Why do we need charity to perfect the virtues? What would virtues without charity look like? What is charity without the virtues? In other words, what does charity look like without virtue? Or, can charity exist without virtue? St. Francis says that besides charity, other virtues “can in turn aid and stimulate one another.” How important is it to know one’s own strong virtues, and one’s areas of weaknesses? Can this help one’s spiritual life? Discuss this phrase: “In loving we exercise obedi
Oct 6, 7:49 AM
VisitationSiste: “In loving we exercise obedience, yet still love draws not its perfection from obedience, but from the goodness of him whom it loves; love not being excellent because it is obedient, but because it loves an excellent good.”
Oct 6, 7:51 AM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): Sun chat 730pm est Oct 6
Oct 6, 7:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Just us so far!
Oct 6, 7:26 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi, MOTHER
Oct 6, 7:26 PM
Jennifer Koo: Yes
Oct 6, 7:27 PM
VisitationSiste: Let’s see who else arrives tonight
Oct 6, 7:27 PM
Jennifer Koo: 1 viewer
Oct 6, 7:28 PM
VisitationSiste: Hello viewers
Oct 6, 7:29 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hello viewers
Oct 6, 7:29 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi, Lisa
Oct 6, 7:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Lisa!
Oct 6, 7:29 PM
Lisa C: Hi Mother, hi Jennifer
Oct 6, 7:30 PM
VisitationSiste: More thoughts on virtue tionight
Oct 6, 7:31 PM
VisitationSiste: The worls does not speak much of it so I imagine it is helpful to emphasize it here
Oct 6, 7:31 PM
VisitationSiste: world
Oct 6, 7:31 PM
Jennifer Koo: To love JESUS is to keep HIS word
Oct 6, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: His Full word, yes
Oct 6, 7:32 PM
Lisa C: Without relativism
Oct 6, 7:33 PM
Jennifer Koo: One that keep HIS word, the charity of GOD is perfected
Oct 6, 7:33 PM
VisitationSiste: Hmn-great sentence
Oct 6, 7:33 PM
VisitationSiste: Because God is Charity, Love
Oct 6, 7:34 PM
Jennifer Koo: GOD is all perfection
Oct 6, 7:34 PM
Lisa C: Silence….mind is winding down from the world
Oct 6, 7:34 PM
Lisa C: Getting calm with God
Oct 6, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes- need that too!
Oct 6, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: Charity is then the bond of perfection
Oct 6, 7:35 PM
Lisa C: Charity is God working in us
Oct 6, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: and we learn in novitiate that our relationships in community should reflect that bond of perfection
Oct 6, 7:35 PM
Lisa C: When we display charity it is God in us
Oct 6, 7:35 PM
Jennifer Koo: GOD is our way towards perfection
Oct 6, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: and also between monasteries which is why we don’t have a central government
Oct 6, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: The bond of perfection is supposed to replace all that
Oct 6, 7:36 PM
Lisa C: God is your center
Oct 6, 7:36 PM
Lisa C: The tabernacle is your center
Oct 6, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes He is there!
Oct 6, 7:37 PM
Lisa C: This week Francis said we encounter Jesus most in the Bible. I disagree. We encounter Him most in the Eucharist.
Oct 6, 7:38 PM
Jennifer Koo: If we can see all as living tabernacle than we are not far from perfection.
Oct 6, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: Often at Mass I have heard a similar comparison- but THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH
Oct 6, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Ruth!
Oct 6, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: Dawn and Chrissie too!
Oct 6, 7:38 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi everyone!
Oct 6, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: Why
do we need charity to perfect the virtues?
What would virtues without charity look like?
Oct 6, 7:39 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi everybody
Oct 6, 7:39 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi!
Oct 6, 7:39 PM
Lisa C: When we talk about the old covenant and the new, Jesus is the new and a covenant is a promise. God’s word= Jesus
Oct 6, 7:39 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi, Ruth, Dawn, Chrissie and Carroll
Oct 6, 7:39 PM
Chrissie Capron: Hi Thank you!
Oct 6, 7:39 PM
Lisa C: Hi Ruth, Dawn, Carroll, Chrissie
Oct 6, 7:40 PM
Dawn (Guest): good chat going on…..
Oct 6, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: Just starting! Join in!
Oct 6, 7:41 PM
VisitationSiste: Jesus’ Sacred Heart is the source of virtue too
Oct 6, 7:41 PM
Jennifer Koo: I agreed
Oct 6, 7:42 PM
Dawn (Guest): vitues without charity may be like self rightousness?
Oct 6, 7:42 PM
Chrissie (Guest): Yes. God is love. Charity is love – comes from God is the foundation for all virtues. Without love, we can do nothing.
Oct 6, 7:42 PM
Lisa C: …also consecration to BVM
Oct 6, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Blessed Mother lived the virtues to the highest degree possible
Oct 6, 7:44 PM
Dawn (Guest): but it all is from divine influence
Oct 6, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Dawn, that’s where self- righteousness can happen
Oct 6, 7:44 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hi Jennifer, Dawn Carroll, Chrissie, and of course Sister Susan Marie and Visitor!
Oct 6, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: But can charity exist without virtue?
Oct 6, 7:45 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Ruth
Oct 6, 7:45 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi, Ruth I am here again.
Oct 6, 7:45 PM
Ruth (Guest): Was just reading through chat. Forgot to press ENTER/
Oct 6, 7:45 PM
Ruth (Guest): Glad to “see” you Jennifer . . . and everyone.
Oct 6, 7:46 PM
Jennifer Koo: Glad to see all of you too
Oct 6, 7:46 PM
VisitationSiste: Love surpasses all
Oct 6, 7:47 PM
Jennifer Koo: Yes, to love GOD and all. That’s the greatest commandments
Oct 6, 7:48 PM
VisitationSiste: I do not think charity is true charity without virtue
Oct 6, 7:49 PM
Jennifer Koo: Could you elaborate
Oct 6, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: To me charity contains all the virtues
Oct 6, 7:50 PM
Jennifer Koo: O
Oct 6, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: and brings them all together in one loving act or state of being
Oct 6, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: How important is it to know one’s own strong virtues, and one’s areas of weaknesses? Can this help one’s spiritual life?
Oct 6, 7:51 PM
Chrissie (Guest): Yes. The Catechism states: 1827 The practice of all the virtues is animated and inspired by charity, which “binds everything together in perfect harmony”;105 it is the form of the virtues; it articulates and orders them among themselves; it is the source and the goal of their Christian practice. Charity upholds and purifies our human ability to love, and raises it to the supernatural perfection of divine love.
Oct 6, 7:51 PM
Carroll (Guest): Perhaps the seeds of carity might be planted by God’s grace, but it seems that charity could only develop and mature through the practice of other virtues. Then, if charity is true, the “fruit” of that would be the evidence of other virtues.
Oct 6, 7:52 PM
Jennifer Koo: Thanks Chrissie and Carroll
Oct 6, 7:53 PM
Chrissie (Guest): It is important to acknowledge one’s strengths and weaknesses- to ask the Lord for awareness of ourselves to see ourselves truly as we are. Humility is to see ourselves as we truly are.
Oct 6, 7:53 PM
Ruth (Guest): `Very important.
Oct 6, 7:54 PM
Ruth (Guest): Good definition of humility, Chrissie.
Oct 6, 7:54 PM
Dawn (Guest): Yes, I believe to know ones virtues and weaknesses is knowing ones self. we need to know ourself in order to grow, I do think this can take awhile. having a spiritual director could help in this respect
Oct 6, 7:55 PM
Carroll (Guest): I am teaching 3rd grade religious ed. ( week 3 of a new endeavor) and today the children were talking about how we can show God we love him… They all agreed that loving kindness towards others was the most important, then listed prayer and participating in Sacraments, etc…
Oct 6, 7:55 PM
Ruth (Guest): Do you think it is really possible to have on-line spiritual direction?
Oct 6, 7:55 PM
Chrissie (Guest): Thank you Ruth. It was given to me. Glad to share it.
Oct 6, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: I think only if you began face to face, or at least that would help
Oct 6, 7:56 PM
Chrissie (Guest): I agree.
Oct 6, 7:56 PM
VisitationSiste: Phone calls help too, again if you have a relationship established already
Oct 6, 7:57 PM
Jennifer Koo: I agree, face to face
Oct 6, 7:57 PM
Chrissie (Guest): in-person is very important. as we need spiritual direction for our whole person. and technology can hinder communication.
Oct 6, 7:57 PM
Dawn (Guest): Not having a human spiritual director one can ask the Holy Spirit to come!
Oct 6, 7:57 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi, viewers
Oct 6, 7:58 PM
Chrissie (Guest): relationship is key! we change in the context of relationship – establishing one in- person is good, and then technology can be a good alternative at times
Oct 6, 7:58 PM
Chrissie (Guest): Yes- the Holy Spirit is good!
Oct 6, 7:59 PM
Jennifer Koo: Since I left Singapore, though I still been in contact with my SD, but it is different
Oct 6, 8:00 PM
Jennifer Koo: He can no longer be my confessor
Oct 6, 8:01 PM
Chrissie (Guest): A spiritual director does not need to be your confessor
Oct 6, 8:01 PM
Ruth (Guest): I’m asking because I am getting e-mail from Avila Institute and SpiritualDirection.com and ever since Sr. Charlotte Keith died I haven’t had a spiritual director. A good one would help. But how can an on-line “relationship” adequately know the real person? — let alone what God is saying to that individual in his/her actual life situation?
Oct 6, 8:01 PM
Dawn (Guest): God can use the people around you. sometimes children- they are transparent
Oct 6, 8:01 PM
Chrissie (Guest): st. francis de sales was a spiritual director for st. jane de Chantal and they communicated by letters
Oct 6, 8:02 PM
Jennifer Koo: But they met before that
Oct 6, 8:02 PM
Chrissie (Guest): the Letters of St. Francis de Sales are some of my favorite letters to read
Oct 6, 8:02 PM
Dawn (Guest): or anyone really…
Oct 6, 8:02 PM
VisitationSiste: Have you read both the letters to religious and letters to persons in the world?
Oct 6, 8:02 PM
Dawn (Guest): oh good point Chrissie!
Oct 6, 8:03 PM
Dawn (Guest): I have not
Oct 6, 8:03 PM
Jennifer Koo: If not the priest having seen me and be my SD and confessor for years, he might not be able to help now
Oct 6, 8:04 PM
Chrissie (Guest): you are free to look for another spiritual director
Oct 6, 8:04 PM
Jennifer Koo: But it is not easy to find one
Oct 6, 8:04 PM
Chrissie (Guest): I have not yet read the letters to Christians in the World. I see the link here: Is this is? http://www.vatican.va/spirit/documents/spirit_20010522_diogneto_en.html
Oct 6, 8:05 PM
Dawn (Guest): did every saint have a spiritual director?
Oct 6, 8:05 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you
Oct 6, 8:05 PM
VisitationSiste: That’s not it Chrissie don’t know if its on line
Oct 6, 8:05 PM
VisitationSiste: Most saints did I think
Oct 6, 8:06 PM
Chrissie (Guest): it can be challenging to find one. I have been trying to find one too. I am giving it to God- in His good timing. It takes time to see. We can pray that the Lord will help guide us to one in His good timing.
Oct 6, 8:06 PM
Ruth (Guest): I was fortunate to borrow a copy of SFdS’s letters from the Our Lady of the Adirondacks House of Prayer library. I’ve read some of them but not all, by any means.
Oct 6, 8:06 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes pray for the one for your soul
Oct 6, 8:06 PM
VisitationSiste: Last question: Discuss this phrase: “In loving we exercise obedience, yet still love draws not its perfection from obedience, but from the goodness of him whom it loves; love not being excellent because it is obedient, but because it loves an excellent good.”
Oct 6, 8:07 PM
Carroll (Guest): Thank you for the link! I have read many of his letters, both to religious and to women in the world… would be good to ” revisit” them- priceless!
Oct 6, 8:07 PM
Dawn (Guest): Lisa, are you still here?
Oct 6, 8:07 PM
Lisa C: I think Mother Theresa exemplified that statement
Oct 6, 8:07 PM
Dawn (Guest):
Oct 6, 8:08 PM
Lisa C: She saw Jesus in everyone
Oct 6, 8:08 PM
Lisa C: That is the excellent good
Oct 6, 8:08 PM
Lisa C: The spark of true life in us
Oct 6, 8:09 PM
VisitationSiste: The Lord is the excellent Good- Yes and He lives within
Oct 6, 8:09 PM
Lisa C: We are temples of the Holy Spirit
Oct 6, 8:09 PM
VisitationSiste: and sometimes we have trouble visiting that temple within another
Oct 6, 8:10 PM
Lisa C: Sometimes they are changing money and selling things and we need Jesus to throw over the tables
Oct 6, 8:10 PM
Jennifer Koo: ?
Oct 6, 8:10 PM
Lisa C: God is still in there
Oct 6, 8:11 PM
Chrissie (Guest): it can be hard to see at times. even in ourselves. it helps to look at the eyes of each person you encounter. there you can better connect with them, and see them truly. God is with us. He can even work through technology. However, God who is love- is not a feeling, so even when we do not feel His presence within us or feel it within the person we encounter, we know through Faith that He is with us
Oct 6, 8:12 PM
VisitationSiste: We need to direct our souls words to the inner core of that temple where He lives
Oct 6, 8:12 PM
Jennifer Koo: It is difficult to seeing JESUS in everyone. We need a lot of prayers and practice
Oct 6, 8:12 PM
Dawn (Guest): in everyone. may be obscure or hidden, you are saying/ then Jesus needs to throw over the tables
Oct 6, 8:12 PM
Lisa C: Why could only the high priest go to the holy of holys in the temple
Oct 6, 8:13 PM
Jennifer Koo: Because that’s his duty
Oct 6, 8:13 PM
Dawn (Guest): is it true we can only see Jesus in another to the extent we can in ourself? would this be part of knowing ourself?
Oct 6, 8:13 PM
Lisa C: Dawn, I meant sometimes the worldliness of a person makes it hard to see Jesus
Oct 6, 8:13 PM
Chrissie (Guest): I often see Jesus in the faces of children/babies and the elderly. Often persons who say very little verbally, and yet so so much in other ways of communicating. it has helped to spend time in Eucharistic Adoration, where the Lord can speak to us, without using spoken words
Oct 6, 8:14 PM
Lisa C: Why was the high priest worthy and not the people if they gave him the animals to perform the blood sacrifice
Oct 6, 8:14 PM
Jennifer Koo: Because of sin
Oct 6, 8:15 PM
Ruth (Guest): So true, Chrissie. Good questions, Dawn.
Oct 6, 8:15 PM
Lisa C: The high priest was also sinful
Oct 6, 8:15 PM
Jennifer Koo: But now we are the high priest and
Oct 6, 8:15 PM
Jennifer Koo: Yes, he is also sinful
Oct 6, 8:15 PM
Jennifer Koo: So he has to make an animal sacrifice as well
Oct 6, 8:17 PM
Jennifer Koo: Since we are the high priest, we ought to visit the holy of holys
Oct 6, 8:17 PM
Ruth (Guest): People who dislike themselves have a hard time loving anyone.
Oct 6, 8:17 PM
Chrissie (Guest): That may be true Ruth. We can only give what we have received.
Oct 6, 8:18 PM
Jennifer Koo: I agreed, we have to learn to accept ourselves before we could accept others
Oct 6, 8:18 PM
Chrissie (Guest): People who may dislike themselves, may not know God who is the truth. to know that they are loved and to receive His love. It can be challenging in a world that might tell you different
Oct 6, 8:19 PM
VisitationSiste: Without the experience of love people find it hard to believe
Oct 6, 8:19 PM
VisitationSiste: or feel it
Oct 6, 8:19 PM
Ruth (Guest): We participate in the priesthood of the laity by reason of our Baptism, but I do not understand your saying, Jennifer, that we are the High Priest. I think Jesus, himself, is the High Priest. And he offered HIMSELF on the cross for the atonement of our sins.
Oct 6, 8:19 PM
Dawn (Guest): but I can not accept myself by myself. it is only thru …oh I am thinking of justification. and it is Christ who does this. so I need to learn in all ways to trust him
Oct 6, 8:19 PM
VisitationSiste: It is harder to trust in the truth of love for them
Oct 6, 8:21 PM
Chrissie (Guest): trust can be hard. yes. it can be hard to trust the good when you can not see it
Oct 6, 8:21 PM
Jennifer Koo: Ruth, I meant we can now visit the tabernacle, the adoration room, we can pray for ourselves and others like the high priest did
Oct 6, 8:23 PM
Ruth (Guest): Oh, yes. We are so blessed, to have HIS PRESENCE in the Eucharist — even if hidden.
Oct 6, 8:24 PM
Carroll (Guest): Amen!
Oct 6, 8:24 PM
Ruth (Guest): And HE can teach us to love.
Oct 6, 8:24 PM
Chrissie (Guest): Yes
Oct 6, 8:24 PM
Dawn (Guest): Yes
Oct 6, 8:25 PM
Carroll (Guest): Absolutely!
Oct 6, 8:25 PM
Ruth (Guest): Some of the people I’ve known who truly shown with love had a very rough beginning.
Oct 6, 8:25 PM
VisitationSiste: Do all of you have some access to the Tabernacle outside of Sunday Mass?
Oct 6, 8:25 PM
Jennifer Koo: But you are a chosen
generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you
may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His
marvelous light;
I Peter 2:9 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/1pe.2.9.NKJV
Oct 6, 8:26 PM
Lisa C: 24 hrs at St. John the Evangelist
Oct 6, 8:26 PM
Dawn (Guest): the rural parish here has no Adoration time
Oct 6, 8:26 PM
Chrissie (Guest): Yes!
Oct 6, 8:26 PM
Lisa C: Also the hospital
Oct 6, 8:26 PM
Lisa C: St. John has adoration. The hospital has the tabernacle in the chapel
Oct 6, 8:26 PM
Dawn (Guest): apart from Mass times
Oct 6, 8:27 PM
Jennifer Koo: It is a blessing to have access to the tabernacle
Oct 6, 8:27 PM
Lisa C: There is a code lock on the church and downstairs there is a tabernacle with Jesus in the door with a little cover which you can open.
Oct 6, 8:27 PM
Lisa C: You can go any time
Oct 6, 8:28 PM
Ruth (Guest): Jeannine Nichols, God rest her soul, survived interment in a concentration camp. She had been treated very harshly by her own parents, e.g being thrown into a cold animal water trough because she dirtied her dress. As a child she wanted to receive Holy Communion.
Oct 6, 8:28 PM
Dawn (Guest): good idea, maybe I could ask. we do have a separate chapel it is inside the main area
Oct 6, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: That’s such a blessing but for those who don’t we will pray for that grace!
Oct 6, 8:28 PM
Jennifer Koo: We have a few 24/7 adoration room in Singapore
Oct 6, 8:28 PM
Chrissie (Guest): I didn’t realize you were local. I was literally just at St. John Evangelist an hour ago
Oct 6, 8:29 PM
Ruth (Guest): She asked the priest. He deferred to her parents: said she had to wait until her parents said she could.
Oct 6, 8:29 PM
Carroll (Guest): Yes, and when I am unable to leave the house, Adoration online is a wonderful option… until my duties here allow me to go in person.
Oct 6, 8:29 PM
Chrissie (Guest): there is also online donation available through savior.org
Oct 6, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Tomorrow is the Feast of the Holy Rosary of the Blessed Mother. May you all have a graced one!
Oct 6, 8:29 PM
Chrissie (Guest): being in person is ideal for me
Oct 6, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Have to go now God bless!
Oct 6, 8:29 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you Sr. and to you and other sisters as well
Oct 6, 8:29 PM
Lisa C: God bless you Mother
Oct 6, 8:29 PM
Lisa C: God be praised!
Oct 6, 8:30 PM
Chrissie (Guest): Thank you!
Oct 6, 8:30 PM
Dawn (Guest): God bless and be with us all! goodnight
Oct 6, 8:32 PM
Carroll (Guest): Goodnight- Blessings in the week ahead!
Oct 6, 8:32 PM
Jennifer Koo: Good night
Oct 6, 8:38 PM
Ruth (Guest): Thank you Sister, and everyone. IF I get to St. Bernard’s at the right time I can find the door unlocked. I like the arrangement your church has, Lisa. Friday, when I was there and the church was locked with me in it, a man I know came in — apparently had a key. Such a privilege!
Oct 6, 8:43 PM
Ruth (Guest): Good night. God bless you!