What do you think of this description of purgatory as both a place of torment and quasi-paradise? Does it make you hopeful? Does it make you less nervous about possibly going there? How can we ensure a more regular practice of praying for the poor souls in purgatory? What can we do now to shave off time in purgatory or avoid going there altogether? Why do you think emphasis on the needs of the souls of purgatory has lost focus in today’s spiritual practices? What does it mean that the souls
Nov 1, 6:55 PM
VisitationSiste: What does it mean that the souls in purgatory “are purified voluntarily”?
Nov 1, 6:55 PM
VisitationSiste: Sun chat Nov 1 730pm est
Nov 1, 7:26 PM
VisitationSiste: Welcome Dorothy!
Nov 1, 7:26 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Hi, Sister!
Nov 1, 7:26 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I loved this reading this week….not like I don’t like the others, but this one really touched me deeply.
Nov 1, 7:27 PM
VisitationSiste: We took a little break from the letters this week to chat about purgatory but will return to the other letters next week
Nov 1, 7:27 PM
VisitationSiste: Glad this did! In what way?
Nov 1, 7:28 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I never thought of the promise purgatory offers. Someday I will be with the Lord.
Nov 1, 7:28 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes- one is saved!
Nov 1, 7:28 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I never thought of purgatory with hope before. It even made the suffering more understandable and less frightening.
Nov 1, 7:29 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): Hi,this is Simone.. I signed in as a guest, cause for some reason the usual sign in did not work for me today.
Nov 1, 7:29 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Sr Susan! and Dorothy!
Nov 1, 7:29 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Any separation is from God is painful, the only problem then is that I no longer have the ability to change my experience.
Nov 1, 7:29 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Simone!
Nov 1, 7:29 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: and now I can understand the importance of our prayers for the souls in purgatory.
Nov 1, 7:29 PM
VisitationSiste: I guess it was not emphasized because certainly St Francis de Sales wrote about it so long ago, but we don’t often learn certain things when younger
Nov 1, 7:29 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Hi Dawn and Simone!
Nov 1, 7:29 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): Hi Dawn, Hi Sr. Susan and Hi Dorothy
Nov 1, 7:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Guest 6158
Nov 1, 7:30 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I know I find it easier just to think of the pain of punishment rather than the pain of separation.
Nov 1, 7:30 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): I agree with Dorothy. The reading was great this week.
Nov 1, 7:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Timely too
Nov 1, 7:30 PM
Dawn (Guest): this is a perfect topic for this evening. thank you
Nov 1, 7:30 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Truly.
Nov 1, 7:30 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): Yes, well timed Sister
Nov 1, 7:31 PM
Dawn (Guest): is this Brian?
Nov 1, 7:31 PM
VisitationSiste: We can thank the webmaster for that- I’ll thank him
Nov 1, 7:31 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): Purgatory sounded to me a lot like holiness though. We had the Beatitudes in our Readings today…. and somehow they speak exactly about this attitude as SFDS describes it here too
Nov 1, 7:31 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I’ve always prayed for the poor souls in purgatory, but never really felt the connection…not saying I didn’t think I’d end up there too.
Nov 1, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: It’s interesting how the first question is put- torment and quasi-paradise
Nov 1, 7:32 PM
Dawn (Guest): torment is a strong description
Nov 1, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: I think its our own desire to see God that is a part of that
Nov 1, 7:33 PM
VisitationSiste: About the Beatitudes too- how do you relate that ?
Nov 1, 7:33 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: The anticipation of union with God is pretty powerful, especially since we’d have no more part in our entry into the kingdom.
Nov 1, 7:33 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): I found it a beautiful place though. Being absolutely filled with the desire to be with HIM. no earthly distractions
Nov 1, 7:34 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Absolutely! and I believe that is why the recognition of that separation becomes so extreme.
Nov 1, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes we really depend on others, totoally dependent at that point= on the sIaints and on early people
Nov 1, 7:35 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): as for the Beatitudes – they all express our internal “set up” to be holy.. to be truly God’s – to leave behind all self desires and live solemnly for HIM and to be with Him.. and of course His kingdom
Nov 1, 7:35 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: That’s why I believe it becomes so important to live the beatitudes while we can, leaving others as witnesses to help us.
Nov 1, 7:35 PM
VisitationSiste: Ah.. yes and in purgatory we are living for Him and I beleieve- is it so- we can intercede for others still?
Nov 1, 7:36 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Do you mean we could intercede for others but not for ourselves?
Nov 1, 7:36 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): So.. souls in purgatory can intercede for us.. but not for themselves.. right? I am not sure if I understand that.
Nov 1, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: I don’t know for sure- I have to look this up
Nov 1, 7:37 PM
Dawn (Guest): He says The souls in purgatory are in a constant state of union with God. Surely I can not imagine this while I am here
Nov 1, 7:37 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Wow, this is so amazing! There is so much hope in this.
Nov 1, 7:37 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): I agree Dorothy.. so much hope
Nov 1, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: From a Catholic site: As we pray this month for the holy souls in purgatory a question may arise: Can the souls in purgatory pray for us — and do they?This is a question that I have been asked recently. I always assumed that the answer was “yes;” but, after doing some research in the Catholic Encyclopedia I see that the question has been open to opinion, or least it used to be before the sixteenth century. There is no definitive teaching of the Church, however, on the subject; even the ordinary magisterium,
Nov 1, 7:38 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I needed to read this a few times before I even got it…sort of, but then it was so new to me, I immediately forgot it!
Nov 1, 7:39 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): thank you Sr. Susan.. I am glad that this is the answer. Cause it always confused me that they can pray for us but not for themselves.
Nov 1, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: Often when a friend or relative dies we do assume they can pray for us but that is if they are in heaven. We need to pray them in, sometimes
Nov 1, 7:40 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): That’s how I would see it too.
Nov 1, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: How can we ensure a more regular practice of praying for the poor souls in purgatory?
Nov 1, 7:40 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: But since they are in constant union with God, why wouldn’t they be able to intercede?
Nov 1, 7:42 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): My Mom passed away 17 years ago. She re-entered the Catholic Church 3 days before her death. I was a protestant at this time.. in the Catholic Church now since 5 years. Still.. I cannot pray for my Mom’s soul. I am quite sure that my Mom was nowhere near sainthood when she died.. but it frustrates me that I am kind of praying into the ‘ vacuum”.. Do my prayers make a difference? What if she is already in heaven? This really troubles me
Nov 1, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: If she is in heaven I think God applies the prayers to others
Nov 1, 7:43 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: During the Mass we have the prayer of the faithful, and during the Consecration, we as a Church prayer for the dead, also in the Liturgy of the Hours, as well as, just in remembrance each day.
Nov 1, 7:43 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): Dorothy.. I think souls in purgatory LONG for constant union with GOD.. but do know they need more cleansing.. at least that’s how I understood it.
Nov 1, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: in a sense as no prayer is wasted
Nov 1, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: During Nov one can pray in a special way for the souls, either formal prayers or one’s own
Nov 1, 7:44 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): I know.. no prayer is wasted.. but I never ever felt the Spirit inviting me to do so. There is a blockage in me somewhat. I am not sure if it is psychologically or theologically
Nov 1, 7:44 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): Where can I find formal prayers?
Nov 1, 7:45 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: but in the reading, it is said that they are already in union with God. They know they will be with Him at His choosing, so I would imagine they can pray for us.
Nov 1, 7:46 PM
VisitationSiste: Susan Tassone is an author who writes prayers and meditations and such about purgatory
Nov 1, 7:46 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: There are Catholic web-sites with formal prayers, but I don’t have the addresses right now. I just google for certain prayers & that’s how I found St. Francis de Sales.
Nov 1, 7:47 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): But how can you feel lonely when you are in full union with GOD? I just get glimpses sometimes in my prayer times, and I cannot imagine feeling lonely when GOD unites Himself to my Spirit
Nov 1, 7:47 PM
VisitationSiste: https://books.google.com/books?id=dmj8CwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=susan+tassone&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjeiMau0eLsAhWRg-AKHZ5tBFcQ6AEwA3oECAQQAg#v=onepage&q=susan%20tassone&f=false
Nov 1, 7:47 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): the readings say.. the souls feel lonely
Nov 1, 7:47 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): Thanks Dorothy
Nov 1, 7:47 PM
VisitationSiste: also https://books.google.com/books?id=m2j8CwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=susan+tassone&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjeiMau0eLsAhWRg-AKHZ5tBFcQ6AEwBHoECAUQAg#v=onepage&q=susan%20tassone&f=false
Nov 1, 7:47 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): oh.. thanks Sr. Susan..
Nov 1, 7:48 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): are you the author of this book Sr. Susan?
Nov 1, 7:48 PM
VisitationSiste: no it isa lay woman I think
Nov 1, 7:48 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I understand it to mean, they are in union, but they know they have not achieved the beatific vision…complete union in heaven & that hunger must be overwhelming, but they are not in hell, so they know there’s hope.
Nov 1, 7:49 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): I totally agree Dorothy
Nov 1, 7:49 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): I actually feel that hunger sometimes.
Nov 1, 7:49 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): this overwhelming desire to be in union with holiness
Nov 1, 7:50 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): and by that I mean of course GOD
Nov 1, 7:50 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I believe it’s a great gift to feel this hunger.
Nov 1, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: I agree!
Nov 1, 7:50 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Gift & blessing!
Nov 1, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: What can we do now to shave off time in purgatory or avoid going there altogether?
Nov 1, 7:51 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): I agree, and I love this pain in my heart
Nov 1, 7:51 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Live+Jesus, we must bring the kingdom to reality while we live. Live the Gospels…
Nov 1, 7:51 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): I try to submit to His holy will as much as I can. Living a life of detachment and try to live ” poor in spirit”
Nov 1, 7:52 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): I am an Evangelist by heart.. but I found that in the last 5 years, where God has really brought me on my knees, I have reached more hearts than ever before. And it was all so gentle and quiet
Nov 1, 7:52 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I try to just do what Jesus taught and put the rest in His hands.
Nov 1, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: Heroic virtue brings us to heaven, martyrdom also but otherwise I do not know how we could know until we die what happens
Nov 1, 7:53 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): please explain.. heroic virtue
Nov 1, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: Virtue that is very consistent and beyond what logic or common sense would think adequate
Nov 1, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: Practised over many years
Nov 1, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Carol Anne
Nov 1, 7:54 PM
Dawn (Guest): to question, I believe we can do acts of reparation. and offer our suffering. pray very much for holiness and then learn to do whatever he tells you
Nov 1, 7:54 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): I am still working to fully understand ” offering up our suffering”.. but I realize that this is not the topic tonight
Nov 1, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: HEROIC VIRTUE
Definition
The performance of extraordinary virtuous actions with readiness and over a period of time. The moral virtues are exercised with ease, while faith, hope, and charity are practiced to an eminent degree. The presence of such virtues is required by the Church as the first step toward canonization. The person who has practiced heroic virtue is declared to be Venerable, and is called a “Servant of God.”
Nov 1, 7:55 PM
Dawn (Guest): I will look up more about Heroic virtue Sr. thank you
Nov 1, 7:55 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): very interesting.. will look that up for sure
Nov 1, 7:56 PM
VisitationSiste: Offering up our troubles to God is a great way to remember that, in our faith, suffering is never wasted or meaningless when it’s united with Christ’s suffering on the Cross, for atonement for sins.
Nov 1, 7:57 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: In the little annoyances that I endure, I offer them together with the sufferings of Jesus and I offer them for my parents, relatives and friends.
Nov 1, 7:57 PM
VisitationSiste: Why do you think emphasis on the needs of the souls of purgatory has lost focus in today’s spiritual practices?
Nov 1, 7:58 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): because the world is such a mess.. and also out of sight – out of mind somewhat.. in a way.. everything here on earth was done – what else can we do?
Nov 1, 7:58 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: You’re right. It seems to have fallen into the realm of misunderstanding, to me.
Nov 1, 7:58 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): we have lost the vision that the Church is not only the visible church here on earth.. At least I often loose that vision
Nov 1, 7:59 PM
Dawn (Guest): Our priests not talking about? I cant recall the last time I heard purgatory mentioned. confusing
Nov 1, 7:59 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Today it is not easy to think of suffering for something that is loved and who loves us. I think the pandemic may have brought our attention back to that.
Nov 1, 7:59 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): well.. today it was mentioned in the homily
Nov 1, 8:00 PM
VisitationSiste: purgatory was?
Nov 1, 8:00 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): Yes, purgatory
Nov 1, 8:01 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: It’s also hard to think of suffering that is happening outside of our view. The world is having a hard enough time dealing with the suffering it is experiencing.
Nov 1, 8:01 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): Father took the liberty to preach on the ALL Saints Day and not on the gospel readings
Nov 1, 8:02 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): I agree Dorothy. being bombarded every day with so much suffering in the visible world.. I catch myself, that I kind of do not want to be bothered now on top of that with the invisible world. Although. I do know that everything GOD asks from us is indeed a gift to us. .so I do not know why I still resist doing it.
Nov 1, 8:03 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I am human and I do the same thing. What I need to keep reminding myself is that I need to be Jesus’ hands, feet and heart in the world simply for Him and not for the pay-off.
Nov 1, 8:04 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): Yes.
Nov 1, 8:06 PM
Dawn (Guest): Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil; May God rebuke him, we humbly pray; And do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen.
Nov 1, 8:06 PM
VisitationSiste: What does it mean that the souls in purgatory “are purified voluntarily”?
Nov 1, 8:06 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Amen. It’s hard and a constant challenge that will never end…I hope.
Nov 1, 8:07 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): well.. it sounds that they are not forced. There is a process of cooperation
Nov 1, 8:07 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): they lean in – in this cleansing process – although it seems quite painful
Nov 1, 8:07 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I took that to mean that since they already seek union with God, they willing endure whatever purifications necessary to realize that union.
Nov 1, 8:08 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): well said Dorothy
Nov 1, 8:08 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): but that’s exactly our road to holiness here on earth too.. so it is basically a continuation of this process here
Nov 1, 8:08 PM
Dawn (Guest): As we would say yes to that God asks of us, I dont suppose we could be in purgatory if we has not agreed
Nov 1, 8:08 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I love the way you said it, “they lean in”….YES! they certainly do.
Nov 1, 8:09 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): and Dawn.. yes.. the very fact that we are in purgatory means that we have found a YES to God already.
Nov 1, 8:09 PM
VisitationSiste: Since we are saved and now only would do the complete Will of God- ?
Nov 1, 8:09 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Yep, I totally believe that the process of conversion continues even after we’re no longer walking the earth.
Nov 1, 8:10 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I think St. Augustine said that conversion continues until 15 minutes after we die…
Nov 1, 8:10 PM
Dawn (Guest): is it possible to be in purgatory and then somehow to lose being there?
Nov 1, 8:10 PM
Dawn (Guest): this is intersting thought Dorothy
Nov 1, 8:10 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): interesting question Dawn.. my gut feeling says no
Nov 1, 8:11 PM
Dawn (Guest): I cant seem to spell tonight. sorry
Nov 1, 8:11 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): the quote from St. Augustine confuses me.. since there is no time and space in the realm of souls I thought
Nov 1, 8:12 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I don’t think that’s an option. The Lord has brought you there to complete your purification and once there, that is all you would want. I don’t believe the devil has any place there.
Nov 1, 8:12 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): I agree. I don’t think that anyone would step out of purgatory.
Nov 1, 8:12 PM
VisitationSiste: Where is the quote in full from St Augustine
Nov 1, 8:12 PM
Dawn (Guest): What does it mean that the souls in purgatory “are purified voluntarily”? if it is voluntary then can it also be not, whike we are there?
Nov 1, 8:13 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): interesting also.. that the enemy has no access to purgatory. I never thought about that.
Nov 1, 8:13 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I think St. Augustine was just trying to tell us that we are still in God’s hands even if we did not live a perfect life here on earth.
Nov 1, 8:14 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Our constant reaching out for God, I believe, saves us from complete separation or hell.
Nov 1, 8:14 PM
Guest6158 (Guest): Ladies.. it was a delight to chat with you. Unfortunately I have to close now.. Blessings on all of you.. and I hope we can chat next Sunday again.
Nov 1, 8:14 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Have a blessed and safe week.
Nov 1, 8:14 PM
VisitationSiste: Thanks for being here!
Nov 1, 8:15 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: These chats are really wonderful.
Nov 1, 8:16 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you everyone and Sr Susan. Goodnight! prayers
Nov 1, 8:16 PM
Dawn (Guest): HI Carol Ann, are youstill here?
Nov 1, 8:16 PM
VisitationSiste: Glad you enjoy them- it all depends on the participants!!
Nov 1, 8:17 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Absolutely!
Nov 1, 8:19 PM
VisitationSiste: Sign off early tonight but God bless and be back next week!
Nov 1, 8:19 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I hope to be here next week, but I’m still here???
Nov 1, 8:19 PM
Dawn (Guest): I did not realize it is early
Nov 1, 8:20 PM
Dawn (Guest): Carol Ann , are you here??
Nov 1, 8:20 PM
Dawn (Guest): no she signed out. Dorothy are you still here?
Nov 1, 8:20 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I always had questions about purgatory and indulgences, since there is no time in eternity???
Nov 1, 8:21 PM
Dawn (Guest): mostly I learned tonight I know little about purgatory!
Nov 1, 8:22 PM
Dawn (Guest): sometimes I have the belief we can do time in purgatory here. I think this comes from St Teresa Avila
Nov 1, 8:22 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I was given answers, but, even as a child they didn’t make sense to me.
Nov 1, 8:22 PM
Dawn (Guest): if the Saints wrote, they left us much
Nov 1, 8:23 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: I haven’t read much from Teresa, but I often felt that way.
Nov 1, 8:23 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: It’s so hard to find everything & often depending on when they lived, their ideas may be slanted this way or that.
Nov 1, 8:25 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Well, let’s spend the week praying for God to help us understand. I am going to sign off too. Have a blessed week, Dawn. Hope to chat with you next week. Good night.
Nov 1, 8:25 PM
Dawn (Guest): https://carmelourladysdovecote.wordpress.com/2013/08/13/st-teresa-of-avila-speaks-of-the-holy-souls/
St Teresa of Avila speaks of the Holy Souls | Carmel, Garden of God
Nov 1, 8:25 PM
Dorothy Solarino-Berman: Thanks. I’ll look into it.
Nov 1, 8:25 PM
Dawn (Guest): I will read this tonight. Goodnight!
Nov 1, 8:35 PM
Guest6574 (Guest): Goodnight
Nov 1, 8:36 PM
Dawn (Guest): goodnight 6574
Nov 1, 8:38 PM
Dawn (Guest): As to the Church Suffering in purgatory, St. Thomas Aquinas teaches that they are not able to know, by themselves, our prayers; however, it is piously believed, and taught by St. Alphonsus Liguori, that God makes our prayers known to them – not directly, as they are deprived of the beatific vision until they enter Heaven, but by infusing this knowledge into their souls.