we want to share and reflect upon a letter written by St. Jane to St. Francis
Aug 10, 9:35 AM
SrSusan (Guest): Reflections:What can we do when we feel like all is lost and we’re just breaking at the seams?How can the presence of God make us tremble and shutter with fear?Do you think St. Jane is being scrupulous in this letter? Or is there something deeper going on?Do you think St. Jane was going through a dark night of the soul, or do you think it was possible she was suffering from depression, or both?How in the midst of such utter darkness can we exhibit the faith that St. Jane showed by still praying to
: accept whatever it is that God wants us to endure?Is it wrong in our faith to expect/desire consolation and joy? How can we be a witness to Christ going through immense struggles?Why do you think St. Jane was writing this letter to her spiritual director? Just to complain? What was she asking from him?
Aug 10, 9:35 AM
SrSusan (Guest): Sun chat Aug 13 730pm est
Aug 10, 9:35 AM
SrSusan (Guest): newsletter for chat https://visitationspirit.org/2023/08/newsletter-for-sunday-chat-august-13-on-st-jane/
Newsletter for Sunday chat August 13 on St Jane | Visitation Spirit
g 13, 7:23 PMGayle (Guest): the letter was so deeply honest
ug 13, 7:24 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Yes and one does not always expect that kind of openness
Aug 13, 7:24 PM
Simone (Guest): oh – maybe it was the other monastery. It was about depression and holiness in St. Jane’s life.
Aug 13, 7:25 PM
SrSusan (Guest): its the newsletter on how she felt, her misery etc
Aug 13, 7:25 PM
SrSusan (Guest): “Assuredly, my good Father, I am almost overwhelmed by this abyss of misery. The presence of God, which was formerly such a delight to me, now makes me tremble all over and shudder with fear. I bethink myself that the divine eye of Him whom I adore, with entire submission, pierces right through my soul looking with indignation upon all my thoughts, words and works.
Aug 13, 7:26 PM
SrSusan (Guest): these references above for ex?
Aug 13, 7:26 PMGayle (Guest): Yes
g 13, 7:27 PMSrSusan (Guest): q 1 What can we do when we feel like all is lost and we’re just breaking at the seams?
Aug 13, 7:28 PMSimone (Guest): oh my – this seems like my week. I was so surprised and overwhelmed with an onset of deep depression – “breaking at the seams” – really describes it well
Aug 13, 7:28 PMSrSusan (Guest): St Jane knew this kind of suffering
Aug 13, 7:29 PM
Simone (Guest): I contacted 2 good friends – who sincerely pray for me – I went to see my Spiritual Director – and I listened to a lot of spiritual writers – too tired to read – and too sad – but was listening a lot
Aug 13, 7:29 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I have experienced too
13, 7:29 PM
Simone (Guest): oh my – this last week too?
Aug 13, 7:29 PM
Simone (Guest): And then both of our cars broke down within 24 hours. How strange is that?
Aug 13, 7:29 PM
SrSusan (Guest): not deeply this week but in the past
ug 13, 7:30 PMSimone (Guest): sorry Sister – but I think somehow that those – who have experienced this – just know a part of life – others will never know
Aug 13, 7:30 PMSimone (Guest): the post I referred to earlier – had this part in it
, 7:31 PMSimone (Guest): Her friend St. Vincent de Paul wrote, “She was full of faith, and yet all her life long she had been tormented by thoughts against it. Nor did she once relax in the fidelity God asked of her. And so I regard her as one of the holiest souls I have ever met on this earth.”⠀⠀This is so important: Jane Frances de Chantal was a Saint not *in spite of* her struggles and temptations and doubts and fears, but BECAUSE OF THEM.Your struggles do not disqualify you. You are being called to be a saint in your doubts,
Your struggles do not disqualify you. You are being called to be a saint in your doubts, fears, anxieties, and darkness, in this time of sorrow and confusion and turmoil and anger. This is your path to holiness, and when (by God’s grace) you persevere, you will become a far greater saint because of these struggles than you ever would have been without them.
St. Jane Frances de Chantal, pray that our suffering would make us saints!
ug 13, 7:32 PMSimone (Guest): That was my biggest consolation last week
Aug 13, 7:32 PMSrSusan (Guest): I think being with people can help if they understand us
13, 7:32 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I think being with people can help if they understand us
Aug 13, 7:33 PM
Gayle (Guest): My husband and I are caregivers for our 40 year old son. I am a nurse for Cistercian monks but I have been unable to work for about six weeks because of my husband, health concern and care for our son who has had an uptick in his active seizure disorder due to the heat.
Aug 13, 7:33 PM
Simone (Guest): yes, if they understand us – and do not need us to be “normal” right away. But give us space for what we are going through
Aug 13, 7:33 PM
Gayle (Guest): I feel at a loss for being part of community and then I think of the holy family and here I am.
Aug 13, 7:33 PM
SrSusan (Guest): You have a huge responsibility there Gayle
ug 13, 7:34 PM
Simone (Guest): oh Gayle – how beautiful that you can go so close to suffering.
Aug 13, 7:34 PM
Simone (Guest): by that I mean – that you are willing – that you can handle suffering so close to you
g 13, 7:34 PM
SrSusan (Guest): hi Mary
Aug 13, 7:35 PM
Simone (Guest): So sorry to hear about your husband’s health concern Gayle. And for your son too.
Aug 13, 7:35 PM
Mary (Guest): hello SrSusan and all
ug 13, 7:35 PMSimone (Guest): I do not have seizures – but my histamine intolerance is through the roof in the heat too –
ug 13, 7:35 PM
Mary (Guest): Wonderful subject tonite..hi Simone
Aug 13, 7:36 PM
Simone (Guest): Hi Carol,
Aug 13, 7:36 PMSimone (Guest): I agree Mary
Aug 13, 7:36 PMSrSusan (Guest): q2 How can the presence of God make us tremble and shutter with fear?
13, 7:37 PM
Gayle (Guest): I am now age 71. My mother died when I was four years old in 1956 so I’ve known a number of significant loss of life.
Aug 13, 7:37 PM
Carol (Guest): He is so holy and so Immense
Aug 13, 7:37 PM
Simone (Guest): how can the presence of God NOT make us tremble?
ug 13, 7:37 PMSimone (Guest): I am sorry Gayle – it seems that God has allowed a lot in your life –
13, 7:38 PMCarol (Guest): Yes, it is hard not to know the why of it all
g 13, 7:38 PMSimone (Guest): When God decides to reveal His presence – only awe is the possible answer to this revelation
g 13, 7:39 PMCarol (Guest): And to prostrate ourselves
ug 13, 7:39 PMSimone (Guest): I agree Carol – there is something that just does not make us stand upright – when God’s presence is here.
g 13, 7:40 PMSimone (Guest): Since only God can initiate this though – I often read Genesis – or other passages in the bible that draw out the awe in me
ug 13, 7:40 PMGayle (Guest): Sometimes a glance, a pause,
ug 13, 7:41 PMSimone (Guest): I like that Gayle — a glance, a pause.. like in the OT reading today about Elijah and the “still small voice”
Aug 13, 7:41 PMGayle (Guest): Brings me quickly in to The Presence. I just need to remember to do it!
ug 13, 7:42 PM
Simone (Guest): He is always here – we have to turn our head to him, like Moses – when he saw the burning bush.. The Lord started speaking – after Moses had decided to pay attention
Aug 13, 7:43 PM
SrSusan (Guest): q3 Do you think St. Jane is being scrupulous in this letter?
Aug 13, 7:43 PM
SrSusan (Guest): q3 Do you think St. Jane is being scrupulous in this letter?
Aug 13, 7:44 PM
SrSusan (Guest): if you had a chance to read it!
Aug 13, 7:44 PM
Simone (Guest): I do not see any sign of scrupulosity.
ug 13, 7:44 PMGayle (Guest): I did not think so. Just terribly painfully honest and wanting to have assist to rise above it all
13, 7:45 PMSimone (Guest): She is just describing how she feels – but not hating herself for it – I do not hear guilt and shame .. more a deep longing – to be back into the harmonious relationship with her God- as she had experienced
ug 13, 7:45 PMSrSusan (Guest): is there something deeper going on?
ug 13, 7:46 PMGayle (Guest): A longing, perhaps to once, and for all, give herself to God totally
13, 7:47 PM
Mary (Guest): believe so..however need interpretation of her statement, ‘god has shown me He does not make much account of faith that comes of sentiment oremotions’ and ”she never wished for (felt) devotion – god is enough’…Doesn’t devotion draw you closer to God?
Aug 13, 7:47 PM
Simone (Guest): Well there is definitely inner turmoil. She does not write about any outside trigger for this deep despair. So the turmoil seems to start inside
Aug 13, 7:48 PM
Simone (Guest): ad Mary— Jane seems to have reached a place of holy indifference to consolation
Aug 13, 7:48 PM
SrSusan (Guest): It might be a purification of her soul
Aug 13, 7:49 PM
Simone (Guest): interesting Sister..
Aug 13, 7:49 PM
Carol (Guest): I think we are supposed to be detached from consolations
ug 13, 7:49 PMSimone (Guest): I agree Carol
Aug 13, 7:49 PMMary (Guest): I believe she was in great distress without the presence of her God.
Aug 13, 7:50 PMSrSusan (Guest): and it develops humility ever more deeply in her
Aug 13, 7:51 PMSimone (Guest): I think so too Mary – but as she describes – that her other faculties of the soul were still in darkness – it seems that there might have been something psychologically also going on.
Aug 13, 7:52 PMSrSusan (Guest): Do you think St. Jane was going through a dark night of the soul, or do you think it was possible she was suffering from depression, or both?
ug 13, 7:52 PM
Mary (Guest): yes, in our weakness God will work thru it & humble us
Aug 13, 7:52 PM
Mary (Guest): both
Aug 13, 7:53 PMGayle (Guest): Ah yes but the pruning and humbling can be so difficult
ug 13, 7:53 PMSimone (Guest): to be honest – it reads to me more like a depressive mode – the overall anguish seems to be so big.
Aug 13, 7:54 PMSimone (Guest): people in the dark night of the soul – are not necessarily in emotional distress.
13, 7:55 PMMary (Guest): it seems the same pattern as St Mother Theresa of Calcutta which we learned only after her passing the dark nite of the soul that she experienced for years; yet she kept her eyes on her Jesus and continued the miraculous work in India thru God’s graces.
Aug 13, 7:56 PM
SrSusan (Guest): that’s a good comparison
Aug 13, 7:56 PM
Carol (Guest): It takes strength and courage to carry on as she did
Aug 13, 7:56 PM
Simone (Guest): But Mother Theresa – was not in such overall anguish – she could laugh and be with others – it just affected her prayer times. But here Jane seems to be as a whole person drawn into this experience
ug 13, 7:57 PM
Simone (Guest): I wonder – if it was in this phase that St. Jane burnt the name of Jesus on her chest
Aug 13, 7:57 PM
SrSusan (Guest): But outwardly I do not think St Jane showed her inner distress
ug 13, 7:58 PM
Mary (Guest): nor Mother theresa
Aug 13, 7:58 PM
SrSusan (Guest): no she did that much earlier when she still had opportunity to be married I think
ug 13, 7:59 PMSrSusan (Guest): How in the midst of such utter darkness can we exhibit the faith that St. Jane showed by still praying to
: accept whatever it is that God wants us to endure?
Aug 13, 8:01 PMSrSusan (Guest): it takes a lot of trust I think
ug 13, 8:02 PMSimone (Guest): trust that God will use everything in our lives
Aug 13, 8:02 PMSimone (Guest): and the virtue of hope too… that this all will make sense one day
ug 13, 8:03 PMMary (Guest): The Good god know our weakness or strenth on that utter darkness state & all I can do is call out & pray for a deeper, more profound FAITH like the saints had so I would abandondon totally my mind, spirit, soul to the Will of my Father daily…that’s the start for me
ug 13, 8:04 PMSrSusan (Guest): q Is it wrong in our faith to expect/desire consolation and joy?
Aug 13, 8:05 PMSimone (Guest): maybe expecting is wrong – but not desiring. Although in the full definition of holy indifference -I guess our desires should also be reeled in. But who does not desire to be “with the one who my soul loves?”
ug 13, 8:06 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Joy is essential
Aug 13, 8:06 PM
Carol (Guest): I agree Simone
13, 8:06 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Joy is essential
Aug 13, 8:06 PM
Carol (Guest): I agree Simone
Aug 13, 8:07 PM
Simone (Guest): essential for what Sister?
Aug 13, 8:07 PM
Gayle (Guest): No be cause we are told that inGod lies consolation and our hope
Aug 13, 8:07 PM
SrSusan (Guest): for our souls
Aug 13, 8:07 PM
SrSusan (Guest): but that does not mean we are never sad
Aug 13, 8:07 PMGayle (Guest): Jesus wept
Aug 13, 8:09 PMSrSusan (Guest): I think joy comes from the Holy Spirit
13, 8:09 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I think joy comes from the Holy Spirit
Aug 13, 8:09 PM
Mary (Guest): the holy saints wanted no consolation in their physical sufferings..only God’s presence they asked…I ask on Fridays to suffer for Jesus & enjoin my pain to His on Calvary..it is part of fastday; however, I pray at other times for consolation in emotional stress..the Lord knows our hearts & intentions..
Aug 13, 8:09 PM
SrSusan (Guest): it is hard to think of mit when we are sad
Aug 13, 8:10 PM
SrSusan (Guest): How can we be a witness to Christ going through immense struggles?
Aug 13, 8:11 PM
Simone (Guest): I once experienced ( 3rd of May 1998). how the Holy Spirit washed over me in a time of deep anguish. And restored a brokenness in my soul. It was beautiful
Aug 13, 8:11 PM
Mary (Guest): At Fatima, Our Lady told Jacinta her consolation would not be in this life, but in the next…We are each called for different purpose
Aug 13, 8:11 PM
Simone (Guest): struggle itself is not a bad witness. How we approach struggle is the witness
ug 13, 8:13 PM
Gayle (Guest): If we are able by praying for others. Lifting them up
Aug 13, 8:14 PM
Simone (Guest): by keeping hope higher than despair
ug 13, 8:15 PMGayle (Guest): begging for grace
g 13, 8:15 PMSimone (Guest): knowing that our GOD can turn our struggle into something beautiful down the road – again… hope
Aug 13, 8:15 PM
Simone (Guest): not stopping to praise
Aug 13, 8:15 PM
Gayle (Guest): resting and not to keep forging ahead when we need to acknowledge needs
ug 13, 8:17 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Why do you think St. Jane was writing this letter to her spiritual director? Just to complain? What was she asking from him?
Aug 13, 8:17 PM
Mary (Guest): Rosary is great prayer for these times said Padre Pio..Many disasters have taken place…Maui..Haiti..even in our country…let’s keep forcused not on the darkness but on the eyes of Jesus and His Sacred Heart who loves us..and our Heavenly father, Creator of us all and who loves us as prodigal children will show us the way to the Kingdom
ug 13, 8:19 PMMary (Guest): spiritual guidance and prayers
ug 13, 8:19 PMSimone (Guest): well – that’s exactly what a spiritual director should know from his directee. The inner life – the ups and downs – she was NOT complaining -she was sharing – trying to make sense of all of this – and asking if her Director would know anything to help
ug 13, 8:22 PMSimone (Guest): I think we are often “wrestling” – like Jacob did with God – we wrestle with our faith – and probably with God too.
ug 13, 8:23 PM
Mary (Guest): Sr Susan, this is a very profound topic, and perhaps we could continue again.
Aug 13, 8:23 PM
Gayle (Guest): Q
Aug 13, 8:24 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Yes I agree
13, 8:25 PM
Mary (Guest): thank you thank you
Aug 13, 8:25 PM
Simone (Guest): can I please ask for prayer?
Aug 13, 8:25 PM
SrSusan (Guest): yes
Aug 13, 8:26 PMMary (Guest): have you on rosary prayerline Simone…Any specific update intention?
3, 8:26 PM
Simone (Guest): As you know – my consecration to become a Daughter of St. Francis de Sales is set for the 27th of August. I have learned yesterday that the church is now not available. Can you please pray that it will happen at the right place? It means a lot to me – this ceremony.
Aug 13, 8:26 PM
Simone (Guest): no, I don’t have Mary.
Aug 13, 8:27 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Oh yes!
ug 13, 8:27 PM
SrSusan (Guest): That is so soon
Aug 13, 8:27 PM
Simone (Guest): an update on my daughter — she is doing a little bit better – still nocturnal – ( that means sleeping during the day and up in the night) – but the emotional turmoil is lightened. PRAISE BE TO GOD!
Aug 13, 8:27 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Thank you Lord!
Aug 13, 8:27 PM
Gayle (Guest): Yes Simone I am happy to pray for this blessing for you
Aug 13, 8:28 PM
Mary (Guest): Will do…St Francis de sales will work it out for you
Aug 13, 8:28 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Who is your companioon Simone can she help too
Aug 13, 8:28 PM
Simone (Guest): aww. that’s sweet Mary.. he might.
Aug 13, 8:28 PM
Simone (Guest): My companion is from the States
Aug 13, 8:28 PM
Simone (Guest): She and another daughter have booked flights to be here for the weekend for the ceremony – so I cannot postpone it
Aug 13, 8:28 PM
SrSusan (Guest): too far away to help
Aug 13, 8:28 PM
Mary (Guest): What happened to HOPE??? It will happen
Aug 13, 8:28 PM
SrSusan (Guest): agree!
Aug 13, 8:29 PM
Gayle (Guest): Lourdes Live 24/7 is can be a great consolation
g 13, 8:29 PM
Simone (Guest): LOL, you are right Mary. Fortunately I am not desperate. I just want to give honour to this occasion – by having the right place.
Aug 13, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): I am surprised – that I do not have more anguish – but I sense it needs prayer to really make this all happen now
Aug 13, 8:30 PM
Mary (Guest): Let’s all say rosary this week for Simone’s need
Aug 13, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): I am humbled.
Aug 13, 8:30 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Yes!
Aug 13, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): I cannot promise a rosary for all of you – but I tuck your names into my night prayers.
Aug 13, 8:30 PM
Gayle (Guest): God bless you all while you sleep
13, 8:31 PM
Mary (Guest): I will even pray to St Francis of Assisito whom I am professed.
Aug 13, 8:31 PM
Gayle (Guest): My. Grandma used to say that when I would be falling asleep now, I say it to everyone that I can.
6 online
Mary
Simone
Gayle
2 viewers
6 online