ReflectionselcWhy is bitterness and dryness more fruitful than sweetness and consolation? And does this mean heaven is not of benefit to us? St. Francis says that “it is self-esteem which makes us impatient at seeing ourselves vile and abject.” Is there a good kind of self-esteem? How is this
different from a harmful self-esteem? Do you get the sense that the letter’s recipient is whining too much? What can we gain by looking at the way St. Francis addresses this problem?What is our “nothingness”?Why are our miseries the vehicle for allowing the power of the Lord to dwell in us?Why is devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus so important? Why not just a devotion to Jesus?
SrSusan (Guest): NEWSLETTER FOR CHAT https://visitationspirit.org/2023/11/newsletter-for-sun-chat-nov-19/
v 19, 7:24 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Yes it is the essence of our spirituality, our soul
Nov 19, 7:25 PM
Simone (Guest): I am reading it very slowly
Nov 19, 7:25 PM
SrSusan (Guest): that’s the best way
Nov 19, 7:25 PM
SrSusan (Guest): and practice slowly too
Nov 19, 7:25 PM
Simone (Guest): that is good advice.. thank you
Nov 19, 7:26 PM
Simone (Guest): would it be possible to discuss it here on the chat.. or is that not advisable?
Nov 19, 7:26 PM
Simone (Guest): like.. how to practice for example
Nov 19, 7:26 PM
SrSusan (Guest): St Francis de sales asked us to live it BUT he said if one could not, it was ok. Nothing forced
Nov 19, 7:26 PM
Simone (Guest): He was so beautifully gentle
Nov 19, 7:27 PM
SrSusan (Guest): yes we could I did start to post parts years ago somewhere here. We could do it I would have to send to webmaster but could do that
Nov 19, 7:27 PMSimone (Guest): oh Sister, please consider. It would be such a blessing.. not just for me I think.
ov 19, 7:27 PM
Simone (Guest): although, I very much love the letters too. Just wanted you to know that
Nov 19, 7:28 PM
SrSusan (Guest): well we always need to look forward to the next work so the directory is a good choice
Nov 19, 7:29 PM
Simone (Guest): There was a ceremony of renewing vows I think. Did you do that too?
Nov 19, 7:29 PM
Simone (Guest): or were you assisting another sister? sorry it was not clear to me
Nov 19, 7:29 PM
SrSusan (Guest): That is coming up on Tues the 21st. We have been in retreat 4 days in prep
Nov 19, 7:29 PM
Simone (Guest): oh.. I see.
Nov 19, 7:29 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I did not have great pics
Nov 19, 7:30 PM
Simone (Guest): LOL. do not judge Sister. I immediately recognized you
Nov 19, 7:30 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I invited viewers to come to the Mass- local parents
Nov 19, 7:30 PM
Simone (Guest): I talked to my husband, and I really would love to come to your monastery next summer -if possible.
Nov 19, 7:31 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Ok we will only be 3 here by then but yes do visit
ov 19, 7:34 PMSrSusan (Guest): q 1 :We have talked about the analogy of the long, cold winters and the trying times of our faith, but how can we also look at it from the lens of something beneficial to embrace, not just look forward to leaving behind us?
Nov 19, 7:36 PM
Simone (Guest): Well… I see it a bit like swimming.. it is nice to float in calm waters.. but you built muscles when you swim against the waves
Nov 19, 7:36 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I think we are following thru from past chats with this question
Nov 19, 7:36 PM
Simone (Guest): Did it say – in the letter though.. bitterness? That confused me,
Nov 19, 7:37 PM
Simone (Guest): cause bitterness is for me already a consequence from a not very fruitful response to dryness
Nov 19, 7:37 PM
Simone (Guest): whereas dryness itself is neutral to me –
Nov 19, 7:37 PM
Simone (Guest): does that make sense?
ov 19, 7:38 PM
Simone (Guest): I just found it. .it says.. but bitterness and dryness are really more fruitful
Nov 19, 7:38 PM
Corina (Guest): Hello everyone!
Nov 19, 7:38 PM
ruth (Guest): I like your analogy Simone.
ov 19, 7:39 PM
Simone (Guest): I never have found bitterness fruitful in my life. THat’s a total new concept for me. Bitterness locks me in – separates me from the livegiving Spirit I find
Nov 19, 7:39 PM
SrSusan (Guest): dont forget it is a translation from French so maybe it has a different connotation
ov 19, 7:39 PMSimone (Guest): AAAAAHHHH… that makes sense Sister
ov 19, 7:40 PMruth (Guest): Simone, it confused me atfirst too.
Nov 19, 7:41 PM
Simone (Guest): Corina.. I hope you do not mind asking me.. but are you by any chance German back ground? I am from Austria.. and I know that Corina is quite normal in Germany
Nov 19, 7:41 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Next q seems silly to me but I will post it anyway And does this mean heaven is not of benefit to us?
Nov 19, 7:41 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Hi Dawn
Nov 19, 7:41 PM
ruth (Guest): What it refers to is not so much one’s response as the circumstances, maybe the trials to which one is exposed.
ov 19, 7:41 PM
ruth (Guest): What it refers to is not so much one’s response as the circumstances, maybe the trials to which one is exposed.
Nov 19, 7:41 PM
Corina (Guest): More fruitful for me because I tend to rely more on God when bitterness comes…
Nov 19, 7:41 PM
Simone (Guest): I like both your answers Corina and Ruth. Thanks
Nov 19, 7:41 PM
Simone (Guest): Hi Dawn!
ov 19, 7:42 PM
Simone (Guest): Sister.. as for Question 2).. It is a logical question though – but it implies that we grow in heaven spiritually still. Is that something you would consider as true?
Nov 19, 7:42 PM
Dawn (Guest): Hi Sr Susan, Simone, and Ruth, Corina !
Nov 19, 7:43 PM
ruth (Guest): Hi Cawn
Nov 19, 7:43 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Don’t know what happens there but maybe so- good question
Nov 19, 7:43 PM
Corina (Guest): Hello Dawn
19, 7:45 PMSrSusan (Guest): I guess the key word is benefit
ov 19, 7:46 PM
Simone (Guest): you are right Sister Susan, the word benefit and heaven – are kind of strange in one sentence
Nov 19, 7:47 PM
SrSusan (Guest): yes benefit does imply growth
Nov 19, 7:47 PM
SrSusan (Guest): The theology of heaven I have never studied tho
Nov 19, 7:48 PM
Simone (Guest): I also think that heaven is a place of such – self-disinterest – that something like “benefit” is not even on the radar anymore
Nov 19, 7:48 PM
SrSusan (Guest): yes I agree
Nov 19, 7:48 PM
SrSusan (Guest): q St. Francis says that “it is self-esteem which makes us impatient at seeing ourselves vile and abject.” Is there a good kind of self-esteem?
Nov 19, 7:48 PMSimone (Guest): Can someone maybe rephrase this question for me? I find it hard to understand
ov 19, 7:49 PMSimone (Guest): specially the first part of the question
ov 19, 7:50 PMSrSusan (Guest): I would think he is saying that self love, of the inordinate kind, makes us fret when we make a mistake or sin
Nov 19, 7:50 PM
Mary (Guest): My thoughts are that we must grow here in this life beforeHeaven for where the Trinity is,,all is perfect..perhaps purgatory where we are prunedbefore fro, our weaknesses
Nov 19, 7:50 PM
Simone (Guest): ok.. I understand. thanks Sr. Susan
Nov 19, 7:51 PMDawn (Guest): and he says knowledge of our nothing ness should not trouble us but should have a soothing effect, humblings and chastening…
ov 19, 7:51 PMSrSusan (Guest): yes that is his attitude
Nov 19, 7:52 PM
Simone (Guest): I am not sure if it was St. Francis or Teresa of Avila. that said, it is pride when we are shocked when we sin. We assume too much of ourselves then
Nov 19, 7:52 PM
SrSusan (Guest): exactly
ov 19, 7:41 PM
ruth (Guest): What it refers to is not so much one’s response as the circumstances, maybe the trials to which one is exposed.
Nov 19, 7:41 PM
Nov 19, 7:53 PM
Dawn (Guest): I am shocked sometimes when I sin, I just had this experience recently.
Nov 19, 7:53 PM
ruth (Guest): She e he means something more like contemplating heaven THIS side of the great divide. When I hope for my Love of Jesus to be “unvailed” that is to “see” Jesus and the father unimpaired by my weaknesses, this can bring JOY amidst bitter situations. That is definitely a benefit of the ver existence of heaven.
Nov 19, 7:54 PMSimone (Guest): Well, I guess it is good when we are sensitive to our own weakness I guess. And sometimes, being shocked< can be a great reminder, who we are in our fallen human nature.
Nov 19, 7:55 PM
Simone (Guest): You said that so beautifully Ruth
Nov 19, 7:55 PM
Dawn (Guest): well spoken Simone.
ov 19, 7:56 PMSrSusan (Guest): q How is this
different from a harmful self-esteem?
Nov 19, 7:56 PM
Simone (Guest): so- the good kind of self- esteem.. we did not really establish this one.. or did we?
Nov 19, 7:56 PM
SrSusan (Guest): no you are right!
Nov 19, 7:57 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Let us do both together
Nov 19, 7:57 PMSimone (Guest): good idea
Nov 19, 7:57 PM
SrSusan (Guest): good self esteem is based on humility, on truth of who we are
Nov 19, 7:57 PM
Simone (Guest): I think, that the good kind of self-esteem is based on God’s strength in me
Nov 19, 7:58 PM
Simone (Guest): yes, that’s it Sister
Nov 19, 7:58 PM
Simone (Guest): and bad kind then is more – based on my ego
Nov 19, 7:58 PM
Mary (Guest): Self pride is only one of my weaknesses.. yet I find it very humbling when trials/difficulties arise which are beyond my control, to go before the Lord in Chapel and abandon all to Him..any pain, etc which we give to Him on the Cross…it gives me much peace.
Nov 19, 7:58 PM
SrSusan (Guest): yes
Nov 19, 7:58 PM
Simone (Guest): that’s. beautiful Mary, thanks for being so open
Nov 19, 8:00 PMSimone (Guest): I also thought for quite a while that I much more spiritually mature and God loving that I am actually. It was very humbling to see me crumble in no time – when God removed His grace. It was all HIS grace – and hardly anything from my side
Nov 19, 8:00 PMSimone (Guest): wrong self-esteem I guess
Nov 19, 8:01 PMSrSusan (Guest): q Do you get the sense that the letter’s recipient is whining too much?
ov 19, 8:01 PMSimone (Guest): That was a funny question
Nov 19, 8:02 PMMary (Guest): If you are able to spend time in Adoration, please do so..it gives much peace & consolation..Consoling Jesus & Mother Mary at the foot of the Cross is the answer for me to any of my weaknesses
ov 19, 8:02 PM
Simone (Guest): thanks for the reminder Mary. It is not easy to find Adoration where I live
Nov 19, 8:02 PM
SrSusan (Guest): we should be able to be open to a spiritual director which St Francis was for Madame Flechere
Nov 19, 8:03 PM
Mary (Guest): Sounds like me sometimes Sister Susan…self-pity at times
Nov 19, 8:03 PM
Simone (Guest): I thought the same. I am sure I whine much more in my spiritual direction sessions… sigh
Nov 19, 8:03 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I do too!
Nov 19, 8:03 PM
Simone (Guest): I love it when my Spiritual director meets me with such grace then though
Nov 19, 8:03 PM
Simone (Guest): it’s like he takes my soul in his hands.
Nov 19, 8:04 PM
Simone (Guest): He reminds me so much on St. Francis de Sales
ov 19, 8:04 PM
Simone (Guest): So.. for a moment let
Nov 19, 8:04 PM
Mary (Guest): the Lord know our hearts & good intentions, so don’t be distressed..our Good God is always there for u
Nov 19, 8:04 PMMary (Guest): us
Nov 19, 8:04 PMSimone (Guest): let’s say.. that this person would whine too much. .but what would be the alternative? How else do you address these situations?
Nov 19, 8:05 PM
Simone (Guest): with more hope woven in? Does that make it less “whiny?
Nov 19, 8:05 PM
SrSusan (Guest): change one’s tone of voice to more objectivity
Nov 19, 8:05 PMSimone (Guest): I see.. less of self-pity like Mary said
Nov 19, 8:06 PMSrSusan (Guest): q What can we gain by looking at the way St. Francis addresses this problem?
Nov 19, 8:07 PMMary (Guest): I would try to pray the whinning away, asking the Holy Spirit to replace it with praise & thanksgiving for in Thessalonians it says we are to give thanks on every occasion..so start on the whinny days praising God for all H has done for you
ov 19, 8:08 PMSimone (Guest): that is a good practical advice Mary
Nov 19, 8:08 PM
Simone (Guest): St. Francis takes every movement of the soul serious, without falling into despair. Like you said Sister – very objective.
Nov 19, 8:08 PM
Mary (Guest): that is for myself too Simone..let us pray for one another on those whinny days
ov 19, 8:08 PM
Mary (Guest): that is for myself too Simone..let us pray for one another on those whinny days
Nov 19, 8:09 PM
Simone (Guest): yes Mary, let’s do that
Nov 19, 8:09 PM
Mary (Guest): I will thank God for all of you in this chat room
Nov 19, 8:09 PM
Corina (Guest): In our miseries we allow God’s power to dwell in us…
Nov 19, 8:09 PM
SrSusan (Guest): ah yes
Nov 19, 8:10 PM
Mary (Guest): and perhaps the the thanksgiving wil overpower the whinning..Thank You Jesus for Simone, Ruth, Dawn, Corina and of course Sr Susan
Nov 19, 8:10 PM
Simone (Guest): And thank you for Mary Jesus!
v 19, 8:11 PM
ruth (Guest): when I am tempted to not even like, the “damaged” Ruth (Post TBI and Post CHEMO — clumsy, slow, forgetful, etc. I remind myself that God loved me into life, and he wills my well-being, so to have healthy self esteem I need to LOVE myself rightly. Concretely that means at least accepting what he has allowed if it cannot during this life, or will not be remedied. And seeking the Good in the changed me. One example that occurs to me is recognizing more completely y utter dependence on God’s mercy and even
Nov 19, 8:12 PM
ruth (Guest): Exist except for the author of all Being.
Nov 19, 8:12 PM
SrSusan (Guest): before I forget this Tues a new album on the sacred heart comes out- you received the news on it- it can be used in this anniversary year- 350 years of apparitons to St Margaret Mary
Nov 19, 8:12 PM
SrSusan (Guest): before I forget this Tues a new album on the sacred heart comes out- you received the news on it- it can be used in this anniversary year- 350 years of apparitons to St Margaret Mary
Nov 19, 8:12 PM
Mary (Guest): Let’s try this coming week to shut down our racing minds before the Lord asking Him to ake away all that is not of Him..and just sit back in silene after a few praise & glorys
Nov 19, 8:13 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Sacred Heart
Nov 19, 8:13 PM
Simone (Guest): oh Ruth.. God is working so beautifully in you – in this very trying years. But you cooperate so beautifully with Him
Nov 19, 8:13 PM
Dawn (Guest): Yes I received your message on this. looking forward to hearing it
Nov 19, 8:13 PM
SrSusan (Guest): https://visitationspirit.org/2023/11/breaking-news-new-sacred-heart-album-to-be-released-nov-21/
BREAKING NEWS: New Sacred Heart Album to be released Nov 21! | Visitation Spirit
Nov 19, 8:13 PM
SrSusan (Guest): you can listen now
Nov 19, 8:13 PM
Simone (Guest): I already listened to one song
Nov 19, 8:13 PM
SrSusan (Guest): one hymn
Nov 19, 8:13 PM
Mary (Guest): I received the e-mail Sister and listened on You-tube..beautiful..
Nov 19, 8:13 PM
Dawn (Guest): ah! wonderful. thank you!
Nov 19, 8:14 PM
Mary (Guest): Intend to order it..I am in Honor Guard also but haven;t comitted my hour as yet
Nov 19, 8:14 PM
SrSusan (Guest): this one? Why is devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus so important? Why not just a devotion to Jesus?
ov 19, 8:14 PMSimone (Guest): yes, this one
Simone (Guest): yes, this one
Nov 19, 8:16 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Well, Jesus asked for this devotion, actually
Nov 19, 8:16 PM
Corina (Guest): Signing off…God bless you all!
Nov 19, 8:16 PM
Simone (Guest): By Corina
Nov 19, 8:16 PM
SrSusan (Guest): God bless you too! Thanks for being here
ov 19, 8:17 PMSimone (Guest): I understand that Jesus asked for this devotion .. but there were hundreds of years before – where people just had a “devotion to Jesus” – like the Jesuits for example.
ov 19, 8:18 PMSrSusan (Guest): I think Jesus is happy however we honor and love Him
Nov 19, 8:18 PM
SrSusan (Guest): I think Jesus is happy however we honor and love Him
Nov 19, 8:18 PM
Simone (Guest): Thank you Sister for saying this.
Nov 19, 8:18 PM
Dawn (Guest): yes, thank you.
Nov 19, 8:18 PM
Simone (Guest): And, I truly like the Sacred Heart devotion, do not get me wrong. It is not that I do not like it
ov 19, 8:19 PM
Simone (Guest): For me, I guess – it was always “the love of Jesus”.. but the wording “Sacred Heart” is still quite new to me
Nov 19, 8:19 PM
Mary (Guest): His Heart is so full of love & overflowing for us that He wants to become one with our hearts..we unite ourselves to Him thru His Heart so as the Saint they forgot all earthly matters and wanted to be united with the Lord & also suffer for Him..My home is Enthroned to Sacred Heart of Jesus..My mother taught me bey her example the love for the Sacred Heart which is more than just a devotion
ov 19, 8:20 PM
SrSusan (Guest): well it does mean Hi\s Love but I guess His Heart beats strongly in love and He is holy so all is sacred
Nov 19, 8:20 PM
Simone (Guest): I know Mary that you have a special place in your heart for the Sacred Heart. And that is wonderful.
Nov 19, 8:20 PM
ruth (Guest): AWW it looks like my explanation of the upside down World based on an image from GK Chesterton has disappeared.
Nov 19, 8:20 PM
SrSusan (Guest): oh
v 19, 8:21 PM
Simone (Guest): too bad Ruth.. can you retype it?
Nov 19, 8:21 PM
Dawn (Guest): This may sound silly, but there is an animation movie called Angelas Christmas. She takes baby Jesus from his manger at the Church, because he is cold, she takes him home to warm him up. it is such a pure and simple love for him. I found this so beautiful, this childs animation movie
Nov 19, 8:22 PM
Simone (Guest): Ok Sister.. if you want to go back to the other questions, that’s ok. I just really wanted to hear the answers here on that one. Thanks for giving space to it
Nov 19, 8:22 PM
Dawn (Guest): It is on Netflix ( something good there) I rented it for a month so I could watch this movie again
Nov 19, 8:23 PM
Simone (Guest): thanks Dawn for letting us know.
Nov 19, 8:23 PM
SrSusan (Guest): 2 in one: What is our “nothingness”?Why are our miseries the vehicle for allowing the power of the Lord to dwell in us?
ov 19, 8:23 PM
SrSusan (Guest): 2 in one: What is our “nothingness”?Why are our miseries the vehicle for allowing the power of the Lord to dwell in us?
Nov 19, 8:24 PM
Dawn (Guest): We need to be empty of our self, die to our self, in order for the Spirit to dwell in us
Nov 19, 8:24 PM
Simone (Guest): I was surprised that the letter writer experienced anxiety and grief from her “nothingness”. For me it is always a feeling of relief more when I experience the truth of my nothingness. Because it elevates GOD ‘ ALL-ness”
Nov 19, 8:24 PM
Mary (Guest): I want to do more for Him always asking what his Will is for me. I love our nearby Chapel where I can spend hrs..Pope Francis just stated yesterday to the Priests that Jesus should not be alone or abandoned in the Tabernacle..When I was growing uo, 2 altar boys would remain in church in front, kneeing at times and keeping Jesus company
Nov 19, 8:24 PM
Simone (Guest): the good old days…
Nov 19, 8:25 PMSimone (Guest): maybe I define “nothingness” differently
Nov 19, 8:25 PM
Dawn (Guest): How do you define it?
Nov 19, 8:25 PM
SrSusan (Guest): might frighten some people
v 19, 8:26 PMSimone (Guest): well, that I am “nothing” compared to God. That there is not a single ounce of value and worth in me if it is not related to GOD. That’s how I would describe my nothingness.
ov 19, 8:26 PM
Mary (Guest): Our young Pastor is going to 2 neighbors’ homes on Wednesday to do Enthronement prayers to Sacred Heart..Sweet Heart of Jesus, be ou Love.
Nov 19, 8:26 PM
ruth (Guest): Once when I was an Adult, and had recently experienced the dissection of a child in the morgue during Advent, during my private Eucharistic Adoration I could not help but want to cover up the naked baby (a figure only, of course. I went home and made a beautiful little blanket and tucked in the infant Jesus in the manger. This had some interesting repercussions! Definitely not all bad.
Nov 19, 8:26 PMSimone (Guest): but I find that freeing, because He is in me – and with me.. and with Him comes ultimate worth and value
Nov 19, 8:27 PM
Simone (Guest): awww Ruth.. you made a blanket for Jesus. That is so sweet. What do you mean “repercussions?” were you punished for that?
Nov 19, 8:28 PM
Simone (Guest): don’t understand the word.. sorry
Nov 19, 8:28 PMSrSusan (Guest): an unintended consequence occurring some time after an event or action, especially an unwelcome one.
ov 19, 8:30 PMSrSusan (Guest): This has been a good chat tonight. This week is Thanksgiving in the USA, I know Canada had it already I will be keeping you all in prayer in thanks for knowing you all
Nov 19, 8:30 PM
SrSusan (Guest): This has been a good chat tonight. This week is Thanksgiving in the USA, I know Canada had it already I will be keeping you all in prayer in thanks for knowing you all
Nov 19, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): oh right.. HAPPY THANKSGIVING to all my American friends here.
Nov 19, 8:30 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Have a blessed week!
Nov 19, 8:30 PM
Simone (Guest): Are you celebrating Thanksgiving in the monastery?
Nov 19, 8:30 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Yes we do
Nov 19, 8:31 PM
Simone (Guest): wonderful. Enjoy!
Nov 19, 8:31 PM
Mary (Guest): Getting close to closing..Just want to say Happy Thanksgiving to all..May the Lord shower you with His joy and peace..have blessed week..keep you all in prayer
Nov 19, 8:31 PM
SrSusan (Guest): Thank you all!
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