What is the distinction between
godly sorrow and worldly sorrow?
Why are we called to rejoice in suffering as Christians? Where do we see this
throughout Scripture?
Does St. Francis give a fair overview of sadness in this chapter? Does he take
into account mental health struggles?
How can we live out the Fruits of the Spirit in the midst of sorrow?
Dec 29, 2:21 PM
Lisa C: I think the topic today has to do with what I mentioned a while ago, that God does not give mercy without repentance.
Dec 29, 7:26 PM
Lisa C: The world now seems to think God will just be merciful no matter what
Dec 29, 7:26 PM
Sr Jennifer (Guest): I think God is full of mercy
Dec 29, 7:27 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): do you think God offers mercy first and if there is no repentance He witholds it?
Dec 29, 7:27 PM
Lisa C: God knows before what we will do
Dec 29, 7:27 PM
Lisa C: He already knows
Dec 29, 7:28 PM
Sr Jennifer (Guest): The Lord is merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
Dec 29, 7:28 PM
Lisa C: I think he does offer mercy, but it will not take without repentance
Dec 29, 7:28 PM
Lisa C: John 8:11
Dec 29, 7:29 PM
Lisa C: He does not condemn the woman at the well, but he tells her go and sin no more
Dec 29, 7:29 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): sorrow and repentance, they are a bit different
Dec 29, 7:30 PM
Lisa C: You do not receive Grace if you just think you can keep on sinning
Dec 29, 7:30 PM
Lisa C: Repentance comes after sorrow
Dec 29, 7:30 PM
Lisa C: Confession has no effect without repentance
Dec 29, 7:31 PM
Lisa C: The mercy and the repentance are probably occurring at the same time
Dec 29, 7:31 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): Repentance and penance go together
Dec 29, 7:32 PM
Lisa C: Amoris laetitia is a misleading distortion of mercy
Dec 29, 7:33 PM
Sr Jennifer (Guest): If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Dec 29, 7:34 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): False mercy?
Dec 29, 7:34 PM
Sr Jennifer (Guest): ?
Dec 29, 7:35 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): Hi Ruth
Dec 29, 7:35 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): What is the distinction between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow?
Dec 29, 7:35 PM
Lisa C: I think of the Saints who were killed when invaders came and they were protecting Jesus in the Blessed Sacrement from unworthy people attacking Him without knowing who He is and how to receive Him. Meanwhile does all that mean nothing now?
Dec 29, 7:36 PM
Lisa C: Worldly sorrow is sad things that happen to everyone. Godly sorrow is being sorry for not living up to God’s expectations.
Dec 29, 7:37 PM
Carol Ann: Hello Everyone! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
Dec 29, 7:38 PM
Ruth (Guest): I like your explanation Lisa.
Dec 29, 7:38 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi everyone….
Dec 29, 7:38 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hello Carol Ann, welcome back.
Dec 29, 7:39 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): Merry Christmas! Carol Anne and Dawn, Ruth too!
Dec 29, 7:39 PM
Carol Ann: my formation assistant has the night off, so of course you all were the first people I though of!
Dec 29, 7:39 PM
Sr Jennifer (Guest): Hi, Ruth Dawn and Carol Ann
Dec 29, 7:39 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hi Dawn. I sang in St. B’s choir today, and remembered your intentions.
Dec 29, 7:39 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hello Sr Susan and Sr Jennifer….Merry Christmas blessings
Dec 29, 7:40 PM
Dawn (Guest): Thank you Ruth! God bless you
Dec 29, 7:40 PM
Ruth (Guest): Sr. Jennifer. Do they start calling you “Sister” right away?
Dec 29, 7:40 PM
Sr Jennifer (Guest): Merry Christmas to all
Dec 29, 7:41 PM
Sr Jennifer (Guest): Yes, Ruth. I am Sr Jennifer
Dec 29, 7:41 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): Godly sorrow is sorrow for offending God – sins, worldly is often caused by sin, tho not exclusively
Dec 29, 7:41 PM
Ruth (Guest): I’m so glad there are twelve days of Christmas. If Advent were 7 weeks it wouldn’t be long enough for me.
Dec 29, 7:42 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, Sister, good distiction, but also important to remember NOT exclusively.
Dec 29, 7:43 PM
Ruth (Guest): I think SFdS does well including psychological temperaments.
Dec 29, 7:43 PM
Lisa C: In a way all sadness if from sin entering the world. There was nothing bad or sad before original sin.
Dec 29, 7:43 PM
Lisa C: is
Dec 29, 7:44 PM
Carol Ann: that’s true Lisa. I read somewhere that God allowed original sin so that He could show us mercy
Dec 29, 7:44 PM
Ruth (Guest): Lisa, you are in a healthcare profession, too, aren’t you?
Dec 29, 7:44 PM
Lisa C: Yes
Dec 29, 7:45 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): Did you just answer this one, Ruth?- Does St. Francis give a fair overview of sadness in this chapter? Does he take into account mental health struggles?
Dec 29, 7:47 PM
Carol Ann: I wonder if they had the same ideas of mental health then as we do now?
Dec 29, 7:47 PM
Dawn (Guest): Where would others being judgmental over others belong, surely that brings a sorrow , in either of these categories?
Dec 29, 7:48 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): judemental is sin
Dec 29, 7:48 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you.
Dec 29, 7:49 PM
Ruth (Guest): What you say is clearly scripturally correct. And yet, the whole business of sickness and death just entering Creation with the disobedience of our first parents: there are many ways of considering sickness and death. Would there REALLY have been no death — in the physical sense — were it not for the Fall. It could be that the meaning of this has more to do with the significance of physical death.
Dec 29, 7:50 PM
Lisa C: Ruth, God does not create any imperfection.
Dec 29, 7:50 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): Can you say more?
Dec 29, 7:50 PM
Ruth (Guest): Do you mean, condemning others, Sister?
Dec 29, 7:50 PM
Lisa C: God did not create imperfection
Dec 29, 7:51 PM
Lisa C: The inhabitants of the world people and angels with free will chose what they wanted
Dec 29, 7:51 PM
Carol Ann: and is death an imperfecttion? it is the way to reach heaven, with Jesus’ protection
Dec 29, 7:51 PM
Lisa C: Death is a result of sin
Dec 29, 7:52 PM
Lisa C: Blessed Mother did not die
Dec 29, 7:52 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): No Ruth about the physical death you mentioned
Dec 29, 7:52 PM
Lisa C: There was no death before the fall
Dec 29, 7:52 PM
Carol Ann: you’re right Lisa, God gave Mary special grace
Dec 29, 7:53 PM
Ruth (Guest): I’m not sure what you mean, Sister.
Dec 29, 7:53 PM
Lisa C: Anything bad in the world entered when sin entered
Dec 29, 7:54 PM
Ruth (Guest): Assumption or Dormition. Theologians have been discussing that for a long, long, time.
Dec 29, 7:54 PM
Lisa C: God did not make death. It was a result of sin. Jesus makes sin and death have no power over us. He brings us back to God and the way the world was before sin.
Dec 29, 7:54 PM
Carol Ann: Lisa, i have in the back of my mind a quote from St Francis of Assissi who welcomed death as the way to God and saw it as a positive thing, as long as we prepare for it properly. do you know what i am speaking of?
Dec 29, 7:55 PM
Lisa C: St. Paul
Dec 29, 7:55 PM
Lisa C: Philippians 1:21
Dec 29, 7:56 PM
Ruth (Guest): All we know is that Mary was — appropriately for the Mother of God — preserved from sin, and that the end of her earthly life was distinctly different, because of this, from that of all of the rest of us.
Dec 29, 7:56 PM
Lisa C: That was Him showing his faith that God has saved him
Dec 29, 7:57 PM
Carol Ann: Hmm, I know you’re right, but i seem to remember Francis calling it Sister Death.
Dec 29, 7:57 PM
Ruth (Guest): I’m just not sure that death in itself is bad, ONLY separation from God is bad. Adam and Eve walked with God. The sinned and HID from Him.
Dec 29, 7:57 PM
Ruth (Guest): They separated themselves sinning.
Dec 29, 7:59 PM
Lisa C: I found St. Francis…All praise be yours, my Lord, through Sister Death,From whose embrace no mortal can escape.Woe to those who die in mortal sin!Happy those she finds doing your will!The second death can do them no harm.Praise and bless my Lord, and give him thanks. And serve him with great humility.
Dec 29, 7:59 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): Thank you!
Dec 29, 7:59 PM
Ruth (Guest): I agree, Carol Ann. Adam and Eve were pure a little bit like an infant or young child — esp. after Baptism — is pure, undefiled.
Dec 29, 8:00 PM
Carol Ann: You are awesome Lisa! How did you ever find that?
Dec 29, 8:00 PM
Carol Ann: they were, until Eve listened to that snake
Dec 29, 8:01 PM
Lisa C: St. Paul
Dec 29, 8:01 PM
Lisa C: 21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that through my being with you again your boasting in C
Dec 29, 8:02 PM
Lisa C: Christ Jesus will abound on account of me.
Dec 29, 8:02 PM
Carol Ann: amen, may it be so for us as well
Dec 29, 8:03 PM
Dawn (Guest): Amen
Dec 29, 8:04 PM
Lisa C: Death is not bad for people with faith, but it would have been better if we never separated from God in the first place.
Dec 29, 8:04 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): I once read a mystic maybe Bl Emmerich, that showed the world got progressively worse after the Fall- and that does bear out today
Dec 29, 8:05 PM
Lisa C: We did not have a choice after original sin got in the world.
Dec 29, 8:05 PM
Carol Ann: yes, it does. things are progressively worse as we continue to follow our own council
Dec 29, 8:05 PM
Lisa C: We were born into a world with good and evil
Dec 29, 8:05 PM
Carol Ann: no, we didn’t. but thanks be to God for the grace of Baptism and the moment by moment choice we have to not sin
Dec 29, 8:05 PM
Lisa C: Overall maybe worse, but we have Jesus
Dec 29, 8:06 PM
Ruth (Guest): But we always have a choice. If we did not, we could not love God and God would be unjust. would
Dec 29, 8:07 PM
Lisa C: We can pray that Jesus gets to everyone
Dec 29, 8:07 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): grace is key and acceptance of it especially
Dec 29, 8:08 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): How can we live out the Fruits of the Spirit in the midst of sorrow?
Dec 29, 8:08 PM
Dawn (Guest): Conversion of souls
Dec 29, 8:08 PM
Lisa C: If God is just, and He is, why would He only save some of us if it is His will that all of us be saved?
Dec 29, 8:08 PM
Lisa C: Mother, by accepting sorrow as God’s will
Dec 29, 8:09 PM
Ruth (Guest): That does not mean that we can choose our circumstances, but we can choose within our circumstances what we do. SFdS even points to examples, e.g. of being gracious even though melancholic.
Dec 29, 8:09 PM
Lisa C: God is teaching us and shaping us
Dec 29, 8:09 PM
Carol Ann: we can live out the fruits by practicing gratitude, by unceasing prayer, by always looking to Jesus
Dec 29, 8:09 PM
Dawn (Guest): We could live those out by His grace only I think, by a complete surrendering to Him
Dec 29, 8:11 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): Openness to grace is so important
Dec 29, 8:11 PM
Ruth (Guest): And there are so many people who’ve never even heard of Grace.
Dec 29, 8:11 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): or who don’t have faith at all
Dec 29, 8:12 PM
Carol Ann: our culture is terrible at practicing mercy. we so often see only the exact opposite played out all around us
Dec 29, 8:12 PM
Ruth (Guest): Have you seen Matthew Kelly’s new book: Rediscovering the Saints?
Dec 29, 8:13 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): No
Dec 29, 8:13 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes Carol Ann and this on the increase.
Dec 29, 8:13 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): did you read it
Dec 29, 8:14 PM
Dawn (Guest): sounds like an interesting book Ruth
Dec 29, 8:14 PM
Ruth (Guest): I love the way he weaves together in an imaginary story the psychological, cultural and spiritual movements that led to “St. Dismas” becoming the first saint.
Dec 29, 8:15 PM
Sr Jennifer (Guest): The Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church asserts that “Freedom is the power, rooted in reason and will”. It goes on to say that “God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”
Dec 29, 8:16 PM
Ruth (Guest): And it gives me a model to present to, for example, a forty year old who’s spent more than half of his life in prison, mostly in solitary confinement.
Dec 29, 8:16 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you Sr Jennifer
Dec 29, 8:18 PM
Lisa C: Ruth, yes, he does not have the same opportunity as some. If we are one body in Christ then He has to come with us.
Dec 29, 8:18 PM
Lisa C: We all have to pray for him and everyone else to be saved.
Dec 29, 8:19 PM
Lisa C: Jesus is the first fruit of the Spirit, and we are the second…and there will be many others later.
Dec 29, 8:20 PM
Lisa C: It is not wrong for us to want to save everyone so God will get to them too and give them the chance to accept Him.
Dec 29, 8:21 PM
Dec 29, 8:21 PM
Lisa C: Prayer
Dec 29, 8:21 PM
Lisa C: Ask God
Dec 29, 8:21 PM
Lisa C: Believe God will do it
Dec 29, 8:21 PM
Lisa C: Do not give up
Dec 29, 8:21 PM
Carol Ann: God knows them better than they know themselves, pray that He will reveal Himself in an indisputable way for them
Dec 29, 8:22 PM
Dawn (Guest): our prayers for others send God’s grace upon them and helps to soften their hearts so maybe in this way they will see and accept HIm
Dec 29, 8:22 PM
Sr Jennifer (Guest): Someone has to evangelize, tell them the good news, Mother
Dec 29, 8:22 PM
Lisa C: I think the second they die they will see
Dec 29, 8:22 PM
Lisa C: God loves them so He will get to them
Dec 29, 8:23 PM
Lisa C: Trust Him, He died for everyone
Dec 29, 8:23 PM
Carol Ann: and it may be that at that point they will realize they have actually been following Him all along
Dec 29, 8:23 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): Their hearts are good
Dec 29, 8:23 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes!
Dec 29, 8:23 PM
Sr Jennifer (Guest): For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Dec 29, 8:24 PM
Lisa C: Mother, the thief saw at the time of his death, near Jesus
Dec 29, 8:24 PM
Lisa C: Why do we hear that in the Gospel
Dec 29, 8:24 PM
Carol Ann: to give us hope!
Dec 29, 8:25 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes!
Dec 29, 8:25 PM
Lisa C: To remind us that Jesus will be there when we are dying and we can accept Him even at the end
Dec 29, 8:25 PM
Lisa C: The parable where all the workers got paid the same even the one who worked just a short time at the end
Dec 29, 8:25 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): Yes and St Faustina said that too
Dec 29, 8:25 PM
Lisa C: …and St. Gertrude the great
Dec 29, 8:26 PM
Lisa C: and St. Therese of L. said she prayed a murderer into faith at the last second
Dec 29, 8:26 PM
Lisa C: We can do the work of saving them with Jesus by praying that it happens
Dec 29, 8:26 PM
Carol Ann: there are none so lost as those who will not believe. And i read a similar story about the commander of Auschwitz repenting in prison and being orgien
Dec 29, 8:26 PM
Sr Jennifer (Guest): We have to keep praying for the world
Dec 29, 8:27 PM
Lisa C: Why didn’t the world end when Jesus rose? Because God wants us to help Him do this work.
Dec 29, 8:27 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): definitely!
Dec 29, 8:27 PM
Ruth (Guest): The father says to the prodigal son’s brother, “Everything I have is yours. . . you’ve always been with me, but this one . . . we must celebrate because the lost has been found.. .
Dec 29, 8:27 PM
Sister Susan Marie (Moderator): I hope you each have a happy and HOLY New Year!
Dec 29, 8:27 PM
Carol Ann: Happy New Year Sisters!
Dec 29, 8:28 PM
Lisa C: God Bless all of you praying in the Monastery!
Dec 29, 8:28 PM
Lisa C: God be praised!
Dec 29, 8:28 PM
Carol Ann: God bless you too Lisa!
Dec 29, 8:28 PM
Sr Jennifer (Guest): Blessings to all! Happy New Year. Good night
Dec 29, 8:28 PM
Dawn (Guest): A beautiful hopeful chat tonight! Thank you God bless you all . Good night !
Dec 29, 8:29 PM
Carol Ann: Good night!
Dec 29, 8:29 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, let us all have perfect vision in 2020!
Dec 29, 8:31 PM
Dawn (Guest): Ruth, we are left to close again…haha how lovely is this. tonight chat was graced by the Holy Spirit
Dec 29, 8:32 PM
Ruth (Guest): I am so happy to have found here companions on the journey. Sisters — and a brother — to walk with. Peace and every good thing to you in the New Year.
Dec 29, 8:32 PM
Ruth (Guest): Good night.
Dec 29, 8:34 PM
Dawn (Guest): A beautiful journey here with friends. God bless you, good night