Reflections:What does Jesus mean when He says, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:26)?Based on this story, was St. Francis guilty of breaking the fourth commandment to “honor your mother and father”?What would the Church and the world be like had St. Francis obeyed his father’s wishes?Discuss Luke 12:50-53. Did Jesus come for the sake of division, or did he mean some
Feb 11, 1:38 PM
VisSr (Guest): something more by this?St. Francis is known for being gentle, and this situation could seem contrary to his agreeable nature. Why is it important to have such virtues but still maintain a spirit of courage in face of what you know God is calling you to?Can you think of a similar situation in your own life when you were in disagreement with your father or mother, either as an adult or as a child? What were the principles involved? Did a willingness to do God’s will come into play in any way?
Feb 11, 1:38 PM
VisSr (Guest): Sun chat Feb 12 730pm est
Feb 11, 1:39 PM
VisSr (Guest): newsletter for chat https://visitationspirit.org/2023/02/newsletter-for-sunday-chat-feb-12/
Newsletter for Sunday Chat Feb 12 | Visitation Spirit
q1 What does Jesus mean when He says, “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple” (Luke 14:26)?
b 12, 7:31 PM
Sr J (Guest): In order to be a disciple, we must be willing to give up everything for Jesus.
Feb 12, 7:31 PM
VisSr (Guest): In the original language I wonder if the word hate is really there or is this a loose translation
Feb 12, 7:31 PM
Simone (Guest): sounds like 360 Degree surrender and detachment to me
Feb 12, 7:31 PM
Carol (Guest): Nothing is more important than doing Gods will
12, 7:32 PM
VisSr (Guest): But you are right God must be first and foremost in our lives
Feb 12, 7:32 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): Hi Sr Susan Simone Carol Sr J!
Feb 12, 7:32 PM
Sr J (Guest): Following Jesus requires commitment and faithfulness
Feb 12, 7:32 PM
Simone (Guest): That’s a good point Sister.. The original language might be not as strong
Feb 12, 7:32 PM
VisSr (Guest): Hi Dawn Theresa-
7:34 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): we may be asked to even give up our life for Jesus
Feb 12, 7:34 PM
VisSr (Guest): Yes!
Feb 12, 7:34 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): many do
eb 12, 7:34 PMCarol (Guest): Many martyrs now
12, 7:35 PMSimone (Guest): In a way.. this passage is comforting too
12, 7:36 PM
Sr J (Guest): Luke 14:26 uses the term μισέω (“hate” in many, perhaps all, English translations) in a context that reasonably shows its usage to be something other than “an adversarial emotion we recognize as ‘hate.'” That is, it is used in a relative sense there, where Christ is comparing the fact that one ought to “detest” father, mother, wife, child, brother, sister, and their own self if any of those get in the way of being his disciple (i.e. following Him).
Feb 12, 7:36 PM
Simone (Guest): When God showed me that He wants me to leave my home country – and later on in life – when he showed me that I should leave the protestant church with all my in law family in it – I felt – that it is OK to do God’s will
2, 7:36 PMSr J (Guest): So no person, and no person’s personal priorities, are to be placed above the priority of the Person of Christ and His priorities. Hence, it is used in a relative sense in this context.
, 7:37 PM
Simone (Guest): It freed me – to prioritize the will of GOD I have discerned.
Feb 12, 7:37 PM
Simone (Guest): Does that make sense – in context with the verse?
Feb 12, 7:37 PM
Carol (Guest): It can be difficult to discern though what is our idea and what is His idea
2, 7:38 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): it does Simone, clear
Feb 12, 7:38 PM
VisSr (Guest): It makes sense Simone
7:38 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): so true Carol
Feb 12, 7:38 PM
VisSr (Guest): q2 Based on this story, was St. Francis guilty of breaking the fourth commandment to “honor your mother and father”?
b 12, 7:38 PMSimone (Guest): and yes Carol .. you are right – that it is difficult to discern. But as we all experienced I guess – when GOD wants to stir us in a direction – he does make it clear
:39 PM
Carol (Guest): Yes. Its just leading up to that moment. And sometimes it’s only clear in hindsight
Feb 12, 7:39 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): perhaps in a way, but he obeyed a higher commandment to love and obey God above all
b 12, 7:39 PMSr J (Guest): Parents are to be honored (e.g. Mt 15:4)
eb 12, 7:40 PMDawnTheresa (Guest): I would think he still honored them
, 7:40 PMSimone (Guest): I think he honoured his Father by considering His wish.. it does not mean we have to do everything our parents want for us
2, 7:40 PMCarol (Guest): Even though he was technically disobedient
b 12, 7:41 PMSimone (Guest): I think his father was not honouring the adulthood of his son too. To be honest.
2, 7:41 PM
Carol (Guest): Thats a possibility for sure
Feb 12, 7:41 PM
Simone (Guest): It is not the place of a parent to lay out the plan of the life for your child. It is your role to accompany them on the way GOD chooses for them
7:42 PMSimone (Guest): of course every parent has a – silent’ dream for their child. I totally understand that
2, 7:43 PMVisSr (Guest): Honoring and obeying have different dimensions to them
2, 7:43 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): Would it be helpful to consider Mary and Jesus in this ?
Feb 12, 7:43 PM
Simone (Guest): yes.. that’s it
Feb 12, 7:43 PM
Simone (Guest): how so Dawn?
Feb 12, 7:43 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): yes, Sr
eb 12, 7:44 PMDawnTheresa (Guest): Jesus obeying the Father. of course, Mary agreed. I guess this is not good example
:44 PMDawnTheresa (Guest): Fiat
12, 7:44 PMSimone (Guest): It would be a very good example…if Mary would have insisted for Jesus to marry
, 7:45 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): a good example for parents however
Feb 12, 7:45 PM
Carol (Guest): What about when Jesus stayed behind in the temple?
Feb 12, 7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): But that was exactly her surrendering
7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): yes Carol.. that’s actually – where there “wills” might have separated for a moment
Feb 12, 7:45 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): good Carol. it was a learning for her
7:45 PM
Simone (Guest): Hi Ruth!
Feb 12, 7:45 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): Hi Ruth
Feb 12, 7:46 PM
VisSr (Guest): Hi Ruth!
, 7:46 PMCarol (Guest): But was Jesus technically disobedient as He knew He should be with His family or is there a higher law here?
2, 7:47 PM
VisSr (Guest): What would the Church and the world be like had St. Francis obeyed his father’s wishes?
Feb 12, 7:47 PM
Carol (Guest): Hi Ruth
Feb 12, 7:47 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): He was obeying God the Father
b 12, 7:47 PMSimone (Guest): oh Sister – we would have lost such a treasure.
12, 7:47 PMDawnTheresa (Guest): a great loss
7:48 PM
Simone (Guest): Carol – the more I think about your comparison – the more I like it
Feb 12, 7:48 PM
Carol (Guest): What then prevents us from doing what we want and then saying it was Gods will?
2, 7:48 PMSimone (Guest): help me to understand please Carol
, 7:48 PM
Ruth (Guest): Hello everybody. sorry I am late.
Feb 12, 7:48 PM
Simone (Guest): can you word it another way maybe – so I understand that question better?
Feb 12, 7:49 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): the indwelling Holy Spirit who reminds us of everything Jesus has said to us
b 12, 7:49 PMCarol (Guest): A person can act out of self will and then say well it is what God told me to do
2, 7:49 PMSimone (Guest): I think – the fruit also shows – if it was God’s will or not
12, 7:50 PMSimone (Guest): also.. St. Ignatius says that GOD works through our desires.. so “wanting something” can be a sign already that GOD is at work
12, 7:50 PMCarol (Guest): It’s all so complicated
b 12, 7:51 PMSimone (Guest): well.. sometimes it is. you are right.
2, 7:52 PMSimone (Guest): I had a very strong desire for something in my life. Very very strong. There was no outside confirmation that this is somehow to become reality. So I said to God, ” God, if this is not from you- and this desire is just from me – then please take it away”. And he did.
Discuss Luke 12:50-53. Did Jesus come for the sake of division, or did he mean some
something more by this?
b 12, 7:54 PM
Carol (Guest): I don’t think it was for the sake of division, but division is a xo se
Feb 12, 7:54 PM
Carol (Guest): Consequence
55 PM
Simone (Guest): I think with Jesus there is no middle ground. You either want to live for and with GOD – and you live through the power of the cross.. or you don’t. that divided in the end.. if you have to decide.
Feb 12, 7:55 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): He came to do his Fathers will. and speaking his truth is a sword, it will cause divisions between believers and non believers
, 7:55 PMSimone (Guest): well.. you said it much better Dawn 
12, 7:56 PM
VisSr (Guest): Yes tHAT does make it clear
Feb 12, 7:56 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): its both good and helpful to understand
b 12, 7:56 PMSimone (Guest): another word – instead of division – could also be “clarity”
Feb 12, 7:56 PM
Ruth (Guest): Often we do not get to see the fruit, even if it is beautiful, wholesome, nearly perfect.
Feb 12, 7:56 PM
Simone (Guest): or decision
2, 7:59 PMVisSr (Guest): St. Francis is known for being gentle, and this situation could seem contrary to his agreeable nature. Why is it important to have such virtues but still maintain a spirit of courage in face of what you know God is calling you to?
8:00 PM
VisSr (Guest): He had a temper but controlled it well and that is avirtue for sure
Feb 12, 8:00 PM
Carol (Guest): It is hard to be gentle and bold at the same time
Feb 12, 8:01 PM
Ruth (Guest): It is a mercy of God if, sometimes we get to see the fruits of our good works, done in tune with God’s relative and salvific work.
b 12, 8:01 PMDawnTheresa (Guest): it is very important to speak truth in charity. I wrestle with temptations of my own ego and …its hard sometimes. but I keep moving forward to learn
2 PMSimone (Guest): the passage comes to my mind – when the crowd wants to push Jesus over the cliff.. and Jesus – although his life was threatened – walked through them.. I find that so gentle – in the midst of this hostility and even attempt of taking his life – he just walked through the crowd.. and that’s how I see St. Francis- he gently walks through the adversity – following and doing GOd’s will
12, 8:02 PMVisSr (Guest): good comparison
12, 8:02 PMCarol (Guest): And the crowd just let Him go…
b 12, 8:02 PMSimone (Guest): the power of being in God’s will — everyone has to bow
b 12, 8:03 PMRuth (Guest): I wrote creative, not relative. Siri often changes what I type.
3 PMDawnTheresa (Guest): Im in an advanced course. I am surrounded by non Christians and not so favorable towards Catholics. it is an alienation that draws me closer to Jesus, so i thank them
Feb 12, 8:03 PMSimone (Guest): that’s a hard place to be Dawn. Is that at your work place?
eb 12, 8:03 PMDawnTheresa (Guest): where I live, and the town
b 12, 8:04 PMSimone (Guest): still hard
b 12, 8:04 PM
Carol (Guest): It is hard, sometimes even with other Christians
Feb 12, 8:04 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): yes!
12, 8:04 PM
Simone (Guest): sometimes even harder I find
12, 8:05 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): I think this is the times we are in, or approaching. what do you think?
Feb 12, 8:05 PM
VisSr (Guest): True courage is lacking in so many situations in our world
12, 8:06 PM
Simone (Guest): generallY
Feb 12, 8:06 PM
Ruth (Guest): Yes, I find it fascinating to learn of towns where all hold firmly to the same set of beliefs.
Feb 12, 8:06 PM
VisSr (Guest): Facing our fears and doing the right thing despite them??
Feb 12, 8:06 PM
Carol (Guest): To do what is right no matter the cost
8:07 PM
Simone (Guest): both very good. I agree.
Feb 12, 8:07 PM
Ruth (Guest): Sr that’s a good description of courage,
2, 8:07 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): thank you both. I take many notes here
Feb 12, 8:07 PM
Simone (Guest): sometimes – it is also courageous to do the things at the right time.
Feb 12, 8:08 PMCarol (Guest): To lay down your will and your life
, 8:09 PM
Ruth (Guest): How Dawn T. ? My response takes so long, it is often out of sunk with the topic. No time for written note taking.
Feb 12, 8:09 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): sometimes we need to trust and go forth and he never fails to let us know he accompanies us, it is a grace. and a confirmation
, 8:11 PMVisSr (Guest): Can you think of a similar situation in your own life when you were in disagreement with your father or mother, either as an adult or as a child? What were the principles involved? Did a willingness to do God’s will come into play in any way?
8:12 PM
Simone (Guest): Ladies, I have such a terrible head ache tonight. I sign off now. Please keep my daughter’s boyfriend in prayer. God has put such a searching heart in him right now. He reads constantly Catholic theology books.. and the Spirit of GOD is truly stirring in his heart. He has requested to meet with me this week – to discuss Catholic theology – and also then with Peter – We would love him to enter the Catholic Church of course. He is a wonderful young man – raised Christian. but quite spiritually confused..
Feb 12, 8:12 PM
Sr J (Guest): No I am Sr Jennifer Marie
Feb 12, 8:13 PM
Simone (Guest): His name is Sam..
Feb 12, 8:13 PM
Ruth (Guest): Congratulations! Ok except been praying for you.
Feb 12, 8:13 PM
Carol (Guest): I will pray Simone a
Feb 12, 8:13 PM
VisSr (Guest): Oh Simone get some rest . Prayers for you! and the young man
Feb 12, 8:13 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): prayers
Feb 12, 8:13 PM
Sr J (Guest): May our good Lord bless you and heal you Simone
12, 8:13 PMDawnTheresa (Guest): thank you for being here simone
2, 8:15 PM
Carol (Guest): That is good Sister. Mine understands it a bit but supports me
Feb 12, 8:15 PM
DawnTheresa (Guest): I can not reply to this question tho I look forward to hearing others
12, 8:16 PMSr J (Guest): My family are from the other denomination
, 8:17 PM
Sr J (Guest): I am the “black sheep”
Feb 12, 8:18 PM
Ruth (Guest): I’ve been praying. Not “OK except”
, 8:19 PM
Carol (Guest): If that’s what you want honey…
Feb 12, 8:19 PM
Carol (Guest): Is another common response
b 12, 8:22 PMDawnTheresa (Guest): courage is an important virtue Sr Susan, as your example it can move us to do Gods will against adversity