Can these virtues of faith, hope,
and charity be practiced by Christians only?
Often faith is presented as a static thing: either you have faith or you do
not. What then does it mean that faith is a virtue (which is very much not a
static thing)?
Why are these particular virtues more “divine” than the virtues we
discussed last week? (See “Chat on Virtue”)
Is it necessary for salvation that we practice these virtues?
Aug 24, 11:05 AM
VisitationSiste: Sun chat Aug 25 at 730pm est
Aug 25, 4:48 PM
Brian (Guest): Hi Sister Susan !!! Have a Wonderful Chat tonight !!! Please keep Kairos Men in your prayers !!! God Bless You All !!!
Aug 25, 7:07 PM
VisitationSiste: ok Brian!
Aug 25, 7:25 PM
VisitationSiste: hello viewer
Aug 25, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: welcome!
Aug 25, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: We can begin anytime you sign in
Aug 25, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Carroll
Aug 25, 7:37 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Mother Susan Marie and viewers
Aug 25, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: Is this topic confusing vs last week
Aug 25, 7:38 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hello Sr Susan and Carroll!
Aug 25, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: We continue about virtue
Aug 25, 7:39 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Dawn!
Aug 25, 7:39 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Dawn!
Aug 25, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: I do not think virtue is limited to one set of believers but the quality of that virtue may be diminished- because it is Christ’s virtues we really live out
Aug 25, 7:40 PM
Dawn (Guest): I don’t think it is confusing but I continue lately to think about Jesus commands to love God and love one another
Aug 25, 7:41 PM
Dawn (Guest): maybe Im a bit confused, quite possibloe
Aug 25, 7:41 PM
Dawn (Guest): possible
Aug 25, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: All people love- and for ex a the early Stoics believed in virtue- but the heart of it all is Jesus
Aug 25, 7:43 PM
Carroll (Guest): I don’t find it confusing… makes sense that while all virtues are important, faith, hope, and love supercede purity… or, are actually prerequisites to true purity of intention
Aug 25, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: Ah- that is an insight
Aug 25, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: repeating q
Aug 25, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: Can
these virtues of faith, hope, and charity be practiced by Christians only?
Often faith is presented as a static thing: either you have faith or you do
not. What then does it mean that faith is a virtue (which is very much not a
static thing)?
Why are these particular virtues more “divine” than the virtues we
discussed last week? (See “Chat on Virtue”)
Is it necessary for salvation that we practice these virtues?
Aug 25, 7:44 PM
Dawn (Guest): purity of intention! this is something to ponder
Aug 25, 7:44 PM
Dawn (Guest): Faith is not a feeling
Aug 25, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: Purity of intention in regards to virtue, good thoughts here
Aug 25, 7:46 PM
VisitationSiste: No faith is more than a feeling
Aug 25, 7:47 PM
Carroll (Guest): I think of “purity of intention”as praying for the grace to truly being doing whatever I am doing out of love for God and neighbor. So, that’s exactly what you are thinking about, too!
Aug 25, 7:47 PM
VisitationSiste: where does faith fit in there
Aug 25, 7:48 PM
Dawn (Guest): If I begin to have many thoughts coming from situations and circumstandances, then I may question my purity of intention.
Aug 25, 7:48 PM
VisitationSiste: faith in others goodness?
Aug 25, 7:49 PM
Dawn (Guest): Faith in God, while understanding human nature
Aug 25, 7:49 PM
VisitationSiste: good clarification
Aug 25, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: sometimes we might need to clarify even the concept of virtue!
Aug 25, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: Is it a grace? or an effort on our part? or both?
Aug 25, 7:51 PM
Carroll (Guest): If faith is complete trust and confidence in another, then should we really only place our faith in God and hold hope in our hearts with confidence for our neighbor, taking into account we are all human?
Aug 25, 7:52 PM
Carroll (Guest): … You are much more succinct, Dawn.
Aug 25, 7:52 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Jennifer.
Aug 25, 7:53 PM
Dawn (Guest): My faith is based on and in God alone for I do not even have complete trust and confidence in myself! For apart from me, Jesus says, we can do nothing
Aug 25, 7:53 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi
Aug 25, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: We assent to truths with our faith as well
Aug 25, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Jennifer!
Aug 25, 7:53 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi Carol
Aug 25, 7:53 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi MOTHER
Aug 25, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: Faith hope and charity are more religious virtues, one might say, than simply natural ones
Aug 25, 7:55 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Jennifer! how are you?
Aug 25, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: as the question put it, divine virtues
Aug 25, 7:56 PM
Jennifer Koo: I am having a retreat lead by a Dominican priest
Aug 25, 7:56 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi Dawn
Aug 25, 7:57 PM
VisitationSiste: That’s great!
Aug 25, 7:57 PM
Jennifer Koo: Happen that today the priest talk about the opposite of faith is not doubtful but fear
Aug 25, 7:59 PM
VisitationSiste: Interesting and what good timing
Aug 25, 7:59 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you for sharing this, opposite of faith is fear.
Aug 25, 7:59 PM
Jennifer Koo: Fear causes one to lost faith and the grace of GOD
Aug 25, 8:00 PM
Carroll (Guest): I know that the ancient philosophers esteemed and practiced virtuous behavior, so that is evidence of human effort making a difference, but I am convinced that true virtue, for love of God (not self serving) develops by our cooperating with Grace… no way to do that ourselves.
Aug 25, 8:00 PM
VisitationSiste: That’s what I was trying to express but you did it so much better!
Aug 25, 8:01 PM
Dawn (Guest): clear, thank you Carroll.
Aug 25, 8:03 PM
VisitationSiste: These are essential virtues for those who believe in God
Aug 25, 8:03 PM
VisitationSiste: But are they necessary for salvation too
Aug 25, 8:04 PM
VisitationSiste: That is something to ponder when we think of God’s mercy
Aug 25, 8:06 PM
VisitationSiste: For believers it is basic to who we are to cultivate these virtues
Aug 25, 8:07 PM
VisitationSiste: any other thoughts
Aug 25, 8:07 PM
Carroll (Guest): …I get “stumped” talking about salvation because I know we have the Catechism and Church teachings, but we also have the message of Divine Mercy and we know the Love of the Sacred Heart!
Aug 25, 8:08 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes- to those to whom much is given more will be expected!
Aug 25, 8:10 PM
Dawn (Guest): salvation is a big subject. some believe God will just be merciful and understand our human nature. but Jesus is very clear in the Gospels
Aug 25, 8:11 PM
Jennifer Koo: I think the question is will GOD saves the whole of all humans
Aug 25, 8:12 PM
VisitationSiste: I agree it is a huge topic and we would be arrogant to think we could formulate real decisions about ti but still- it was a question for tonite so we can think about it
Aug 25, 8:13 PM
Dawn (Guest): Todays readings….Strive to enter through the narrow door, for many, I tell you, will attemot to enter but will not be strong enough
Aug 25, 8:13 PM
VisitationSiste: hmnn yes good also
Aug 25, 8:14 PM
Jennifer Koo: Today the priest talked about Julian of Norwich. She had been spending a long time pondering about this question
Aug 25, 8:14 PM
Dawn (Guest): for behold, some are last, who will be first, and some are first who will be last
Aug 25, 8:15 PM
VisitationSiste: and Julian said all will be well!
Aug 25, 8:16 PM
Jennifer Koo: The priest said GOD gave her an answer after much prayers
Aug 25, 8:16 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes, it is good to ponder this Sister! she did say this
Aug 25, 8:16 PM
Carroll (Guest): A bit of a delayed thought, regarding an earlier question about virtues… It is good to remember that God uses EVERY good effort… Sometimes human efforts to increase in virtue can create the space needed or open us up to receive and cooperate with grace… for ex: practicing purity at a human level gets a lot of distractions out of the way to be able to develop purity at a higher level.
Aug 25, 8:17 PM
Dawn (Guest): So hopeful Carroll!
Aug 25, 8:18 PM
VisitationSiste: hello guest 9678
Aug 25, 8:18 PM
Guest9678 (Guest): Hello
Aug 25, 8:18 PM
VisitationSiste: Cooperating with grace is very important, yes
Aug 25, 8:19 PM
Jennifer Koo: Cooperating and let GOD be GOD
Aug 25, 8:20 PM
Dawn (Guest): I seem to have life circumstandes ( lately) that are just what is needed to help me grow in virtue. but I had not thought of it as growing in virtue, yet it is this
Aug 25, 8:20 PM
Carroll (Guest): Amen! Jennifer
Aug 25, 8:21 PM
Dawn (Guest): Surrendering to God…
Aug 25, 8:21 PM
Jennifer Koo: We can never be perfect. Jesus after resurrection still carrying HIS wounds. That’s something to reflect
Aug 25, 8:21 PM
Dawn (Guest): oh!
Aug 25, 8:21 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Jennifer! Powerful
Aug 25, 8:22 PM
Jennifer Koo: This is our homework for tonight
Aug 25, 8:23 PM
Carroll (Guest): My new spiritual director talks about how whenever we embrace the Cross by accepting our brokenness and offering all of ourselves to God, embracing the sorrow that comes with the Cross, then God infuses virtue..
Aug 25, 8:23 PM
Jennifer Koo: We human being are always fearful of thoughts that created by ourselves, i.e. to be perfect which we can never
Aug 25, 8:23 PM
Carroll (Guest): …as long as we cling hold of Him
Aug 25, 8:24 PM
VisitationSiste: Infused virtue- we will probably need another night for that- but great subject- sounds like a good director
Aug 25, 8:24 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi Anne
Aug 25, 8:24 PM
anne goetze: Hello !
Aug 25, 8:25 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Anne
Aug 25, 8:26 PM
anne goetze: What are some of the ‘little virtues’ of the Visitaion?
Aug 25, 8:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Anne!
Aug 25, 8:26 PM
Dawn (Guest): infused virtue. would be good talk !
Aug 25, 8:26 PM
VisitationSiste: gentleness, humility, simplicity, patience
Aug 25, 8:28 PM
anne goetze: Sounds like my prayer every time I get out of bed. How to keep relating it all day??
Aug 25, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: We probably can find out in the Treatise about infused virtues and in the Introduction about little virtues
Aug 25, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: keep asking for grace
Aug 25, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: before each action
Aug 25, 8:29 PM
Guest9678 (Guest): 👍
Aug 25, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: only grace keeps us in the right direction, with our cooperation
Aug 25, 8:30 PM
Carroll (Guest): Reminds me of ” let every breath be a prayer”
Aug 25, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: yes but a conscious one sometimes is necessary
Aug 25, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: conscious breath and prayer
Aug 25, 8:31 PM
Carroll (Guest): I have to say ” goodnight” – Thank you everyone- Have a blessed week!
Aug 25, 8:32 PM
Jennifer Koo: Wishing all of you a grace filled week ahead, good night
Aug 25, 8:32 PM
Dawn (Guest): goodnight Carroll, thank you for your insights! God bless
Aug 25, 8:32 PM
VisitationSiste: Thank you all and prayers also for a good week
Aug 25, 8:33 PM
Dawn (Guest): Good night everyone, thank you. much to ponder on this week.
Aug 25, 8:33 PM
Dawn (Guest): Prayers…
Aug 25, 8:36 PM
anne goetze: Electricity just went out..back on and catching up
Aug 25, 8:38 PM
anne goetze: Goodnight and God bless you all also.
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