How can St. Francis claim “what real happiness it is for a soul dedicated to God to be sorely tried by tribulation before it leaves this life”?Is all the suffering in this world supposed to be viewed from the standpoint of: “well, at least we get to go to heaven”? In other words, is the promise of heaven just some excuse for God to get us to deal with suffering?What would love look like if it there were not trials to endure? And how does that differ from what love looks like in heaven where there are no tri
Jan 29, 9:18 AM
trials and tribulations to endure?
In light of this letter, discuss Hebrews 4:15, “For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sinning.”
las
Jan 29, 9:18 AM
SrSusan (Guest): Sun chat 730 est Jan 30
Jan 29, 9:19 AM
SrSusan (Guest): newsletter for chat: http://www.icontact-archive.com/archive?c=1029793&f=1988&s=2046&m=630990&t=44f0d18c19339967b1be43b205c1596fa07d3b2574e5f4560987969cb886fdda
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Jan 30, 7:26 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Hi Carol
Jan 30, 7:26 PM
Simone (Guest): Hello Sister! Hello Carol!
Jan 30, 7:26 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Hi Simone!
4 online
Carol
Simone
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:30 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Sounds like a trial or tribulation! Fits into the first Q: How can St. Francis claim “what real happiness it is for a soul dedicated to God to be sorely tried by tribulation before it leaves this life”?
Carol (Guest): It is another paradox. We are full of them! The trial helps us grow in virtue, which makes us more like Jesus:32 PM
Simone (Guest): I must say, I shuttered when I read this2 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I guess we are tired of all our tribulations these days- need some lightheartedness:33 PM
Simone (Guest): I was quite sick last week.. and had horrible intestinal pain.. Thinking that I would have that for a long time – like a friend of mine actual does – made me shiver. I am willing to live through GOD for GOD and with GOD – but physical pain for the rest of my life.. I would need so so much grace for that
Jan 30, 7:33 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Are you better now?
:33 PM
Carol (Guest): Was it flu?
Jan 30, 7:33 PM
Simone (Guest): I am. Thanks. not sure what it was. But it was no fun
Jan 30, 7:34 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I also had a low day this Thursday but better now
34 PM
Simone (Guest): and Carol has been so sick recently.. so we all can relate right now to physical pain –
Jan 30, 7:34 PM
Carol (Guest): Is a pandemic a tribulation meant for the whole world?
Jan 30, 7:35 PM
Simone (Guest): praise be to GOD
Jan 30, 7:35 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I will erase that reference though – the world does not need to know!
Jan 30, 7:35 PM
Simone (Guest): Carol, I just talked with a friend about this actually today
Jan 30, 7:35 PM
Carol (Guest): Im glad you are better!
Jan 30, 7:35 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Thanks! 36 PM
Simone (Guest): but – back to the first comment – I think it is true.. it does bring out a virtuous life, when we are tried through tribulation. I just find physical pain the worst – long term
Jan 30, 7:36 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I think it very well may be for the whole worldPM
Simone (Guest): interesting though.. the pandemic does not bring the best out in me I find. Au contrair – I find, that I have to fight much harder to keep my spiritual rhythm up0, 7:37 PM
Carol (Guest): It does seem to bring out the worst in people
PM
Simone (Guest): but pain – in any way – emotionally – physically etc.. always makes us look in different places .. and that’s the real treasure – when we start looking in places to find GOD, where we would not have looked without the pain
Jan 30, 7:38 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Nearly 2 years so people have lost their patience
:38 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Nearly 2 years so people have lost their patience
Jan 30, 7:39 PM
Simone (Guest): Canada – is on the edge here.. with the mandatory vaccinations now for most things
Jan 30, 7:39 PM
SrSusan (Guest): That’s a good point Simone- we can find God thru pain
Jan 30, 7:39 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Yes I just heard about that- is it different in Quebec
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39 PM
Simone (Guest): C.S. Lewis says – that God whispers to us in our pleasures and he shouts to us in our pain39 PM
Carol (Guest): because pain majes us rely on Him0 PM
Simone (Guest): yes Carol -the illusion of self-reliance melts quickly in the presence of pain40 PM
Carol (Guest): Just as this pandemic has on a large scale
Jan 30, 7:40 PM
SrSusan (Guest): the gratitude wwells up more when we are helped by another in our pain
1 PM
Simone (Guest): hmm.. when I think of pain, I actually never think that someone is helping me or can help me:41 PM
Simone (Guest): hmm.. when I think of pain, I actually never think that someone is helping me or can help me
Jan 30, 7:41 PM
Simone (Guest): strange – that I do not go there at all.. have to look at that closer this week
Jan 30, 7:41 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Maybe thats what helps to cause the low spirits
42 PM
Simone (Guest): to look for help? or community?
Jan 30, 7:42 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I think of the saints who Console Jesus- its the love that helps one to bear the pain
Jan 30, 7:42 PM
Carol (Guest): We tend to isolate ourselves in protection maybe
M
SrSusan (Guest): q2 Is all the suffering in this world supposed to be viewed from the standpoint of: “well, at least we get to go to heaven”? In other words, is the promise of heaven just some excuse for God to get us to deal with suffering0, 7:43 PM
Simone (Guest): Excuse might not be the best word
Jan 30, 7:44 PM
SrSusan (Guest): God would not do that
Jan 30, 7:44 PM
Simone (Guest): Exactly
Jan 30, 7:44 PM
SrSusan (Guest): But maybe people think like that
4 online
Carol
Simone
1 viewer
:44 PM
Simone (Guest): definetely
Jan 30, 7:44 PM
Carol (Guest): Well, from our point if view it can seem that way
:45 PM
Carol (Guest): But it’s not the way if faith
Jan 30, 7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): I think, that God never had planned pain – it was not included in plan A
Jan 30, 7:45 PM
SrSusan (Guest): The saints frequently combine suffering and love together
Jan 30, 7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): But like with everything – he can take things – and use it for our good
4 online
Carol
Simone
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7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): suffering can be a form of self- emptying30, 7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): which why it might be so powerful sometimes
Jan 30, 7:45 PM
SrSusan (Guest): did not think of that
47 PM
Carol (Guest): Nowadays if you tell people suffering can be good they think there’s something wrong with you
Jan 30, 7:47 PM
SrSusan (Guest): but suffering and the thought of heaven do also occur in saints’ writings
48 PM
Simone (Guest): I think, we only can engage freely. – and give ourselves over to suffering, when we know that there is an end – our contribution of love is – that we allow GOD to say when the end is.. either here on earth – or then in heaven. :48 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I believe that, yes
4 online
:49 PM
Carol (Guest): And unending suffering means we kept it for ourselves and did not give it up to God 30, 7:49 PM
SrSusan (Guest): interesting observation0 PM
Simone (Guest): I am still not fully sure – if I understand the whole concept of ” offering it up”. I am closer to understanding – but not full
Jan 30, 7:50 PM
SrSusan (Guest): it is more like unityingh our suffering to Jesus’ suffering
Jan 30, 7:50 PM
SrSusan (Guest): uniting
1 PM
Carol (Guest): And then He can make something of it
Jan 30, 7:51 PM
SrSusan (Guest): offer it up is more remote
4 online
Simone
Carol
1 viewer
:51 PM
Simone (Guest): yes, I read that – but still.. to unite a finite event to an eternal process- is not the easiest thing to understand
Jan 30, 7:51 PM
Carol (Guest): He already felt it on the cross
51 PM
SrSusan (Guest): everything after Christ is in the eternal now
Jan 30, 7:52 PM
SrSusan (Guest): He came in the Fullness of time
Jan 30, 7:52 PM
SrSusan (Guest): after that all we go thru touches eternity, Christ is eternal
53 PM
Simone (Guest): yes, I am slowly starting to really understand it.. and when we unite it to Christ’s suffering – our suffering becomes redemptive for the world, right
Jan 30, 7:53 PM
Simone (Guest): ?
Jan 30, 7:53 PM
SrSusan (Guest): yes
54 PM
SrSusan (Guest): q: What would love look like if it there were not trials to endure? And how does that differ from what love looks like in heaven where there are no tri
trials and tribulations to endure?
Jan 30, 7:54 PM
Simone (Guest): I have this visual.. that – when someone sins – somehow there is always pain coming out of that.. imagine.. a room full of people and they throw black balls around..and somehow you get hit with one of these black balls –
Jan 30, 7:54 PM
Simone (Guest): and you have two options now
54 PM
Simone (Guest): I have this visual.. that – when someone sins – somehow there is always pain coming out of that.. imagine.. a room full of people and they throw black balls around..and somehow you get hit with one of these black balls –
Jan 30, 7:54 PM
Simone (Guest): and you have two options now
Jan 30, 7:55 PM
Carol (Guest): To throw it back, it to catch it and let it drop
Jan 30, 7:55 PM
Simone (Guest): you can throw the black ball back into the room and it will hit someone else.. or you accept the black ball – where you are – and give it to Jesus – outside of the room.. that will sooner or later empty the room of these black balls – which stands for redemption or better said.. salvation
Jan 30, 7:55 PM
Simone (Guest): I am not sure if that makes sense to you. .sorry – it’s a picture I got recently
4 online
57 PM
Carol (Guest): It does make sense
Jan 30, 7:57 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I ,like the image
Simone
1 viewer
Simone 58 PM
Simone (Guest): interesting question
Carol 59 PM
SrSusan (Guest): especially love on earth vs heaven
:59 PM
Carol (Guest): Love in heaven is pure movement
Jan 30, 7:59 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Hmmn tell more 0 PM
Carol (Guest): That it flows like light from soul to soul with nothing to stop it and no action needed
Jan 30, 8:00 PM
Simone (Guest): if there were not trials and tribulations – it would be harder to love – would we even be able to really love? Because love usually costs – which is a form of suffering – so – if there is no chance even for pain – what would our willingness to suffer be worth? nothing
5 online 01 PM
Simone (Guest): I am talking about earthly love , 8:01 PM
SrSusan (Guest): so a stillness yet a movement Carol?
02 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes, it flows without moving 2 PM
Simone (Guest): as for heaven – when we arrive in heaven.. and you see I am saying “WHEN” not “IF” – everything in us will be able to receive and give love – we will be so absorbed with GOD – the eternal love – that pain and tribulations would not help us to love more – so it is not needed 30, 8:03 PM
Carol (Guest): We won’t even remember what they are 03 PM
Simone (Guest): oh my – that truly IS heaven then 0, 8:04 PM
SrSusan (Guest): beautiful thoughts and realities 4 PM
Simone (Guest): but wait… if the Saints are in heaven.. and they answer our prayers… they ARE reminded of pain.. , 8:05 PM
Carol (Guest): Oh, now that’s true!
5 PM
Simone (Guest): but maybe the overwhelming love they experience fills everything with so much HOPE.. that it does not feel like pain – or the angle is different how they approach it
Jan 30, 8:05 PM
SrSusan (Guest): So mysteriousPM
SrSusan (Guest): q , discuss Hebrews 4:15, “For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sinning.” :07 PM
SrSusan (Guest): different topic but from heaven’s perspective I wonder0, 8:08 PM
SrSusan (Guest): He sympathizes with our weak love though His was always strong
:09 PM
Carol (Guest): And He knows how to help us, and at the same time help everyone around us:10 PM
SrSusan (Guest): One could almost rephrase it to He sympathizes with our lack of ability to love completely unconditionally butHe always lloved unconditionally
11 PM
Simone (Guest): I love that12 PM
Simone (Guest): I wonder what the word ‘ sympathizes” really means. I mean GOD is not sentimental.. I wonder, if it means more – like “identifies”.. like the High Priest identified himself with the sins of the Israelites
Jan 30, 8:13 PM
Carol (Guest): Jesus is also the lamb of sacrifice as well as the High Priest
Jan 30, 8:13 PM
SrSusan (Guest): yes identifies or understands
Jan 30, 8:13 PM
Simone (Guest): yes- full identification – full taking on of sin
8:14 PM
Simone (Guest): understanding is a cognitive thing – identifying – comes from a place of “identity” – anyways.. I have to think more about that
Jan 30, 8:14 PM
SrSusan (Guest): that makes sense
Jan 30, 8:14 PM
SrSusan (Guest): but also an understanding heart
Jan 30, 8:14 PM
Carol (Guest): Its something more than what we usually think of
4 online 30, 8:15 PM
Simone (Guest): I so need His understanding heart0, 8:15 PM
Simone (Guest): yes, I like the “understanding heart”
Jan 30, 8:15 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes, like our faith must move from head to heart, so must our understanding
:16 PM
Simone (Guest): Jesus understands with His sacred Heart our human heart – with all its longings and suffering 8 PM
SrSusan (Guest): last q What does it mean when St. Francis said, “Be content with gently willing all that God wills for you”?
9 PM
Simone (Guest): I understand – that – whatever GOD wills in our lives – we should give our consent –
Jan 30, 8:20 PM
Carol (Guest): We should abandon ourselves to divine providence
Jan 30, 8:20 PM
Simone (Guest): with pain – it is hard to say – cause there is always the question” Is God’s will to heal? or is GOD’s will to lead me to deeper love through this enduring?
, 8:20 PM
SrSusan (Guest): we only know by going thru it
Jan 30, 8:20 PM
Simone (Guest): right
30, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): I think – St. Frances de Sales says – not to stand in “divine entitlement” and say ” I deserve better” – but to say like Mary ‘ They will be done” 8:22 PM
Carol (Guest): And our society is so entitled 22 PM
Simone (Guest): the thing is – that we can “train” this gentle willingness in daily life I think. It is not just in the big “GOD assignement :23 PM
Carol (Guest): No, our biggest assignment is the day to day
Jan 30, 8:23 PM
SrSusan (Guest): the little virtues
Jan 30, 8:23 PM
SrSusan (Guest): patience, gentleness humility
Jan 30, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): yes.. we are full circle back to St. Frances de Sales
:23 PM
SrSusan (Guest): did you get the notice this is a jubilee year for St Francis 4 PM
Simone (Guest): YES.. got the notice
Jan 30, 8:24 PM
Carol (Guest): Oh, no I didn’t
Jan 30, 8:24 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I ll see if I can post here
Jan 30, 8:24 PM
Simone (Guest): Sister Susan.. can I quickly ask you. If I would like to read on the “prayer methods” of Salesian Spirituality – is there something special you would recommend?
Jan 30, 8:24 PM
SrSusan (Guest): http://www.icontact-archive.com/archive?c=1029793&f=1988&s=2046&m=630854&t=44f0d18c19339967b1be43b205c1596fa07d3b2574e5f4560987969cb886fdda
Jan 30, 8:24 PM
SrSusan (Guest): The Introduction Devout life
Jan 30, 8:25 PM
SrSusan (Guest): has prayer methods
Jan 30, 8:25 PM
SrSusan (Guest): above link is jubilee year
n 30, 8:25 PM
Carol (Guest): Thank you! 8:26 PM
Simone (Guest): I understand.. The INtroduction though has mostly St. Francis de Sales way of prayer – but not so much St. Jane’s.. who was much more leaning to wordless prayer ( more Carmelite).. is that not part of Salesian Spirituality and prayer life?
Jan 30, 8:26 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Oh jane’s yes there is a book on prayer from St Jane- let me look in bookcase
Jan 30, 8:26 PM
Simone (Guest): I find that St. Francis de Sales – loved more praying with imagination – St. Jane more without
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
Simone (Guest): Oh. Sister.. if you could find something.. I would so love that
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
SrSusan (Guest): called St Chantal on Prayer
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
Carol (Guest): Imagination sounds kike St. Ignatius
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
SrSusan (Guest): by Rev A Durand
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
Simone (Guest): yes.. and SFDS – loved his Exercises –
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
Carol (Guest): Like
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
SrSusan (Guest): St Paul editions
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
Simone (Guest): thanks Sister – writing that down right now
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
SrSusan (Guest): 1967
Jan 30, 8:28 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Daughters of St paul
26 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Oh jane’s yes there is a book on prayer from St Jane- let me look in bookcase
Jan 30, 8:26 PM
Simone (Guest): I find that St. Francis de Sales – loved more praying with imagination – St. Jane more without
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
Simone (Guest): Oh. Sister.. if you could find something.. I would so love that
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
SrSusan (Guest): called St Chantal on Prayer
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
Carol (Guest): Imagination sounds kike St. Ignatius
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
SrSusan (Guest): by Rev A Durand
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
Simone (Guest): yes.. and SFDS – loved his Exercises –
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
Carol (Guest): Like
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
SrSusan (Guest): St Paul editions
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
Simone (Guest): thanks Sister – writing that down right now
Jan 30, 8:27 PM
SrSusan (Guest): 1967
Jan 30, 8:28 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Daughters of St paul
Jan 30, 8:28 PM
SrSusan (Guest): may be out of print but let me know
Jan 30, 8:28 PM
SrSusan (Guest): maybe on line
Jan 30, 8:28 PM
Simone (Guest): will let you know. The Daughters of St. Paul are here in Toronto.
Jan 30, 8:29 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Cant zerox it I dont think
Jan 30, 8:29 PM
SrSusan (Guest): so if you come on retreat you can read it
Jan 30, 8:29 PM
Simone (Guest): if it is out of print.. you would be allowed.. but a lot of work
Jan 30, 8:29 PM
SrSusan (Guest): but look aroundf
Jan 30, 8:29 PM
SrSusan (Guest): also DeSales U library may have it or another library
Jan 30, 8:29 PM
Simone (Guest): is that a word of prophecy? that I will be FINALLY able to come to the retreat?
Jan 30, 8:29 PM
SrSusan (Guest): or De sales Resources at embraced by God
Jan 30, 8:29 PM
Simone (Guest): I might be in the Visitation monastery in Vienna in April / May
Jan 30, 8:29 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Opening up in March we hope
Jan 30, 8:29 PM
SrSusan (Guest): wonderful!
Jan 30, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): how far are you away from the airport?
Jan 30, 8:30 PM
Carol (Guest): Oh Simone, how wonderful