- What does it mean when St. Francis says, “Why have I not done more to keep our Father’s image faithfully mirrored in my heart?”
- Why do you think St. Francis needed to be convinced to have his portrait painted (opposed to him just simply agreeing to it)?
- Discuss this: “The real secret in prayer is to follow one’s attraction with a simple heart.”
- Regarding following our affections in prayer, St. Francis concludes by saying: “Real love has no set method.” What does this mean?
- Why does serving others lead to peace for ourselves? How can we ensure we do not serve others simply to receive that peace?
| Hi Subscriber, This week we read a letter from St. Francis de Sales to Madame de Granieu in Annecy on 8 June 1618. In the letter St. Francis mentions a commissioned painting, here is a note: Madame de Granieu of Grenoble persuaded St. Francis and Mere de Chantal to sit for their portraits. The portrait of St. Francis is the Turin portrait, the original being at the Turin Visitation, and is probably the one best known. Madame de Granieu said that she never looked at this picture without receiving new lights and a very special impression of the mystery of the Holy Trinity. Writing of her appreciation of this picture, St. Francis says: ‘What will it be like, my very dear daughter, when we see the face of the eternal Father for ever, if even the dead and dumb portrait of a poor mortal has such power to gladden the heart of a daughter who loves him? But from what you tell me this portrait is not dumb, for it speaks to your spirit, saying holy things. Well, I think that only your ears with their delicate perception are capable of hearing this silent speech., recalling to your imagination what I said in the pulpit when I was talking about the will of God which is your sanctification.’ (A. XVIII, p. 25r, letter of July 1618). |
Can I quickly share something about the picture that was part of the reading this week?
May 30, 7:35 PM
Dawn (Guest): q1. it seems he is discerning within himself , perhaps he could not envision spiritually Gods image. is this his feeling distanced?
May 30, 7:36 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you Simone
May 30, 7:36 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes please
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Simone (Guest): thanks Sister.. so it is not a big thing.. but see the picture is actually from “Hall” in Tirol in Austria.. but it says “Bad Hall” – which happens to be a town in Austria where I spent many many weekends – ( the last one with my mother on earth here too) – since my grandmother lived there. 7:38 PM
Simone (Guest): Sorry, that this was not really relevant to the talk.. but so very meaningful for me personally, that I wanted to share it with you, my “Visitation friends” 9 PM
Simone (Guest): thanks Sister.. and now – right back to your question. promise PM
VisitationSiste: I am thinking that a priest and Bishop as St Francis was is very concious of God the Father and esp as he is in persona Christi
May 30, 7:40 PM
Simone (Guest): and as for the question.. Dawn, what you wrote – it totally makes sense to me
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Simone (Guest): I see, being in persona Christi – does give this even a new spin
May 30, 7:42 PM
Simone (Guest): Did St. Francis have a vision maybe – he is referring to?
May 30, 7:42 PM
Dawn (Guest): I could not quite bring up my thoughts clearly. now, of course he would be very conscious of God., so it must be something else
May 30, 7:43 PM
Simone (Guest): Actually Dawn.. I had the same thought as you.
May 30, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: He did have a vision
May 30, 7:43 PM
Dawn (Guest): he says Why have I not done more to keep our Father’s image faithfully mirrored in my heart? I ask you to help me beg for the grace to restore it within me.
Simone (Guest): I loved the humble way of asking “for help to beg for the grace..”
May 30, 7:43 PM
Simone (Guest): oh sweet sweet humble St. Francis
7:43 PM
Simone (Guest): I loved the humble way of asking “for help to beg for the grace..”
May 30, 7:43 PM
Simone (Guest): oh sweet sweet humble St. Francis
May 30, 7:44 PM
Simone (Guest): Dawn.. we are totally on parallel thought tracks tonight.. so cool
May 30, 7:44 PM
Dawn (Guest): is he referring to his vision,, and not able to see it clearly again
May 30, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: when he was ordained but I cant remember the content
May 30, 7:44 PM
Simone (Guest): oh, is it in his biography?
May 30, 7:44 PM
VisitationSiste: yes
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Dawn (Guest): yes..
May 30, 7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): great. Can’t wait to read it. I have read more on St. Jane de Chantal than St. Francis to be honest
5 PM
Ruth (Guest): Is it not a vision of God the Father?
May 30, 7:45 PM
Joan (Guest): He wishes he had done more. Some regret perhaps sadness?
May 30, 7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Ruth Sorry to say I cant remember
7:45 PM
VisitationSiste: Hi Ruth Sorry to say I cant remember
May 30, 7:45 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Ruth
May 30, 7:46 PM
VisitationSiste: One can never live up to God the Father I guess!
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Simone (Guest): Joan, I hear the regret too in his words, but what can you really do? It is not ours to keep a vision. Even if we received it – it still belongs to GOD.. even the memory PM Simone (Guest): when I say “you”.. I did not mean YOU personally Joan.. that was a general
Dawn (Guest): profound thoughts Simone
May 30, 7:48 PM
Dawn (Guest): where is Joan you are talking to??
May 30, 7:48 PM
Joan (Guest): I do not want to die wishing I had done more. I pray I will fulfill God’s will
8 PM
Dawn (Guest): deep
May 30, 7:48 PM
Simone (Guest): I see Joan’s posts Dawn. Please tell me you all see it too.
9 PM
Dawn (Guest): No. I do not see Joans posts!
May 30, 7:49 PM
VisitationSiste: I see them
, 7:49 PM
Simone (Guest): Joan.. I very much relate to your desire. PM
Dawn (Guest): Ruth, do you see them?
May 30, 7:49 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, at 7:45
May 30, 7:50 PM
Ruth (Guest): Do you see it now,
May 30, 7:50 PM
Simone (Guest): I recently started studying the Spiritual Directory – and thought that this is a brilliant way to actually make sure – that we will never die with this regret on our heart.
May 30, 7:50 PM
Ruth (Guest): Dawn,Just before your post.
51 PM
VisitationSiste: The spiritual directory would make great chat topics for future!
May 30, 7:51 PM
Simone (Guest): Sister.. do the Visitation order use the Spiritual Directory still?
May 30, 7:51 PM
Simone (Guest): does
May 30, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes we do first thing we use with a postulant
May 30, 7:51 PM
Joan (Guest): What is that? The Spiritual Directory?
PM
Simone (Guest): Sister.. do the Visitation order use the Spiritual Directory still?
May 30, 7:51 PM
Simone (Guest): does
May 30, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes we do first thing we use with a postulant
Joan (Guest): What is that? The Spiritual Directory?
May 30, 7:52 PM
Joan (Guest): Is it online?
May 30, 7:52 PM
VisitationSiste: It’s a little book that helps you grow in union with God from moment to moment
May 30, 7:52 PM
VisitationSiste: Parts of it are I think
May 30, 7:52 PM
Simone (Guest): Yes.. there is a great book actually Joan. for lay people..
May 30, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: or a modern version- the Oblates of St Francis de Sales have it on line or did
May 30, 7:53 PM
Dawn (Guest): looked. it says The “Spiritual Directory” (as it is known today by the Oblates of St. Francis de Sales) presents a way of making spiritual connections with various moments throughout a typical day and offers a means an approach to preparing for formal prayer, Confession, Holy Communion, and the celebration of Eucharist.
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Joan (Guest): I will have to look for it! PM
Ruth (Guest): Me, too.
May 30, 7:54 PM
Simone (Guest): I post the author in a minute
May 30, 7:54 PM
Dawn (Guest): Sr, do you recommend the modern version or is there an older one?
May 30, 7:54 PM
VisitationSiste: There is a good commentary with it by Mother Ponnet but a modern one will do
7:54 PM
Simone (Guest): I am reading currently ” Live today well” from Fr. Thomas F. Dailey
May 30, 7:54 PM
Ruth (Guest): I have often prayed, “Don’t let me die before I have become what you want me to be and done what you want me to do.” — That long before I had a deadly illness.
May 30, 7:55 PM
Simone (Guest): oh.. .Sister.. I would love to get the commentary from Mother Ponnet
7:56 PM
VisitationSiste: https://www.oblates.org/the-spiritual-directory
The Spiritual Directory — Oblates of St. Francis de Sales
May 30, 7:56 PM
Joan (Guest): Thank you!
7:56 PM
Joan (Guest): Thank you!
May 30, 7:56 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you!
May 30, 7:57 PM
Ruth (Guest): His humility, I presume. Sitting for a portrait draws attention to him, and he wants attention to be on God.
May 30, 7:57 PM
Joan (Guest): God love you all. We are so blessed to Catholic
May 30, 7:57 PM
Simone (Guest): Yes, I thought so too Ruth. Totally can see that this attention makes him uncomfortable.
May 30, 7:58 PM
Simone (Guest): I wonder what he would have thought about our selfie- culture on social media now.
May 30, 7:58 PM
Carol (Guest): I think he would have been horrified
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Joan (Guest): Saints would nor recognize the Church today
May 30, 7:59 PM
Simone (Guest): Good point
May 30, 7:59 PM
VisitationSiste: I agree
May 30, 7:59 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Carol!
00 PM
VisitationSiste: Re the secret of prayer- following one’s heart- the Holy Spirit ultimately directsour prayer PM
VisitationSiste: Re the secret of prayer- following one’s heart- the Holy Spirit ultimately directsour prayer
Dawn (Guest): good point Ruth. his humility
May 30, 8:01 PM
Joan (Guest): Imagine, most Saints attended Traditional Latin Mass. Today most Catholics cannot
May 30, 8:01 PM
Ruth (Guest): Maybe he also had trouble seeing how it good serve God. He would not have turned away from something that was “uncomfortable” just because it was uncomfortable, IF he thought, right off, that it would serve
May 30, 8:01 PM
Ruth (Guest): God.
May 30, 8:02 PM
Simone (Guest): Sister.. I assume you are in question 3 now.. with your post.. I would really like to know how everyone understands the word “attraction” in this question.
May 30, 8:02 PM
Ruth (Guest): After he learns that his “dear daughter” receives inspiration from it, he seems very pleased.
May 30, 8:02 PM
Simone (Guest): Discuss this: “The real secret in prayer is to follow one’s attraction with a simple heart.”
May 30, 8:02 PM
Simone (Guest): oh sorry.. if I galloped away.
May 30, 8:03 PM
Carol (Guest): Because the Spirit gives us the words we need to say
May 30, 8:03 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, the two questions posted together are quite different from one another.
:04 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hopefully the “attraction” is for what is good, holy, worth perusing.
May 30, 8:04 PM
Ruth (Guest): But then there is the matter of the “simple heart”, too.
May 30, 8:04 PM
Simone (Guest): so.. is “attraction” – where the Spirit is “attracting” the soul?
May 30, 8:05 PM
Simone (Guest): like – a friend who gives you a sign and says ‘ Come over here.. And look. I want to show you something”
May 30, 8:05 PM
Simone (Guest): and ladies… how do you understand ” a simple heart”?
6 PM
Carol (Guest): To be solely focused on God M
Carol (Guest): To be solely focused on God
May 30, 8:06 PM
Dawn (Guest): As a child
May 30, 8:06 PM
VisitationSiste: single-minded in prayer
Simone (Guest): you are probably right Carol.. it just does not “sound simple” to me
, 8:07 PM
Carol (Guest): I think it us that you allow no distraction that keeps it simple
May 30, 8:07 PM
Ruth (Guest): and “follow” could use some clarification, too.
May 30, 8:07 PM
VisitationSiste: Sometimes people new at prayer try various techniques or styles- but all God wants is our love and heart
8:07 PM
Ruth (Guest): good point, sister.
May 30, 8:08 PM
Simone (Guest): simple heart … yes.. simply loving.. not overthinking our words.. just showing up with our love for GOD
May 30, 8:08 PM
Joan (Guest): Jesus I Trust In You!
May 30, 8:08 PM
Simone (Guest): so.. Ruth.. how do you see- what “follow” means?
May 30, 8:08 PM
Carol (Guest): I know for a long time I struggled to pray using only words. But then I found ti combine images and words and I was off to the races
May 30, 8:09 PM
Ruth (Guest): I think of a dream, long ago, following Jesus’ footsteps in the snow. It is difficult, but less difficult because he has gone ahead. And then the fresh snow covers over everything . . .
May 30, 8:10 PM
Ruth (Guest): I like that Carol.
May 30, 8:10 PM
Simone (Guest): Imagination can be so powerful in prayer. You must love Ignatian Spirituality Carol
May 30, 8:10 PM
Joan (Guest): I love images too when praying
May 30, 8:10 PM
Carol (Guest): It does seem to be right up my alley!
May 30, 8:10 PM
Joan (Guest): Beautiful pictures
11 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes, modern ones,classic ones, of holy people and things 11 PM
Dawn (Guest): Love these images. all 1 PM
Ruth (Guest): Magnificat always has a powerful image and a commentary on it. 8:12 PMVisitationSiste: I spoke to a spiritual artist recently who prays in pictures and then trys to paint them
Simone (Guest): WOW
May 30, 8:12 PM
Joan (Guest): The image helps me stay focused
May 30, 8:12 PM
Carol (Guest): I believe!
, 8:12 PM
Joan (Guest): The image helps me stay focused
May 30, 8:12 PM
Carol (Guest): I believe!
May 30, 8:13 PM
Ruth (Guest): But God also gives us images. Important, however to realize that the utterly transcendent can not be “properly” accurately “pictured.”
May 30, 8:13 PM
VisitationSiste: I dont have that picture prayer gift tho
2 viewers
M
Joan (Guest): I post them on my Instagram 😂
May 30, 8:14 PM
Simone (Guest): I love praying with imagination – when I meditate on a Gospel passage – although I seem not to be able that easy as others do.. but I love to sit for long times in my chair and just smile and let my soul speak to His soul somehow… Afterwards I feel beautifully refreshed
, 8:14 PM
Carol (Guest): I live how many different spiritualities our church contains–there is something that speaks to everyone
May 30, 8:14 PM
Simone (Guest): Although, one sign that GOD has reached my heart was -when I started to relate to visual art. Before that.. I could not care less
8:15 PM
Joan (Guest): God has gifted so many artists
May 30, 8:15 PM
Ruth (Guest): I haven’t used Instagram yet, and very little Twitter. Everything takes me so much time.
8:15 PM
VisitationSiste: q Regarding following our affections in prayer, St. Francis concludes by saying: “Real love has no set method.” What does this mean?
May 30, 8:15 PM
Simone (Guest): you are right Ruth.. it literally TAKES time often to be on social media. Although, it can be beautifully used for HIS glory too
May 30, 8:16 PM
Carol (Guest): That there is more than one right way
May 30, 8:16 PM
Simone (Guest): Honestly- this was a life saver for me yesterday. I got involved with a Carmelite prayer group -and although I love contemplative prayer – very much -I always felt – I am doing something wrong – constantly running after the words – and loosing my heart in the process – so my prayers were “word hunting” – not an expression of love.
May 30, 8:17 PM
Dawn (Guest): q. he says In short we must set about our prayer simply, trustfully and naturally, wanting to be near God, so as to love him and unite ourselves to him.
May 30, 8:17 PM
Simone (Guest): Yesterday I decided. ENOUGH. I want to pray like my heart talks to my God
May 30, 8:17 PM
Ruth (Guest): So, the “Methodists” don’t have it right?
May 30, 8:18 PM
Ruth (Guest):
May 30, 8:18 PM
Carol (Guest): That’s funny Ruth
May 30, 8:18 PM
Simone (Guest): good one Ruth
May 30, 8:18 PM
Simone (Guest): I mean.. I see value in written prayer
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Dawn (Guest):
May 30, 8:18 PM
Simone (Guest): But, I need freedom to move with my heart
May 30, 8:18 PM
Joan (Guest): The Holy Rosary is beautiful
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Carol (Guest): It is good to have when my heart is silent 9 PM
Simone (Guest): yes, but within the decade of prayer – I can follow the Spirit -where He leads me when I meditate on the mystery
May 30, 8:19 PM
VisitationSiste: St Francis de Sales loved the Rosary too
19 PM
Ruth (Guest): Journaling can be very helpful — just “trend of thought” IN HIS PRESENCE.
May 30, 8:19 PM
Simone (Guest): Journaling draws the most honest prayers out of my heart
May 30, 8:20 PM
Joan (Guest): The Rosary is life saving for me
May 30, 8:20 PM
Carol (Guest): And the Divine Mercy chaplet
May 30, 8:21 PM
Joan (Guest): Yes!
May 30, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): hm.. one day it would be great to have a whole chat on these prayers
May 30, 8:21 PM
Carol (Guest): As well as the seven sorrows of Mary
Carol (Guest): It would Simone
May 30, 8:21 PM
Ruth (Guest): I like praying the Rosary WITH OTHERS, but alone, I have trouble “multitasking” meditating on the mysteries WHILE saying the formed prayers.
May 30, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): hint hint Sister
May 30, 8:21 PM
Dawn (Guest): capitalize the R praying the rosary, lower case if speaking of an object. lol! just came to mind
May 30, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): I hear you Ruth
May 30, 8:22 PM
Simone (Guest): I never heard that before Dawn.. but it makes sense
May 30, 8:22 PM
Dawn (Guest): It would be wonderful if there was online Rosary to pray with the sisters!
, 8:22 PM
Dawn (Guest): It would be wonderful if there was online Rosary to pray with the sisters!
May 30, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): you mean with the Visitation sisters? Oh.. I would LOVE that too.
May 30, 8:23 PM
Carol (Guest): I use youtube a lot to pray with others
May 30, 8:23 PM
VisitationSiste: we pray the Rosary every day around 440P but its not online
May 30, 8:23 PM
Joan (Guest): I was blessed to pray at the TLM this morning. So beautiful.
May 30, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): is there a special way to pray the Rosary as a Visitation sister?
May 30, 8:23 PM
VisitationSiste: We could do a chat around the specuial way St Francis said the Rosary with his household I could put up a post about it
May 30, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): Yes. PLEASE
May 30, 8:23 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes olease!
May 30, 8:24 PM
Ruth (Guest): In fact, when I told a priest of the SOLT community that, he urged me to do one or the other, not try so hard to do both together.
May 30, 8:24 PM
Joan (Guest): Did Saint Francis attend the TLM?
VisitationSiste: take a look at this post: https://visitationspirit.org/2020/10/st-francis-de-sales-and-the-rosary-2/
St Francis de Sales and the Rosary | Visitation Spirit
May 30, 8:24 PM
Dawn (Guest): Thank you Sr~
May 30, 8:24 PM
Simone (Guest): what is TLM?
May 30, 8:25 PM
Simone (Guest): The Latin Mass?
May 30, 8:25 PM
Dawn (Guest): VAtican II…years later!
May 30, 8:25 PM
Simone (Guest): there was nothing else than the Latin Mass I guess
May 30, 8:26 PM
Joan (Guest): Lucky Catholics
26 PM
Ruth (Guest): I guess that advice is a little like St. Francis says — just follow your attraction — SIMPLY
May 30, 8:27 PM
Carol (Guest): I grew up with the vernacular Mass and have been blessed to celebrate in many different languages and cuktures
May 30, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: St. Francis also advised the Sisters, “I want the rosary said every day with as much love as possible.”
May 30, 8:27 PM
Simone (Guest): Ruth.. that is true. So what did you change in your prayer now if I may ask?
May 30, 8:27 PM
Joan (Guest): I want to worship like the Saints did
7 PM
Simone (Guest): Do you mean by that Latin?
May 30, 8:28 PM
Joan (Guest): Yes. Traditional
8 PM Dawn (Guest): Im inspired to draw a instruction for his Rosary…
Simone (Guest): interesting Dawn.. How would that look like?
May 30, 8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: so after the letters we do spiritual directory then rosary or take a pause with the letters for chat?
8:28 PM
VisitationSiste: so after the letters we do spiritual directory then rosary or take a pause with the letters for chat?
May 30, 8:29 PM
Simone (Guest): so.. you are planning to post the Spiritual Directory for our chats?
May 30, 8:29 PM
Dawn (Guest): not sure at all. well I will share it somehow if I succeed!
May 30, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: we can discuss more next time! I like your idea Dawn too!
May 30, 8:29 PM
Ruth (Guest): I pray the Divine Office, I used to pray if from a brieviary, now, mostly from the Ap, because I like the songs, and the SIMPLICITY. No flipping pages.
May 30, 8:29 PM
Simone (Guest): I do the same too Ruth
May 30, 8:29 PM
VisitationSiste: I have to go now Tomorrow is Feast of the Visitation! Blessings all!
May 30, 8:29 PM
Carol (Guest): The page flipping can be daunting!
May 30, 8:29 PM
Simone (Guest): YES. Tomorrow is the big day!