n spite of whatever efforts we make towards ecumenism, St. Francis reminds us of an important point that Protestants (and us) “remain in irreconcilable contradiction on the meaning of the words of institution of the Eucharist.” Why is this so important? Shouldn’t we just be content that we’re all Christians? • Why is it so important for St. Francis to stress that though true and beautiful, Scripture is not sufficient on its own? Call to mind Acts 8:26-40 when Philip asked the eunuch if he understood the
Aug 23, 8:54 AM
VisitationSiste: the passage from Isaiah he was reading, and the eunuch said: “How can I, unless some one guides me?” • Does this then mean that people should not study Scripture privately? • Why is it important to stress the prominence of the Church above Scripture? • Is all of this to say that Scripture is somehow unimportant? Or better yet, could all of this be a way of stressing how important Scripture is given that it needs to carefully be safeguarded by a divinely appointed teacher (the Magisterium)? • While it is
Aug 23, 8:55 AM
VisitationSiste: true that Protestants err about doctrine in certain ways, what qualities do they have that we can benefit from?
Aug 23, 8:55 AM
VisitationSiste: Sunday chat Aug 23 730pm est
Aug 23, 7:25 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Dawn!
Aug 23, 7:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Brian- welcome back too
Aug 23, 7:27 PM
Brian (Guest): Hi Sister Susan and Dawn !!!! Glad to be back !!!!! God Bless You All !!!!!
Aug 23, 7:29 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Sr Susan and Brian!
Aug 23, 7:29 PM
Brian (Guest): Hi Ruth !!!! God Bless You !!!!
Aug 23, 7:29 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Ruth!
Aug 23, 7:29 PM
VisitationSiste: Glad you are here Ruth
Aug 23, 7:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Do you think the topic ok or too risky
Aug 23, 7:31 PM
Ruth Cassin: Thanks, and I actually signed in with the new — provided — password this time, instead of as a guest. It worked. I’ll never remember it though, so I hope the site does.
Aug 23, 7:32 PM
Ruth Cassin: It’s OK, BUT I think SFdS by using the word “irreconcilable” goes too far.
Aug 23, 7:33 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes the days before ecumenism of Vatican 11
Aug 23, 7:34 PM
Ruth Cassin: Modern Scripture scholars are coming closer and closer to agreeing on a lot of things, including what the Eucharist is.
Aug 23, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: of all denominations?
Aug 23, 7:37 PM
Ruth Cassin: And the agreement is, today, at least among the Episcopalians, Lutherans, and R.Catholics, and of course, at least some of the Orthodox, much closer than it was in 1972 when I took a course at the U. of Munich — under the Catholic “Faculty” — ie., Profs approved by the Bishop — on precisely this topic.
Aug 23, 7:38 PM
Brian (Guest): Topic reminded me of Jesus teaching in Luke chapter 9 verses 49-50 . They wanted too through out person who was not with them who was casting out demons in Jesus’s name . Jesus’s response was “Do not stop him , for whoever is not against you is for you . “
Aug 23, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: what is the agreement
Aug 23, 7:38 PM
Dawn (Guest): Brian, you were evangelical before moving into the church?
Aug 23, 7:40 PM
Ruth Cassin: Basically that the transubstantiation is exactly what Jesus intended, that the Bread and Wine BECOME the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ — NOT just a symbol.
Aug 23, 7:41 PM
VisitationSiste: I had not known it was now accepted so widely Praise God!
Aug 23, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: Hello Karma
Aug 23, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: Why is it so important for St. Francis to stress that though true and beautiful, Scripture is not sufficient on its own? Call to mind Acts 8:26-40 when Philip asked the eunuch if he understood the passage from Isaiah he was reading, and the eunuch said: “How can I, unless some one guides me?”
Aug 23, 7:43 PM
Brian (Guest): It was many Protestant Friends and their Great Faith and Trust in God that brought me eventually back to the Catholic Church that I grew up in . Many people from many different denominations helped me along this Journey back to Jesus !!!!! I Love Them All and Am Greatful too God for their Witness too me when I was living in darkness away from God !!!!!
Aug 23, 7:44 PM
Ruth Cassin: The Episcopal Mass looks more like pre-Vatican II than most R. Catholic Masses do today: the words of the consecration are exactly the same. The people kneel at the altar rail, covered with a “table cloth” in some cases, to receive Holy Communion on the tongue. An altar server moves along with the priest holding a golden “patern(?)” — looking like a mirror with a handle — under the communicant’s chin.
Aug 23, 7:47 PM
Ruth Cassin: Yes, Brian, there are many people, even some who never were Catholic who find their way to the Catholic Church through the powerful witness of non-Catholic Christians, even through some Christians who are hostile to the Catholic Church.
Aug 23, 7:47 PM
VisitationSiste: Years ago I unwittingly went to an Episopalian Mass and did not know it was not Catholic except for a few words that seemed a bit different- but what part of the liturgy that was I do not remember
Aug 23, 7:48 PM
Ruth Cassin: Sometimes their liturgical calendars are a bit out of sync with ours, too.
Aug 23, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: Scripture is key but there is also tradition and Tradition
Aug 23, 7:51 PM
Dawn (Guest): amazing Christian witness Brian!!
Aug 23, 7:51 PM
Ruth Cassin: I know one R. Catholic priest, who, with the approval of BOTH the R. Catholic and the Orthodox (I’m not sure I know or remember exactly WHICH Orthodox) Bishop has or had when I was in Denver, faculty to celebrate in BOTH Rites.
Aug 23, 7:52 PM
VisitationSiste: Might be byzantine rite?
Aug 23, 7:54 PM
Ruth Cassin: I was visiting The Community of the Beatitudes at the time. The priest was of that community, which follow many of the traditions of the Carmelites. They where the white habit with brown floor length scapular.
Aug 23, 7:54 PM
Karma Dharma: Yes, a Roman rite priest can become virtual with an Eastern rite community but not orthodox. The Orthodox Church forbids non Orthodox from receiving in their Church.
Aug 23, 7:55 PM
Ruth Cassin: Yes, sister, I think so. We attended once. Very long, lots of bowing, many icons in the room.
Aug 23, 7:56 PM
Guest6721 (Guest): Good evening everyone. I’m sorry I am joining in a bit late.
Aug 23, 7:56 PM
VisitationSiste: Welcome!
Aug 23, 7:56 PM
VisitationSiste: We were moving to whether Scripture is sufficient on its own or doi we need to be guided with it
Aug 23, 7:57 PM
Brian (Guest): These last several months working back in the Hospital with some of the Children of People I worked with 35 years ago has been quite a journey . Our Bible Study Wed Night shifted too Zoom and we have many more participants from all different denominations . It my day off Soo I have been able too participate !!!!! Amazing discussion and teaching with each other !!!! We finished Luke and are now going through Acts !!!! On Vacation this week Soo I should be able too attend tonight and next Sunday before return
Aug 23, 7:58 PM
Dawn (Guest): I am thankful for the guidance of the church
Aug 23, 7:59 PM
VisitationSiste: For prayer I feel ok on my own but for studies I would want guidance
Aug 23, 7:59 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes
Aug 23, 7:59 PM
Ruth Cassin: There’s more than one form of Orthodoxy though. But I think you are right: Byzantine Rite. At St. John’s U. in Jamaica Queens we once had a Mass — at which we were welcome to participate, including receiving Holy Communion, celebrated by a priest of another Rite in the way they typically do. I don’t think I took any notes on exactly WHICH it was. That was in the early ’60’s before the Second Vatican Council produced any documents for the public.
Aug 23, 8:02 PM
Brian (Guest): It helps Soo much too attend Daily Mass and too Study Gods Word with others !!!! Remember after Jesus would teach a Parable too larger Group , he would discuss in more depth the teaching in smaller group with disciples !!!!
Aug 23, 8:03 PM
Ruth Cassin: The Divine Office resembles and builds upon the ancient Jewish daily Psalm prayers in the Siddur.
Aug 23, 8:04 PM
VisitationSiste: what is siddur
Aug 23, 8:05 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Everyone!
Aug 23, 8:05 PM
Brian (Guest): In our area Catholic Church encourages Men and Women to join small Prayer and Sharer Groups !!!! Other denominations have similar small group studies with various names !!!!
Aug 23, 8:06 PM
Carol Ann: Small groups are so essential to the Christian life
Aug 23, 8:06 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi carol Ann! Yes I camwe to my vocation thru a Scripture prayer group
Aug 23, 8:07 PM
Carol Ann: Me too!
Aug 23, 8:07 PM
Ruth Cassin: Yes, the “official” prayer of the Church is the Mass and the Divine Office. The Mass is the highest form of prayer. Even though I tried to pray WITH Masses posted on line (I don’t have TV) daily during the Pandemic Lockdown, it was painful to miss the actual presence and receiving Holy Communion.
Aug 23, 8:07 PM
Brian (Guest): Hi Carol Ann Karmaand Guest !!!God Bless You All !!!!!
Aug 23, 8:07 PM
Ruth Cassin: Hi Carol Ann!
Aug 23, 8:08 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Carol Ann! how are you doing in your area?
Aug 23, 8:09 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Ruth! I find I am delighted with my new routine of 6:30 Daily Mass followed by morning prayer. Before the pandemic and livestreaming I was mostly unable to attend daily Mass
Aug 23, 8:10 PM
Ruth Cassin: And of course, warm greetings, also to all others “present” Sr. Susan, Dawn, Brian, Karma, Betty? (6721) and viewers.
Aug 23, 8:10 PM
VisitationSiste: Is this a valid question: Why is it important to stress the prominence of the Church above Scripture?
Aug 23, 8:10 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Dawn! We are smoked out. The sky is very dark, and we’re all oversleeping our alarms because it is so dark
Aug 23, 8:11 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes!
Aug 23, 8:11 PM
Carol Ann: I think the fires are much closer to you?
Aug 23, 8:11 PM
Ruth Cassin: I don’t think it is a valid question. It should be: the prominence of the interpretation of Scripture by the Church over the interpretation by individuals not guided by the teachings of the Church.
Aug 23, 8:12 PM
Dawn (Guest): we are surrounded. some towns near by being evacuated. but we are safe here in this town so far
Aug 23, 8:13 PM
VisitationSiste: I like the way you phrased it Ruth!
Aug 23, 8:13 PM
VisitationSiste: So the fires are near you then?
Aug 23, 8:13 PM
Carol Ann: Oh Dawn, that is so frightening, I remember far too well what it was like for us when the Thomas Fire chased us all around
Aug 23, 8:13 PM
Brian (Guest): Many Prayers for you Dawn and Carol Ann !!! God Bless You and Your Communities !!!!!
Aug 23, 8:14 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you
Aug 23, 8:14 PM
Carol Ann: Thank you Brian!
Aug 23, 8:14 PM
Ruth Cassin: Glad to hear that you are safe. Stay safe! I’ve thought you might have to stay indoors because of smoke pollution. I’ve been thinking of you and praying for you — and for those impacted directly by the fires.
Aug 23, 8:15 PM
Dawn (Guest): CA is covered by smoke and fire, probably more in northern CA. yes staying indoors
Aug 23, 8:15 PM
Carol Ann: We are supposed to stay indoors because there are no N95 masks available. But we all still went to outdoor Mass
Aug 23, 8:16 PM
Susan Athaide: Hi . Susan from Australia .
Aug 23, 8:16 PM
Ruth Cassin: I remember when I was in Idaho one time, and in Denver, smoke from fires very far away being distressing.
Aug 23, 8:16 PM
Carol Ann: Hi Susan!
Aug 23, 8:16 PM
Ruth Cassin: Hi Susan.
Aug 23, 8:17 PM
VisitationSiste: Welcome back Susan
Aug 23, 8:17 PM
Brian (Guest): Hi Susan ! God Bless You !!!
Aug 23, 8:17 PM
VisitationSiste: could all of this be a way of stressing how important Scripture is given that it needs to carefully be safeguarded by a divinely appointed teacher (the Magisterium)?
Aug 23, 8:17 PM
Susan Athaide: 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾💐💐💐god bless all of you
Aug 23, 8:17 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Susan!
Aug 23, 8:18 PM
Carol Ann: Yes Sr, Susan. I am horrified by the dase of the priest in Detroit who, through no fault of his own, discovered he was notvactuallyba priest
Aug 23, 8:18 PM
Dawn (Guest): very well stated Sr Susan. and thanks be to God we have the Church to do so
Aug 23, 8:19 PM
Ruth Cassin: One time only a few years ago when I was camping alone in a closed (that is, gate open, no charge off season) campsite in Vermont I began wondering if there were other campers there because I could smell wood smoke. The next day I learned that the smoke was from a forest fire in Canada.
Aug 23, 8:20 PM
Dawn (Guest): I heard of this priest. Im not sure of anything that is in the news anymore. I can’t imagine it is so, what they are reporting!
Aug 23, 8:20 PM
VisitationSiste: I had not heard of this priest
Aug 23, 8:21 PM
Karma Dharma: He watched a video of his baptism which he realized was invalid because the words used were we instead of I.
Aug 23, 8:22 PM
Carol Ann: That the priest who baptized him did not use the correct form and so the Baptism was invalid and so no other sacrament was valid either. He rectified it when he found out, but what about all the sacraments he performed those three years ?
Aug 23, 8:23 PM
VisitationSiste: good question!
Aug 23, 8:24 PM
Karma Dharma: I have a question if someone is interested in the French School of Spirituality where is the best place to start
Aug 23, 8:24 PM
VisitationSiste: odd though because even a layperson can baptize another and the formula is very simple I believe
Aug 23, 8:24 PM
VisitationSiste: St Francis de Sales Introductuion to the Devout Life
Aug 23, 8:24 PM
Brian (Guest): We see in Scripture also how critical the Holy Spirit filled believer can be to explain Scripture . Philips encounter with the Eunich and his ability too teach with the Power of the Holy Spirit !!!! Soo powerfully that Eunich was able to truly know that Jesus is the Son of God !!!!
Aug 23, 8:24 PM
VisitationSiste: or Cardinal Berulle’s works
Aug 23, 8:24 PM
Susan Athaide: I love reading the word of god these days . I find it comforting and consoling
Aug 23, 8:25 PM
VisitationSiste: There are various schools of French spirituality I think
Aug 23, 8:25 PM
VisitationSiste: St John Eudes on the Heart of Christ; St John Vianney on the Eucharist
Aug 23, 8:27 PM
Ruth Cassin: How, strange! I’m not sure an “imperfection” in the WORDS if the intent is clear, would invalidate the sacrament. I’ve even known of a non-believer but caring physician baptizing a dying baby in the NICU because he knew that the parents would wish their child to be baptized.
Aug 23, 8:27 PM
Brian (Guest): Please Pray for my Son Mitchell . He is having very serious eye surgery tommorow morning at 915 am !!!!
Aug 23, 8:27 PM
Karma Dharma: What is the basic difference between the French School and the Ignatian
Aug 23, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes that is also allowed so I am confused a bit about that priests case where can I read about it
Aug 23, 8:27 PM
Carol Ann: I will pray Brian
Aug 23, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: That’s a good research question Karma!
Aug 23, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes prayers!
Aug 23, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: St Ignatius was followed in France as well
Aug 23, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: I can’t answer the question without a little study
Aug 23, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: I think it would also factor in what era one is referring to- spiritualities change
Aug 23, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: anyone else have an answer?
Aug 23, 8:29 PM
Karma Dharma: The Archdiocese of Detroit website. The formula was We baptized not I. The person baptizing is to represent Christ.
Aug 23, 8:29 PM
Brian (Guest): Thank You All !!!! God Bless You All !!!!! Keep Shining for Jesus !!!!! Prayers for All of You !!!!!!
Aug 23, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: God bless all of you and so glad you all were here. Praying, Brian!
Aug 23, 8:30 PM
Carol Ann: Thank you so much Sister!
Aug 23, 8:31 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you everyone. God bless you all!! thank you Sr for this chat group
Aug 23, 8:31 PM
Ruth Cassin: Brian, I’ll offer up my discomfort from a bone marrow biopsy I have tomorrow morning along with my prayers that your son’s surgery go well.
Aug 23, 8:32 PM
Carol Ann: Stay in touch pleasevDawn so we know where you are
Aug 23, 8:33 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you sll for prayers and your ocncern.I mostly think of the families that are evacuating.
Aug 23, 8:34 PM
Carol Ann: so very difficult
Aug 23, 8:34 PM
Dawn (Guest): I will. goodnight all~
Aug 23, 8:34 PM
Carol Ann: The angels watch over you!
Aug 23, 8:34 PM
Ruth Cassin: Yes, especially with your challenging situation — the fires.
Aug 23, 8:37 PM
Ruth Cassin: And the Church IS the Body of Christ, too. So the “we” is understandable. We are many parts, persons, but all one body.