- Discuss the ‘analogy of faith’ of Holy Scripture. What does this mean?
- If Scripture is so clear with regard to the matters of salvation, why do Catholics, Lutherans, Calvinists, etc. have such different interpretations of Scripture? If Scripture is so clear with regard to the matters of salvation, why do Catholics, Lutherans, Calvinists, etc. have such different interpretations of Scripture?
- Notice how St. Francis mentions that Lutherans’ and Calvinists’ interpretation of Scripture is a departure from what we know about the Eucharist. What does this tell us about the importance of “Tradition” in the faith? Why are the practices (sacraments) and authority (teaching) of the Church such an important factor in interpreting Scripture?
- Is it arrogant of Catholics to claim that “anyone who looks for the truth of this heavenly Word outside the Church which is its guardian will never find it”? What would the faith look like without such a sure guide?
The devil has always twisted God’s words and tried to bring false interpretations. Discuss the parallel between the serpent’s deception to Adam and Eve (“Did God really say, ‘You shall not eat from any of the trees in the garden’?” [Genesis 3:1]) and his attempts at deceiving Jesus in the wilderness (“If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down; for it is written, ‘He will give his angels charge of you’” [Matthew 0 PM
- uth (Guest): Hi Simone!
- Jul 4, 7:35 PM
- Simone (Guest): Hi Ruth!
- Jul 4, 7:35 PM
- Carol (Guest): Yes I’m California Carol, the old one. Yes ! The Sister!
- Jul 4, 7:35 PM
- Carol (Guest): Hi Simone
- Jul 4, 7:35 PM
- Simone (Guest): Hi California Carol!
- Jul 4, 7:36 PM
- Simone (Guest): Ok.. you are starting us off with a difficult question sister.
- Jul 4, 7:36 PM
- Ruth (Guest): Funny that you say “The old one” I think most of us here are older people.
- Jul 4, 7:36 PM
- Simone (Guest): It sounds as analogy of faith is -somewhat what we did in our protestant circles
- Jul 4, 7:37 PM
- Simone (Guest): Allowing Scripture explaining Scripture –
- Jul 4, 7:37 PM
- Carol (Guest): The Carol who has been in the group a long time
- 37 PM
- Carol (Guest): The analogy is that Scripture describes how we should live?
- Jul 4, 7:38 PM
- VisitationSiste: You have it Simone The letter talks about Catholic vs Lutheran and Calvinist perceptions in a general way
9 PM
VisitationSiste: Putting together Scripture to get a whole picture perhaps PM
Simone (Guest): Carol, I see it more as a way of “how to study Scripture”. You can say, I only allow myself to believe something, if it is at least mentioned in another passage – and points to the same thing
Jul 4, 7:41 PM
Simone (Guest): the problem with this method is, that Scripture easily can become GOD. And it is a very cognitive process – and not so much ” engaging with a love letter from your Beloved”
2 PM
Simone (Guest): But we are of course called to use our mind too, when we read the Holy Word of God
Jul 4, 7:42 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes, cognitive is good, until its heart is removed
Jul 4, 7:42 PM
Simone (Guest): I agree Carol
q2 is relared to q1 2. If Scripture is so clear with regard to the matters of salvation, why do Catholics, Lutherans, Calvinists, etc. have such different interpretations of Scripture
Jul 4, 7:44 PM
Carol (Guest): It’s almost as if each generation has to discover the meaning for itself and its own time
Jul 4, 7:44 PM
Ruth (Guest): AND, as St Francis declares, man’s mind is dark. Even when Scripture is clear, which he says it is, we tend to put our own twist on it — make it conform to our wishes. That is why we need an infallible teacher/interpeter of the truth.
Jul 4, 7:45 PM
Carol (Guest): Would it be true that at the time of Calvin Etal, the writings of the early church fathers might not gave been widely available ?
Jul 4, 7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): We often put our lease of our own culture on what we read. That’s why I came to appreciate Sacred Tradition so much in the Catholic Church. That eliminates this error quite a bit
Jul 4, 7:46 PM
Ruth (Guest): And Jesus has given us this in the R.C.Church’
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Carol (Guest): I am thinking that without those teachings available people might decide we just made stuff up
Jul 4, 7:46 PM
Simone (Guest): yes. We have access to Sacred Tradition. Although not always that high regarded I found out
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VisitationSiste: Yes I think the Church Fathers were not always considered esp in the time of Reformation 8 PM
Ruth (Guest): Trouble is, for a long time, Catholics seemed to be told that they were too dumb to read and learn from the scriptures. We (Catholics) until recently were not very familiar with Sacred Scripture.
Jul 4, 7:49 PM
Carol (Guest): Which is most unfortunate. Literacy is the key to many things. You cannot study well if you cannot read
Jul 4, 7:49 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yet it is with Bible Stories that my own conscious journey of Faith started.
Jul 4, 7:49 PM
Simone (Guest): St. Catherine of Siena could not even read and write properly most of her time in her Sainthood though. The Spirit can move powerfully through the Sacraments.
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Simone (Guest): For me too Ruth. God has used Scripture in my journey to reveal His love to me in ways, I might not have found in other ways
Jul 4, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: If ind the Bible most fascinating
7:50 PM
Simone (Guest): I love how the Old and the New Testament work together like a mosaic. Blows my mind. And it seems like a never-ending treasure
Jul 4, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: So much I did not know from my early childhood religion classes
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Ruth (Guest): I am ever so grateful that my parents had me baptised, and I went to CCD, received First Holy Communion. But at the time I did not appreciate the Sacraments.
Jul 4, 7:52 PM
Carol (Guest): I like how now we are taught some of the culture in which the stories are written. No father of a clan would behave the way the prodigal’s father did. The story is meant tomturn fulture upside down
4, 7:53 PM
Ruth (Guest): Praise the Lord, for sharing himself with us through the Blessed Sacrament.
Jul 4, 7:53 PM
Carol (Guest): Sr, you started with the most beautiful relationship ever!
Jul 4, 7:53 PM
Simone (Guest): Amen Carol
4 PM
VisitationSiste: Thanks to a friend who reintroduced me to adoration 4 PM
Simone (Guest): Ruth, I read that even St. Jane de Chantal had her ongoing doubts about the Sacraments. Mostly about the Eucharist. That really surprised me 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: She had alot of temptations against faith gly
Jul 4, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: q 4. Notice how St. Francis mentions that Lutherans’ and Calvinists’ interpretation of Scripture is a departure from what we know about the Eucharist. What does this tell us about the importance of “Tradition” in the faith?
Jul 4, 7:56 PM
Ruth (Guest): I didn’t know that. And I grew up in St Frances de Chantal Parish in Wantagh, South Shore of Long Island.
M
Carol (Guest): Me neither! 6 PM
Carol (Guest): I think some of the splits came not as much over Sacraments as other issues
Jul 4, 7:57 PM
VisitationSiste: Ruth your fellow parishioners made a pilgrimage to our Monastery in 2002
7 PM
Simone (Guest): I think so too Carol.
Jul 4, 7:57 PM
Simone (Guest): BUT.. the tragedy is, that the reform ever so steadily lead people away from faith in the Real Presence in the Eucharist
Jul 4, 7:57 PM
Carol (Guest): While I don’t know all if Luther’s points, I do know he dud not set Mary aside. He opposed earhly things like sellibg indulgences
Jul 4, 7:58 PM
Simone (Guest): Yes, I think Luther would not like how the Protestant movement turned out
Jul 4, 7:58 PM
Simone (Guest): But Rebellion against the Church never ends well
Jul 4, 7:59 PM
Carol (Guest): No, problems must be solved from within
9 PM
Simone (Guest): May I ask at this point for your prayers ladies? My husband and I are starting a bible study on Thursday night for the next 10 weeks with protestant couples on the EUCHARIST. Looking at the Eucharist from the book of Genesis until Revelation.
Jul 4, 7:59 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, you told me about that. Of course, by then I was living here in the Adirondack Park. I wonder if my friend Stefany Miano was able to go. She was very sick with cancer and lifelong she was crippled by Polio. But she was intelligent and devout, even “ghost wrote” for the pastors.
Jul 4, 8:00 PM
Ruth (Guest): She did not mention the pilgrimage.
0 PM
Carol (Guest): Oh yes Simone! Wish I could be a fly on the wall
Jul 4, 8:00 PM
Simone (Guest): Whenever I want to pray for the participants, I am feeling weirdly weak. And cannot get my thoughts together for prayer.
Jul 4, 8:00 PM
VisitationSiste: Of course we will pray Simone!
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Simone (Guest): Thank you for your readiness to pray. 1 PM
Carol (Guest): I will oray extra hard Simone. Ask your guardian angel and St Michael for help
Jul 4, 8:01 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, Simone, I would be happy to pray for you and the Bible Study. There are some very good books
02 PM
Simone (Guest): Thank you Carol, Ruth and Sister. I do feel, that I need “holy back up” on this one
Jul 4, 8:02 PM
Carol (Guest): Have you heard of the book by Deacon Alex Jones? A convert who wrote the most impassioned plea for the Eucharist I’ve ever seen
Jul 4, 8:03 PM
Simone (Guest): No, I have not. I collect books on the Eucharist. and will put that on my list. Thank you
Jul 4, 8:03 PM
Simone (Guest): It is often the converted Protestants who are so passionate for the Eucharist. Because we have lived so long without it
Jul 4, 8:03 PM
Carol (Guest): He used to teach at our religious Ed conferences. Every year we’d be picketed by people trying to save us. Held go out and debate with them
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Ruth (Guest): about the Eucharist. Do you know the Protestant convert to Catholicism who is now considered one of the best contemporary Scripture scholars in the Catholic Church. His wife joined him when he converted, too. The Eucharist and the Catholic understanding of the Eucharist — which eventually he realized through Scripture — were at the center of his conversion. , 8:05 PM
Simone (Guest): Do you mean Scott Hahn? 05 PM
Carol (Guest): I think it is Scott Hahn PM
Simone (Guest): you could also mean my husband ))) athokic viewpoints
Jul 4, 8:06 PM
VisitationSiste: PM
Did you hear we are to have a2 year Eucharistic rebibal in our country?
Jul 4, 8:06 PM
Simone (Guest): We are using Brent Pitre’s material
Jul 4, 8:06 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes! Your recollection is better than mine.
Jul 4, 8:06 PM
Carol (Guest): 😊Simone
athokic viewpoints
Jul 4, 8:06 PM
VisitationSiste: PM
Did you hear we are to have a2 year Eucharistic rebibal in our country?
Jul 4, 8:06 PM
Simone (Guest): We are using Brent Pitre’s material
Jul 4, 8:06 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes! Your recollection is better than mine.
Jul 4, 8:06 PM
Carol (Guest): 😊Simone
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Simone (Guest): what? What does that mean? 2 year Eucharistic revival? Please explain sister
Jul 4, 8:07 PM
Carol (Guest): We are? I know it was talked about and for some reason generated controversy
Jul 4, 8:07 PM
VisitationSiste: The Bishops Conference or something decided it to light the fires of the Eucharist summer 2022 to 2024
Jul 4, 8:07 PM
Simone (Guest): oh my goodness. I would love that here in Canada
Jul 4, 8:08 PM
Simone (Guest): Can you explain that sister please?
08 PM
VisitationSiste: I have to look where I read it. They dont want a program but get the people believing in the Real Presence
Jul 4, 8:09 PM
Simone (Guest): yes, yes and yes
Jul 4, 8:09 PM
Simone (Guest): I have laid down most of my work for the next 12 months to concentrate more on the teaching on the Eucharist.
Jul 4, 8:09 PM
VisitationSiste: https://www.thecatholictelegraph.com/eucharistic-revival-to-begin-in-2022-we-want-to-start-a-fire-not-a-program/75671
8:12 PM
Simone (Guest): I think it is arrogant to say that God only loves people in the Catholic Church.
Jul 4, 8:12 PM
Carol (Guest): Wow, Simone, what a journey you’ve had
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Ruth (Guest): Wow! I’d love to be a fly on the wall when the two of you give the course.
Jul 4, 8:12 PM
Simone (Guest): lol.. yes Carol. Never boring with the Holy Spirit
Jul 4, 8:13 PM
Carol (Guest): But if we removed division and just said Christ’s Church, it could mean all with Christ at thecenter?
Jul 4, 8:13 PM
Simone (Guest): thanks Ruth.
Jul 4, 8:13 PM
Simone (Guest): Carol and Ruth.. if you are interested in this material I can send you a link
Jul 4, 8:13 PM
Carol (Guest): I’ll say! She say while giggling
Jul 4, 8:13 PM
Ruth (Guest): Thursday night. Good! Prayer back up here.
Jul 4, 8:13 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes please send the link!
Jul 4, 8:13 PM
Simone (Guest): I need your email addresses ladies.
Jul 4, 8:15 PM
Simone (Guest): The problem Carol, is that it has different meaning for people – what it means to have “Christ in the centre” es, I see your point. But aren’t we all His in spite of our differences?
Jul 4, 8:16 PM
Simone (Guest): Everything that is outside of sacramental theology – is outside of God’s grace eventually
Jul 4, 8:17 PM
Simone (Guest): again – what does it mean ” to be HIS”?
Jul 4, 8:17 PM
Simone (Guest): Yes, we are ALL LOVED.
7 PM
Simone (Guest): meaning that GOD always always extends His Sacred Invitation – to be with us. to be in this amazing love relationship 8 PM
Carol (Guest): We all belong to Him in spite of our flaws and sins when He chose us we chose Him back
Jul 4, 8:18 PM
Simone (Guest): BUT – The bond is through the Sacraments and His Spirit. Not just the Spirit and not just the Sacraments
Jul 4, 8:18 PM
Ruth (Guest): I am so grateful for Vatican II. I do think the statement is not so much arrogant as just untrue. The FULLNESS of the truth is protected by the Church. But you cannot put the Holy Spirit in a cage! And everywhere where Truth is sought earnestly, God will reveal to that person — whether he/she recognizes it or not, at least part of that truth — perhaps even leading to accepting the Church’s guidance.
Jul 4, 8:18 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes, I see what you are saying
Jul 4, 8:19 PM
Simone (Guest): Yes Ruth, I agree, that GOD always reveals Himself to someone who earnestly seeks HIM. Always.. no matter what. PM
Ruth (Guest): What pleases me most is that Scripture scholars of of all the main
Jul 4, 8:20 PM
VisitationSiste: He loves us all!
0 PM
Simone (Guest): We had a highschool friend of our daughter over here this afternoon. He is Moslem. But somehow he is fascinated with the Catholic Faith .He was sitting down with my husband and was discussing the nature of GOD – it was so beautiful.. He really seeks. God will show Him the answers of the questions of his heart
Jul 4, 8:20 PM
Ruth (Guest): Christian denominations are coming closer and closer to understanding Biblical truths in the same way. There is far less disagreement among scholars than in the past.
Jul 4, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): Interesting Ruth. I did not know that.
Jul 4, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): Maybe the new technology allows for better exchange for thoughts. It is not so much “where you live” 8:21 PM
Carol (Guest): I am so glad to hear that!
Jul 4, 8:22 PM
Simone (Guest): Last weekend Peter’s sister and her husband were here. We also had another priest over. My brother in law asked a lot of questions about the Catholic Church -and I said to my sister in Law – ” Be careful, he is on the way to become Catholic”.. Her face was full of horror as I said that.
Jul 4, 8:22 PM
Simone (Guest): Later she wrote me an email
Jul 4, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): saying ‘ Simone – as we drove home.. and passed our church – where we worship now for over 35 years – I realized how much I love our church”
Jul 4, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): I love my sister in law.. Really do. She is an amazing woman. But she clearly wanted to give me a sign.
Jul 4, 8:24 PM
Carol (Guest): I think God will give her the sign!
Jul 4, 8:24 PM
Simone (Guest): Now.. I was considering writing back ” Jan, I know you love your church. These are people who went with you through ups and downs in her life. This is a true treasure. But the thing is.. I love THE church so much. Not necessarily “my church” ( parish) . And that’s the difference I see. PM
Simone (Guest): In protestant circles.. you LOVE the specific cluster of people who worship and you walk together in life -and you support each other with the love of GOD. Wonderful. Truly wonderful.. and I missed that very much when I came into the Catholic Church. But I also know that I depend on God now more and not so much on others in my walk of faith PM
Ruth (Guest): Sound’s very much like Scott Hahn’s story. And I’d be concerned if it is the BUILDING or the congregation — the warm fuzzy feeling that many Protestant congregations are just better at evoking than Catholic parishes.
Jul 4, 8:26 PM
Carol (Guest): I think Catholic parishes are trying to encourage that community more now
Jul 4, 8:27 PM
VisitationSiste: You have unique gifts for evangelizing Simone May God guide you
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Simone (Guest): not sure about evangelizing Sister – more like ‘ open mouth syndrome”
Jul 4, 8:27 PM
Simone (Guest): But thank you.
Jul 4, 8:28 PM
Simone (Guest): Ruth.. I agree with what you wrote and Carol . also yes.. to you – I see also many more initiatives to make parishoners walk together in their faith
Jul 4, 8:29 PM
Simone (Guest): Gosh.. how can an hour go so fast?
Jul 4, 8:30 PM
Ruth (Guest): What I find interesting in many of these comments is that when we were talking about finding THE TRUTH, immediately the discussion was about God’s LOVE for everyone, especially the honest seeker. And precisely that is THE MAIN MESSAGE, THE TRUTH that has been conveyed to us by Jesus Christ’s Incarnation,teachings, Death and Resurrection.
Jul 4, 8:30 PM
Carol (Guest): Because parish is really made of smaller groups like families or Bible studies that then worship together