Saint Francis writes that having to attend to many things is a great means of acquiring virtue. Discuss this in light of the story of Martha and Mary with Jesus. What do you think of Saint Francis saying that “the fact that one has to attend to a great many different sorts of things is in itself more troublesome than the actual load of business”? Why is this so? What is so important about patience? What does it mean to be patient with ourselves?
How does a sour attitude affect others? Ho
May 16, 8:02 AM
VisitationSiste: How does a sour attitude affect others?
How can we work on having a sweetness of temper towards everyone?
May 16, 8:02 AM
VisitationSiste: Sun chat May 16 730pm est
May 16, 8:03 AM
VisitationSiste: newsletter for chat: http://www.icontact-archive.com/archive?c=1029793&f=1988&s=2046&m=617074&t=44f0d18c19339967b1be43b205c1596fa07d3b2574e5f4560987969cb886fdda
Saint Francis writes that having to attend to many things is a great means of acquiring virtue. Discuss this in light of the story of Martha and Mary with Jesus. I am learning to be patient with my new clumsiness but I often think I could never be around other people because they would find my clumsiness intolerable.
May 16, 7:33 PM
Dawn (Guest): Interesting to consider this q in light of Martha and Mary
May 16, 7:33 PM
Simone (Guest): I agree Dawn. that is interesting
May 16, 7:34 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Simone
May 16, 7:34 PM
Simone (Guest): cause everyone thinks ( me included) usually that Martha is not getting closer to GOD because she is “distracted by so many things”
May 16, 7:34 PM
Simone (Guest): Hi Dawn
May 16, 7:34 PM
Simone (Guest): Hi everyone!
May 16, 7:35 PM
Simone (Guest): So, what virtues can be acquired when we attend to many things
Ruth (Guest): Yes. Mary has chosen the better part, not because the tasks that Martha was doing were unimportant, but because she was sort of flustered about it, putting TOO MUCH emphasis on it.
May 16, 7:35 PM
Dawn (Guest): right! but is she…..
May 16, 7:35 PM
Simone (Guest): Was it patience?
I always interpreted that Martha was concerned with things about on earth.. whereas Mary was hanging on Jesus lips because she was concerned about heavenly things
May 16, 7:36 PM
Simone (Guest): so the worries of the earth are taking away the “worries” about eternal things
36 PM
Ruth (Guest): Jesus said “You are anxious about many things . . .” It is the anxiety and maybe the jealousy that got a reprimand from Jesus. 37 PM
Simone (Guest): but she would not have to be jealous.. if she would have CHOSEn to sit at the feet of Jesus and let go the earthly worries
May 16, 7:37 PM
Ruth (Guest): Not the DOING itself.
May 16, 7:37 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Hi Simone! I agree it is the anxiety that is troubling
May 16, 7:37 PM
Simone (Guest): I agree.. not the doing itself
M
Ruth (Guest): And hello Simone. You have added so much to our little group.
May 16, 7:39 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Jesus Himself served others in many ways so Martha was not out of line in that but Jesus would have been calm and loving probably where Martha was anxious and complaining
May 16, 7:39 PM
Simone (Guest): I feel very blessed to be allowed to join.
0 PM
Simone (Guest): I think Martha put her own expectation of this visit before Jesus’s agenda of this visit.
May 16, 7:40 PM
Simone (Guest): Something I am often tempted to do in my prayer times or even my ministry
May 16, 7:40 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): and even in attending tomany things of service one should always beready to stop and listwen to the Lord if He speaks in the midst of that activity
1 PM
Simone (Guest): how do you do that Sister?
Simone (Guest): in a very practical way I mean
May 16, 7:41 PM
Brian (Guest): I think she was serving but bitterly keeping her eyes on what she viewed someone else should have been doing . She was judging another ! Great temptation when your busy and tired !!!!
May 16, 7:42 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): with difficulty! having a Chapel in the house helps- we can always take a break and stop in. Once could simply pause silently in one’s heart too
May 16, 7:42 PM
Simone (Guest): It is true.. I never thought about this.. what if she just would have joyfully kept working?
M
Ruth (Guest): I had an uncle whose wife was disabled. He was a researcher and administrator in a Florida School District. He had LOTS of various tasks. Including as an Elder in his church. We visited them when I was 15. What truly amazed me was how much he was able to get done, without even seeming to be doing anything. He’d be keeping the conversation going, disappear for a minute or two now and then to check the supper, put something into the washing machine. One would hardly even notice he was gone and he’d be
May 16, 7:42 PM
Simone (Guest): I find transitions difficult.. from high adrenaline – to prayer mode
3 PM
Ruth (Guest): he’d be back, always calm and cheerful. , 7:43 PM
Simone (Guest): I wish your uncle would have written a book Ruth :44 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): q2 What do you think of Saint Francis saying that “the fact that one has to attend to a great many different sorts of things is in itself more troublesome than the actual load of business”? Why is this so?
May 16, 7:44 PM
Brian (Guest): We live in an extremely judgemental culture !!!! People are Soo quick too attack others they don’t even know about anything !!! Great Lesson for us all today , don’t judge !!!
:44 PM
Simone (Guest): I find – that it helps me if I do mental prayer in the morning about a passage – or choose an Antiphon of morning prayer – then I take this as a help for transitioning during the day from activity mode to prayer mode 16, 7:45 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): As we mentioned last week I think different temperaments need different approaches or rather take different ones M
Dawn (Guest): good point Brian. there is much going on right now!
May 16, 7:48 PM
Ruth (Guest): True. I wish I could have gotten to know that uncle better, too. I think I only saw him three or four, maybe five times in my life, but always was impressed.
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): I think the question may be a bit confusing- the comparison between attending lots of different things vs the load of business
May 16, 7:49 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Both can be comprised of “loads of business”
May 16, 7:49 PM
Brian (Guest): I think the Pandemic has helped some people to see the benefit of slowing down and not bouncing from one thing to another 7 days a week PM
Simone (Guest): My life has always been separated in several tracks. I find it extremely tiresome. Not just different tasks, but also different roles..Like leader in one track – and student in another – then wife and mother in another one.. my head felt like a carousel sometimes 1 PM
Ruth (Guest): I often tell a receptionist/switchboard operator in an office, especially one who admires what I’ve been doing with patients: “I could not do YOUR job, switching back and forth between various callers, and visitors. . .”
1 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Like an identity crisis Simone? 1 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Like an identity crisis Simone?
May 16, 7:52 PM
Ruth (Guest): I an amazed at any and all “working” mothers. It does take a special talent to do such a variety of tasks well.
May 16, 7:52 PM
Ruth (Guest): I have trouble “compartmentalizing.”
May 16, 7:52 PM
Simone (Guest): well, there was certainly a point in my life – where I was close to that. But as I just think now.. Nothing has changed on the outside much – but inside I know – How God wants me to show up – and that is sort of the core now of every task and every role
May 16, 7:53 PM
Brian (Guest): Jesus teaches us the negative impact of the busy life in the parable of the Sower .
4 PM
Ruth (Guest): Interesting idea, Brian. “He knows not how it happens . . .”
May 16, 7:54 PM
Simone (Guest): like the saying goes.. everyone loves the bee – but no-one likes the mosquito.. if business is just “business” – then it can actually lead us away from GOD – distracting us. But if business is fruitful ( like the bee) – then it can be a path to holiness too
May 16, 7:54 PM
Dawn (Guest): He teaches in the Scripture of Mary and Martha also
Ruth (Guest): God certainly does take the little bit we are able to offer and make it fruitful if we offer it ALL to Him.
May 16, 7:55 PM
Ruth (Guest): Even when we do not SEE the fruits.
May 16, 7:55 PM
Simone (Guest): yes.. as Brian and Sister pointed out – sometimes – we just have to step back and watch how GOD works things out – and make them gorw PM
Brian (Guest): A busy life destroys relationships at every level and separates from God and others . We are not able to live in the fertile soil of truly growing relationships with God and Others !
56 PM
Dawn (Guest): so true
May 16, 7:57 PM
Simone (Guest): I wonder – what is different with our business and the business St. Francis de Sales and St. Jane had – they seemed extremely busy to me
:56 PM
Dawn (Guest): so true
May 16, 7:57 PM
Simone (Guest): I wonder – what is different with our business and the business St. Francis de Sales and St. Jane had – they seemed extremely busy to me
May 16, 7:57 PM
Simone (Guest): well.. I guess life was slower generally back then
May 16, 7:57 PM
Ruth (Guest): LOVE reaches out; it does not turn in on itself. I have to even in my COVID/Ca hermitage – life , offer ALL to Him and trust that He will make it fruitful.
May 16, 7:58 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): They were busy people but the culture was slower
PM
Simone (Guest): I wonder – what is different with our business and the business St. Francis de Sales and St. Jane had – they seemed extremely busy to me
May 16, 7:57 PM
Simone (Guest): well.. I guess life was slower generally back then
May 16, 7:57 PM
Ruth (Guest): LOVE reaches out; it does not turn in on itself. I have to even in my COVID/Ca hermitage – life , offer ALL to Him and trust that He will make it fruitful.
May 16, 7:58 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): They were busy people but the culture was slower
May 16, 7:58 PM
Simone (Guest): lovely Ruth
May 16, 7:59 PM Brian (Guest): Have you ever written a Book Ruth !!!
Dawn (Guest): It seems there are demands increasing on us, esp in standing for and doing for protection of others.
May 16, 8:00 PM
Simone (Guest): I think – people back then were not swamped with options. They usually had ONE focus – and they arranged their business around this ONE focus.. Nowadays we are trying to live 5 lives in 1 it seems sometiems
May 16, 8:00 PM
Ruth (Guest): Maybe so, Sister, but even everyday tasks that are necessary were harder than. Can you imagine a monastery without running water, or an infirmary without a washing machine?
May 16, 8:00 PM
Brian (Guest): Soo True Simone !!!!
May 16, 8:00 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): True!
May 16, 8:00 PM
Simone (Guest): are you talking ” pro life Dawn?
May 16, 8:01 PM
Dawn (Guest): social media has sure contributed to the increase, the frantic. yes, this is one area I was thinking of Simone
01 PM
Simone (Guest): I hear you Ruth, but back then Sister would not be on the computer with us – but having time to tend to the ordinary things more
May 16, 8:01 PM
Ruth (Guest): A kitchen, for which wood would have to be gathered to cook, and waiting until the fire was just right to bake your bread?
PM
Dawn (Guest): social media has sure contributed to the increase, the frantic. yes, this is one area I was thinking of Simone
May 16, 8:01 PM
Simone (Guest): I hear you Ruth, but back then Sister would not be on the computer with us – but having time to tend to the ordinary things more
May 16, 8:01 PM
Ruth (Guest): A kitchen, for which wood would have to be gathered to cook, and waiting until the fire was just right to bake your bread?
May 16, 8:02 PM
Simone (Guest): but, did we really “gain” time, by all the appliances?
May 16, 8:02 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): how did they do it actually
May 16, 8:02 PM
Dawn (Guest): sounds lovely Ruth
May 16, 8:03 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): q 3 What is so important about patience? What does it mean to be patient with ourselves?
Ruth (Guest): So true Simone. It is our expectations of ourselves and others expectations of us that have changed so dramatically.
May 16, 8:04 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Perhaps Martha was impatient with herself so she developed anxiety about others
PM
Simone (Guest): I think we “mis interpret” being impatient without ourselves as “humble” sometimes.. when in fact – it is a window to pride deep inside
May 16, 8:05 PM
Brian (Guest): We really are squelching the Holy Spirit when we pick on ourselves !!! But we Allow the Holy Spirit too Flourish in our Lives when we are Patient with ourselves and others !!!! I think that picking on ourselves is another form of pride
May 16, 8:06 PM
Simone (Guest): haha Brian.. same thought, eh?
May 16, 8:06 PM
Brian (Guest): Ha ha ha !!!
PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Pride is insidious
May 16, 8:09 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Perhaps only another can know if someone is humble, but not the self
May 16, 8:09 PM
Simone (Guest): When my daughter went through depression -she had horrible thoughts of self- doubt even self-hatred – as a mother who loves her so much.. it hurt me that someone ( even if it was herself) thought so horribly of her. I wonder, what GOd thinks, when we are applying impatience on ourselves. How he wishes maybe that we could just take His grace and turn it towards us
May 16, 8:09 PM
Dawn (Guest): isnt pride the most deadly of all sins?
May 16, 8:09 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Not sure about that tho
May 16, 8:09 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Yes Dawn I think you are right
Simone (Guest): interesting thought about ” humble” Sister. humility is self-knowledge. In some ways, we can see that, but it sure has to be affirmed :11 PM
Ruth (Guest): A Mental Health display at our local hospital had a number of hand-outs, including the phone number of an anti-suicide hotline. And a card that said: Strive for Improvement, not Perfection. I’ve been thinking about that a lot, esp., since there is a scripture verse that says, “Be ye PERFECT as your heavenly Father is perfect.” And yet we know that no matter how we strive for perfection, we will not get there. 11 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): If we knew the original language of the quote it might give insight
May 16, 8:11 PM
Simone (Guest): I always read “perfection” in the bible as “holiness”
May 16, 8:12 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): I find that with Scripture the translations sometimes are not precise to the Greek or Hebrew
May 16, 8:12 PM
Simone (Guest): I raised my daughter with the saying ” perfection is sinful”
May 16, 8:12 PM
Simone (Guest): and by that I do not mean holiness of course
8:12 PM
Simone (Guest): by that I mean. the striving to be the best of the best of the best – such a pride-feeder 3 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): perfectionism vs perfection? 8:13 PM
Simone (Guest): oh. YES.. sorry, that’s what I meant ) M
Ruth (Guest): St. Francis expresses an answer: not by your diligence, but by . . . Here it is: Do not trust in your industry to carry you successfully through all your affairs but only in God’s help; and then rest securely in his care of you, believing that he will do what is best for you, providing that you for your part work diligently and yet without straining. M
Brian (Guest): I think that the Lord’s idea of Perfection is Peace !!! When we are at Peace we are able to Serve and Love Others and God fully and use the Gifts God has given us which would equal Perfection too God I believe !
May 16, 8:14 PM
Simone (Guest): great quote.. yes.. we are doing our part diligently ( yet without straining)..
May 16, 8:16 PM
Ruth (Guest): A real challenge to find that right balance.
8:16 PM Simone (Guest): I love the rest of the quote too
Ruth (Guest): Yes. It would’ve been cut off if I tried to put the whole thing in.
May 16, 8:17 PM
Simone (Guest): ” violent effort spots both your heart and the business in hand is not really diligence but rather over-eagerness and agitation”
May 16, 8:17 PM
Simone (Guest): spoils — not spots
PM
Ruth (Guest): Maybe that is where the word “grace” comes from. Graceful people are not over-eager or agitated.
May 16, 8:19 PM
Simone (Guest): also peaceful people
0 PM
Ruth (Guest): I find the use of the word “sweetness” interesting, too.
May 16, 8:20 PM
Simone (Guest): come to think.. all the fruits of the Spirit are not present in a state of over-eager or agitated
May 16, 8:20 PM
Simone (Guest): now.. what’s first? hen or egg?
May 16, 8:20 PM
Brian (Guest): Soo True Simone !!!!
May 16, 8:21 PM
Ruth (Guest): A confessor once urged me to work on “sweetness.” I had a — probably for that time, anyway — a false idea of what sweetness meant.
May 16, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): interesting.. so what does sweetness mean to you Ruth?
May 16, 8:21 PM
Dawn (Guest): this reminds me of the sign I heard of in monastary surrender to God and he will do everything for you
May 16, 8:21 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Ruth do you mean from this q: How does a sour attitude affect others?
How can we work on having a sweetness of temper towards everyone
2 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): That is a real challenge !
May 16, 8:22 PM
Brian (Guest): That over eager or agitated state is a barometer that we have drifted away from God and are self focused
May 16, 8:23 PM
Dawn (Guest): prayer for the grace to have sweetness of temper
May 16, 8:23 PM
Dawn (Guest): for apart from him, we can do nothing
May 16, 8:23 PM Simone (Guest): sweetness of temper.. what a lovely phrase… can that be seen as “gentleness”?
Ruth (Guest): Thiso not lose any opportunity, however small, of showing sweetness of temper towards everyone.
M
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Gentleness plus
May 16, 8:24 PM
Ruth (Guest): This: Do not lose any
May 16, 8:25 PM
Brian (Guest): Sweetness of Temper is what really helps draw others toward God
May 16, 8:26 PM
Simone (Guest): can someone write a short example about “sweetness of temper” maybe? what is the difference to “cultural kindness (sweetness)?
6 PM
Simone (Guest): ok.. Brian.. now I have a better picture already PM
Ruth (Guest): I associated the word with frills, lace, pink, an artificial smile. And when I looked it up in various dictionaries, that falseness was also a big part of it. And I was keenly aware of NOT being sweet. I want to call a spade a spade. 7 PM
Brian (Guest): Someone who is a really Good Listener :28 PM
Simone (Guest): Ruth.. I hear you loud and clearly. Even my Austrian culture prohibits some level of “sweetness” I think. We are blunt people. Loving, but blunt
May 16, 8:28 PM
Dawn (Guest): In the Gospels Jesus very much spoke truth and it was not always sweet or gentle , but I do believe with much love for souls
8 online
Ruth
Brian
Simone
Dawn
29 PM
Simone (Guest): When my friends visit here in Canada.. where people are super friendly and polite ( as Americans are too by the way).. they are very confused.. up to the point of frustrated with the level of “cultural sweetness” here.. but this is a sweetness that does not touch the soul really
May 16, 8:29 PM
Ruth (Guest): But I think St. Francis — and probably the confessor — and Brian have a different idea about sweetness.
PM
Ruth (Guest): But I think St. Francis — and probably the confessor — and Brian have a different idea about sweetness.
May 16, 8:29 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): In French the word might be douceur
May 16, 8:29 PM
Simone (Guest): well.. we are talking about “sweetness of temper”.. so it has to do with reactions in some ways
May 16, 8:30 PM
Dawn (Guest): good description…cultural sweetness
M 31 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): maybe gently truthful?
May 16, 8:31 PM
Dawn (Guest): interesting reflections
:31 PM
Ruth (Guest): I like Brian’s “good listener,” at least as one quality of sweetness. That’s what Mary did, while Martha was feeling bitter toward her sister.
May 16, 8:31 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): Yes avery good discussion-
May 16, 8:32 PM
Sr Susan Marie (Guest): I have to leave now. Have a Blessed prep for Pentecost next week!
M
Simone (Guest): hmm.. interesting.. I think maybe – when our whole being points to the goodness of GOd in a situation rather than to a negative component 32 PM Simone (Guest): Bye Sister..