| St. Francis asks (perhaps rhetorically) St. Jane: “what need is there to speak like this to a soul that knows me as she knows herself?” As much as someone knows us, why can we never exhaust the knowledge of ourselves to each other? We usually only think of the saints as perfectly holy, but discuss when he mentions his own spiritual growth by saying: “it seems to me that till now I have not had as much ardor and zeal in the service of his immense Goodness as I should have had.” The Huegonots were essentially French Protestants (specifically from the root of Calvinism). Discuss a key doctrine that differentiates Calvinism from Catholicism (e.g., double predestination). St. Francis mentions that he is strengthened in faith by working with “lost sheep.” How can this be so? Connected to that, he says he realizes “that I must guard this precious God-given gift in a heart made wholly acceptable by devotion.” Why is it not enough to just know the truth but that it should be strengthened/reinforced through devotion? 2 PM SrSusan (Guest): I think re q 1 that we dont often know the depth of our own souls Dec 5, 7:43 PM SrSusan (Guest): so how can we share it with each other Dec 5, 7:43 PM SrSusan (Guest): unless the other sees things we do not see in ourselves Dec 5, 7:43 PM Dawn (Guest): thank you , this is the reply Dec 5, 7:44 PM SrSusan (Guest): which one Dec 5, 7:44 PM Ruth (Guest): Seems to me a good teacher or coach does see things in us we do to see in ourselves. PM Dawn (Guest): all three. could it be said, we can only know the depth of another as we know ourself? PM SrSusan (Guest): good question have to think about that not sure 7 PM Dawn (Guest): interesting how question is worded, deep. the ” as much as someone knows us, why can we never exhaust the knowlwdge of ourselves to each other? ” Dec 5, 7:47 PM Dawn (Guest): will ponder this PM SrSusan (Guest): in a way we can get an insight into another that we never saw in ourselves PM SrSusan (Guest): q2 2. We usually only think of the saints as perfectly holy, but discuss when he mentions his own spiritual growth by saying: “it seems to me that till now I have not had as much ardor and zeal in the service of his immense Goodness as I should have had.” M Ruth 2 (Guest): I think of the Saints as becoming holy. Not perfect to start with, but allowing God’s grace to perfect them over time. Dec 5, 7:52 PM Dawn (Guest): I believe we are here to continue growing Holy and closer to God, not exhausting to an end or thinking we have acheived the ultimate Holiness PM SrSusan (Guest): All saints grow over time and so do we if we accept grace Dec 5, 7:54 PM Ruth 2 (Guest): And the wonderful thing is that the Saints are so very different from one another — both in their strengths and their inherent weaknesses. 4 PM SrSusan (Guest): and saints feel their weaknesses keenly |
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Ruth 2 (Guest): but do not allow those weaknesses to cause them to despair even those that they are unable to overcome. PM
Ruth 2 (Guest): I don’t know what Paul
Dec 5, 7:56 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes, thank you both.
Dec 5, 7:56 PM
SrSusan (Guest): so true and that is one of the secrets to sanctity that humility that prevents despair :57 PM
Ruth 2 (Guest): ‘s thorn in the side was. He prayed to have it removed but it wasn’t — still he was assured that God’s grace was sufficient for him. PM
SrSusan (Guest): St. Francis mentions that he is strengthened in faith by working with “lost sheep.” How can this be so PM
Dec 5, 7:59 PM
Dawn (Guest): Jesus says he was not called to help the righteous but to be with sinners, sorry not quoting Scripture
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Ruth 2 (Guest): Maybe because to try to share the Faith he must notice its beauty and effectiveness even more. :00 PM
Ruth 2 (Guest): Maybe because to try to share the Faith he must notice its beauty and effectiveness even more.
Dec 5, 8:01 PM
Ruth 2 (Guest): And must allow God to work further transformation in himself, so that he can SHOW this beauty to the non-believer.
Dec 5, 8:01 PM
Dawn (Guest): Luke 5:32 32 I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Dec 5, 8:01 PM
SrSusan (Guest): He might recognize the beauty of the gift of faith even more in the presence of the absence of faith, if that is how one describes lost sheep
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Dawn (Guest): Beautiful, Sr 8:03 PM
Dawn (Guest): This is spiritual direction
Dec 5, 8:03 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I think of Pope Francis and the phrase the smell of the sheep
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SrSusan (Guest): St Francis de Sales was an excellent spiritual director and esp worked with women penitients 5 PM
Dawn (Guest): we are so blessed to have our Catholic faith, the teachings. the traditions
Dec 5, 8:05 PM
Dawn (Guest): its good to know this about St Francis
Dec 5, 8:05 PM
SrSusan (Guest): by the way here is a lecture on Salesian spirituality from this past week https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAuUqe1k-VQ&t=11s
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Ruth 2 (Guest): Thanks. Clicked on it so it won’t disappear by the time we finish here.
Dec 5, 8:07 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you.
Dec 5, 8:07 PM
SrSusan (Guest): St Francis says he realizes “that I must guard this precious God-given gift in a heart made wholly acceptable by devotion.” Why is it not enough to just know the truth but that it should be strengthened/reinforced through devotion?
Dec 5, 8:08 PM
SrSusan (Guest): You are welcome We watched it last night first 9 minutes are not the lecture but it starts about 9 min in
Dec 5, 8:08 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Hi Anne
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Ruth 2 (Guest): The right relationship of man to God demands devotion. Note: he does not say “devotions.” PM
SrSusan (Guest): great observATtion
Dec 5, 8:09 PM
SrSusan (Guest): more like from Introduction to a DEVOUT life
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SrSusan (Guest): in a way devotion is like dedication, or commitment
Dec 5, 8:11 PM
Ruth 2 (Guest): It is not the increasing of words or even pious practices, though these have there place, but complete submission, abandonment to God’s Will.
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SrSusan (Guest): yes! PM
SrSusan (Guest): knowing the truth and living the truth (which is Jesus) is quite different12 PM
Ruth 2 (Guest): Yes. Good connection, Sr. And I think this letter was written AFTER Introduction to the Devote Life, so surely he was no “novice” in devotion, BUT he saw that there were ways in which he could grow. , 8:13 PM
SrSusan (Guest): and thru devotion, grace will increase and that in itself will help guard the heart
Dec 5, 8:14 PM
Ruth 2 (Guest): Hi Anne. Sorry I did not greet you. Welcome!
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Dawn (Guest): Hi Anne
Dec 5, 8:15 PM
Anne (Guest): Thank you and happy to be here this evening
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SrSusan (Guest): The last question is difficult but I will post I skipped it earlier
Dec 5, 8:16 PM
SrSusan (Guest): 3. The Huegonots were essentially French Protestants (specifically from the root of Calvinism). Discuss a key doctrine that differentiates Calvinism from Catholicism (e.g., double predestination).
Dec 5, 8:16 PM
Dawn (Guest): I have copied all of this chat , sometimes, often, such good insights come and helpful to think about later. Our chat group Sr is surely a grace
Dec 5, 8:17 PM
Dawn (Guest): and a gift!
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8:18 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I have heard of predestination but do not know what double predestination is
Dec 5, 8:19 PM
SrSusan (Guest): However that was one of St Francis early crises, dealing with the concept
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SrSusan (Guest): Predetination would indicate to me a lack of human freedom :20 PM
Dawn (Guest): opposite of free will
Dec 5, 8:21 PM
Anne (Guest): I wonder also what the double predestination entails
Dec 5, 8:21 PM
SrSusan (Guest): yes Dawn
Dec 5, 8:21 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Maybe I can look it up
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SrSusan (Guest): Maybe I can look it up
Dec 5, 8:21 PM
Ruth 2 (Guest): I’m looking.
Dec 5, 8:22 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Double predestination is the idea that not only does God choose some to be saved, he also creates some people who will be damned.[9]
Dec 5, 8:22 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I would say that is a heresy
Dec 5, 8:23 PM
Ruth 2 (Guest): Eeeeeeee! That would not be a GOOD God.
Dec 5, 8:23 PM
SrSusan (Guest): or rather if interpreted that He creates them to be damned, not if they become so
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SrSusan (Guest): Not a pleasant topic for sure :24 PM
Dawn (Guest): I see Thomas Aquinas writes much on this subject.
Dec 5, 8:25 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I did not know that WhAT did he say
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Dawn (Guest): Would this be the hearsay then? I keyed search thomas aquinas predistination and there are many websites, but did not read any
Dec 5, 8:26 PM
Ruth 2 (Guest): I wonder if there were a lot of suicides among the Huegonots.
Dec 5, 8:26 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Guess I will have to read up on it
Dec 5, 8:27 PM
Dawn (Guest): me too!
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SrSusan (Guest): Anyway i hope your Advent is going well
Dec 5, 8:28 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I hope to be able to return now regularly to chat
Dec 5, 8:28 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Have a blessed week!
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Dawn (Guest): You were here the whole time! thank you Sr Susan <3
Dec 5, 8:29 PM
SrSusan (Guest): You are welcome!!