St. Francis mentions that he has the gist of his sermon in his head. We often might envision that saints and doctors of the Church just spontaneously could say and write the profound things they have written. How can it help us to remember that the saints were human just like us, who needed to plan and pray and grow in holiness?Discuss the analogy St. Francis uses to discuss the “feeling” of faith (or lack thereof) being compared to a child who has an inheritance but cannot use it yet. Does this make sense
M
Visitation Sr (Guest): Does it seem “fair”?Discuss this part of the prayer written by St. Francis: “No, Lord, I want no more joy in my faith, nor in my hope nor in my charity, than to be able to say in very truth although without tasting or feeling it, that I would die rather than give up my faith, my hope, my charity. Alas, Lord, if it is your good pleasure that I should find no pleasure in the practice of the virtues which your grace has bestowed on me, I agree to this with all my will although against what my will feels.” Does
Does this go against the joy that is mentioned by Paul and by Jesus that we should/will have as Christians?What is the “superior part of the will” that St. Francis mentions? What can we do to cultivate a stronger resolve with this part of the will?St. Francis mentions how we need to accept times of darkness, bitterness, and distress. He says: “How fortunate we are to be the slaves of this great God who made himself a slave for us!” Does all of this go against what Jesus said in John 15:15: “No longer do I c
Mar 27, 6:06 AM
Visitation Sr (Guest): No longer do I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends”?
Mar 27, 6:06 AM
Visitation Sr (Guest): Sun chat Mar 27 730 pm est
Mar 27, 6:07 AM
Visitation Sr (Guest): newsletter for chat: http://www.icontact-archive.com/archive?c=1029793&f=1988&s=2046&m=633901&t=44f0d18c19339967b1be43b205c1596fa07d3b2574e5f4560987969cb886fdda
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VisitationSiste: St. Francis mentions that he has the gist of his sermon in his head. We often might envision that saints and doctors of the Church just spontaneously could say and write the profound things they have written. How can it help us to remember that the saints were human just like us, who needed to plan and pray and grow in holiness?
Mar 27, 7:37 PM
Simone (Guest): Thanks Elena
Mar 27, 7:38 PM
Elena (Guest): Haha I hear priests say this a lot, actually. It’s good to know the saints struggled and had to go through all the human stuff. I feel so completely inept (esp. right now, going through a dark time).
27, 7:40 PM
Simone (Guest): I never assumed that Saints “spontaneously” say and write things. I think they are constantly “pregnant” with Holy thoughts – and then one day – they give birth to them. That’s how I envision this. I think the difference is, that they give space and time – to these holy – germinating – thoughts :42 PM
Elena (Guest): The space and time for the holy thoughts to germinate. That resonates. How to do that in daily life. 7, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: difficult unless we are very centered in Jesus
Mar 27, 7:43 PM
Simone (Guest): I think prayer is the womb – or the “soil” – prayer of quiet or prayer of the heart
3 PM
Dawn (Guest): when the Holy Spirit is moving thoughts come in a different way. the Saints may have been more in tune to listening
Mar 27, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: very true
3 PM
Dawn (Guest): when the Holy Spirit is moving thoughts come in a different way. the Saints may have been more in tune to listening
Mar 27, 7:43 PM
VisitationSiste: very true
:44 PM
Elena (Guest): How do we become that centered in Jesus with the whirlwind and tragedy of life around us? This is something I have not mastered, try as I might. I have days or weeks when I am, then suddenly I’m out in the black again. 5 PM
VisitationSiste: How about after you have been on a retreat- does that help 45 PM
Ruth (Guest): Elena, I can appreciate that.
Mar 27, 7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): for once, I do not watch TV.. not saying that is the best strategy – but I am not constantly distracted by new infos.
Mar 27, 7:45 PM
Elena (Guest): Cause you’re right… it’s hard to listen to the tiny voice when the screaming voices of negative stuff are full on.
ar 27, 7:45 PM
Elena (Guest): I’m not even talking about news. I mean life in full and in person day after day.
Mar 27, 7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): Oh I see
Mar 27, 7:46 PM
Simone (Guest): Yes, you are thrown right in the middle of life. That is so much harder. I have the privilege to live a very quiet life. Has also its own temptations – but I do not have to sort out so many voices
Mar 27, 7:46 PM
Dawn (Guest): Discipline. think of how the sisters live by a schedule thruout the day. this must help.
Mar 27, 7:46 PM
Elena (Guest): Not saying I hear voices LOL
27, 7:47 PM
Simone (Guest): Also – the Spiritual directory is super helpful I find ar 27, 7:47 PM
Ruth (Guest): I don’t have TV either, but the iPad and radio and, yes, all that is happening around me AND in me can be distractions, too.
Mar 27, 7:47 PM
Simone (Guest): To prepare the day spiritually – sit down and go through the day – what challenges are coming? Where will I be tempted to act out of flesh and not of charity? Preparing for these moments – and then live into this blessed time
Mar 27, 7:48 PM
Simone (Guest): I hear you Ruth, I think so too
Mar 27, 7:48 PM
Simone (Guest): I think the Oblates literally go through their calendar page in the evening before – or in the very morning
Mar 27, 7:48 PM
Simone (Guest): prayerfully going through the calendar page I
ar 27, 7:49 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes we follow the spiritual directory as well- the first thing we start with 49 PM
Simone (Guest): Sister – may I ask, is your Order living that too?
Mar 27, 7:49 PM
VisitationSiste: Yes we follow the spiritual directory as well- the first thing we start with
Mar 27, 7:49 PM
Elena (Guest): I don’t know what that is.. spiritual directory
Mar 27, 7:49 PM
VisitationSiste: you express it so well!
Mar 27, 7:49 PM
Simone (Guest): can you tell a little bit how that looks practically? or is that not allowed maybe? Sorry
Mar 27, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: what you just said is the directory, sort of.
Mar 27, 7:50 PM
Simone (Guest): Oh ok..
Mar 27, 7:50 PM
VisitationSiste: The point is union with God and in every thing before every action for ex we ask for the grace to perform it
Mar 27, 7:50 PM
Simone (Guest): Sister – do you want to say something to what the Spiritual Directory generally?
, 7:51 PM
Simone (Guest): See, Sister, THAT is for me the core of Salesian Spirituality
Mar 27, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: It is a guide for your soul compiled from the writing s of St Francis de Sales
7, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: Outer actions encased in movements o 51 PM
VisitationSiste: It is a guide for your soul compiled from the writing s of St Francis de Sales
Mar 27, 7:51 PM
VisitationSiste: Outer actions encased in movements of the soul
Mar 27, 7:52 PM
Simone (Guest): this is how we really can LIVE JESUS.
Mar 27, 7:53 PM
Simone (Guest): sorry,.I think I took the conversation a bit to a side track .. but I am a tiny bit passionate about the Spiritual Directory …
Mar 27, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: Spiritual Directory on PrayerSt. Francis de SalesBegin each prayer, the silent as well as the vocal, by being aware of the presence of God. Keep to this without exception.In all petitions and prayers, the “we” carries weight, as the Lord taught us in the Our Father. In it, on “I” or “for me” is found.Before all else, the prayer of the mind and heart is recommended to you, most especially that which has as its object the life and Passion of the Lord.By frequent contemplation you will be grasped by Him, and y
Mar 27, 7:53 PM
VisitationSiste: you will learn to carry out all your actions as He did.
Mar 27, 7:54 PM
Ruth (Guest): Sorry about being late and the interruptions. A distant cousin was reaching out to me.
Mar 27, 7:54 PM
Simone (Guest): no worries Ruth.. there are no interruptions – only invitations
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7:55 PM
Elena (Guest): Thank you for that information on the Spiritual Directory.
Mar 27, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: https://www.oblates.org/the-spiritual-directory
The Spiritual Directory — Oblates of St. Francis de Sales
7:55 PM
Elena (Guest): Thank you for that information on the Spiritual Directory.
Mar 27, 7:55 PM
VisitationSiste: https://www.oblates.org/the-spiritual-directory
The Spiritual Directory — Oblates of St. Francis de Sales
Simone (Guest): Here is also a good book about it – very very practical
Mar 27, 7:55 PM
Simone (Guest): https://www.amazon.com/Live-Today-Well-Thomas-Dailey-ebook/dp/B011PX9SNA
Mar 27, 7:56 PM
Dawn (Guest): thank you Sr!
Mar 27, 7:56 PM
Elena (Guest): I have that book.
Mar 27, 7:56 PM
VisitationSiste: great!
7:56 PM
Simone (Guest): LOL.. Elena.. you are half way there!
Mar 27, 7:56 PM
Elena (Guest): no I”m not… I’ve read books and done everything I’m “supposed” to do… really not even close to being there.
Mar 27, 7:56 PM
VisitationSiste: q2 Discuss the analogy St. Francis uses to discuss the “feeling” of faith (or lack thereof) being compared to a child who has an inheritance but cannot use it yet. Does this make sense
7, 7:57 PM
Elena (Guest): So is this asking about consolation? receiving a consolation in faith? I wasn’t sure exactly what he means by “feeling.”
Mar 27, 7:59 PM
Dawn (Guest): how often do we rely on our feelings to determine our state at any given moment. a thought a guestion here
Mar 27, 7:59 PM
Simone (Guest): it was a bit confusing, I agree. I wonder if this woman, has come with her suffering of desolation in her prayer times – the dryness -which might have been new to her after a period of consolation
Mar 27, 8:00 PM
Simone (Guest): I am just starting to learn to value prayer times without consolation.
Mar 27, 8:00 PM
Simone (Guest): slowly slowly learning.. like snail slowly
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Elena (Guest): Dawn, what you said rings a bell… relying on feeling to determine our state. PM
Simone (Guest): I am a bit in the situation of a child with an inheritance -where I have no access to it. When you look at my life – you can say we are sort of “house poor” – if you know what I mean – but I do know that I have an inheritance – waiting for me – and I do think it does make a difference in times when money issues are getting really pressing again – not that I have access to it soon – but somewhere it is there – so it is – with our consolations – even when I am not consoled in prayer – I know that I can have
Mar 27, 8:03 PM
Ruth (Guest): I didn’t know what was meant by Spiritual Directory either. But I do start every day with a morning offering, often in my own words previewing both practical and spiritual goals and anticipating some of the obstacles that can be anticipated.
Mar 27, 8:03 PM
Dawn (Guest): like, if we feel more joy it must be we are arriving someplace we want to go. but what about those times and Jesus tells us, that to follow him we must pick up our cross? I read once is you want to get closer to Jesus learn how to suffer
Mar 27, 8:03 PM
Simone (Guest): access to consolation – by my state – but just not now.. does that make sense?
Mar 27, 8:03 PM
Elena (Guest): As in, “I feel like a flaming garbage dump because (fill in the external and internal factors).” but is my soul really in the state of a flaming garbage dump? (I sincerely hope not.) What is to be done in those times? What if that feeling never lifts or only lifts temporarily. Asking for a friend.
04 PM
Simone (Guest): a flaming garbage dump still gives light in the darkness…. just saying 05 PM
Elena (Guest): HAHAHAHAHAHA that’s awesome, Simone. 7, 8:05 PM
Dawn (Guest): that is beautiful !! lol
Mar 27, 8:05 PM
Elena (Guest): I need to write that on a sticky note on my desk at school.
Mar 27, 8:07 PM
Elena (Guest): Even when we’re in desolation and the feeling is wretched, we can still do God’s will. This seems so impossible, yet I believe now that it is true.
Mar 27, 8:07 PM
Dawn (Guest): Im going to write this on my frig board, right now
, 8:07 PM
Elena (Guest): This has to become a meme somewhere on the internet… totally brilliant (literally and figuratively)
Mar 27, 8:07 PM
VisitationSiste: we have it for posterity or as long as this website lasts
08 PM
Ruth (Guest): It still stinks, though! Literally and figuratively. 8:08 PM
Elena (Guest): Yes Ruth! Yes, it does.
Mar 27, 8:08 PM
Simone (Guest): but when the fire is out – the garbage is gone too – all burned up
Mar 27, 8:09 PM
Simone (Guest): maybe you are just a modern day allegory of the burning bush Elena. A new vocation
Mar 27, 8:09 PM
Elena (Guest): When will that be, I wonder.
8:09 PM
Elena (Guest): I’d rather the burning bush than Gehenna.
Mar 27, 8:09 PM
Simone (Guest): I hear you Sister
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Simone (Guest): You know the quote ” life is what happens while you are making other plans” ( or similar) – I think it is the same with holiness.. Holiness happens – while you are dealing with burning garbage
Mar 27, 8:10 PM
Carol (Guest): Hi Everyone! My Legion Post hosted a BBQ today so I am tardy
Mar 27, 8:10 PM
Elena (Guest): mmmm BBQ
Discuss this part of the prayer written by St. Francis: “No, Lord, I want no more joy in my faith, nor in my hope nor in my charity, than to be able to say in very truth although without tasting or feeling it, that I would die rather than give up my faith, my hope, my charity. Alas, Lord, if it is your good pleasure that I should find no pleasure in the practice of the virtues which your grace has bestowed on me, I agree to this with all my will although against what my will feels.” Does Does this go aga
Mar 27, 8:12 PM
Dawn (Guest): hi Carol!
Mar 27, 8:12 PM
VisitationSiste: against the joy that is mentioned by Paul and by Jesus that we should/will have as Christians?
Mar 27, 8:12 PM
Ruth (Guest): However, Dawn said it, DISCIPLINE, First we do what is NECESSARY, then what is possible, and sometime we discover that we are doing the impossible. That should “feel” good, but even if it doesn’t we are on the path to sanctity. Look at the life of Teresa of Calcutta. She had very,very little consolation for a long, long time.
Mar 27, 8:12 PM
Carol (Guest): Hi Dawn & Simon & Elena, Sr Susan & Ruth
Mar 27, 8:13 PM
Simone (Guest): it’s ok that I am a man today, Carol
Mar 27, 8:13 PM
Carol (Guest): Sometimes when we feel like we are getting nowhere, or going backwards–that is wh. We make the most progress
Mar 27, 8:13 PM
Carol (Guest): Lol, sorry! SIMONE
ar 27, 8:13 PM
Simone (Guest): all good.. 8:15 PM
Dawn (Guest): great example Ruth, Mother Teresa.
Mar 27, 8:15 PM
Simone (Guest): I must have missed Dawn’s post . but I really like how you worded it Ruth
Mar 27, 8:15 PM
Simone (Guest): It starts with the WILL – not the feeling –
8:15 PM
Elena (Guest): I think the difference is having joy from my virtue vs having joy from union with God. It’s not faith or the actions or the virtues that give joy, necessarily. But what that life leads to … I guess.
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8:16 PM
Simone (Guest): ELENA – home run.. yes.. that is so true 8:16 PM
Carol (Guest): yes, the union is the goal, virtue a stepstone on the path
Mar 27, 8:17 PM
Simone (Guest): there is a subtle joy – in doing the right thing – even if it is not pleasant
Mar 27, 8:17 PM
Elena (Guest): I agree with Carol, too, that we often feel like we’re going nowhere or even backwards… we can’t see what’s really going on in our soul and God’s work there.
Mar 27, 8:17 PM
Simone (Guest): St. Teresa speaks about this often. – in regards to transitioning between different mansions of the soul
Mar 27, 8:18 PM
Carol (Guest): It’s mostly down in our subconscious, in the no-fishing zone
18 PM
Simone (Guest): A good Carmelite spiritual director can be very helpful -unfortunately I do not know any Salesian Spiritual Directors for that
Mar 27, 8:18 PM
Elena (Guest): no-fishing zone haha! excellent analogy
ar 27, 8:18 PM
VisitationSiste: The Oblates are directors and I think they are in Canada somelace 27, 8:20 PM
Elena (Guest): I think she meant the sub conscience? M
Carol (Guest): What God does in our subconscious is not our business. Ifmwe try to “help” we just get kn the way
Mar 27, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): thanks Carol.. I really needed to see that thought fleshed out .. now I get it
7, 8:22 PM
Elena (Guest): He must have a bull dozer and wrecking ball in my soul at this point… feels like a construction zone where you need a hard hat.
Mar 27, 8:22 PM
Carol (Guest): I wish I could type
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Elena (Guest): You’re doing great, Carol.
Mar 27, 8:22 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hi Carol! Thank you. I often feel like am going backwards! I even fall over backwards or sideways often. I’m full of bruises to prove it! But I get up again and I CHOOSE to keep dancing with the best partner the ALMIGHTY ONE has Given us HIS SON. We have to make this choice over and over and over again, even though “mir gehoeren einander” we belong to one another.
3 PM
Carol (Guest): I have been there Elena. The sign on the building said “Open During Reconstruction”
Mar 27, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): oh Elena.. It really sounds that GOD is allowing a hard time in your life. sorry sister – that is rough
Mar 27, 8:23 PM
Elena (Guest): Ruth – so beautifully expressed, pain and love all in one.
Mar 27, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): LOVELY Ruth.. so lovely
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Carol (Guest): I have been there Elena. The sign on the building said “Open During Reconstruction”
Mar 27, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): oh Elena.. It really sounds that GOD is allowing a hard time in your life. sorry sister – that is rough
Mar 27, 8:23 PM
Elena (Guest): Ruth – so beautifully expressed, pain and love all in one.
Mar 27, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): LOVELY Ruth.. so lovely
Mar 27, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): holy bruises
Mar 27, 8:23 PM
Elena (Guest): Thank you, Carol and Simone.
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Simone , 8:24 PM
Carol (Guest): Just remember that everything Jesus allows is for our salvation
Mar 27, 8:24 PM
Elena (Guest): holy bruises! that’s another post-it note on my desk
7, 8:24 PM
Elena (Guest): holy bruises! that’s another post-it note on my desk
Mar 27, 8:25 PM
Elena (Guest): Yeah that’s what I know is true, but sometimes it seems just like a total abandonment. Like, where is He?
Mar 27, 8:26 PM
Simone (Guest): These dark patches are so hard to endure.
Mar 27, 8:26 PM
Carol (Guest): He has moved in with you, so close you can’t see Him
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Elena (Guest): Just like the Jews expected their warrior Messiah to free them from Roman oppression, I want my White Knight on a steed to rescue me from circumstances that spiral down 8:26 PM
Elena (Guest): Which.. I know isn’t how it works, lol.
Mar 27, 8:26 PM
Simone (Guest): Elena, maybe you should have ONE post it – bigger than all the others – that says ” I AM STILLIN GOD’S WILL. HE IS STILL IN CONTROL”
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8:27 PM
Carol (Guest): No, sometimes we experience hard things for purposes only He knows. Trust is crucial
Mar 27, 8:27 PM
Elena (Guest): Sorry I didn’t mean to take over the thread…. thank you all for your patience and support and prayers!
7, 8:28 PM
Carol (Guest): Each of us has needed it
Mar 27, 8:28 PM
Simone (Guest): Elena – like Hagar – who had to suffer so badly of bad choices of other people – and the injustice of their decisions – she ended up realizing ‘ YOU ARE THE GOD WHO SEES ME” – and that was more precious than having never been sent away
27, 8:28 PM
Ruth (Guest): So much wisdom expressed by EACH of you. Thank you.
Mar 27, 8:29 PM
Elena (Guest): <3
Mar 27, 8:29 PM
Simone (Guest): Elena – we are a small “sample” of GOd’s body here.. if one suffers – we all suffer
29 PM
Elena (Guest): Amen. You will definitely be in my prayers this week – May you see God’s goodness in many ways –
Mar 27, 8:30 PM
VisitationSiste: This has been an extraordinary sharing tonight.Thank you!
Mar 27, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): GOd has opened Hagar’s eyes – and then she saw the WELL – the life saving well – probably there all the time – but GOD needed to open her eyes – to see it – and get saved
Mar 27, 8:30 PM
Elena (Guest): Thank you, everyone.
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Elena (Guest): Thank you, Sister! God bless you.
Mar 27, 8:30 PM
Carol (Guest): Thank you Sr Susan!
Mar 27, 8:30 PM
Dawn (Guest): Sr Susan will this chat be saved?
Mar 27, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): Thank you Sister .. and Thank you all my lovely “sisters” – you are all so special to me.
Mar 27, 8:31 PM
Carol (Guest): I don’t know what I’d do without each of you
Mar 27, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: yes I will save
Mar 27, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: the chat
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Dawn (Guest): it is amazing. thank you. the Holy Spirit just takes over
Mar 27, 8:31 PM
VisitationSiste: God bless!
Mar 27, 8:32 PM
Carol (Guest): Oh good. Because I missed a lot
Mar 27, 8:32 PM
Elena (Guest): We are so blessed here… thank you, Lord Jesus, for this group of sister disciples.
Elena