What might be the distinction between taking one’s life as described above and taking one’s life through depression and despair?2. How can the present reflection shed light on the abortion industry and the motives and reasons with which people approach abortion?3. And how about current attitudes toward euthanasia and assisted suicide?4. Francis quotes Saint Augustine regarding the virtues of pagans – that they are essentially empty shells that merely resemble true virtues. Let’s discuss this in more deta
Oct 13, 1:41 PM
VisitationSiste: Let’s
discuss this in more detail. Why do the “end/goal” of virtue matter?
5. Is Saint Francis being arrogant and prideful when comparing the virtues of
Christians with the virtues of pagans?
6. How can we inspire others to strive for true virtue, grounded in a love for
God and others?
Oct 13, 1:41 PM
VisitationSiste: Chat Sun Oct 13 730pm est
Oct 13, 7:22 PM
Oct 13, 7:33 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hello Kristi
Oct 13, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Kristi!
Oct 13, 7:35 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi, Everyone! It’s been a while. I’ve been caring for someone for the lasts 5 weeks, and my schedule is really off. It’s lovely though.
Oct 13, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: Let’s begin on a more positive basis than the first question . Last week we discussed virtue and tonight we again focus on Catholic Christian vs pagan virtue. What’s the difference?
Oct 13, 7:36 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi, Carroll
Oct 13, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Blanca How’s things going?
Oct 13, 7:37 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi, Blanca
Oct 13, 7:38 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Jennifer, Blanca, and Mother Susan Marie
Oct 13, 7:38 PM
Carroll (Guest): & Kristi
Oct 13, 7:39 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi Caroll!
Oct 13, 7:39 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi, viewers
Oct 13, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: Then we can get into the more challenging topics of suicide, abortion etc as was listed in the official newsletter for tonight. But a review would be helpful I think
Oct 13, 7:40 PM
Blanca Villa: Hello Sister and everyone else! I had some problem signing in, but made it. Things are a little better with my mom.
Oct 13, 7:40 PM
Carroll (Guest): As Catholic Christians we strive to develop virtue for love of God, … with love of God and others being our true motive.
Oct 13, 7:42 PM
Carroll (Guest): Rather than striving to do good for self-serving reasons or to indulge pridefulness
Oct 13, 7:42 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hello Sr Susan, Carroll Blanca Jennifer and everyone!
Oct 13, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes.
Oct 13, 7:42 PM
Jennifer Koo: Euthanasia will be something that’s not for Catholic but the rest of the Christian might not share the same view
Oct 13, 7:43 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi Dawn
Oct 13, 7:43 PM
Carroll (Guest): We recognize that true virtue develops only with the grace of God, and we are striving to cooperate with Him.
Oct 13, 7:43 PM
Carroll (Guest): Hi Dawn!
Oct 13, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: There was a group in olden days called Stoics. They had virtue but it was as if the virtue itself was the goal, not the motive of love of God
Oct 13, 7:46 PM
Jennifer Koo: I read somewhere in St Francis de Sales books, it says that union of God is the source of all virtues
Oct 13, 7:46 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes the Heart of Jesus itself contains all virtue so to speak
Oct 13, 7:46 PM
Dawn (Guest): Good mention Carroll, because it is by Gods grace. sometimes he will give us a particular grace ,this without us even asking. then it is up to us to agree, and be thankful
Oct 13, 7:47 PM
Kristi (Guest): I think people have lost respect and compassion for one another.
Oct 13, 7:47 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Carol Ann
Oct 13, 7:47 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Everyone!
Oct 13, 7:47 PM
Jennifer Koo: Hi Carol Ann
Oct 13, 7:47 PM
Kristi (Guest): Hi Carol Ann and Dawn!
Oct 13, 7:47 PM
VisitationSiste: So yes that leads in to the other questions..What might be the distinction between taking one’s life as described above and taking one’s life through depression and despair?2. How can the present reflection shed light on the abortion industry and the motives and reasons with which people approach abortion?
Oct 13, 7:48 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Carol Ann!
Oct 13, 7:49 PM
Kristi (Guest): I think both are from selfishness.
Oct 13, 7:49 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Dawn!
Oct 13, 7:52 PM
Kristi (Guest): I’m sorry, I need to go! God Bless you all. I’ll try to read up later.
Oct 13, 7:52 PM
Dawn (Guest): Bye Kristi
Oct 13, 7:52 PM
Kristi (Guest): I’m leaving for a weekend of discernment. Please pray for me.
Oct 13, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes we will!
Oct 13, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: if the pagans practised some virtues, it was generally for the sake of worldly glory, and consequently they had nothing of virtue but the action, and not the motive and intention: now virtue is not true unless it has a right intention.
Oct 13, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: Some of you have said that already How can suicide or abortion have a right intention? Is not that the crux of the matter
Oct 13, 7:54 PM
Carroll (Guest): God knows our hearts- our true motives… It seems to me that He would likely judge suicide driven by pride differently than suicide driven by the sort of overwhelming suffering often accompanied by irrational thinking that someone with depression/ despair might experience
Oct 13, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: good point about irrational thinking
Oct 13, 7:55 PM
Jennifer Koo: Some will think they have a right intention when the test results shows that the baby is abnormal
Oct 13, 7:56 PM
Carol Ann: Is the idea of quality of life a modern invention?
Oct 13, 7:57 PM
VisitationSiste: I think not tho it probably was not expressed in those words
Oct 13, 7:58 PM
VisitationSiste: St Francis said
Oct 13, 7:58 PM
VisitationSiste: As to the virtues that refer to our neighbour, they trod under foot, and most shamefully, by their very laws, the chief of them, which is piety. For Aristotle, the greatest intellect amongst them, pronounced this horrible and most pitiless sentence. “As to the question of exposing, that is, abandoning children, or of bringing them up, let this be the law: that nothing is to be kept that is deprived of any member. And as to other children, if the laws and customs of the city do not allow the abandoning of th
Oct 13, 7:59 PM
VisitationSiste: of them, and the number of any one’s children so increase on him that he has more by half than he can keep, he is to be beforehand, and procure abortion.”
Oct 13, 7:59 PM
Carroll (Guest): Now I certainly know that abortion is murder and can never have a right intention. However, before I came into the Church, I was indoctrinated into the idea that abortion was a compassionate and responsible alternative to babies being born into suffering situations … so it was presented as a means to spare an innocent child from misery… Many loving Christians have been similarly ” brainwashed,” in effect, I think.
Oct 13, 8:00 PM
Carol Ann: Wow, that could have come from something written today
Oct 13, 8:00 PM
VisitationSiste: But it was written 400 years ago!
Oct 13, 8:00 PM
Dawn (Guest): shocking. That Aristotle said this.
Oct 13, 8:01 PM
VisitationSiste: Or more!!! than 400
Oct 13, 8:01 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes- our “secular” heroes were not Christian
Oct 13, 8:01 PM
VisitationSiste: Christianity really is different
Oct 13, 8:01 PM
VisitationSiste: Christ spoke truth for He is Truth
Oct 13, 8:02 PM
VisitationSiste: Seneca, so praised as a wise man, says: “We kill monsters: – and if our children are defective, weakly, imperfect, or monstrous, we cast them off, and abandon them.” So that it is not without cause that Tertullian reproaches the Romans with exposing their children to the mercy of the waters, to cold, to famine, to dogs; and this not by the force of poverty; for as he says, the very chief men and magistrates practised this cruelty.
Oct 13, 8:02 PM
VisitationSiste: Nothing new under the sun!
Oct 13, 8:03 PM
VisitationSiste: Francis
quotes Saint Augustine regarding the virtues of pagans – that they are
essentially empty shells that merely resemble true virtues. Let’s discuss this
in more deta
Oct 13, 1:41 PM
VisitationSiste: Let’s discuss this in more detail. Why do the
“end/goal” of virtue matter?
Oct 13, 8:04 PM
Carol Ann: We base so much of our culture off of Rome and Greece, though most dont know it. The misguided notion of human perfection seems to have come with it
Oct 13, 8:05 PM
Carroll (Guest): I loved the analogy of the worm eaten apple… looks good on the outside, but then see what’s real…
Oct 13, 8:05 PM
Jennifer Koo: Sometimes the hospital could make a mistake
Oct 13, 8:06 PM
Blanca Villa: The end goal of virtue matters because it leads to God.
Oct 13, 8:07 PM
Jennifer Koo: There was a case in my prayers group in Singapore, the doctor advised abortion because the baby is abnormal. But being a Catholic the mother decided to keep the baby. It was born normal and grow up to be a pretty and clever girl.
Oct 13, 8:08 PM
Carroll (Guest): God be praised!
Oct 13, 8:10 PM
VisitationSiste: How can we help others strive for true virtue when virtue is an unused concept in our society today
Oct 13, 8:12 PM
Jennifer Koo: I think we have to live the true virtue ourselves and pray for others
Oct 13, 8:12 PM
Dawn (Guest): Mostly by our striving to obtain certain virtues, say like patience. or I notice when someone has a gentle spirit…
Oct 13, 8:13 PM
Carol Ann: That is the only way, really. Don’t just talk about it, do hit
Oct 13, 8:14 PM
VisitationSiste: I think people today don’t follow others examples
Oct 13, 8:14 PM
VisitationSiste: They just allow everyone to do their own thing
Oct 13, 8:14 PM
Dawn (Guest): But I think it is good ( for me) to question or discern why I work to obtain a virtue. Discerning is there a part of me that is concerned with how others view me?
Oct 13, 8:15 PM
Jennifer Koo: Prayers, lots of prayers is needed in our present world
Oct 13, 8:15 PM
Carroll (Guest): It might also be helpful to talk about loving God sometimes, too, though… if we encounter moments when someone’s heart might be open or when we have an opportunity to “plant a seed.”
Oct 13, 8:15 PM
Carol Ann: Yes, to always analyze our own motives to see if pridechas crept in
Oct 13, 8:16 PM
Dawn (Guest): True Sr. Every one has their own truth. but it is not anothers truth, or my truth. this would be more narcissism. there is only THE truth +
Oct 13, 8:16 PM
VisitationSiste: and we do need to preach Jesus, tell about HIm
Oct 13, 8:16 PM
Blanca Villa: I agree Sister, as long as everyone gets to be “themselves “. I think prayer and kindness towards those around us is a good start.
Oct 13, 8:17 PM
Dawn (Guest): and when necessary, use words! thank you Sr, I was trying to recall this quote all day
Oct 13, 8:17 PM
Jennifer Koo: Yes, I agree with you Mother
Oct 13, 8:18 PM
Jennifer Koo: Please pray for my parents. They are both unwell
Oct 13, 8:18 PM
Carroll (Guest): 🙏🙏🙏sss
Oct 13, 8:19 PM
VisitationSiste: Both? Yes of course we will pray. !!!
Oct 13, 8:19 PM
Dawn (Guest): I meant to say, the world each person is deciding what truth is. but there is only one truth.
Oct 13, 8:19 PM
Dawn (Guest): Are your parents in your home country Jennifer, away? I will pray
Oct 13, 8:20 PM
Jennifer Koo: My dad had fell from a chair when he tried to get something from the shelves
Oct 13, 8:20 PM
Jennifer Koo: He broke his leg
Oct 13, 8:20 PM
VisitationSiste: oh no
Oct 13, 8:20 PM
Dawn (Guest): so sorry
Oct 13, 8:21 PM
Jennifer Koo: While my mum is in the hospital
Oct 13, 8:21 PM
Carol Ann: That is scary!
Oct 13, 8:21 PM
VisitationSiste: We pray for healing for him and peace right now, and for your mom too in the name of Jesus
Oct 13, 8:21 PM
Dawn (Guest): Amen
Oct 13, 8:21 PM
Carroll (Guest): Amen
Oct 13, 8:21 PM
Blanca Villa: Amen
Oct 13, 8:21 PM
Jennifer Koo: Thank you
Oct 13, 8:21 PM
VisitationSiste: May your sacrifice be a grace for them
Oct 13, 8:22 PM
Jennifer Koo: They have no one to look after them
Oct 13, 8:23 PM
VisitationSiste: May our attempts at virtuous living bring a special graceto them and someone inspired to look after them.
Oct 13, 8:23 PM
Jennifer Koo: Thank you
Oct 13, 8:23 PM
VisitationSiste: This is serious and a true challenge. May mary our Mother intercede for them too
Oct 13, 8:25 PM
VisitationSiste: Mary
Oct 13, 8:25 PM
Blanca Villa: Sister can you give some advice on how to approach reading S. Francis de Sales. He’s intense.
Oct 13, 8:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Next week I will either not be at chat OR I will be late I will be in Georgetown Visitation and so I can’t be sure about the schedule
Oct 13, 8:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Blanca Start with the Introduction to the Devout Life and if too heavy look for a translation by B ernard Bangley.
Oct 13, 8:26 PM
Carroll (Guest): Blanca, for me, his letters were easier to read at first.
Oct 13, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: There is a book we have called In the Midst of the World which has a gentler approach too I could send you a copy. E mail me with your address
Oct 13, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: Good idea Carroll!
Oct 13, 8:27 PM
Blanca Villa: Thank you! Will do.
Oct 13, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: any final thoughts? By the way Judy K. left a message for me on the phone this afternoon but her cell box was filled I hope all is ok with her
Oct 13, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: We are drawing close to the end of Treatise on Love of God. Only one more section Book 12. If you have thoughts also for future chats, let me know
Oct 13, 8:29 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you Sr
Oct 13, 8:30 PM
Carol Ann: Thank you so much Sister. This discussion has born much fruit
Oct 13, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Have a blessed week and remember St Margaret Mary’s Feast is Wed. Start of a the Jubilee Year for her- 100 years canonized in 202
Oct 13, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: 2020
Oct 13, 8:30 PM
Carol Ann: That’s amazing
Oct 13, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: hello guest 9957.
Oct 13, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes and more news to come!!
Oct 13, 8:30 PM
Carol Ann: Have a blessed week everyone!
Oct 13, 8:30 PM
Carroll (Guest): Thank you Mother- and everyone… have a blessed week!
Oct 13, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Blessings!
Oct 13, 8:31 PM
Blanca Villa: Thank you. Goodbye everyone.
Oct 13, 8:31 PM
Guest9957 (Guest): Hello everyone. I’ve just come to say good night. I just got in from visiting the Newman Center in Plattsburgh, NY. I guess you know that John Henry Newman was canonized today/
Oct 13, 8:32 PM
Dawn (Guest): Brian!
Oct 13, 8:33 PM
Dawn (Guest): and 4 others less known. I heard today is the day to pray for St Newsman intercession!
Oct 13, 8:33 PM
Dawn (Guest): Good night all. peace
Oct 13, 8:37 PM
Guest9957 (Guest): No. 9957 is Ruth I typed my name, but somehow it didn’t “take” this time. Maybe just trying to get in step with so much else that I do! ; {
Oct 13, 8:43 PM
Guest9957 (Guest): If you are not on the Word on Fire email list (Bishop Robert Barron) now’s a good time to sign up. From October 14 – Oct 31 you can download and watch for free the CATHOLICISM Pivotal Players first video: John Henry Newman. (It’s an advertising freebie, but is the whole 1 hour plus film. I’m confident that it’ll be worth the time.