St Francis emphasizes that we should not desire and ask for temptations and struggles to help us grow in holiness. Why not?
2. Why is complaining about our miseries more an act of rebellion rather than impatience, as St. Francis describes?
3. How can we get in the habit of regularly focus on and abandoning ourselves to God’s will?
Feb 7, 1:30 PM
VisitationSiste: 4. What is the “greatest perfection of Christian life”?
5. Discuss St. Francis’s analogy regarding abandoning to divine providence, which he describes as a child who eats what is provided in order to grow.
6. St. Francis advises this woman to practice a “gentle acquiescence in God’s will” five times a day, including an examination of conscience for this virtue. If you were to do this, what would it look like? Could this be carried out to grow in other virtues in one’s life?
Feb 7, 1:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Sun chat 730pm est Feb 7
Feb 7, 7:29 PM
VisitationSiste: welcome viewers!
Feb 7, 7:30 PM
Simone (Guest): Hello everyone!
Feb 7, 7:30 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Simone!
Feb 7, 7:30 PM
Simone (Guest): Hi Sister Susan!
Feb 7, 7:31 PM
Simone (Guest): It just kicked me out.. Am I back in Sister?
Feb 7, 7:31 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes you are in
Feb 7, 7:31 PM
Simone (Guest): phew
Feb 7, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: How did you get kicked out??
Feb 7, 7:32 PM
VisitationSiste: Hope you stay in!
Feb 7, 7:32 PM
Simone (Guest): well… I probably have to reframe that. I clicked a button.. and all of a sudden, it said I had to sign in again.
Feb 7, 7:33 PM
Simone (Guest): Of course I stay in.
Feb 7, 7:33 PM
VisitationSiste: I don’t know if the other viewers will sign in- should we waitor start?
Feb 7, 7:34 PM
Simone (Guest): Can you quickly wait please? Cause now I also see that I cannot pull up the text for this week. Let me find it quickly. OK?
Feb 7, 7:34 PM
VisitationSiste: No rush!
Feb 7, 7:37 PM
Simone (Guest): so, I got it printed now..
Feb 7, 7:37 PM
Simone (Guest): I think that people are watching Super Bowl tonight. Unfortunately I could not care less.
Feb 7, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: I have never watched it
Feb 7, 7:37 PM
Simone (Guest): Me neither. but that stays between you and me
Feb 7, 7:37 PM
VisitationSiste: and whoever reads the chat! shall I delete?
Feb 7, 7:38 PM
VisitationSiste: First Q 1. St Francis emphasizes that we should not desire and ask for temptations and struggles to help us grow in holiness. Why not?
Feb 7, 7:38 PM
Simone (Guest): you are so sweet. No – do not delete. The whole world can know that I rather talk to you than watch Super Bowl
Feb 7, 7:39 PM
Simone (Guest): well.. he says.. we are not lacking temptations anyways
Feb 7, 7:39 PM
Simone (Guest): I guess if we keep our eyes and our heart open . we can find a lot of situations, where our flesh wants to react – instead our united heart with Jesus
Feb 7, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: and it might be considered presumptious, unless we are being inspired truly to ask for a way to as you say unite with the Lord
Feb 7, 7:40 PM
VisitationSiste: I might ask for ways to make reparation but to ask for a temptation? Never thought of it- I try to get away from temptations
Feb 7, 7:41 PM
Simone (Guest): So, I finished the paragraph..it seems to be in the context of ” uniting my will with GOd’s will” – also.. this might be a hidden area of pride – if we want to run ahead ” in holiness”
Feb 7, 7:41 PM
VisitationSiste: true, pride can enter in here, but we’d be humbled rather quickly if we could not handle what was sent in answer to our request
Feb 7, 7:41 PM
Simone (Guest): well.. in answer to your question.. I have heard several people pray ” Lord teach me patience”. But when you pray this, you are indirectly inviting a “temptation” – namely to be impatient.. otherwise you could not learn it
Feb 7, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: That’s interesting- someone just said the same thing to me 2 days ago!
Feb 7, 7:42 PM
Simone (Guest): I think that St. Francis advise is – as always – really good
Feb 7, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: and I have been praying for patience, so…
Feb 7, 7:42 PM
Simone (Guest): use your time to prepare your heart
Feb 7, 7:42 PM
VisitationSiste: guess that message is for me
Feb 7, 7:42 PM
Simone (Guest): Oh.. you did pray for patience? funny
Feb 7, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes, to St Joseph
Feb 7, 7:43 PM
Simone (Guest): oh.. my husband and I are planning to do the consecration to St. Joseph in the spring
Feb 7, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: Wonderful! Do you have Fr Calloway’s book?
Feb 7, 7:43 PM
Simone (Guest): Peter’s ordination will be on the 1st of May ( Lord willing) – the feast day of St. Joseph the worker
Feb 7, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: Beautiful!
Feb 7, 7:44 PM
Simone (Guest): I do have a good book. It is off white ( light yellowish) with St. Joseph in blue on the front..
Feb 7, 7:44 PM
Simone (Guest): sorry- it is downstairs.
Feb 7, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: a special year
Feb 7, 7:44 PM
Simone (Guest): yes it is.. and a much overlooked Saint.
Feb 7, 7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): what’s the role of St. Joseph in Salesian Spirituality?
Feb 7, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: We listened in the refectory the past 2 weeks to talks on St Joseph- current ones from Scott Hahn and Opus Dei priest- quite enlightening- their meditations
Feb 7, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: St Joseph is the patron of our Monasteries
Feb 7, 7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): ooohhh
Feb 7, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: We try to imitate his interior life of silence and his virtue of obedience
Feb 7, 7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): wonderful
Feb 7, 7:46 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Sr Susan and Simone. good discussion in process!
Feb 7, 7:46 PM
Simone (Guest): oh Hi Dawn..
Feb 7, 7:46 PM
VisitationSiste: H Dawn! Glad you are here
Feb 7, 7:46 PM
Simone (Guest): Yes
Feb 7, 7:47 PM
VisitationSiste: here’s some posts: https://visitationspirit.org/2020/12/the-year-of-st-joseph-with-st-francis-de-sales-and-st-jane/
Feb 7, 7:47 PM
VisitationSiste: Q2 2. Why is complaining about our miseries more an act of rebellion rather than impatience, as St. Francis describes?
Feb 7, 7:49 PM
Simone (Guest): It is in a way of saying “I deserve better” and a stepping out of our unity with the will of GOD. It is taking our life in our own hands, rather than surrendering it. Well.. that’s in a way how I understood his advise
Feb 7, 7:50 PM
Simone (Guest): oh.. great links Sr. Susan.. Thank you
Feb 7, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: You’re welcome.
Feb 7, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes when we complasin we are not united with God’s will
Feb 7, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: Although most of us do complain
Feb 7, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: Great area for growth!
Feb 7, 7:51 PM
Simone (Guest): I am really trying to get a hold on this complaining. And it comes out in so many little ways too..
Feb 7, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: we tend to look at things in too worldly a manner
Feb 7, 7:51 PM
Simone (Guest): absolutely
Feb 7, 7:52 PM
VisitationSiste: This would be a tremendous leap in virtue tomove out of that- I might actually think about facing this more deeply during Lent
Feb 7, 7:52 PM
Simone (Guest): I noticed a while ago, that my “complaining’ was a way to connect with others.
Feb 7, 7:52 PM
VisitationSiste: How?
Feb 7, 7:53 PM
Simone (Guest): Well, I noticed that I complained a lot about “little ailments’ – like headaches – or my back hurts – and by sharing this, I tried to connect with him
Feb 7, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: Oh I see- very human- I tend to complain about overwork
Feb 7, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: or not enough time
Feb 7, 7:54 PM
Simone (Guest): Maybe we should substitute these with words of gratitude?
Feb 7, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes I am motivated to work on this issue
Feb 7, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: I agree- gratitude!
Feb 7, 7:55 PM
Simone (Guest): Great
Feb 7, 7:55 PM
Simone (Guest): I think – the way we complain reflects our “theology on suffering”
Feb 7, 7:55 PM
Dawn (Guest): important discussion here
Feb 7, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Dawn- it fits so many of us
Feb 7, 7:56 PM
VisitationSiste: Now theology of suffering- true theology or the way we mite choose to look at suffring?
Feb 7, 7:56 PM
Simone (Guest): do we welcome inconvenience – yes even pain – because we know we owe everything to him.. and he invites us into suffering.. or do I think, that it is God’s job to keep me happy and healthy?
Feb 7, 7:57 PM
Simone (Guest): well.. let’s say the way we integrate God’s role in our suffering. It is not a school of thought – like “Theology of the Body”.. at least I am not aware of it
Feb 7, 7:58 PM
VisitationSiste: It might be in a way- as so many saints sought suffering out of deep love
Feb 7, 7:58 PM
Simone (Guest): I know.. When I became Catholic and I started reading the biographies of the Saints.. I could not believe it. Their suffering was the biggest testimony to me
Feb 7, 7:59 PM
Dawn (Guest): great insight that our complaining may be attempt to connect with others. esp if we are experiencing a spell of lonliness…where we want to fill in the blanks so to speak. to fix it on our own rather than to see God rather being patient
Feb 7, 7:59 PM
Simone (Guest): I think, that we literally NEED pain ( in whatever way) – to start to seek God in areas, where we simply would never go, without the pain
Feb 7, 7:59 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes it is not masochistic but the love is so strong- they move naturally to join the Lord on the Cross
Feb 7, 8:00 PM
Simone (Guest): It is still a mystery to me. all the joining my suffering with His suffering.. and the role of the redemption for the world.. I am reading on it.. but it is still a mystery to me to be honest
Feb 7, 8:00 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes Dawn; we do things unconsciously perhaps lookingh for affection , companionship
Feb 7, 8:00 PM
VisitationSiste: I think it is meant to be Mystery
Feb 7, 8:00 PM
Simone (Guest): well.. this is good news for me
Feb 7, 8:00 PM
VisitationSiste: and mysteries draw us in ever deeper to the source Himself
Feb 7, 8:01 PM
Simone (Guest): if we have patience – to sit with the tension of the unknown..
Feb 7, 8:01 PM
Simone (Guest): We are back to patience again
Feb 7, 8:01 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes!!
Feb 7, 8:01 PM
Dawn (Guest):
Feb 7, 8:01 PM
VisitationSiste: 3. How can we get in the habit of regularly focus on and abandoning ourselves to God’s will?
Feb 7, 8:03 PM
Dawn (Guest): if I experience persecutions often, which I do, this has drawn me to focus more on him. now learning these persecutions are actually mortifications
Feb 7, 8:04 PM
Simone (Guest): what do you mean with “this” Dawn. Do you mean “the habit of regularly focusing ….”?
Feb 7, 8:04 PM
Dawn (Guest): but learning to suffer correctly, this is what brings us closer to Jesus
Feb 7, 8:04 PM
Simone (Guest): Do you achieve that by a regular prayer life?
Feb 7, 8:04 PM
Simone (Guest): yes Dawn.. learning to suffer correctly.. well put
Feb 7, 8:05 PM
Simone (Guest): I can see how persecutions can become mortifications. That shows that you are leaning into God’s will. wonderful!
Feb 7, 8:06 PM
Dawn (Guest): sorry I can not scroll up to see what your question was Simone
Feb 7, 8:06 PM
VisitationSiste: FRom Ruth: To:you Details
1. There are enough temptations and struggles during ordinary life, that we do not need to seek them out. Besides, God knows best how and when to allow these; it is not ours to decide.
2. Complaining about miseries can be more an act of rebellion against God than simple impatience. Tranquility is lacking.
Feb 7, 8:06 PM
Simone (Guest): all good Dawn
Feb 7, 8:07 PM
Simone (Guest): Sister.. I am confused about your last post
Feb 7, 8:07 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you Ruth, good insights
Feb 7, 8:07 PM
Simone (Guest): oh.. I see.. sorry.
Feb 7, 8:08 PM
Simone (Guest): Sister.. can you describe for me please what it means
Feb 7, 8:08 PM
Simone (Guest): to make a particular exercise of gentle acquiescence in God’s will?
Feb 7, 8:09 PM
VisitationSiste: What Ruth said do you mean?
Feb 7, 8:10 PM
VisitationSiste: Ruth is communicating to me by e mail- she can’t get into the site here
Feb 7, 8:10 PM
Simone (Guest): no.. it is part of the next paragraph
Feb 7, 8:10 PM
Simone (Guest): what I wrote.. is a quote from the text
Feb 7, 8:11 PM
Simone (Guest): first and second line of third paragraph
Feb 7, 8:12 PM
VisitationSiste: this? Come, my dear daughter, you must make a particular exercise of gentle acquiescence in God’s will, not only with regard to extraordinary events but chiefly in those little everyday deceptions. Prepare yourself for this in the morning, after dinner when you are saying grace, before and after supper in the evening, and render yourself a strict account of it for a time. But do it with a tranquil and glad heart, and if you happen to fail, humble yourself and begin all over again.
Feb 7, 8:12 PM
Simone (Guest): Yes..
Feb 7, 8:13 PM
Simone (Guest): the first part
Feb 7, 8:13 PM
VisitationSiste: to agree gently to do God’s will, every day in little things
Feb 7, 8:13 PM
VisitationSiste: why he uses deceptions I am not sure
Feb 7, 8:14 PM
VisitationSiste: not to look only for the big things but the everyday stuff we tend to discount is also part of Go will
Feb 7, 8:14 PM
Simone (Guest): hmmm. I guess – with deceptions he could mean – when we are tempted – deceived – to think, that this is too small to bother to align our will with God’s will? not sure.. just an idea
Feb 7, 8:14 PM
Dawn (Guest): does SF mean how…. we can be deceived?
Feb 7, 8:14 PM
VisitationSiste: I think we deceive ourselves into thinking little things don’t count
Feb 7, 8:15 PM
Simone (Guest): yes.
Feb 7, 8:15 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes! Im sure I do this
Feb 7, 8:15 PM
Simone (Guest): and we even do not seek him in these little things.. we are deceived.. If the enemy can’t keep us away from GOD he is always trying to distract our focus, so we do not look at GOD.
Feb 7, 8:16 PM
VisitationSiste: Exactly!
Feb 7, 8:16 PM
VisitationSiste: Good insight
Feb 7, 8:16 PM
Dawn (Guest): Life is a spiritual battlefield
Feb 7, 8:16 PM
VisitationSiste: That is so right Dawn
Feb 7, 8:16 PM
Simone (Guest): it sure is Dawn.. realizing this.. is half of the victory already I find
Feb 7, 8:17 PM
VisitationSiste: Ruth Cassin (rovingruthreturns@gmail.com)To:you Details
2. Trusting that God will lead us to holiness (he says “perfection”) — give us what we need to become holy — changes the trials into calm progressing in holiness.
I think sometimes we tell others about our challenges in order to get human help in coping with them. AND in order to have others pray for us in our difficulties.
Feb 7, 8:17 PM
VisitationSiste: True also Ruth
Feb 7, 8:18 PM
Simone (Guest): true Ruth.. but when we invite others into our pain.. it leaves less space for GOD often
Feb 7, 8:19 PM
Simone (Guest): I think there is a difference between “sharing” or “complaining”. We were talking a bout complaining.. which is not necessarily “sharing”.. more “venting
Feb 7, 8:19 PM
VisitationSiste: Q 4. What is the “greatest perfection of Christian life”?
Feb 7, 8:20 PM
Dawn (Guest): often I tell others hoping to obtain some spiritual direction…”how do you see God is working in this” I may ask.
Feb 7, 8:20 PM
VisitationSiste: that’s honest
Feb 7, 8:20 PM
Simone (Guest): yes Dawn.. that is not “complaining”.. that is sharing
Feb 7, 8:20 PM
VisitationSiste: Charity is the greatest perfection I believe
Feb 7, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): beloved sister Charity
Feb 7, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): I think you are right Sr. Susan..
Feb 7, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): Everything else is submitted to Charity
Feb 7, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): Isn;’t that what also St. Paul writes in the Letter to the Corinthians?
Feb 7, 8:22 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes without love all is a clanking gong
Feb 7, 8:22 PM
Simone (Guest): 1.Cor.13
Feb 7, 8:22 PM
Simone (Guest): exactly
Feb 7, 8:22 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes, that is it
Feb 7, 8:22 PM
Simone (Guest): I don’t want my life to be a “clanking gong”
Feb 7, 8:23 PM
Dawn (Guest): The greatest perfection, yes 1 Corin
Feb 7, 8:23 PM
VisitationSiste: 5. Discuss St. Francis’s analogy regarding abandoning to divine providence, which he describes as a child who eats what is provided in order to grow.
Feb 7, 8:25 PM
Simone (Guest): I think, that refers beautifully back to the beginning of this letter – when he writes that we should not ask for temptations ( bad food.. or right food at the wrong time)
Feb 7, 8:25 PM
VisitationSiste: If we could only see all things as coming from God’s loving Hand
Feb 7, 8:26 PM
Dawn (Guest): this would make a great difference
Feb 7, 8:26 PM
Simone (Guest): This is the perfect description of ” original holiness”. Adam + Eve received everything coming from God’s loving hand.. until they changed their posture and started to grasp
Feb 7, 8:26 PM
VisitationSiste: So true! Only a few minutes left so heres the last q: 6. St. Francis advises this woman to practice a “gentle acquiescence in God’s will” five times a day, including an examination of conscience for this virtue. If you were to do this, what would it look like? Could this be carried out to grow in other virtues in one’s life?
Feb 7, 8:26 PM
Simone (Guest): Yes, going back to “receive” is THE most important step to become WHOLE – and therefore easily holy
Feb 7, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: from Ruth: In some ways, when I was almost totally helpless — esp. the first few days after chemo, home alone — it was easier than now when I am getting a bit better because, I think, it was CLEAR to me that God expected little more of me than to try to keep myself alive: eat, rest, sleep, and pray as best I could. Now, often, I plan to do MORE and still cannot. I may be deceiving myself, thinking my plans are God’s will for me just now, but they may be much more my own desire — e.g. to simply tidy up
Feb 7, 8:27 PM
Dawn (Guest): I may write this down and pin up so I could see it thruout the day
Feb 7, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: from Ruth continued: the house a bit, or to repair something that seems to me to be necessary to repair.
Feb 7, 8:29 PM
Simone (Guest): It must be hard sometimes now Ruth. I can’t blame you that you want to apply your strength from times to time to something tanglibe
Feb 7, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: I ask for prayers for Betty a chatter here and her mom, who have a fever today.
Feb 7, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): oh no.. Is it a reaction from the vaccination?
Feb 7, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes
Feb 7, 8:31 PM
Simone (Guest): hope it will pass soon. and that peace will rule both their hearts.
Feb 7, 8:32 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes I hope so too!
Feb 7, 8:32 PM
Dawn (Guest): prayers they will be healed from the vaccine
Feb 7, 8:32 PM
VisitationSiste: I need to leave now. Thank you so much for this wonderful spiritual input
Feb 7, 8:32 PM
VisitationSiste: Thanks Dawn
Feb 7, 8:32 PM
VisitationSiste: May you both have a peaceful week!
Feb 7, 8:32 PM
Simone (Guest): Thank you Sister. And thank you Dawn!
Feb 7, 8:32 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you Sr, goodnite Simone and Ruth
Feb 7, 8:33 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you all!!
Feb 7, 8:33 PM
Simone (Guest): I receive your blessing!
Feb 7, 8:33 PM
Dawn (Guest): Amen.