:25 PM
VisitationSiste: it is almost unreal the things I read about
Jul 28, 8:25 PM
Ruth (Guest): ALL of us are sinners; all offend one way or another, at least some of the time. We need to realize that in an imperfect world with imperfect people even good, generally trustworthy people can, at times, do something that challenges our trust, or omit to do something they should or have promised to do. . .
Jul 28, 8:25 PM
VisitationSiste: so we need to support one another in any way we can’
Jul 28, 8:25 PM
Dawn (Guest): It does seem unreal !
Jul 28, 8:26 PM
VisitationSiste: but it is happening
Jul 28, 8:26 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes, so important to encourage one another during these times!!
Jul 28, 8:26 PM
Ruth (Guest): What seems unreal; what is happening?
Jul 28, 8:28 PM
Dawn (Guest): sometimes…well I wonder if living during these times could or is be seen as a sort of martyrtom
Jul 28, 8:28 PM
Ruth (Guest): Let me know if you would like a copy of Bishop Barron’s Letter to a Suffering Church. I purchased extra copies to give to anyone who would be likely to read it. It’s about the sexual abuse crisis.
Jul 28, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: I was referring to the great spiritual battle
Jul 28, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Dawn I think so
Jul 28, 8:30 PM
Ruth (Guest): One thing Bishop Barron points out is that there ARE precedents, both biblical and in the history of the church. You have to be able to get past the first few chapters . . .
Jul 28, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: I need to leave now- blessings on each of you!
Jul 28, 8:30 PM
Kristi (Guest): Good night, Sister, and thank you!
Jul 28, 8:30 PM
Kristi (Guest): Good night, Everyone!
Jul 28, 8:30 PM
Dawn (Guest): good night Sr. thank you, God bless
Jul 28, 8:31 PM
Dawn (Guest): goodnight Kristi
Jul 28, 8:31 PM
Carol Ann: Quite a deep discussion tonight
Jul 28, 8:33 PM
Ruth (Guest): Good night Sister, good night, Kristi. Hi Carol Ann; I didn’t notice you were here. Just “listening” tonight?
Jul 28, 8:34 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes. Carol Ann. hope all is well with you. and Ruth, and everyone. Peace be with us all. Goodnight
Jul 28, 8:34 PM
Carol Ann: My formation ran very late tonight and I was not up to speed. Just got back from my brothers wedding. Marvelous! But I am jet lagged
Jul 28, 8:34 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, deep. Living as a martyr or dying as one; it seems that that is what these times call for.
Jul 28, 8:35 PM
Dawn (Guest): weddings wonderful. get a good night sleep!
Jul 28, 8:35 PM
Carol Ann: Whoever would save his life will lose it, whoever will lose it will save it
Jul 28, 8:35 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you Carol Ann
Jul 28, 8:35 PM
Carol Ann: I think I’ve started sleeping already
Jul 28, 8:36 PM
Ruth (Guest): So glad, Carol Ann, you were able to attend the wedding and enjoyed it. I will, God willing, be at my grand-niece’s wedding August 24th.
Jul 28, 8:36 PM
Dawn (Guest): we are Ruth, these are the times we are in
Jul 28, 8:36 PM
Carol Ann: Oh, I hope so!
Jul 28, 8:37 PM
Dawn (Guest): Wonderful Ruth! weddings are joyful, hopeful!
Jul 28, 8:37 PM
Carol Ann: And Jesus blesses them
Jul 28, 8:39 PM
Dawn (Guest): Yes. Amen…..goodnight all
Jul 28, 8:39 PM
Carol Ann: Good night!
Jul 28, 8:42 PM
Ruth (Guest): This is a civil wedding Catholic (sorta’)-Jewish (sorta’) — outdoors. Bright, honest couple who, at my brother’s funeral reception, told me they were looking for a priest or a rabbi to officiate, because they felt it important to bring up children in a religious faith. Keep ’em in your prayers, as I will. Good night. Have a blessed week.