What is the distinction between virtue and divine virtue? Is Saint Francis saying there is no merit in the virtues of a pagan? Related to that, if a virtuous pagan dies without knowing Christ, will his virtue have any effect on his salvation? If virtues are not salvific on their own, but salvation requires faith and works, is there a contradiction here? How can we explain this? If the virtues practiced by those not in a state of grace are made so much more excellent when practiced by a perso
Aug 17, 9:18 AM
VisitationSiste: person in the state of grace, what does that say about grace?
Aug 17, 9:19 AM
VisitationSiste: Sun chat 730pm est Aug 18
Aug 18, 5:27 PM
VisitationSiste: Not sure I can be here tonight
Aug 18, 7:32 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Brian, how are you? How is Kairos?
Aug 18, 7:36 PM
Brian (Guest): Hi Carol Ann ! Kairos is going well . Please pray for our picnic next Sat August 24th . We have many possible new volunteers who will be attending ! How are you and Elizabeth doing ! God Bless You !!!
Aug 18, 7:37 PM
Carol Ann: I will pray for you! I’m not sure I know Elizabeth?
Aug 18, 7:38 PM
Brian (Guest): Thanks Carol Ann !!!
Aug 18, 7:38 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Carroll and Kristi
Aug 18, 7:39 PM
Brian (Guest): Hi Carrol and Kristi ! God Bless You !
Aug 18, 7:39 PM
Carroll (Guest): Elisabeth is doing well… thanks for asking, Brian. Glad to hear about Kairos… Hi Carol Ann. We have missed you!
Aug 18, 7:40 PM
Carroll (Guest): And Kristi
Aug 18, 7:40 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Ruth
Aug 18, 7:40 PM
Carol Ann: I miss this group too. My new formation assistant needs to meet on Sundays and our time often overlaps with the chat
Aug 18, 7:41 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi Everyone! Good to be here
Aug 18, 7:41 PM
Brian (Guest): Hi Ruth ! God Bless You !
Aug 18, 7:41 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Ruth
Aug 18, 7:42 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hello everyone. I have a special prayer request, too: My friend Miriam’s brother died a couple of days ago. Please pray for her, her relatives, and for me that I may be able to offer her comfort . . . Thanks.
Aug 18, 7:42 PM
Kristi (Guest): I have a conflict as well on this time slot. I’ll be here for a little while too.
Aug 18, 7:43 PM
Kristi (Guest): I will pray, Ruth.
Aug 18, 7:43 PM
Carol Ann: I will pray Ruth, I am so sorry
Aug 18, 7:43 PM
Carol Ann: I’m glad you came Kristi
Aug 18, 7:43 PM
Carroll (Guest): Be assured of our prayers!
Aug 18, 7:44 PM
Brian (Guest): Soo Sorry Ruth !!! We will Pray for You All !!!!
Aug 18, 7:44 PM
Ruth (Guest): I think I’ll request a Mass be said for her brother, as long as she’s OK with the idea.
Aug 18, 7:46 PM
Ruth (Guest): I need to get my computer glasses; these trifocals are almost worse than none. Be back soon.
Aug 18, 7:46 PM
Carol Ann: It doesn’t look like Sister can come tonight. Should we start?
Aug 18, 7:48 PM
Carroll (Guest): Virtue vs divine virtue… reminds me of doing the right thing vs doing the right thing with purity of intention, for the love of God
Aug 18, 7:50 PM
Brian (Guest): Amen !!! Carroll
Aug 18, 7:50 PM
Carol Ann: Is it possible to do the right thing for one’s own sake, for pride or reputation, etc with nothing if the divine in it?
Aug 18, 7:52 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi everyone! Peace be with you
Aug 18, 7:52 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Dawn!
Aug 18, 7:53 PM
Carroll (Guest): I have to believe that if I do something good for another person, but my intentions are all twisted up with thoughts about myself (pride, hoping to be admired, wanting some sort of pay check, etc), God can still use this for good… and it is still preferable to neglecting to do good… but, how much better when His Grace makes it possible for me to forget about myself as I give to another!
Aug 18, 7:54 PM
Brian (Guest): Happens all the time Carol Ann !
Aug 18, 7:54 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Dawn!
Aug 18, 7:54 PM
Brian (Guest): Hi Dawn !!! God Bless You !!!
Aug 18, 7:54 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi Dawn!
Aug 18, 7:54 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hello friends chat sisters and brothers
Aug 18, 7:55 PM
Carol Ann: It seems to me that we have a hard time forgetting about ourselves in everything
Aug 18, 7:56 PM
Brian (Guest): Soo True Carol Ann !!!
Aug 18, 7:56 PM
Kristi (Guest): I agree, Carol Ann!
Aug 18, 7:56 PM
Dawn (Guest): If I would just get out of the way
Aug 18, 7:56 PM
Kristi (Guest): I have to leave you all! Have a Blessed night.
Aug 18, 7:57 PM
Dawn (Guest): Good night Kristi. God bless
Aug 18, 7:57 PM
Brian (Guest): God Bless You Kristi !!!
Aug 18, 7:57 PM
Carroll (Guest): Praise be to God that He puts EVERYTHING to good use, especially when we ask!
Aug 18, 7:58 PM
Brian (Guest): Amen Carroll !!!
Aug 18, 7:58 PM
Carol Ann: We have been reading John Michael Talbots reflections on the admonitions of St Francis and there is an interesting bitcoin healthy ego, which allows us to know we exist and to know God, and unhealthy ego which ,makes us to pretend to be him
Aug 18, 7:59 PM
Dawn (Guest): insightful reflection
Aug 18, 7:59 PM
Carol Ann: Oops, bit on, not bitcoin
Aug 18, 7:59 PM
Dawn (Guest): for discerning the difference
Aug 18, 8:00 PM
Ruth on Medion (Guest): Hi again. I’m on a different computer, the one that was all black screen last week. Had to sign in a second time.
Aug 18, 8:00 PM
Carroll (Guest): I can’t help but be amused: I think the context of the question referred more to nonbelievers or those rejecting God doing good… I immediately thought of how it applied to me! … would that I would truly forget myself someday…
Aug 18, 8:00 PM
Dawn (Guest): I can read what you wrote Ruth
Aug 18, 8:01 PM
Carol Ann: I hear you Carroll, immediately we self-reflect and forget the actual question
Aug 18, 8:04 PM
Brian (Guest): It seems that those who are always available to serve God have a healthy relatioship with God . Those who serve to receive something back however seems to demonstrate a separation from God !
Aug 18, 8:07 PM
Ruth on Medion (Guest): Good insights, all of you. I find the reference so timely for me, anyhow. The belief “No salvation outside the Church” and the clarification (I’d like to call it) in the Documents of Vatican II are so closely intertwined with this question,
Aug 18, 8:07 PM
Dawn (Guest): “There is no danger if our prayer is without words or reflection because the good success of prayer depends neither on words nor on study. It depends upon the simple raising of our minds to God, and the more simple and stripped of feeling it is, the surer it is.” StJane de Chantal
Aug 18, 8:08 PM
Brian (Guest): Remember Jesus observation at the offering . Soo many giving to get praise of Men but only we’re giving extra . The lady who gave the least was really offering everything she had to God !!! Complete Love and Trust in God !!!
Aug 18, 8:08 PM
Carroll (Guest): Beautiful reminder, Dawn!
Aug 18, 8:08 PM
Carol Ann: God can reach beyond the physical human church and save those who are His own even if they are “not of our company
Aug 18, 8:09 PM
Brian (Guest): Amen Dawn !!!
Aug 18, 8:09 PM
Carol Ann: That is beautiful Dawn
Aug 18, 8:12 PM
Ruth on Medion (Guest): Yes, Dawn, I really admire the simplicity and perseverance with which you keep true to your choice to return to the Church — even in challenging situations.
Aug 18, 8:12 PM
Dawn (Guest): “Hold your eyes on God
and leave the doing to Him.
That is all the doing you have to worry about.” St Jane de Chantal…pray for
us!
Aug 18, 8:12 PM
Ruth on Medion (Guest): AND I am happy that the Saint we celebrated recently: St. Jane
Aug 18, 8:13 PM
Ruth on Medion (Guest): Frances de Chantal had words to say that words are not essential to prayer.
Aug 18, 8:14 PM
Brian (Guest): Soo many give time talent resources to help God or to help those who know God even when they do not claim to know God !!! I believe they are reaching out to God by giving . Scriptures say if you give a glass of water to prophet you will receive prophets reward !!!
Aug 18, 8:14 PM
Carol Ann: Because the Spirit interferes for us in what we want to say and what we need
Aug 18, 8:15 PM
Carol Ann: I had a prayer recommended to me recently that is really helping–the litany of humility. Safeguards against all those thing we are talking about
Aug 18, 8:16 PM
Dawn (Guest): I recently heard the priests chant this litany on ewtn. maybe I should take up daily also
Aug 18, 8:17 PM
Carroll (Guest): Yes, Brian… I see this with Elisabeth… She has been helping different people who do work for her for years… never knowing that these very people were praying fiercely for her and doing all they could to draw her back to Jesus…
Aug 18, 8:17 PM
Dawn (Guest): I believe this is true Brian. for God calls us sometimes for many years and it is only later when we realize it was Him
Aug 18, 8:18 PM
Brian (Guest): Amen Dawn !!!
Aug 18, 8:18 PM
Carol Ann: It is hard at first, but it helped me get through a difficult conversation at work recently. I have been saying it in my nighttime prayer for about three weeks now
Aug 18, 8:19 PM
Carroll (Guest): Thanks for sharing, Carol Ann… I will look it up, as well.
Aug 18, 8:21 PM
Brian (Guest): I will look up too Carol Ann !!! Thank You !!! Pride cometh before the Fall ! A friend of mine hung this in his office after falling to Pride !!! He hoped that it would help others !!!
Aug 18, 8:22 PM
Carroll (Guest): SO true, Brian.
Aug 18, 8:23 PM
Carol Ann: Sometimes we can be prideful without seeing that we are. Sometimes we are just fearful
Aug 18, 8:23 PM
Brian (Guest): Amen Carol Ann !!!
Aug 18, 8:23 PM
Ruth 4 (Guest): Sorry my technical problems keep cutting off my access to chat.
Aug 18, 8:24 PM
Carol Ann: We are missing you Ruth
Aug 18, 8:25 PM
Dawn (Guest): You are signed in differently but can see your post. you also preservere in challening circumstances!
Aug 18, 8:25 PM
Brian (Guest): Pride can sneak into our life Soo quickly !!!
Aug 18, 8:26 PM
Carol Ann: And clothe itself in virtue
Aug 18, 8:28 PM
Dawn (Guest): Yes, it can sneak in! I asked lately, is what I am thinking spiritual pride?
Aug 18, 8:28 PM
Carroll (Guest): I am learning to accept my pride, self-focus, and other weaknesses and to simply ” suffer well” with them by offering them up to God without being upset or astonished by them… I love the “Jesus Prayer” (practiced by the Orthodox Church) for this… helps me TRUST God’s Love and merciful Grace to do the healing and infuse virtue while I just get on with doing whatever needs to be done in the present moment… whether being still with Him or working…
Aug 18, 8:28 PM
Brian (Guest): Soo True Carol Ann we can turn from a Disciple to a Pharisee !!!
Aug 18, 8:29 PM
Carol Ann: The Jesus prayer is so amazing, so powerful
Aug 18, 8:33 PM
Carroll (Guest): I need to say, ” good night” now. I am so very appreciative of each of you and this group. Have a blessed week!
Aug 18, 8:33 PM
Brian (Guest): Jesus has given us discernment soo that we can recognize when pride is creeping in to our life . We can stop and pray for God’s Help ! A client always said she would picture a Stop Sign being held up !!! Powerful visual reminder to Stop and Pray !!!
Aug 18, 8:33 PM
Dawn (Guest): Goodnight Carroll. God bless you!
Aug 18, 8:33 PM
Carol Ann: Have a good week Carroll!
Aug 18, 8:34 PM
Carol Ann: That’s a good one too, Brian
Aug 18, 8:35 PM
Brian (Guest): Goodnight Carroll !!! God Bless You !!!
Aug 18, 8:35 PM
Dawn (Guest): thinking…I could add this to signs around town. it is a very small town and we are asked to shake things up a bit!
Aug 18, 8:36 PM
Carol Ann: How does this hour always pass so fast?
Aug 18, 8:37 PM
Ruth 4 (Guest): Just found the Litany of Humility. Just realized I’d heard it, recited publicly somewhere, in a church. And that it is marked “for private use only.” A few days ago I read that there are only 3 Litanies approved by the church for PUBLIC prayer. Interesting. The history of that has to do with the multiplying of litanies at one time in the history of the Church, SOME of them questionable. But this one is apparently part of a good tradition. I guess we need to look at each carefully and accept and use t
Aug 18, 8:37 PM
Dawn (Guest): I did not realize it Carol Ann. thank you. Prayers for Sr Susan +++
Aug 18, 8:38 PM
Carol Ann: I did not know that litany was not recognized. I bet the person who recommended it doesn’t know either
Aug 18, 8:39 PM
Carol Ann: I wish you both a blessed week!
Aug 18, 8:39 PM
Dawn (Guest): The priests on ewtn did say this Litany following Mass one day, so it is approved?
Aug 18, 8:39 PM
Dawn (Guest): Good night Carol Ann. God bless you!
Aug 18, 8:40 PM
Brian (Guest): Have a Wonderful Week ! Please pray for my daughter Maria and her friends Zoe and Kala ! She just found out her friends who are twins will be transferring to new school for Senior Year of High School ! Maria is crushed ! They have been very close friends ! God Bless You All !!!
Aug 18, 8:40 PM
Carol Ann: I am not clear. I figure since I did not know this and directed my prayer to Jesus, He heard me
Aug 18, 8:40 PM
Carol Ann: I will Brian
Aug 18, 8:41 PM
Dawn (Guest): It is so hard to have friends change while in school! Praying for your dtr and friends Brian
Aug 18, 8:41 PM
Carol Ann: Ewtn is pretty conservative, so it likely is
Aug 18, 8:43 PM
Ruth 4 (Guest): Blessings to all of you. It seemed I was not even going to be able to say “Good night” and then suddenly the “jammed” chat response came through again.
Aug 18, 8:43 PM
Carol Ann: Yay!
Aug 18, 8:43 PM
Ruth 4 (Guest): Carol Ann, of course he heard you AND what they mean by private prayer is what you have been doing. Of course it is OK.
Aug 18, 8:44 PM
Carol Ann: And He helped me in a difficult conversation last week
Aug 18, 8:44 PM
Dawn (Guest): Thank you Ruth and Carol Ann and Brian. please keep my grans in your prayers as they start school, K and 1st. Protection!
Aug 18, 8:45 PM
Dawn (Guest): Good night. God Bless you all
Aug 18, 8:45 PM
Carol Ann: Amen! There are so many bad influences. But their angels will be with them too
Aug 18, 8:45 PM
Carol Ann: May God bless us every one
Aug 18, 8:46 PM
Dawn (Guest): Amen. goodnight~ thank you all
Aug 18, 8:48 PM
Ruth 4 (Guest): Amen to all the good wishes and good byes for now. You remain close to me, and prayed for regularly. I probably will not be able to come on Chat next week. I’m headed for a wedding in Massachusetts. God bless!