| Why do we so easily “divinize” (idolize) other human beings? How can we end up idolizing someone/something through our actions, even if we claim to be keeping it in its place as a created thing? St. Francis says the kind of expression described in this letter could be acceptable if it was not expressed in worldly terms. How is this so? What is an example? In John 19:11, Jesus says to Pontius Pilate: “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above.” How can we think of this verse, too, in regard to the praise we give to humans and other created things? Do you think that if a celebrity or someone famous had more humility this would change or mitigate how people idolize them? Are we guilty of setting up our own idols, such as our children, celebrities, or even Church leaders? How can we avoid falling into this trap? (Guest): Interesting perspective about idolizing others- I am sure I did that when young but not after meeting the Lord Apr 24, 7:27 PM Visitation Sr (Guest): Hi Brian!! Apr 24, 7:27 PM Brian Bunny (Guest): Hi Sister Susan and Carol ! God Bless You !!! Apr 24, 7:29 PM Carol (Guest): I have read some biographies of saints that came very close :29 PM Brian Bunny (Guest): I think it helps to really know we have all sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God !!! 7:30 PM Visitation Sr (Guest): Carol the saints idolized someone Apr 24, 7:31 PM Visitation Sr (Guest): is that what you meant Apr 24, 7:31 PM Carol (Guest): Yes, th 2 PM Carol (Guest): No, actually, in some the Saint was extolled for having visions and so mustbhave been more extraordinary than the rest of us. It was a very old one Apr 24, 7:32 PM Brian Bunny (Guest): Without Faith in God we can really do nothing !!!! Apr 24, 7:32 PM Visitation Sr (Guest): I imagine that we idolize people because we love them and the love of the Lord is not too strong yet Apr 24, 7:32 PM Simone (Guest): Hello everyone 6 online Visitation Sr Carol Brian Bunny Simone 2 viewers one (Guest): wow.. we are already full blown on topic.. Apr 24, 7:32 PM Visitation Sr (Guest): hi SImone- just first question 33 PM Simone (Guest): That is an interesting observation Sr. Susan.. Apr 24, 7:33 PM Carol (Guest): Hi Simone! 3 PM Simone (Guest): I also have the feeling that people idolize others – because they want to be “part of something great” – so if they attach their adoration – they are sort of linked with the “greatness” of the other Apr 24, 7:34 PM Simone (Guest): and HI Carol – good to see here tonight. Apr 24, 7:34 PM Brian Bunny (Guest): Hi Simone ! God Bless You! Apr 24, 7:34 PM Simone (Guest): oh .. and Brian Bunny is back too Apr 24, 7:34 PM Simone (Guest): Hi Brain 35 PM Simone (Guest): But – I really like what you said Sr. “because we do not love the LORD enough yet” – yes – that’s it – we make an idol of something – because we are made to worship – Apr 24, 7:36 PM Carol (Guest): I remember questioning that as being a little over the top and was told hagiography at the time did not mention flaws, but emphasized gifts 4, 7:36 PM Simone (Guest): but as with the golden Calf – we do not wait long enough – we give in to worship something lesser than GOD – because we want to get the “feel good fruit” of worship :37 PM Simone (Guest): Carol – I do not understand the context — can you explain please? 37 PM Carol (Guest): Or if we imitate the person we will receive their gifts 38 PM Carol (Guest): Sorry, i had mentioned an older Saint biography that I read that made the person too good to be true Apr 24, 7:38 PM Simone (Guest): oh.. I see Apr 24, 7:38 PM Brian Bunny (Guest): I think that when we make idols it destroys the unity that Jesus wants us to have to be One !!!! Like in Sports when too much attention goes to star players it can break a team apart but if they remain close to each other and united as a team it can make a team better !!! Apr 24, 7:39 PM Carol (Guest): That is true Apr 24, 7:39 PM Simone (Guest): yes- good point – |
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Visitation Sr (Guest): 2. How can we end up idolizing someone/something through our actions, even if we claim to be keeping it in its place as a created thing?
Apr 24, 7:39 PM
Simone (Guest): I was recently going for a walk – and my thoughts were wondering – and I thought ” do I idolize St. Francis de Sales?” – do I speak more about him than Jesus?
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Carol (Guest): I think you’re on to something there
Apr 24, 7:41 PM
Carol (Guest): The same for us in the Community, less Francis, more Jesus
Apr 24, 7:41 PM
Simone (Guest): I remember when I studied Logotherapy – every second sentence started with “Victor Frankl this – and Victor Frankl that ” – I had to stop the training there – cause I thought that I am formed as a disciple of Victor Frankl ( founder of Logotherapy) – than of Jesus —- but I have to be careful not to do the same with St. Francis de Sales
Apr 24, 7:42 PM
Simone (Guest): interesting Carol
Apr 24, 7:42 PM
Carol (Guest): But always to remember the example of both francis
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Simone (Guest): It is not a secret that I truly love the writings of St. Francis de Sales and St. Jane – but I have to check in from time to time to make sure that I am still seeking Jesus THROUGH them – and not seeking their writings only
Apr 24, 7:43 PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): I think that when that person or thing gets in the way of our relationship with God . Starts to control our actions and prevents us from being in touch with God’s Will. What God truly wants us to do . Can happen overtime !!!
Apr 24, 7:43 PM
Carol (Guest): Because we are following in Francis footsteps its easy sometimes yo overlook whose footsteps he’s in
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Visitation Sr (Guest): our students say this often too we concentrate on the saint rather than Jesus 4 PM
Simone (Guest): I also did some “checking in” recently – if I idolize information – and interesting thoughts – which is of course made visible in books – oh.. how I fear that one day GOd would ask me to depart from my books – It would be a “young rich ruler” dilemma for me .. I hope I know how to choose
Apr 24, 7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): I also wonder – if that tendency was why St. Jane and St. Francis decided to separate in a way
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Simone (Guest): I also wonder – if that tendency was why St. Jane and St. Francis decided to separate in a way
Apr 24, 7:45 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): there was an attachment of some sort there
Apr 24, 7:45 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): St Janes 1616 retreat was a turning point
Apr 24, 7:46 PM
Simone (Guest): yes – and I am so so glad to see that their love for Jesus was bigger than the attachment
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Visitation Sr (Guest): there was an attachment of some sort there
Apr 24, 7:45 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): St Janes 1616 retreat was a turning point
Apr 24, 7:46 PM
Simone (Guest): yes – and I am so so glad to see that their love for Jesus was bigger than the attachment
Apr 24, 7:46 PM
Simone (Guest): now .. right here.. I am tempted to ask ” where can I read up on this”?
Apr 24, 7:46 PM
Simone (Guest): the 1616 retreat
Apr 24, 7:46 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): yes I am thinking
Apr 24, 7:46 PM
Carol (Guest): I would be interested too
Apr 24, 7:46 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): might be in one of ther bios
Apr 24, 7:47 PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): We must be available to God !!! Idols prevent us from being available to serve God when He calls !!!
Apr 24, 7:47 PM
Simone (Guest): ok.. just a quick question. Which bio from St. Francis de Sales do you like best? Question is for all on the chat
Apr 24, 7:47 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): Our scholarly srs would have alot to say on it Sr Paula from MN and Sr Mary Grace from St Loluis
Apr 24, 7:47 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): shall i ask them if I cannot find resource
Apr 24, 7:47 PM
Simone (Guest): oh please Sr. Susan
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Simone (Guest): Yes Brian – again. right on. Idols prevent us from serving GOD – because we can only serve ONE master – and every idol is a master in some way
Apr 24, 7:48 PM
Simone (Guest): Hi Ruth! Good to see you tonight
Apr 24, 7:48 PM
Carol (Guest): Hi Ruth!
Apr 24, 7:49 PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): Hi Ruth !!! God Bless You!!!!
Apr 24, 7:49 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): check this out https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/232974986.pdf
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Simone (Guest): I just read recently – was it in our readings maybe ? not sure now – that the sacrificial offerings through the Levite priests – started after the Golden Calf.. and was meant to help Israel to stay away from idols – they were now invited to offer up cows and calfs to the ONE GOD – instead of worshipping them –
Apr 24, 7:50 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): 4. In John 19:11, Jesus says to Pontius Pilate: “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above.” How can we think of this verse, too, in regard to the praise we give to humans and other created things?
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Visitation Sr (Guest): 4. In John 19:11, Jesus says to Pontius Pilate: “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above.” How can we think of this verse, too, in regard to the praise we give to humans and other created things?
Apr 24, 7:50 PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): Good Teachers always keep us looking for God’s Will , Available to God with our Gifts , Talents , and Abilities !!!
Apr 24, 7:51 PM
Carol (Guest): Simone, i thought it was because blood is needed to atone for sin?
:53 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): It is also true that Divine Providence is over everthing even those God permits us to meet
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Simone (Guest): Carol – I know what you mean – and it is NOT either or – definitely a foreshadowing of Jesus – setting the context of His atonement
Apr 24, 7:53 PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): People can be placed by God in Special Position that can be used to help others come closer to God !!!
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Carol (Guest): Okay, its both! 55 PM
Simone (Guest): I honestly do not know what to say to the last question. I mean – people were “idolizing’ power – and in reality Jesus had the biggest power – but not visible in that very situation :55 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes, they and we have a very limited sense of power 7:56 PM
Simone (Guest): who is “they” carol?
Apr 24, 7:56 PM
Simone (Guest): people around the passion?
Apr 24, 7:56 PM
Carol (Guest): The Pharisees. I seem to be speaking in incomplete thoughts tonight
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Simone (Guest): all good Carol — I just really like to understand your thoughts -I value them ( not idolizing you though
Apr 24, 7:57 PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): Even in situations where there is terrible leadership present I have seen people work together helping each other and Faith in God Grow in the midst of terrible persecution !!!
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Simone (Guest): I think persecution is the best fertilizer for faith
Apr 24, 7:58 PM
Carol (Guest): Oh I hope not! Lol
4, 7:59 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): Probably we will see faith grow in Ukraine 24, 7:59 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes, faith grows with the seeds of martyrdom 8:00 PM
Simone (Guest): That’s what I am hoping too. I really really hope that this is the fruit. It would be so much easier to reconcile with the horror of war – if the end would be bent knees and a new way of worshipping God 00 PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): God always guides us to find new and creative ways of loving and serving others even in the midst of deep persecution or in midst of prosperity if we stay close to Him !!! 1 PM
Carol (Guest): They said on the news this morning that Putin believes he is doing God’s will, and so does Kirill the Metropolitan
Apr 24, 8:02 PM
Simone (Guest): Wait what? Putin believes he is doing GOd’s will? WOW.. can we see the deceiver fully at work here?
Apr 24, 8:02 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes. Many live in the same area i do. They are modest and generous and rarely in the news
Apr 24, 8:03 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes, I have seen news video of him praying before Mary with the Metropolitan
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Simone (Guest): as for celebrities – they are often just a “product”. product of the companies with whom they signed the contracts. But I think- giving your YES. to live a life like a celebrity – is like signing away your soul.
Apr 24, 8:03 PM
Carol (Guest): Because, you know, the West is pretty degenerate
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Simone (Guest): Carol.. you are living amongst celebrities? How cool -probably a lovely area PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): It is an example of how distorted our view can become when we idolize anything ! We can talk ourselves into believing we are doing God’s Will when we could not be living farther from the Truth !!! :05 PM
Carol (Guest): It is a nice seaside with a mountain backdrop
Apr 24, 8:05 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): not sure former communists really believe
8:05 PM
Simone (Guest): hmm.. wanna do a get together Carol
Apr 24, 8:06 PM
Simone (Guest): Hey Ruth.. are you still with us?
24, 8:06 PM
Carol (Guest): The report went on to say uncharitable things about Church under communism
Apr 24, 8:06 PM
Simone (Guest): is your computer acting up again Ruth?
Apr 24, 8:06 PM
Carol (Guest): Oh yes, Simone!
8:06 PM
Simone (Guest): on my way Carol 6 PM
Simone (Guest): first we all go to Sr. Susan for a retreat – I so would love that.
Apr 24, 8:06 PM
Ruth (Guest): Sr. That observation is what has helped me to cope with more than fifteen people who entered my life and my house since the flood and, it seems, did. more harm than good. I trusted one whom I should not have, but since he would have had no power had he not (falsely but probably without I’ll intent) convinced me (verbally) of his competence, I realize that I would not have these problems I’ve been dealing with for months now, had God not at least allowed it.
Apr 24, 8:07 PM
Carol (Guest): Great!
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, 8:07 PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): I believe Sister Susan that many are locked into a mindset of kill or be killed very poisonous to an entire culture erosion of freedom
Apr 24, 8:07 PM
Simone (Guest): oh Ruth – that’s the last thing you needed. Is your house still not back to normal?
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Visitation Sr (Guest): Are we guilty of setting up our own idols, such as our children, celebrities, or even Church leaders? How can we avoid falling into this trap?
Apr 24, 8:11 PM
Carol (Guest): We are all vulnerable. We must never take our eyes off Jesus even as we listen to those whom are teaching us how to do that
Apr 24, 8:11 PM
Simone (Guest): You know, I feel really convicted about “idolizing my daughter”. I really do. How can I change this? Today she sang the first time at church – it was so beautiful – and I recorded a short passage – and sent it to her Aunts ( who love to be in her life) – still – I know it was a subtle way of bragging – How can I step out of idolizing my daughter? Practical ideas very welcome
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Brian Bunny (Guest): We live in a culture that feasts on idols !!!! We have to really be checking ourselves and have Faithful Friends who will be checking us for a shift towards idols !!! Can happen quickly easily , or even gradually over time !!!
Apr 24, 8:12 PM
Simone (Guest): I have never had a “celebrity crush” – well – maybe one – OK. – when I became Catholic – I think I was idolizing some things – and people – but that has fallen into place now I think
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Brian Bunny (Guest): I think when we stop Resting in the Lord and start to crave some idol we need to STOP and run back to God !!!
Apr 24, 8:15 PM
Simone (Guest): I am not sure – how can I know? I mean – I do not worship Victoria – but she means A LOT to me.
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Carol (Guest): Continue to love her so instensly but remember she is God’s first?
Apr 24, 8:16 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): If you deepest will is for God then you are not and if you are God will take care of it in His own way because you do put Him first
Apr 24, 8:17 PM
Simone (Guest): But – even if parental pride is not idolizing – I still do not like parental pride. There is something wrong about it. It is kind of the subtlest of prides – it looks like it is about someone else – your child – but in reality you just want to shine the light on yourself – your genes – or your parenting skills- whatever – praising your child is never really detached from self praise I think
Apr 24, 8:17 PM
Ruth (Guest): Simon, it was a Good thing you did. A person fully alive, singing God‘s praises gives glory to God. Go on bragging about her! as long as you don‘t put her in God‘s place.
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4, 8:17 PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): Soo easy to put our Loved ones before God ! Temptation that is Soo dangerous .
Apr 24, 8:18 PM
Simone (Guest): Thank you- all of you – it really helps. When I am thinking about this – I check in – am I putting GOD over her? I hope the answer will always be no
24, 8:18 PM
Simone (Guest): Good thing I am scheduled for confession on Wednesday
Apr 24, 8:18 PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): When we put God First , we now have ability to truly Love God and Others !!!
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Brian Bunny (Guest): When we put God First , we now have ability to truly Love God and Others !!!
Apr 24, 8:20 PM
Simone (Guest): I see this picture of me – holding Victoria on my open hand – being visible for everyone – let her light shine – but also not holding her -so God has always access to her -more than I do –
24, 8:20 PM
Ruth (Guest): Beautiful! pr 24, 8:20 PM
Carol (Guest): What a wonderful image , 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): thanks ladies – your words of wisdom lead me there
Apr 24, 8:21 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): that poetic touch!
2 PM
Simone (Guest): does anyone remember the singer Billy Idol? What a name to choose, eh? He should be on that chat today
Apr 24, 8:22 PM
Ruth (Guest): You want her to belong to God, to give God glory, and to share her gifts with others. That is your gift to the world and to her aunts.
4, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): Yes Ruth, that’s exactly what I want.
Apr 24, 8:23 PM
Carol (Guest): I remember him.
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Brian Bunny (Guest): I have made mistake of trying to fix everything for my kids instead of just being there to listen and Love and to allow God to guide them through !!!
Apr 24, 8:23 PM
Ruth (Guest): Careful about scrupulously.
Apr 24, 8:24 PM
Simone (Guest): What about church leaders? I have seen the biography of Tammy Fay the other day on Netflix – speak about idolizing.. phew
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Carol (Guest): They were a pretty extreme example, I think all TV ministers are particularly vulnerable PM
Simone (Guest): Tammy Fay – and her husband – idolized money and fame – all in the name of the LORD. I think they meant well.. but were so mislead in their faith – and then they invited a whole nation to idolize them – and that created quite a down fall
Apr 24, 8:26 PM
Ruth (Guest): Thanks for filling me in; I didn’t know what it was about.
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8:27 PM
Simone (Guest): Of course- we Catholics are also vulnerable to idolize in our own ranks – but it really helps to genuflect to the LORD so naturally built in – into our practice of faith – it somehow sets it right – on a daily base ( or weekly) 8:28 PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): Good examples of how we can start our wanting to serve God and others and it can get all twisted up along the way . Easy to drift off the narrow path with Jesus and end up on the Broad way to destruction !! We can’t do anything without Jesus !!!!!
Apr 24, 8:29 PM
Simone (Guest): oh my goodness.. I just realized. “BROADWAY” – and broad way – we should have a catholic theater called “the NARROW WAY” –
4, 8:29 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): you are inspired!
Apr 24, 8:29 PM
Brian Bunny (Guest): Amen !!!!
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Carol (Guest): Oh let’s Simone. J can write the p,ays
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Carol (Guest): I can write the plays
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): yes!!
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Ruth (Guest): I know a woman whose conversion to the Catholic Faith was triggered by her seeing an old man, with great difficulty, genuflect to the Blessed Sacrament.
8:30 PM
Ruth (Guest): I know a woman whose conversion to the Catholic Faith was triggered by her seeing an old man, with great difficulty, genuflect to the Blessed Sacrament.
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): Do you know that there is a German musical about St. Jane de Chantal?
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): I have written the Salesian Oblate in Austria –
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): yes I have the cd of it
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Ruth (Guest): She was in the church because of the music.
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): but in German I guess Sr.
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): when you come here we can watch it
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): and you can interpret
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): what do you mean Ruth?
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8:30 PM
Ruth (Guest): I know a woman whose conversion to the Catholic Faith was triggered by her seeing an old man, with great difficulty, genuflect to the Blessed Sacrament.
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): Do you know that there is a German musical about St. Jane de Chantal?
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): I have written the Salesian Oblate in Austria –
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): yes I have the cd of it
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Ruth (Guest): She was in the church because of the music.
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): but in German I guess Sr.
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): when you come here we can watch it
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Visitation Sr (Guest): and you can interpret
Apr 24, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): what do you mean Ruth?
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Simone (Guest): Really -keep that Sister – maybe we need this one day